Support NeoGAF

[DoomGyver]

Dragona Akehi
Region Free
(Today, 02:11 AM)

 

[patsu]

True, but you don't have to play the game - hence it's 'optional'

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=20502157&postcount=531

 

[Massa]

By the way, Kotaku posted an interesting bit from Sony from when the slim was released (probably old now but whatever):

>> Please be assured that SCE is committed to continue
>> the support for previously sold models that have the
>> “Install Other OS” feature and that this feature will
>> not be disabled in future firmware releases.

http://www.haxnetwork.net/2010/03/otheros-will-not-be-removed-from-phat-ps3s/

The way D_A inserted his own code into Sony's official Firmware isn't illegal because you are able to download it yourself from Sony's website in order to update your system via USB stick, whereas with the 360 DVD firmware hack, there is no legitimate method of obtaining that code.

He created a PSAR dumper so you could collect your own POPS prx files so you could use his POPStation loader in order to pick which verison of POPS to use, they were never provided.

All Wii hardware hacks from Team Twiizers use their own code, reverse engineered from what they've observed on the Wii. No Nintendo code was used, (even if the vehicle of their hacking was a copy of TP, the user must legally obtain it for the hack to work).

The latest 360 hack, the JTAG method is a legit reverse engineered hack. The DVD firmware hack, however, was not.

Ah, I see now. Thanks.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

Help me understand. So, if you can download the software, you can modify it for your own use and spread it around?

The software which is free to download and use as mandated by Sony. It isn't locked up in Fort Knox. It's meant for End Users to use. Yes. That's a significant difference.

When the End User takes that freely given code and alters it, it is in the End User's hands for fair use.

 

[Quasar]

yup, SACD was removed from the Slim as a hardware update, fatties still have it.

I really like SACD , i just wish there was more stuff available

I'm still angry about that. I've had to go back to using my DVD player which annoyingly only passes 5.1 audio through the analog outputs.

 

[WickedLaharl]

I don't want to play on a compromised network, so for the sake of consumer protection, sony needs to everything in it's ability to make sure the ps3 doesn't get hacked.

hahaha oh wow.

 

[intheinbetween]

removing features, serious updates hell yeah!

 

[lupinko]

I don't usually hit refresh on a gaf thread until e3 or tgs or gamescom or whatever. This thread has delivered so far.

 

[DCharlie]

Not all fatties, just 40GB and newer. See the posts above yours.

oops, i forget that the 40/80 GBs even exist to be honest. In my head, only the 20g and 60g fatties ever happened!

thanks for clarifying

 

[kassatsu]

Ok... never used OtherOS, never wanted to. Did they ever even make the RSX usable in otherOS?

Seems pointless to me to begin with.

 

[ReyBrujo]

They're all made up by you isn't it ? ^_^

Of course, but if I see a 3.22 update with some of these modifications, I won't say "I called it!", I promise.

Yes, Google probably deserved to be hacked too. The truth is: there are simple and sophisticated attacks.

You put yourself in danger by using a GET field in the HTTP request to send the query to fill a page, by using Internet Explorer 6 (the worst browser still available in the market), or even by turning your car on without checking if your brakes are working.

There are more effective ways of hacking, and there are surely hundreds of bugs waiting to be exploited in the PS3. But you are usually reactive, you wait until something happens to fix it for the sake of the customer. Imagine if Microsoft patched a 0-day exploit from Internet Explorer 8 by forcing everyone to update to Internet Explorer 9, and making IE8 unavailable to connect to internet anymore. That is overkill.

My point is, Google didn't quit because of a hack, because the hack affected hundreds of other companies as well and they didn't all quit China. It is comparing oranges to apples, in one situation you have a whole political and ethical background (the "Don't do evil" mantra with the censorship imposed by the government) and in the other you have a hacker wanting to explore what his PS3 can do.

 

[racerx]

The software which is free to download and use as mandated by Sony. It isn't locked up in Fort Knox. It's meant for End Users to use. Yes. That's a significant difference.

When the End User takes that freely given code and alters it, it is in the End User's hands for fair use.

There must be something I'm not understanding. According to what you said, I can grab software that is freely downloadable, modify it and give it to others.

That just doesn't seem kosher.

Anyways, back to the dvd firmware argument. I'm pretty sure there are some of those that don't have any microsoft code and MS is needlessly, without proof, banning people.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

There must be something I'm not understanding. According to what you said, I can grab software that is freely downloadable, modify it and give it to others.

That just doesn't seem kosher.

Anyways, back to the dvd firmware argument. I'm pretty sure there are some of those that don't have any microsoft code and MS is needlessly, without proof, banning people.

You can't take code, modify it and give it to others.

You can however, write code that can modify other code, should that End User have a legal right to that code.

As for the console bannings, of course it's wrong for MS to ban people without proof. Anyone suggesting that I say otherwise is dead wrong. There should be an appeal process for something like that, because even one consumer's rights outweigh the right of a corporation's.

 

[Chrange]

There should be an appeal process for something like that, because even one consumer's rights outweigh the right of a corporation's.

Not anymore, in the US at least. They're one amendment away from being able to vote :lol

 

[Dragona Akehi]

Not anymore, in the US at least. They're one amendment away from being able to vote :lol

Corporate personhood has to be one of the most disgusting things of the modern era.

 

[dallow_bg]

I'm still angry about that. I've had to go back to using my DVD player which annoyingly only passes 5.1 audio through the analog outputs.

2.0/5.1 analog > HDMI for SACD playback anyway.
Not needing the video source on was another plus.

Plus in my case, I like the DACs in my SACD player a lot better than my receiver which the PS3 fed.

 

[racerx]

You can't take code, modify it and give it to others.

You can however, write code that can modify other code, should that End User have a legal right to that code.

What?! They both sound the same to me.

As for the console bannings, of course it's wrong for MS to ban people without proof. Anyone suggesting that I say otherwise is dead wrong. There should be an appeal process for something like that, because even one consumer's rights outweigh the right of a corporation's.

Well, I'd have to side with MS here. The Xbox live is their network, they reserve the right to let you in or not. It's probably in their TOS.

 

[tass0]

Does anyone actually care? I had my PS3 for three years and I never used the feature...

 

[patsu]

Of course, but if I see a 3.22 update with some of these modifications, I won't say "I called it!", I promise.

I also won't say "I called it" after every PS3 firmware releases (if these things don't happen). I promise.

My point is, Google didn't quit because of a hack, because the hack affected hundreds of other companies as well and they didn't all quit China. It is comparing oranges to apples, in one situation you have a whole political and ethical background (the "Don't do evil" mantra with the censorship imposed by the government) and in the other you have a hacker wanting to explore what his PS3 can do.

In the first place, the point was a hack *could* impact a company and catch them in awkward situation.

 

[Schrade]

Does anyone actually care? I had my PS3 for three years and I never used the feature...

If you read the thread you'll see people care.

Why bother to ask if you don't read?

 

[Dragona Akehi]

What?! They both sound the same to me.

One is the End User taking the hacked code and applying it themselves to their own hardware/software combo. The other would be someone distributing. It's much like how in most sane countries, passive uploading of bittorrent files are legal because there's no intent to distribute.

Well, I'd have to side with MS here. The Xbox live is their network, they reserve the right to let you in or not. It's probably in their TOS.

EULAs would never stand up in a court of law. Hypothetically, if an XBL user was banned from XBL due to a fault on MS' side, there should be legal repercussions if the user decided/had the resources to sue.

 

[CrushDance]

It's already going down at YD forums. Honestly I'm very surprised that they decided it was best to remove OthersOS installation outright. I have installed Linux many times since the PS3's launch, although it was always neat at first, I got bored of it quickly and would get rid of those systems after a while.

Having said that though; I believe there is some merit to people saying that this will only fan the flames. Sony made it easy and worthwhile for the community to play around and do some seriously cool things. Now all that work over the years is about to become useless and I doubt many will take it laying down. It's a real slap in the face to all those who worked on optimizing the various distros, especially YellowDog/TerraSoft. I feel bad for them.

Edit: /Rage: For crying out loud! They don't even manufacture fats anymore, and many have already switched over to slims for various reasons. It wouldn't hurt to let fat owners keep OtherOS, corrt me if I'm wrong but I honestly think it has less to do with piracy and more so with having to keep taking OtherOS into account when dealing with firmware.

 

[kaitoe]

It's strange.

News of firmware updates on the US Playstation Blog have always been posted by Eric Lempel, and never with a specific date, including the time zone, which is, in this case, JST/Japan Standard Time (which is weird considering most updates have either been for PST or GMT)

Oh well, if it's real, I won't mind -- never used Linux on the PS3 anyways. Kind of sucks for people who do though.

 

[fanboi]

If the update removes the potential risk of piracy, then good.
If the update removes just for the removes sake, then... strange.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

I figure Geohot is closer to getting my blurays to play than Sony is. He's had less than three months, whereas Sony's had over a year by the time this new firmware is out.

if it bothers you that fucking much... how about buying a standalone bd player?
in every thread about ps3 firmware your on this mission to get your two bd's working... sell the ps3, buy a bd player... be happy once and for all...

it needs an apocalyps3 to get sony to do something and not you whining in every god damn thread as nobody else seems to have the problem.

Spoiler

hope you can handle some criticism

----

on topic: i used ubuntu on the ps3, was bad as hell. dont care anymore about it

 

[Dragona Akehi]

if it bothers you that fucking much... how about buying a standalone bd player?
in every thread about ps3 firmware your on this mission to get your two bd's working... sell the ps3, buy a bd player... be happy once and for all...

it needs an apocalyps3 to get sony to do something and not you whining in every god damn thread as nobody else seems to have the problem.

Spoiler

hope you can handle some criticism

----

on topic: i used ubuntu on the ps3, was bad as hell. dont care anymore about it

Not two blurays. More like ten. One is even Region A, just like the PS3.

Why should I spend more money on what should be a redundant device? Especially when the PS3 I bought with the intention of playing blurays previously played these discs just fine before a fuck up on Sony's end? Really?

If I had the money laying about you'd bet your ass I'd buy myself an Oppo BD-83. But I don't.

 

[Azerach]

http://geohotps3.blogspot.com/2010/03/custom-themes.html#disqus_thread

some quality comments here :lol

 

[grandjedi6]

Not anymore, in the US at least. They're one amendment away from being able to vote :lol

Corporations voting? What's the point in that? Corporations already have far more influence over an election than any measly 'vote' every would.

 

[BeeDog]

What a stupid decision by Sony, especially since I recall them promising that the "Other OS" option wouldn't be removed on the older units.

 

[smokeymicpot]

http://geohotps3.blogspot.com/2010/03/custom-themes.html#disqus_thread

some quality comments here :lol

Some of those user names are pretty funny.

 

[KongRudi]

This is a necesarily a bad thing...

Here is an example how few people running unsigned code on a system can easily ruin the game for everyone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTBempZVKQg

See that, flying soldier, and invincible soldier, running twice as fast, and unlimited ammo, playing online in Killzone: Liberation on PSP.

If Custom Firmware came to PS3, I'm pretty sure that this trainer (or similar hacks) would be ported to PS3, for the most popular titles there, just as it is on PSP.

 

[Speevy]

If I had been using this feature since day one, I would certainly be pretty angry at Sony right now.

But although I'm not anti-consumer, I do wish for the PS3 to get through its entire existence without a single Blu-Ray game being burned and played on it.

 

[CrushDance]

http://geohotps3.blogspot.com/2010/03/custom-themes.html#disqus_thread

some quality comments here :lol

:lol

 

[IMACOMPUTA]

It sure does everything.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

Not two blurays. More like ten. One is even Region A, just like the PS3.

Why should I spend more money on what should be a redundant device? Especially when the PS3 I bought with the intention of playing blurays previously played these discs just fine before a fuck up on Sony's end? Really?

If I had the money laying about you'd bet your ass I'd buy myself an Oppo BD-83. But I don't.

well, that is reality right there, i`m not telling you that its okay what happened, but i tell you that you can crab these bds and put them in your garbage bin... sony`s not going to fix it, as they don`t see bd playback on the os3 as faulty... that sucks, but damn sometimes you either vote with your wallet or swallow the crap they serve you...

------

oh and on the other thing you said, that its not illegal to run your own code on ps3...
if you run code, this code need sonys approval, its not illegal by the law (like us law) but by the therms of use (of the ps3)...
its not an open system. you cant choose what to do with it -

 

[Dragona Akehi]

well, that is reality right there, i`m not telling you that its okay what happened, but i tell you that you can crab these bds and put them in your garbage bin... sony`s not going to fix it, as they don`t see bd playback on the os3 as faulty... that sucks, but damn sometimes you either vote with your wallet or swallow the crap they serve you...

That's a pretty bullshit response. What if they decided they shouldn't bother fixing a problem with PSN that only 0.01% of the PS3 population used?

oh and on the other thing you said, that its not illegal to run your own code on ps3...
if you run code, this code need sonys approval, its not illegal by the law (like us law) but by the therms of use (of the ps3)...
its not an open system. you cant choose what to do with it -

EULAs are neither legal nor enforceable. An end user is allowed to use/modify/alter their purchased hardware or software as they see fit.

 

[hateradio]

I remember using and learning how to use Gentoo Linux, that was annoying since there was really no real updates or anything after a while. If they do remove it, I can't say it will be missed, I only watched it to view AVI's that weren't playable by the XMB, so it was my pre-HTPC before my actual HTPC (obviously).

Other than maybe using Firefox, there was no need for it.

***

As for the PS3's Game OS,

I just wish Sony would start updating the XMB itself, I think I mentioned it before in a different thread but the XMB itself has been pretty much this way since 2003, and we haven't had a "version" 2 or 3 at all.

I want a XMB with three dimensions and better handling of objects.

If someone can mod the FW, then go us!

 

[Combichristoffersen]

Oh yeah Sony, I love taking it up the ass from you. Take away my ability to save my game while playing, take away mp3 playback, take away the ability to download and play demos, do whatever you want to me, I'm ready and willing <3

If this is real, fuck this shit. While I didn't use the OtherOs function myself, it's still an assy move of Sony to take it away.

EULAs are neither legal nor enforceable. An end user is allowed to use/modify/alter their purchased hardware or software as they see fit.

Really? I'd always been under the impression that an EULA was a legally binding agreement you had to accept for you to be allowed to use the software/hardware/whatever, and you weren't legally allowed to alter the software/hardware.

 

[JeanJule]

Very amusing thread. Two kinds of people are most interesting: the ones who get upset over loosing a feature they never used,or planned on using but are pissed off because they want to justify paying tons for their Linux-enabled computer entertainment machine years ago. The other is the group who actually used Linux to learn how to code on Cell. Pointless. Why? Who needs to code on Cell:developers.You then are not one of them,let it go. If it is hobby,then don't complain. A $150 pc is faster as a PS3 anyway. Spend time on that.
And about the military?Surely you didn't think that was anything more than Sony PR? That was the whole "the ps2 is so powerful,it can set us up the nuclear bomb" bullshit all over again. Put onto the internet so a bunch of smelly nerds could impress eachother with it.My PS3 has Linux and the USAF! haha

 

[Dragona Akehi]

Really? I'd always been under the impression that an EULA was a legally binding agreement you had to accept for you to be allowed to use the software/hardware/whatever, and you weren't legally allowed to alter the software/hardware.

I'll have to defer to stump and charlequin, but they've shown in other threads exactly how EULAs are ineffective and unenforceable before. I'll see if I can find the exact posts later on if you're still interested by manually searching. Or I'll just bother them till they repost it here.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

That's a pretty bullshit response. What if they decided they shouldn't bother fixing a problem with PSN that only 0.01% of the PS3 population used?

uh.. yes, as this is what all companys do, failure rate of any given product is much higher than 0,01% - they dont care because they know that 2-3% of ps3s are broken when they hit a shop to get sold.



EULAs are neither legal nor enforceable. An end user is allowed to use/modify/alter their purchased hardware or software as they see fit.

uhm..no you cant change a lot of hardware as you see fit, cars/electric meter/etc.
or your online bank account... because you would fuck people over and get in jail

and i can only speak about EU law, here the EULA is legal and enforceable- BUT not all of it or even most of it,(parts that clash with consumer rights are not!) but now if you can find a link that says that modifying hard/software is a consumer right - ill bow down

.
edit: failure rate / software failure is a business model, sony decided long ago the threshold of people having a bad ps3 or problems with it in % - if the % of these people rises above the threshold they start to be concerned
you cant have hardware that works 100% - because gauss said so

 

[Kinan]

Did you tell Hillary to fuck himself for climbing Everest? It was there, too, you know.

Want to play with analogies? Ok.

Imaging a monastery, or, better, a sanctuary on top of the Everest, full of peaceful, spiritual people devoted to studies of Cell God. Its isolated, with access allowed only for people with clean thoughts.

And then one day the brave adventurer Hillary founds a new way to the top, the way that everyone can use now. While many, including some people in the sanctuary, applauds him for his achievement, an international mafia notices that this territory doesn't have any regulations and with newly open easy access to eat is a perfect spot for illegal operations. In the short time the plans for "top of the world" whorehouse on the side of the sanctuary are prepared and first building blocks are delivered.

The God, angered by this sacrilege, removes the top of the Everest altogether, burying the Hillary's way, but also destroying the sanctuary in the process.

I'm sure many people in the sanctuary would also say "Fuck you Hillary".



Fuck you Geohot.

 

[zerokoolpsx]

This is a necesarily a bad thing...

Here is an example how few people running unsigned code on a system can easily ruin the game for everyone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTBempZVKQg

See that, flying soldier, and invincible soldier, running twice as fast, and unlimited ammo, playing online in Killzone: Liberation on PSP.

If Custom Firmware came to PS3, I'm pretty sure that this trainer (or similar hacks) would be ported to PS3, for the most popular titles there, just as it is on PSP.

If someone was blatantly using cheat codes with custom firmware on their ps3 on an online game. They would get banned for sure.

 

[B1gg_Randall]

This is completely fucked up. I'm pissed.

I use OtherOS to boot from a USB stick (Yes, you can boot from a USB stick) to play SDLMAME and other emulators. All with Bluetooth controller support and everything. It also has Firefox on it and stuff.

Fuck Sony for doing this shit. I hope someone hacks the hell out of the system soon.

Bastards.

This is like the fuckers putting the FBI notices and unskippable shit on DVDs and Blu-rays forcing legitimate users to suffer their idiocy.

And you people cheering them on, quit being so callous to those of us who DO use the feature. Fersis, you're making me dislike you >8-|

Wow!!! I could have use emulators and roms on my 40 gig???

 

[sankt-Antonio]

Wow!!! I could have use emulators and roms on my 40 gig???

or you know...you could have use them ...on.... YOUR...PC!!!!!
now i blew your mind....

who ever bought a ps3 to play emulators did it wrong,
PC=>TV=>funtime

 

[Aaron]

Does anyone actually care? I had my PS3 for three years and I never used the feature...

Then Sony should pull all the games you never played off the shelf. Since you didn't bother with them, there's no point for anyone else to play them.

 

[clav]

An update to remove features?

:/

I wanted to buy a PS3 (fat) because it had the Linux functionality built in without the hacks.

 

[B1gg_Randall]

or you know...you could have use them ...on.... YOUR...PC!!!!!
now i blew your mind....

who ever bought a ps3 to play emulators did it wrong,
PC=>TV=>funtime

lol I knew that but to play with them on my Ps3 would blown my mind more :lol

 

[OldJadedGamer]

But although I'm not anti-consumer, I do wish for the PS3 to get through its entire existence without a single Blu-Ray game being burned and played on it.

You can sleep tight tonight then since games will probably run off the HDD when it happens. The PSP has a huge piracy problem yet no one burns UMD's...

 

[tass0]

Then Sony should pull all the games you never played off the shelf. Since you didn't bother with them, there's no point for anyone else to play them.

Linux on PS3 is slow and near useless, nobody uses it and those who do stop using it after a day.

That's a fact.