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[patsu]

Has that ever happened? If so, then I guess that is a good reason to disable it.

They won't advertise on-going attempts. By the time we hear it, it's already too late.

 

[Hex]

Waits to see all of the people gasping and crying unfair who have never once loaded linux on their PS3
Oh, as usual I am late to the party.

 

[jhenedo]

I guess it's worth repeating, as some people obviously didn't get the memo yet: The PS3 security hole is a problem with the hardware itself. Removing Other OS changes absolutely nothing when it comes to piracy. The only thing Sony manages to do by removing that particular feature is to screw legit customers. There's no way to spin this.

Oh, thank you educated man. Let's hope sony engineers look on the mighty neogaf boards and see this post. Then THEY will realize there efforts are futile and removing the OS wont help in curbing piracy on a CONSOLE THEY MANUFACTURED.

 

[soldat7]

Waits to see all of the people gasping and crying unfair who have never once loaded linux on their PS3
Oh, as usual I am late to the party.

I think many of the people complaining had legitimate uses for the feature. I don't see any reason to claim otherwise.

 

[-PXG-]

Which is why it seems pretty obvious that it's being done for a reason, most likely to plug a security hole (which they're naturally not going to advertise). Otherwise why would they spend the man-hours coding a patch to remove it? Do you think they just decided to do this for the hell of it?

I know jack shit about programming or software engineering. Maybe the the code that boots up the OtherOS interfered with some vital shit with the GameOS. I don't know. Again, if there is some sort of PSN security risk with the OtherOS, then eliminating it is justified. Any other reason is stupid. Piracy isn't a factor since you can't pirate PS3 games.

 

[Somnid]

You...really aren't that bright, are you?

Let me guess, you wanted to say something but the words weren't coming so you just went for the insult. Classy.

 

[ReyBrujo]

That's before the geohot incident though. Plans can change in the face of threats.

Every hardware maker knows its hardware can be hacked if the hacker has physical access to the machine. The exploit is a known one, and Sony surely knew it could happen (just like Intel, IBM and every other hardware maker knows it can be done). But it is so hard to get it right, that it takes months to use correctly. In the PS3 case, it took years. And it is not an exploit that anyone can do, you need the knowledge and the patience to do it.

It is like Renault withdrawing a full batch of cars because someone discovered that if someone puts water inside your gasoline tank your car will break. That is the thing I want to point out, it is something so excessively, like killing an ant with a bullet.

The problem is PSN. A hacked system can destablize the service, which may affect me as an end user too. It's not a pretty solution, but I much prefer them to keep those uncertainty out of PSN. If they end up spending resources to play this cat-n-mouse security game, then requests has to be secured (which translate to slowness to all users). e.g., the dynamic themes are unsigned today, and geohot is said to exploit it.

Does a hacked computer destabilize internet? Do hacked PSP destabilize PSN? This is bullshit. You isolate the broken node and eliminate it, you don't power internet off and then on and start checking one after the other who is the hacked computer. Maybe it is because it is late here, but I have a half-time job as a security advisor and, if you built up your network from scratch and can't determine which unit is messing your network, you should be fired.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Piracy isn't a factor since you can't pirate PS3 games.

-PXG-
-liar-
(Today, 10:07 PM)

Wrong. People have already ripped and burned PS3 games. It's pointless though since the PS3 won't run unsigned code. You can pirate the games, but you can't play them yet.

 

[Hex]

I think many of the people complaining had legitimate uses for the feature. I don't see any reason to claim otherwise.

Many do have legitimate reasons.
Most will not.
I am trying to remember when the main PS3 Linux thread was last bumped, but I can not search.
People always said it was useless and the gpu restriction was the thing most people pointed to as why it was no real thing.
I know there were people using it, Yellowdog was actually fun to tinker around with and I really wanted to start dabbling with ubnatu but I got wrapped up in other things.
When I upgraded my hdd last, I never bothered to even reinstall because it was never used.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

Let me guess, you wanted to say something but the words weren't coming so you just went for the insult. Classy.

Let me spell it out for you: without consumers there's no reason for corporations. Corporations only look out for the bottom line, not what's in a consumer's best interest.

So if you, as a consumer, are going to take a side, don't let it be the one that controls what you are able to do with your purchased products.

Many do have legitimate reasons.
Most will not.
I am trying to remember when the main PS3 Linux thread was last bumped, but I can not search.
People always said it was useless and the gpu restriction was the thing most people pointed to as why it was no real thing.
I know there were people using it, Yellowdog was actually fun to tinker around with and I really wanted to start dabbling with ubnatu but I got wrapped up in other things.
When I upgraded my hdd last, I never bothered to even reinstall because it was never used.

Mind clarifying?

 

[Azerach]

This is splitting hairs to an extreme. "Security Issues" isn't mislabeling anything, PS3 security has been compromised, the extent of which is not currently known. Maybe you just didn't understand? They aren't talking about viruses.

Also, people gave the same bullshit when Wii was first cracked. They wondered why Nintendo was so keen on trying to fix security exploits used only for homebrew until USB loaders showed up and the rest was history. OtherOS was Sony's olive branch to the homebrew community, and people just couldn't stop there, so now we have nothing.

Yeah, and people put the blame on Sony which is a bit short sighted. Blind rage in this thread is so strong :lol

 

[patsu]

Every hardware maker knows its hardware can be hacked if the hacker has physical access to the machine. The exploit is a known one, and Sony surely knew it could happen (just like Intel, IBM and every other hardware maker knows it can be done). But it is so hard to get it right, that it takes months to use correctly. In the PS3 case, it took years. And it is not an exploit that anyone can do, you need the knowledge and the patience to do it.

It is like Renault withdrawing a full batch of cars because someone discovered that if someone puts water inside your gasoline tank your car will break. That is the thing I want to point out, it is something so excessively, like killing an ant with a bullet.


Does a hacked computer destabilize internet? Do hacked PSP destabilize PSN? This is bullshit. You isolate the broken node and eliminate it, you don't power internet off and then on and start checking one after the other who is the hacked computer. Maybe it is because it is late here, but I have a half-time job as a security advisor and, if you built up your network from scratch and can't determine which unit is messing your network, you should be fired.

And ? Google pulled out of China partly because of a severe hack. Even though they knew computers could be compromised, I doubt they knew it would struck them so deep this time.

Does a hacked computer destablize Internet ? Depends on what services got hacked and how the services are defined. Some virii in the old days certainly brought down systems over Internet.

 

[-PXG-]

-PXG-
-liar-
(Today, 10:07 PM)

Wrong. People have already ripped and burned PS3 games. It's pointless though since the PS3 won't run unsigned code. You can pirate the games, but you can't play them yet.

I know that But what's the point of ripping and burning them if you can't play them? That's like growing your own weed, but not smoking or selling it. You can't really call that piracy. That's idiocy :lol

 

[Unknown Soldier]

It is like Renault withdrawing a full batch of cars because someone discovered that if someone puts water inside your gasoline tank your car will break. That is the thing I want to point out, it is something so excessively, like killing an ant with a bullet.

This is Sony we're talking about. Sony would use a nuclear missile to kill an ant if that's what they thought it took. They absolutely would take off and nuke the site from orbit, because it's the only way to be sure. :lol

 

[Brashnir]

With rampant piracy, there are no one for those corporations to sell their games to


case in point: psp.

DS, Wii, 360, PS1 and PS2 are/were all also widely pirated and still sell/sold assloads of software.

PSP has issues other than piracy to blame for its software sales problems. Such a huge portion of its library is comprised of sloppy, broke-ass PS2 ports that a lot of people get turned off and stop buying games for it when they can buy much better games for other systems.

I know some quality software has been released for PSP, but I was burned so bad in the post-launch period that I turned mine into a portable NES and never looked back.

 

[blu]

*gold clap*

way to go, sony. way to go. one final push and you'll surpass last-gen's nintendo level of uncoolness with their removal of the DAV port from the cube. you're really one tiny step away from there.

 

[coopolon]

It shocks me how many people in this thread take joy at seeing their fellow consumers fucked over.

It scares me how brazen Sony is being taking away features customers paid for.

It saddens me that video games, at least on the console side, have become so anti-consumer, that I just feel dirty continuing to support them with my money.

I used OtherOS all the time, but the PS3 is also my primary BluRay player. Not really sure what I am going to do.

 

[Thaedolus]

After the PSP fiasco, Sony has every right to keep piracy at bay by any means necessary. If this means that Kevin Butler himself has to be present when we play our PS3s, then so be it.

This kind of logic is totally fucked. "Any means necessary?" Seriously? Fuck this kind of thinking. I do care about companies having their property stolen because if it gets out of hand it affects me, but by and large it's their problem, not mine. I already pay 60 dollars for games, I already buy high priced hardware, I support the developers I like with my hard earned cash, why should I let a company make me bend over and take it whenever they deem it to be necessary as well?

As far as I'm concerned, this has no affect on me and my Slim PS3. But I'm absolutely against it in principle, and if I had a fat PS3 and used Linux...yeah, I'd be pissed. I just don't get anyone defending this. I understand Sony's reasoning, but I don't agree with it and I really don't think the ends justify the means here.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

With rampant piracy, there are no one for those corporations to sell their games to


case in point: psp.

That's hardly a consumer's problem, and PSP's failure has less to do with piracy than you think. DS is easier to pirate and yet software is selling through the roof. Please explain.

 

[racerx]

It shocks me how many people in this thread take joy at seeing their fellow consumers fucked over.

It scares me how brazen Sony is being taking away features customers paid for.

It saddens me that video games, at least on the console side, have become so anti-consumer, that I just feel dirty continuing to support them with my money.

I used OtherOS all the time, but the PS3 is also my primary BluRay player. Not really sure what I am going to do.

oh please, get over it. MS bans people from xbox live. Sony removes features. does it suck for the consumer? for a small percentage of them, yes, but its good for majority.

 

[jhenedo]

This kind of logic is totally fucked. "Any means necessary?" Seriously? Fuck this kind of thinking. I do care about companies having their property stolen because if it gets out of hand it affects me, but by and large it's their problem, not mine. I already pay 60 dollars for games, I already buy high priced hardware, I support the developers I like with my hard earned cash, why should I let a company make me bend over and take it whenever they deem it to be necessary as well?

As far as I'm concerned, this has no affect on me and my Slim PS3. But I'm absolutely against it in principle, and if I had a fat PS3 and used Linux...yeah, I'd be pissed. I just don't get anyone defending this. I understand Sony's reasoning, but I don't agree with it and I really don't think the ends justify the means here.

I can gaurantee this board that 95% of ps3 users wont even know this happened.Heck, maybe a same amount does not know it can be used for games.........lol. Js kidding js kidding. But you get my point people.

 

[Hex]

I agree with Dragona fully, nobody should be able to tell you how to use something that you bought.
But why are more people not pissed off at those who are out there constantly working to crack systems and in fact many on this board though they would never post it eagerly follow different groups progress hoping for the "break" with baited breath whether it be for the next PSP firmware fix, PS3 finally being hacked, Dsi compatibility with many hacks or whatever.

 

[racerx]

That's hardly a consumer's problem, and PSP's failure has less to do with piracy than you think. DS is easier to pirate and yet software is selling through the roof. Please explain.

really? I thought the DS required some hardware to do piracy. With PSPs, you just need to download some custom firmware. No?

 

[-PXG-]

It shocks me how many people in this thread take joy at seeing their fellow consumers fucked over.

It scares me how brazen Sony is being taking away features customers paid for.

It saddens me that video games, at least on the console side, have become so anti-consumer, that I just feel dirty continuing to support them with my money.

I used OtherOS all the time, but the PS3 is also my primary BluRay player. Not really sure what I am going to do.

Mhmmm. I'm convinced that most people on GAF are rapidly folding their hands, pulling their mustaches and have dollar signs in their eyes. I mean, there is just no way anyone can be this sympathetic towards a multi-billion dollar corporation, and not have and kind of attachment, connection or affiliation. It's a God damned conspiracy mang. :lol

 

[Dragona Akehi]

oh please, get over it. MS bans people from xbox live. Sony removes features. does it suck for the consumer? for a small percentage of them, yes, but its good for majority.

Please explain to me how removing a feature is good for the majority of the consumers who purchased the product.

really? I thought the DS required some hardware to do piracy. With PSPs, you just need to download some custom firmware. No?

With PSP firmware you have a chance of bricking your unit. With DS you pay 20$ to get a flash card and just download every game without any modification to your system or risk. Oh and it's insanely easy to buy a flashcard for DS.

 

[obonicus]

Saying piracy is the reason why Sony is taking away the OtherOS is flat out retarded.

As Fafalada posted, there's word from Sony devs that the main reason for no Linux in the slims is the cost associated with maintaining it. That's probably the primary motivator for this new firmware update -- the geohot thing is probably a good, timely excuse.

 

[lupinko]

really? I thought the DS required some hardware to do piracy. With PSPs, you just need to download some custom firmware. No?

DS requires you to acquire a flash card + sd card, whereas the PSP is just a software hack.

So yes you are correct, the best kind of correct.

 

[Fox Mulder]

I agree with Dragona fully, nobody should be able to tell you how to use something that you bought.
But why are more people not pissed off at those who are out there constantly working to crack systems and in fact many on this board though they would never post it eagerly follow different groups progress hoping for the "break" with baited breath whether it be for the next PSP firmware fix, PS3 finally being hacked, Dsi compatibility with many hacks or whatever.

because not all hacks are used for piracy...

 

[Hex]

really? I thought the DS required some hardware to do piracy. With PSPs, you just need to download some custom firmware. No?

PSP requires constantly upgrading to match the new firmware that Sony puts out, the DS from what I understand once you have the card or whatever you are set.

 

[Schrade]

This is completely fucked up. I'm pissed.

I use OtherOS to boot from a USB stick (Yes, you can boot from a USB stick) to play SDLMAME and other emulators. All with Bluetooth controller support and everything. It also has Firefox on it and stuff.

Fuck Sony for doing this shit. I hope someone hacks the hell out of the system soon.

Bastards.

This is like the fuckers putting the FBI notices and unskippable shit on DVDs and Blu-rays forcing legitimate users to suffer their idiocy.

And you people cheering them on, quit being so callous to those of us who DO use the feature. Fersis, you're making me dislike you >8-|

 

[patsu]

I agree with Dragona fully, nobody should be able to tell you how to use something that you bought.

I agree. In this case, the course of action is either you accept the change, or you sell the system. I don't think Sony is stupid or happy about the decision. It hurts them too. The fact that they chose this route may tell us something.

Please explain to me how removing a feature is good for the majority of the consumers who purchased the product.

That statement is too general to discuss anything constructively.

 

[jhenedo]

really? I thought the DS required some hardware to do piracy. With PSPs, you just need to download some custom firmware. No?

DS selling software? easy. More casual players buy nintendo DS's than PSPs.

Casual players=Less tech know how=Succesfull software

PSP=More hardcore=More tech know how=Less succesful software.
There.

 

[Truespeed]

I just had to do it.

 

[Alex]

Seems like poor form. It doesn't effect me on a personal level, but it effects me in that I am pretty damn strongly against platforms LOSING functionality over the course of a generation.

Isn't the end of the world, but it is another silly mismanagement on the part of Sony.

With rampant piracy, there are no one for those corporations to sell their games to

No one really talks about it lately, but I still really don't think that the piracy on the PSP is what burned it in the West.

I'm not saying it didn't hurt it some or even quite a bit, it hurts everything. However, if it was the main killer demise, the DS and Wii would both be stinging as well as they're both easier to mod up than a PSP.

The DS is effortless to get a flash cart up and running on, especially.

I think it was more brand mismanagement. Too much multimedia, too many slimmed down console games with a very specific appeal. When new devices and new consoles come out, that sort of evaporates with the climate of these machines in the US. Especially when Sony relies so much on their third party focus for this type of outing, with their first party titles being very narrow in who they aim towards.

Now you're left with a small haven for niche games like strategy titles, dungeon hacks, RPGs, etc. Not the kind of things with bulk appeal to either younger players or core console players. Especially when Nintendo has quite a lot of that as well, and they have Nintendo's juggernaut "everyone" franchises to boot.

That's just my conjecture anyway, I just wanted to make that comment for awhile. I love the machine, my favorite of the current batch, but I always thought just pointing the finger and screaming piracy gave Sony a lil too much credit for how they went about it.

 

[davepoobond]

who really even used this? i sure as hell didnt.

 

[jett]

I can't wait until someone finds an exploit involving a "The Dark Knight" bluray disc. The number of exploding heads will be legendary.

what?

Jett would have to be put on suicide watch?

what?

 

[-PXG-]

As Fafalada posted, there's word from Sony devs that the main reason for no Linux in the slims is the cost associated with maintaining it. That's probably the primary motivator for this new firmware update -- the geohot thing is probably a good, timely excuse.

In that case, perhaps it's some kind of "interference", as I mentioned earlier. If that is the case, then I guess it has to go. If it makes working and creating updates easier and more efficient, then I guess I'm fine with it.

 

[Schrade]

DS selling software? easy. More casual players buy nintendo DS's than PSPs.

Casual players=Less tech know how=Succesfull software

PSP=More hardcore=More tech know how=Less succesful software.
There.

PSP's software failures are more related to cost per game in my opinion.

The extremely high price of games leads to people seeking other means to acquire them. And fuck it all if they would just lower the prices of games and released all of them on the PSN with lower prices then it'd be a different situation I'm sure.

I just had to do it.

[IMG ]http://i40.tinypic.com/10f2bso.gif[/IMG]

You failed. It's OtherOS.

 

[expy]

Please explain to me how removing a feature is good for the majority of the consumers who purchased the product.

It is disappointing that they are removing the feature, and yes, the majority of PS3 users are on "phats", but realistically, there is but a minor proportion of that userbase that actually uses that specific feature.

Personally, I had used it for a little while, and still have a partition for it on my new drive, but I don't really care that I'm losing that feature. I could see why they're doing it, and if the same thing were happening to me (or my company) I would probably react the same way.

It sucks, yes.

 

[racerx]

Please explain to me how removing a feature is good for the majority of the consumers who purchased the product.

Personally, I'm annoyed. I want the Other OS to be there. But I'm pretty sure that the removal of the Other OS is because of geohot's hack. If the Other OS remains, it's quite possible that with geohot's hack, hackers could compromise the ps3 and psn further. Some hackers, not all, could compromise trophies, maybe some would send out message bombs, maybe some could have cheats - like wall hacks, etc...

I don't want to play on a compromised network, so for the sake of consumer protection, sony needs to everything in it's ability to make sure the ps3 doesn't get hacked.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

And you people cheering them on, quit being so callous to those of us who DO use the feature.

This is GAF remember - you're either with one side or against it.

 

[ReyBrujo]

And ? Google pulled out of China partly because of a severe hack. Even though they knew computers could be compromised, I doubt they knew it would struck them so deep this time.

They didn't quit because of a hack. They have always struggled with the censorship, and the attack (which was targeted at determined accounts from some freedom-of-speech supporters) just made them realize they could not keep themselves as a bastion of freedom when the law (and the anti-law) are against you.

Also, they were using IE6, for God's sake. They knew their computers could be compromised. If you f*ck without condoms you will eventually catch something.

Does a hacked computer destablize Internet ? Depends on what services got hacked and how the services are defined. Some virii in the old days certainly brought down systems over Internet.

Sure, back in the old days. But I think we have advanced 30 or 40 years since Arpanet and BBS. Even the strongest worms or the massive zombie farms can't kill internet. Think it this way: there is no central government for internet, so if your computer is taken by a hacker and used to send spam, nobody can force you to shut it down. However, PSN has a central body (Sony or whatever branch they use for it) and if your PS3 is found to be hacked, they can just shut it down (like Microsoft). I think it is overkill. What is the worse that can happen if they don't deactive PS support? That someone will mess with his trophies and appear as having platinum ones everywhere? That someone will shoot you through walls?

Scarasm time:

They could charge PSN $100 per month too. I am sure nobody will pay that much to just hack into the network and change a wallpaper into some random PS3. Overkill, but will work too.

They could also cut all connections coming from Nigeria, we know only scammers live there. And from China, the government is surely trying to steal Sony's ideas. And from South America, we know piracy is huge there. And from Japan, there are so few PS3 sold there anyways the owners won't notice anything different.

Spoiler

Sarcasm due flu, late hour and the stupidity of Sony

 

[Dragona Akehi]

Personally, I'm annoyed. I want the Other OS to be there. But I'm pretty sure that the removal of the Other OS is because of geohot's hack. If the Other OS remains, it's quite possible that with geohot's hack, hackers could compromise the ps3 and psn further. Some hackers, not all, could compromise trophies, maybe some would send out message bombs, maybe some could have cheats - like wall hacks, etc...

I don't want to play on a compromised network, so for the sake of consumer protection, sony needs to everything in it's ability to make sure the ps3 doesn't get hacked.

Hacks like that would be at a game's base level and unlikely, and as for trophies, who really gives a flying fuck if someone else "cheats"? After all, it isn't like Sony is giving free things away for having trophies.

 

[Fox Mulder]

DS selling software? easy. More casual players buy nintendo DS's than PSPs.

Casual players=Less tech know how=Succesfull software

PSP=More hardcore=More tech know how=Less succesful software.
There.

pretty much a broad generalization, but even if you run with it, the level of technical know how needed to pirate on the DS is pretty low as well. You don't have to keep up with firmware updates or even do anything other than buy a magical flash card and use a very standard microSD card.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

pretty much a broad generalization, but even if you run with it, the level of technical know how needed to pirate on the DS is pretty low as well. You don't have to keep up with firmware updates or even do anything other than buy a magical flash card and use a very standard microSD card.

Or go to the guy who sells the cards and ask "how do I get the free games from the internet on this for my kids?"

 

[expy]

Hacks like that would be at a game's base level and unlikely, and as for trophies, who really gives a flying fuck if someone else "cheats"? After all, it isn't like Sony is giving free things away for having trophies.

Wasn't that basically the reason why Microsoft banned Millions of 360s from the network (and from using non-network features)?

 

[inner-G]

Hacks like that would be at a game's base level and unlikely, and as for trophies, who really gives a flying fuck if someone else "cheats".

Believe it or not, a lot of people.

In PS3's case, I'd say fair trophies are a hell of a lot more important to consumers than running gimped linux.

 

[Somnid]

Let me spell it out for you: without consumers there's no reason for corporations. Corporations only look out for the bottom line, not what's in a consumer's best interest.

So if you, as a consumer, are going to take a side, don't let it be the one that controls what you are able to do with your purchased products.

Without those corporations I can't buy anything, there are no products. It's not a one-way street. I rather like video games, so I can either say "fuck it" which hurts me and likely a lot more than it hurts them, or I can concede some things for continued service. A healthy market filled with multiple corporations benefits me as a consumer, and without Sony it's not like there would be first-party supported console Linux anyway.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

Wasn't that basically the reason why Microsoft banned Millions of 360s from the network (and from using non-network features)?

No, that was for playing pirated software on their machines online.

Without those corporations I can't buy anything, there are no products. It's not a one-way street. I rather like video games, so I can either say "fuck it" which hurts me and likely a lot more than it hurts them, or I can concede some things for continued service. A healthy market filled with multiple corporations benefits me as a consumer, and without Sony it's not like there would be first-party supported console Linux anyway.

Considering how many "fuck yous" corporations have given consumers via entities like the RIAA, MPAA and the creation of the DMCA, they clearly aren't having many troubles in comparison to the state of consumer rights, thanks.

 

[ULTROS!]

Does the Slim have Linux support?

I really don't use the Other OS support so...