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[The artful mincer]

Because of a huge list of reasons that draw people to PC gaming?

That's fine but then the argument is no longer about cost.

If none of that interests you that's fine, you don't have a preference for PC gaming, nothing wrong with sticking with a console. My argument is simply that the difference in cost between cheap PC gaming and console gaming isn't that large.

300 dollars is a big difference dude even if you're not struggling financially. There's reason why Sony and MS are so careful when pricing these things.

 

[rodrigolfp]

I think it's perfectly reasonable to want something that comes out of one box in one piece.

It is. Then pay more.

 

[Diddy X]

Atleast that can of whopping guy can be happy about something.

 

[Kabelly]

No wonder everyone thinks gamers are losers/bottom of the social hierarchy.

and they would be right.

 

[Three]

To afford $599 you need two jobs but $800-900 you just put aside $50 every now and again. Don't even mention saving an extra $10 for a game either, that's impossible.

Surely people understand other people don't like higher costs. Doesn't mean they can't afford it.

 

[Venom Snake]

Why do you seem to think it's only about the money? It is also about not preferring to play on a pc.

As long as we ourselves prioritize the importance of factors that determine our choices, this discussion will never reach a satisfactory conclusion.

Any reason is good if you end up owning something that meets your expectations. There is no reason however to forcefully rationalize your own decisions as a defensive reflex against people who have the right and the will to constantly shit on the platform you own. It won't change their mind or your perception as a buyer/owner.

 

[mckmas8808]

Because of a huge list of reasons that draw people to PC gaming? If none of that interests you that's fine, you don't have a preference for PC gaming, nothing wrong with sticking with a console. My argument is simply that the difference in cost between cheap PC gaming and console gaming isn't that large.

I think you are still missing the point. The PC that you can build for an extra $300 isn't worth having a PC for. That's the point.

 

[Zathalus]

I think you are still missing the point. The PC that you can build for an extra $300 isn't worth having a PC for. That's the point.

Isn't worth it for some, it's worth it for others. The cost point is simply that for the majority the difference between $500 and $600 isn't really worth worrying about. Preference of platform holds way more sway compared to a mere $100.

 

[mckmas8808]

Isn't worth it for some, it's worth it for others. The cost point is simply that for the majority the difference between $500 and $600 isn't really worth worrying about. Preference of platform holds way more sway compared to a mere $100.

Your last sentence is 100% correct. So we agree there. But the point is people who have a preference for playing games on a PC are not trying to buy a PC with PlayStation 5 performance levels.

Most people buying a PC in 2024 will like their PC to be stronger than a PlayStation 5, which means you will be spending at least $1,000.

 

[Skifi28]

Just because you can buy a PC with console-like performance, doesn't mean you should. It's just a recipe for disaster in the not-so-long run. Experienced PC builders that know what they're getting will be fine, but seeing the parts recommended in arguments Vs consoles to what are potentially new PC gamers always makes me cringe. They're just being set up for a terrible experience if they plan on getting new and demanding games.

 

[Zathalus]

Your last sentence is 100% correct. So we agree there. But the point is people who have a preference for playing games on a PC are not trying to buy a PC with PlayStation 5 performance levels.

Most people buying a PC in 2024 will like their PC to be stronger than a PlayStation 5, which means you will be spending at least $1,000.

Steam stats disagree. People with a PC equal to or more powerful then a PS5 only make up around 38% of all PC players. If somebody wants to buy a PC in 2024 then they can buy anything from something around $600 to over $4k if they want to match or beat the consoles performance, or they might just be looking for something to play League or DOTA and are fine with buying a $300 PC with a 1650.

Just because you can buy a PC with console-like performance, doesn't mean you should. It's just a recipe for disaster in the not-so-long run. Experienced PC builders that know what they're getting will be fine, but seeing the parts recommended in arguments Vs consoles to what are potentially new PC gamers always makes me cringe. They're just being set up for a terrible experience if they plan on getting new and demanding games.

A 5500/5600 CPU with a 6650XT/7600/3060/4060 GPU will give you a perfectly fine experience at 1080p. Just don't buy a no name PSU and decent motherboard and the average gamer will be fine.

 

[The artful mincer]

Isn't worth it for some, it's worth it for others. The cost point is simply that for the majority the difference between $500 and $600 isn't really worth worrying about. Preference of platform holds way more sway compared to a mere $100.

I don't think it does. Sony lost the ps3 generation because of price.

Saving money is saving money at the end of the day. It's not the only reason but likely one of main reasons for alot of people.

 

[Skifi28]

A 5500/5600 CPU with a 6650XT/7600/3060/4060 GPU will give you a perfectly fine experience at 1080p. Just don't buy a no name PSU and decent motherboard and the average gamer will be fine.

8gb of vram is already an issue, imagine building a PC like that now and having to live with it for the next 3-4 years. Same for 1080p, imagine being stuck with that resolution until you upgrade your GPU in 3-4 years. Monitor aside, recommending 8gb GPUs should be illegal unless someone just plans on playing eSports games.

These low-cost builds age terribly and you either have to put up with tons of issues or upgrade very soon wasting money.

 

[Zathalus]

8gb of vram is already an issue, imagine building a PC like that now and having to live with it for the next 3-4 years. Same for 1080p, imagine being stuck with that resolution until you upgrade your GPU in 3-4 years. Monitor aside, recommending 8gb GPUs should be illegal unless someone just plans of playing eSports games.

These low-cost builds age terribly and you either have to put up with tons of issues or upgrade very soon.

Then use a 3060 or 7600 XT. VRAM is not a problem with either of those cards. As for being stuck with 1080p, almost 60% of gamers still use that on PC. But either of those cards can work at 1440p if you depend on upscaling and choose reasonable game settings.

 

[Skifi28]

Then use a 3060 or 7600 XT. VRAM is not a problem with either of those cards. As for being stuck with 1080p, almost 60% of gamers still use that on PC. But either of those cards can work at 1440p if you depend on upscaling and choose reasonable game settings.

A 3060 is very old missing dlss3 and on AMD you have the Vram but lose everything else. Just save more money and grab something like a 4070 instead of trying to choose which is the least terrible cheap gpu. Again, remember that you'll have to live with your decision for many years where unlike consoles, developers might not necessarily bother making sure it works well enough with your specs. Cheap builds are bad, especially for new PC gamers that don't know what they're in for.

 

[Zathalus]

A 3060 is very old missing dlss3 and on AMD you have the Vram but lose everything else. Just save more money and grab something like a 4070 instead of trying to choose which is the least terrible cheap gpu. Again, remember that you'll have to live with your decision for many years where unlike consoles, developers might not necessarily bother making sure it works well enough with your specs. Cheap builds are bad, especially for new PC gamers that don't know what they're in for.

A friend of mine built himself a 5600/3060 PC for his kid last year and it runs everything fine at 1080p. Even Black Myth can hold 60fps with DLSS quality and High/Medium settings. He doesn't have to live with anything either because if the PC needs more performance he can probably slot in a 5800X3D and 5060 two years from now, because its a PC and upgradability is one of the perks. Not everyone needs the cutting edge for gaming.

Even if a 3060 just has performance that is too low these days (which I doubt), for a mere $30 price difference you can get a 6750XT that offers a 40% jump in performance. You can't tell me a 6750XT isn't fast enough to game on.

 

[Duchess]

You know, the past several messages are all you'd need in order to convince someone to just buy a console, instead of a PC ...

 

[Skifi28]

A friend of mine built himself a 5600/3060 PC for his kid last year and it runs everything fine at 1080p. Even Black Myth can hold 60fps with DLSS quality and High/Medium settings. He doesn't have to live with anything either because if the PC needs more performance he can probably slot in a 5800X3D and 5060 two years from now, because its a PC and upgradability is one of the perks. Not everyone needs the cutting edge for gaming.

You're kind of proving my point. Why buy a 5600 now to upgrade to a 58003d later when you can just get the 58003d now and save money and trouble? Or even better a more recent equivalent CPU that isn't already a dead upgrade path. I'm not talking about cutting edge here, just something not terrible like most "entry" level GPUs these days.

Edit: Argument aside,a 5600 is fine as far as CPUs go, at least for now, but I've seen people recommending a 3600 to match console prices. Just no.

Even if a 3060 just has performance that is too low these days (which I doubt), for a mere $30 price difference you can get a 6750XT that offers a 40% jump in performance. You can't tell me a 6750XT isn't fast enough to game on.

These old cards are not always easy to find at a good price, or at all. While the raster performance is still fine, you have little to no RT performance to speak of and you'll have to live with FSR2 for years to come. If someone bought it at release it'd be fine, but I would never recommend one in 2024. Just another part you'll have to swap very soon.

 

[Felessan]

That is a 'them" problem, not a "PC" problem.

Being a platform for nerds IS a PC problem, not people problem.
You either overpay or should be nerd - it heavily limits PC expansion into mass market, which is just normal people - they shy away from overcomplicated tech stuff and they are price sensitive.

 

[rodrigolfp]

overcomplicated tech

 

[StereoVsn]

Literally the worst part of Digital Foundry. They need to drop him.

Thing is Alex is fairly professional when he is doing PC reviews or optimizations. But it's like he can't help himself and has to put his foot into his mouth.

 

[StereoVsn]

Being a platform for nerds IS a PC problem, not people problem.
You either overpay or should be nerd - it heavily limits PC expansion into mass market, which is just normal people - they shy away from overcomplicated tech stuff and they are price sensitive.

One thing to remember though about Asia is that PC cafes for gaming are still popular, especially in Korea and China.

Japanese PC cafe industry is a tad … different, lol.

Edit: Forgot to add that this lowers barrier to entree for average users.

 

[Kumomeme]

 

[Darkness_Arises]

It's not nonsensical? Why would I spend 300 dollars extra for something the same power and specs as the ps5?

Even if I could easily afford the extra 300 dollars why would I?

One of the biggest issues with PC that PC evangelist seldom bring up is the lack of a reliable game suspend-resume operation. Unlike Xbox, PS and Nintendo, where game suspend-resume are part of the certification, no PC games are tested for this. Some games just break when you Alt-tab. There is no PS/X/Home button that magically brings out of the game, while reliably storing the current game state. Steam Deck is better at this but even that has issues with sleep resume in some games. Also, in the UK the difference in power consumption should also be a factor, in case you want to go for a PC setup.
Another feature that I miss is push PS/Home button on controller to wake up console. I dunno about the Xbox controller but my Dualsense definitely does not wake up the Steam Deck.

 

[Zathalus]

You're kind of proving my point. Why buy a 5600 now to upgrade to a 58003d later when you can just get the 58003d now and save money and trouble? Or even better a more recent equivalent CPU that isn't already a dead upgrade path. I'm not talking about cutting edge here, just something not terrible like most "entry" level GPUs these days.

Edit: Argument aside,a 5600 is fine as far as CPUs go, at least for now, but I've seen people recommending a 3600 to match console prices. Just no.



These old cards are not always easy to find at a good price, or at all. While the raster performance is still fine, you have little to no RT performance to speak of and you'll have to live with FSR2 for years to come. If someone bought it at release it'd be fine, but I would never recommend one in 2024. Just another part you'll have to swap very soon.

The point of buying cheaper now and upgrading later is useful if you have a limited budget upfront, or if you don't know if you will actually be needing the higher performance later. As for the 6750XT, RT performance at that level is really not needed, and you are not limited to FSR as XeSS exists.

Being a platform for nerds IS a PC problem, not people problem.
You either overpay or should be nerd - it heavily limits PC expansion into mass market, which is just normal people - they shy away from overcomplicated tech stuff and they are price sensitive.

Expansion into mass market? Steam alone has 150+ million active monthly accounts. PC gaming really doesn't have any problems on that front.

 

[Felessan]

Expansion into mass market? Steam alone has 150+ million active monthly accounts. PC gaming really doesn't have any problems on that front.

Number of "study notebook players of 3$ indies" are commendable, thats for sure.
But its like comparing AAA gaming to gaas - gaas (also a huge part of PC gaming growth) - simply wins.

 

[Pedro Motta]

I knew this would de-rail this thread. Always the same culprits.

 

[Zathalus]

Number of "study notebook players of 3$ indies" are commendable, thats for sure.
But its like comparing AAA gaming to gaas - gaas (also a huge part of PC gaming growth) - simply wins.

Or you can look at the staggering numbers Elden Ring, Hogwarts Legacy, Cyberpunk 2077, Baldurs Gate 3, and Black Myth have enjoyed. Or the Steam Survey where approximately 38% of Steam gamers have a PC equal to or more powerful then a PS5. Even publishers like Capcom and Activision have stated most of their revenue comes from PC.

 

[Felessan]

Or you can look at the staggering numbers Elden Ring, Hogwarts Legacy, Cyberpunk 2077, Baldurs Gate 3, and Black Myth have enjoyed. Or the Steam Survey where approximately 38% of Steam gamers have a PC equal to or more powerful then a PS5. Even publishers like Capcom and Activision have stated most of their revenue comes from PC.

Only huge or PC-centric games sold well. You can look at each year steam chart sales where there is quite a significant drop off of sales games outside top 3-5. Like to a less than 1 mil sales
PC a place where a) hyped games b) 3 zillions trash games c) old games for collectors sold
And publishers stated that they have significant revenue from PC for decade+ already because a) you can sell trash from 90s till today, b) you can sell some gaas stuff to PC crowd who likes them alot
Sony just joined the crowd for Steam collectors (but not players) with their "sell 2 years later on PC" strategy.

 

[Zathalus]

Only huge or PC-centric games sold well. You can look at each year steam chart sales where there is quite a significant drop off of sales games outside top 3-5. Like to a less than 1 mil sales
PC a place where a) hyped games b) 3 zillions trash games c) old games for collectors sold
And publishers stated that they have significant revenue from PC for decade+ already because a) you can sell trash from 90s till today, b) you can sell some gaas stuff to PC crowd who likes them alot
Sony just joined the crowd for Steam collectors (but not players) with their "sell 2 years later on PC" strategy.

Steam charts don't show number of games sold, most analysts and game estimate sites all show games selling in the millions. Even Sony shows its 2-4 year old single player ports can sell several million each. I'm sure the fact that almost all publishers are heavily pushing PC gaming as part of their growth strategy means nothing as well.

It's not 2007 anymore, PC gaming for both multiplayer and single player has wide appeal.

 

[Felessan]

Steam charts don't show number of games sold, most analysts and game estimate sites all show games selling in the millions. Even Sony shows its 2-4 year old single player ports can sell several million each. I'm sure the fact that almost all publishers are heavily pushing PC gaming as part of their growth strategy means nothing as well.

It's not 2007 anymore, PC gaming for both multiplayer and single player has wide appeal.

Only top and famous games sells millions.
All other - not so much. but they sells for years, unlike consoles, that make it so attractive to publishers. Games became "collectable" items on PC and you can sell them forever at almost zero cost.

"Wide appeal" is what PCMR wants to belive. They dont want even aknowledge that PC is still widely a geeek platform (though there are now more geeks that before) and still far from mass market.

 

[Little Chicken]

China loves its toxic, cheap plastic

 

[Zathalus]

Only top and famous games sells millions.
All other - not so much. but they sells for years, unlike consoles, that make it so attractive to publishers. Games became "collectable" items on PC and you can sell them forever at almost zero cost.

"Wide appeal" is what PCMR wants to belive. They dont want even aknowledge that PC is still widely a geeek platform (though there are now more geeks that before) and still far from mass market.

Sure, keep believing that. Any game that sells well on PC is because they are famous (no shit, popular games sell well, what a concept), or because it's old and has had time to sell well (despite consoles having stores that have games going back over a decade as well). Dragons Dogma 2 sold tons on PC? Yeah, because it's popular!

 

[Chuck Berry]

Very cool

 

[TheTony316]

One of the biggest issues with PC that PC evangelist seldom bring up is the lack of a reliable game suspend-resume operation. Unlike Xbox, PS and Nintendo, where game suspend-resume are part of the certification, no PC games are tested for this. Some games just break when you Alt-tab. There is no PS/X/Home button that magically brings out of the game, while reliably storing the current game state. Steam Deck is better at this but even that has issues with sleep resume in some games. Also, in the UK the difference in power consumption should also be a factor, in case you want to go for a PC setup.
Another feature that I miss is push PS/Home button on controller to wake up console. I dunno about the Xbox controller but my Dualsense definitely does not wake up the Steam Deck.

One of the biggest issues (Imo) is shader compilation stutter, which many PC guys like to ignore in console vs PC discussions. It's the main reason why i sold my 6800XT and went back to console gaming.

 

[Zathalus]

One of the biggest issues (Imo) is shader compilation stutter, which many PC guys like to ignore in console vs PC discussions. It's the main reason why i sold my 6800XT and went back to console gaming.

Probably because the majority of shader stutter has been due to UE4 with the newer version of UE5 having dramatically less of it. Of the games released over the past year only the Elden Ring expansion has had significant shader stutter. So not fully solved, but making significant progress.

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

Wtf guys!? Why did that one post that Battaglia made on a different forum derailed this whole thread?

 

[Crayon]

Don't forget people can change their minds. My friend was trying to build a good pc ( not the first time over many years). He briefly said maybe he should just get a PS5 and I agreed because the last two times he built a pc, he got a playstation AFTERWARDS because he never used the pc. I told him to remember the online fees though and he went with a pc.

This time, he's getting a ton of use out of it and is happy with the investment.

Me for a long time I slowed down big-time on pc games because I was getting rsi (i swear it was diablo) and playing with a mouse felt sketchy. Then I switched of windows and any mac or linux I had busted me down to emulators, which I still used quite a bit.

But now with controller support, hdmi, steam linux, - i'm back, baby. My wukong is long and strong.

 

[Crayon]

Wtf guys!? Why did that one post that Battaglia made on a different forum derailed this whole thread?

 

[Krathoon]

I do suspect that this game was made because it would do well in China.

 

[Radical_3d]

I wish I could ditch PC. But Civ games are just better on that shitty platform, and there is a new one incoming. It'll cost me dearly to upgrade my GPU to Civ VII.

 

[TheTony316]

Probably because the majority of shader stutter has been due to UE4 with the newer version of UE5 having dramatically less of it. Of the games released over the past year only the Elden Ring expansion has had significant shader stutter. So not fully solved, but making significant progress.

The Visions of Mana demo is the most recent example.

 

[Boss Man]

Might be seeing a lot more games featuring China in the future.

Also, it's amazing to me how multiple generations of PC gamers now have been unable to comprehend the appeal and value of video game consoles.

The video game industry revolves around consoles.

The only time I want to play a game at my computer desk is for something like EU4. PC is more expensive and less convenient.

*Spends $1500 for a PC to sit it on the carpet under my TV and navigate windows with a mouse from my couch*

Wow, this is just like spending $300 for a dedicated game console that's made for this and that game developers all target so no one can tell when I turn the shadow textures up anyway.

 

[MethodRed]

MS is missing the opportunity because of series s, I hope it pays off later on.

They don't like MS because of their woke agenda

 

[damiank]

Super Saiyan Myth: Kakarot

 

[Zathalus]

The Visions of Mana demo is the most recent example.

I see it actually got a Shader compilation step at the start with a patch recently.

 

[TheTony316]

I see it actually got a Shader compilation step at the start with a patch recently.

It did but the fact that many games suffer from this is a big issue for me.

 

[BlackTron]

Might be seeing a lot more games featuring China in the future.

Also, it's amazing to me how multiple generations of PC gamers now have been unable to comprehend the appeal and value of video game consoles.

The video game industry revolves around consoles.

The only time I want to play a game at my computer desk is for something like EU4. PC is more expensive and less convenient.

*Spends $1500 for a PC to sit it on the carpet under my TV and navigate windows with a mouse from my couch*

Wow, this is just like spending $300 for a dedicated game console that's made for this and that game developers all target so no one can tell when I turn the shadow textures up anyway.

Purely exclusive PC gamers are a vocal minority. Most people who appreciate games can and have done so on multiple devices for different reasons. PC as a viable option to replace consoles is a fairly new idea because all platforms got substantially more samey. In the past without a console you lost entire game libraries. Now the difference is timed exclusivity and how you launch the game. It shouldn't be surprising PC has gotten more mainstream.

 

[Woopah]

Only top and famous games sells millions.
All other - not so much. but they sells for years, unlike consoles, that make it so attractive to publishers. Games became "collectable" items on PC and you can sell them forever at almost zero cost.

"Wide appeal" is what PCMR wants to belive. They dont want even aknowledge that PC is still widely a geeek platform (though there are now more geeks that before) and still far from mass market.

When looking at games that sell millions, how do you tell which are "top and famous" and which are not?

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

Will this finally get it ahead of the PS4 sales curve?