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[rofif]

more on df interview
I really like how Cerny is "that's easy, obvious, it's just a bigger gpu mid gen" and we are fucking bending over backwards over every dissected detail. internet is so stupid.
I just hope consoles stay consoles and will keep the disc drive ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
And he does admit that rasterized kinda has hit the limit and now it's just bigger GPUs that can speed things up. Which is exactly what we see nvidia is doing. 600 watt HUGE graphics cards. Real efficiency is slowing down.

I am just happy there is no pink fat lady this time there with them, fake smiling all the way to the woke bank....

 

[calistan]

what would sony do without mark cerny

 

[SlimySnake]

more on df interview
I really like how Cerny is "that's easy, obvious, it's just a bigger gpu mid gen" and we are fucking bending over backwards over every dissected detail. internet is so stupid.
I just hope consoles stay consoles and will keep the disc drive ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
And he does admit that rasterized kinda has hit the limit and now it's just bigger GPUs that can speed things up. Which is exactly what we see nvidia is doing. 600 watt HUGE graphics cards. Real efficiency is slowing down.

I am just happy there is no pink fat lady this time there with them, fake smiling all the way to the woke bank....

Guess you didnt see the latest leaks. The 5000 series will be using neural AI learning to render graphics. no one knows what that means but they are likely using AI to do what CUs used to do.

 

[rofif]

Guess you didnt see the latest leaks. The 5000 series will be using neural AI learning to render graphics. no one knows what that means but they are likely using AI to do what CUs used to do.

Cerny also says PSSR is toughest thing he ever worked on and very resources consuming. I am telling you... all this AI crap is a scam.
It's a solution in search of a problem. That threat interactive creepy dude video has the right idea...

and yes, These cards are now 600watts also to push raster performance more because of bigger chips

 

[Gaiff]

We’ve known this for how long though, to be fair?

We have for years, but you can't go two posts in a technical thread without fights over TFLOPs.

 

[Celcius]

Another DF video just came out

 

[LavitzSlambert]

Summary: PS5 Pro customized RDNA2 with bottlenecks by CPU and memory, future potential needs new hardware. Raster performance gains will not scale, future efforts directed toward ray tracing and software AI/ML scaling enhancements. Close partnership with AMD in future.


Summary of summary: HeisenbergFX4 ’s source was dead on.


Summary of summary of summary: wait for PS6 unless you want to blow $800 on a handful of games that will actually benefit from this tech a couple years from now.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Guess you didnt see the latest leaks. The 5000 series will be using neural AI learning to render graphics. no one knows what that means but they are likely using AI to do what CUs used to do.

They are very obviously trying to get in front of Nvidia spilling the beans next month. Leather jacket man is about to come up with some brand new buzzwords.

 

[mitch1971]

what an annoying creepy little man

Stop looking in the mirror and watch the video.

 

[AJUMP23]

I think he makes a lot of money but has the worlds worst haircut.

 

[Fafalada]

Cerny made the right call by not having VOPD. It would be an hassle to have 2 shader codes for this generation, for a marginal performance improvement.
And it probably saved a bit of die space.

Space that maybe also helped them reach that 300TOPs on the chip (no cheating with sparsity that people insisted on - that will actually net you 600).

Remember when it was 66TF at first as people thought that 33 was halved?

Well - it does have 67 16bit TFlops though

Anyway the mental gymnastics of mapping retail GPU flops to ML throughput can finally stop at least.
It's nice he touched on just how banal the compute throughput is if you can't work around the memory limitations (And no ram is currently remotely fast enough for it on its own).

 

[SyberWolf]

sounds like they will again be using AMD and keep collaborating for PS6 with Amethyst.

 

[killatopak]

I wish he did a podcast or something. I just want to listen to him talk.

 

[SolidQ]

sounds like they will again be using AMD and keep collaborating for PS6 with Amethyst.

why they need other companies? CPU + GPU cheaper at AMD, also X3Dcpu + UDNA

 

[Imtjnotu]

Cerny also says PSSR is toughest thing he ever worked on and very resources consuming. I am telling you... all this AI crap is a scam.
It's a solution in search of a problem. That threat interactive creepy dude video has the right idea...

and yes, These cards are now 600watts also to push raster performance more because of bigger chips

How is it every major player in the hardware market is using some form of AI, and yet you think it's a scam?

It's a solution to a current problem we have now with diminishing returns in terms of graphics...

The more your software can help push the image the harder everything else has to work. What are you not getting about this? Nvidia has been heavy in this for a decade now

 

[Kaiserstark]

There is no summary on any page?

Here if you want but i will really recomend to just watch the video because Cerny gives a very detailed explanation and it is complicated to summarize precisely what he says.

• Introduction to PS5 Pro
  • Mark Cerny explains the PS5 Pro's focus on improving GPU performance and addressing mid-generation technological advances.
  • Unlike generational leaps (e.g., PS3 → PS4), the Pro model optimizes existing hardware for better game performance without exclusive games.
• Key Goals for PS5 Pro
  • Minimize workload for game developers while achieving significant improvements.
  • Focus on enhancing GPU capabilities for noticeable gameplay improvements.
• The "Big Three" Improvements
  • Larger GPU with 67% more workgroup processors for faster rendering.
  • Advanced ray tracing features using future AMD RDNA technologies.
  • AI-driven upscaling via PlayStation Spectral Super Resolution (PSSR).
• Hybrid GPU Architecture
  • Combines AMD RDNA 2 and RDNA 3 technologies for easier developer adoption.
  • Focused improvements include faster vertex processing and new ray-tracing structures.
• Improved Memory System
  • Increased memory bandwidth (28% higher than PS5).
  • Extra memory added using DDR5 to support ray tracing, upscaling, and higher resolutions, including potential 8K.
• Ray Tracing Enhancements
  • Doubling ray intersection speeds using a new BV8 acceleration structure.
  • Improved performance consistency with hardware-based stack management to reduce divergence issues.
• Machine Learning Integration
  • PSSR uses a custom lightweight convolutional neural network (CNN) to enhance image quality and resolution.
  • Focus on efficient memory use to process frames quickly, enabling 4K upscaling with minimal system bottlenecks.
• Developer-Friendly Design
  • PSSR supports variable upscaling ratios and integrates seamlessly with existing game engines.
  • Maintains compatibility with PS5 for ease of game development.
• Future of Machine Learning in Gaming
  • SIE aims to develop generalized machine learning architectures for broader applications in gaming.
  • Goals include fully fused networks, improved ray tracing, and richer game graphics.
• PS5 Pro's Legacy and Vision
  • The advancements in PS5 Pro lay the groundwork for future technologies, including enhanced machine learning and graphics processing innovations.
  • Collaboration with AMD and internal R&D aims to revolutionize game design and player experiences.

 

[SyberWolf]

why they need other companies? CPU + GPU cheaper at AMD, also X3Dcpu + UDNA

they dont need, but you never know with these companies.
i am happy they are sticking with them. good choice.

 

[Loxus]

why they need other companies? CPU + GPU cheaper at AMD, also X3Dcpu + UDNA

I wonder if UDNA is the result of Amethyst?

Amethyst makes the PS6 even more interesting.

ML need for high bandwidth makes me wonder if Sony would make a cheaper custom design of HBM for PS6.

 

[Imtjnotu]

I wonder if UDNA is the result of Amethyst?

Amethyst makes the PS6 even more interesting.

ML need for high bandwidth makes me wonder if Sony wonder make a cheaper custom design of HBM for PS6.

Has HBM advanced at all in the last 4 years?

 

[rofif]

This is what they should've released before ps5 pro released.
They know they fucked up and pro is probably not selling great

 

[Fess]

What’s that Amethyst thing? Are they doing next generation on multiple devices?

 

[Calverz]

Is he apologising for the poor implementation of PSSR from third parties?

 

[Forsete]

Is he apologising for the poor implementation of PSSR from third parties?

Why should he?

 

[winjer]

What’s that Amethyst thing? Are they doing next generation on multiple devices?

Just a closer collaboration between AMD and Sony to develop new hardware and software.
One example, is that PSSR libraries were developed in conjunction between AMD and Sony, then adapted for PSSR and FSR4.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Also kinda funny that a SEGA game is what threw the PSSR into a confusion fit.

Spoiler

It's a joke, but if you know about the "Blue Skies" meme with SEGA games from the '90s, especially their arcade games, then you know

 

[SweetTooth]

Is he apologising for the poor implementation of PSSR from third parties?

Your mom should apologize for EviLore for having you here

 

[Fess]

Just a closer collaboration between AMD and Sony to develop new hardware and software.
One example, is that PSSR libraries were developed in conjunction between AMD and Sony, then adapted for PSSR and FSR4.

Okay. Weird to end a PS5 Pro video by hyping that just a month after the launch. I only use my Pro for exclusives I can’t play yet on PC but so much is on the way to PC now that it makes me feel like I should’ve just waited on whatever is next. They need to unveil some new games for 2025 tailored for the Pro.

 

[tmlDan]

Not Cerny, but people saying "it's the developers" so it's not a problem.
Maybe you guys are missing understanding me.
I expect Cerny to speak in his calming voice talking to them like you would a child and explaining to those developers how incompetent they are and ridicule and explain to them how to get good.

i have a sneaking suspicion that he released this video for devs who do not directly contact them, it may be them trying to address and explain the tech + the DF interview helps with expectations

but im not educated enough to understand everything in the vid, not my expertise lol

 

[Loxus]

Has HBM advanced at all in the last 4 years?

HBM4 made some possible advancements.

A direct HBM-to-GPU connection, obviating the need for an interposer component, would shorten the distance between DRAM and GPU, speeding data access.

The interposer is what makes HBM so expensive. Removing it in favor of the same connection as RDNA3 MCD should be possible.

 

[Marcos]

Just a closer collaboration between AMD and Sony to develop new hardware and software.
One example, is that PSSR libraries were developed in conjunction between AMD and Sony, then adapted for PSSR and FSR4.

I wonder which are the implications of this in relation with MS next console...

 

[Imtjnotu]

HBM4 made some possible advancements.

A direct HBM-to-GPU connection, obviating the need for an interposer component, would shorten the distance between DRAM and GPU, speeding data access.

The interposer is what makes HBM so expensive. Removing it in favor of the same connection as RDNA3 MCD should be possible.

But did the speed per pin increase? Last time I saw hbm3e was still slower per pin than GDDR6. And I know Gddr7 is 30% faster and 6X.

If anything I see PS6 going with GDDR7X and the 40-48 gbps per pin

 

[winjer]

I wonder which are the implications of this in relation with MS next console...

AMD also has a strong relation with MS.
Remember that the Series X/S, is basically AMD's implementation of DirectX12_2 standard.
But it might not be as close as Amthyst. But only time will tell.

 

[SweetTooth]

I gotta say that I like the presentation flow and diagrams, coupled with Cerny clear and coherent delivery this seminar is a gem for all devs and enthusiasts.

I like how he explained why they didn't move to RDNA3 and beyoned, and "experts" here wanted Sony to change the entire CPU

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Is he apologising for the poor implementation of PSSR from third parties?

Like someone brought up earlier should my stove manufacturer apologize because I can’t cook near as well as my wife can?

 

[DeepEnigma]

Is he apologising for the poor implementation of PSSR from third parties?

 

[saintjules]

what would sony do without mark cerny

Make another PS3.

 

[saintjules]

Another DF video just came out

Nearly an hour and a half of content between the 3 videos.

Christmas certainly came early.

 

[skit_data]

Wierd to release this after the Pro launched, but I can't complain about more Cerny ASMR!

 

[saintjules]

Summary of summary of summary: wait for PS6 unless you want to blow $800 on a handful of games that will actually benefit from this tech a couple years from now.

This option. Thank you.

Wierd to release this after the Pro launched, but I can't complain about more Cerny ASMR!

I mean with all these videos coming out today I can understand they needed more time to prepare these. Maybe scheduling issues, who knows.

 

[Fake]

Hope Cerny work on PS6 because this guy is the only decent left at the Sony right now.

 

[bundylove]

 

[AJUMP23]

Interesting little piece at the end about Amethyst.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Summary of summary of summary: wait for PS6 unless you want to blow $800 on a handful of games that will actually benefit from this tech a couple years from now.

Can you timestamp where this ridiculous take is found in the vid?

 

[sankt-Antonio]

This guy can talk the talk. Damn. The PS6 hype train is being build in the Sony docks as we speak XD

 

[Fake]

PS6 will be the ultimate machine.

 

[RoboFu]

Is it as powerful as a sega saturn? I doubt it.

 

[saintjules]

If you close your eyes Ryan Reynolds sounds like Cerny

 

[The ninja farmer]

So good …….

And explained in such a way that even I could follow most of it

Lots of good stuff

cache on the gpu and the size and speed being important for the future. Quantum leaps in rt coming. 4 years to develop a console, (ps6 Xmas 2028, better start saving .) and the whole section on how they have a goal with what they want to do with rt & ml and how working with amd they hope to get there

Raster being at the max end of the scale and ml being at the other. The shooting down of the pre launch rumours. The memory bandwidth ‘problems’ against tops utilisation. The ‘layers explanation’

So much to take in and all presented in such a smooth style

I could have watched and listened for 2 hours .

(And if Sony if doing this, then I am sure ms have something cooking in the oven for Xbox)

 

[SweetTooth]

Hope Cerny work on PS6 because this guy is the only decent left at the Sony right now.

 

[clintar]

Flopflation

This strange economy we are having...