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[ZeoVGM]

:lol :lol Your a fucking idiot.

LOL ALERT.

 

[TOM f'N CRUISE]

ohhh shit wtf :lol

 

[SimpleDesign]

What the North wants—what makes it so scary—is South Korea. Its intentions are to take over the South, to drive the United States from the Korean Peninsula, and to dominate Japan.

More important, Pyongyang is prepared to use military means, including nuclear weapons, to achieve its imperialist objectives.

wat

 

[ChrisRT]

Does anyone know anything about Asia in this thread? Some of you know what you're talking about and some are just full of BS. Where the hell do some of you form your opinions from?

First of all, China isn't going to do anything. They're not out to start a war with the US. They have too many assets there. You don't punch out the rich kid down on his luck who owes you money. The Chinese military is quite well-trained, but very poorly equipped and would not last in a straight fight. And they do have aircraft carriers though they are pieces of shiet.

If the Chinese were to really do anything, it'd be more an economic war, which they would win without losing a soldier. However, again, if they fuck the US over, it fucks themselves over.

It is true that Japan has a more well-equipped army than China, but I somehow get the feeling if it was a hot war with no US involvement, they'd lose.

Actually, the Chinese military is pretty well equipped. They would very well last in a conventional fight with U.S. forces. They have 1 aircraft carrier that isn't sea worthy and they don't have any Flankers as of yet that can utilize such a carrier. That said, if they did get the carrier up, without support it would be promptly dealt with by the USN.

Asking if anyone knows about Asian in this thread is irrelevant. You sound as if you read too many books.

 

[ChrisRT]

Anti-missile defenses, who needs those? It's a waste of money and it'll never work.

Sigh, proof? It gets so old reading this shit on these message boards. Most of you have no idea of the technology involved in such systems.

 

[SimpleDesign]

What Does North Korea Want?



http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/17484/

EDIT: From the blog linked by Epoch Times. This is similar to what I've been thinking.



http://chinaconfidential.blogspot.com/

Wait, what?

With tacit Chinese approval, North Korea has set in motion a dangerous dynamic that could easily escalate into an all-out war on the Korean Peninsula.

So China is cool with this huh?

 

[Walshicus]

China Confidential blog is a bit funny. Read the article on Iranian revolution below...

 

[Haly]

Wait, what?

So China is cool with this huh?

I think the logic usually goes something like "they don't do anything about it so they must approve".

 

[delirium]

That China Confidential blog is just BS. The South Korean army by itself could beat the North.

 

[SimpleDesign]

The Japanese militarists and the Lee Myung-bak group of traitors [reference to the current South Korean administration] and other lackeys of the U.S. imperialists should stop running wild, since they are fully aware that if they continue in their reckless fashion, they will never be able to escape the stern punishment of the revolutionary armed forces of the DPRK.

What the fuck does that even mean? :lol

 

[ElectricBlue187]

It would be incredibly difficult for the US to justify nuking Pyongyang, regardless of how many rockets they fire into SK. It won't happen....ever. Nukes are now a deterrence against invasion, not a tool of warfare like an F-16.

It's a deterrence against civilized nations not rogue nations who don't care what the world thinks about them. What do we have nuclear weapons for if we threaten to use them and never follow through? Nuking North Korea would send a clear message to other rogue nations that the US doesn't fuck around (or rather, it's not fucking around anymore).

Since when has a war ever been won by "bombing the shit out of them"--- OK, arguably Japan.

Strangely enough it was the last time we used nuclear weapons, coincidence?

Care enough to reinstate the draft to push back a NK offensive? Nope.

I never said I did.

 

[Furoba]

It's a deterrence against civilized nations not rogue nations who don't care what the world thinks about them. What do we have nuclear weapons for if we threaten to use them and never follow through? Nuking North Korea would send a clear message to other rogue nations that the US doesn't fuck around (or rather, it's not fucking around anymore).

Think again.
Nuking huge civilian centers in a pre-emptive strike would be the worst thing for the USA to do. Unless actually threatened, with the other one firing first, nukes are no-no.

 

[JimmyV]

It's a deterrence against civilized nations not rogue nations who don't care what the world thinks about them. What do we have nuclear weapons for if we threaten to use them and never follow through? Nuking North Korea would send a clear message to other rogue nations that the US doesn't fuck around (or rather, it's not fucking around anymore).

Nukes are only ever going to be used if:

a)We are in a situation like Japan were we dont want to risk so many lives
b)We, or another nation, gets nuked first

Both of these only work if the country, N.Korea in this case, attack first. Even if the threaten to use the nukes, we're keeping a close eye on them and we would just bomb wherever they are keeping it. Or right before it launched.

In this day and age nulcear bombs are kinda taboo, so we would only use it if we NEED to.

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

Actually, the Chinese military is pretty well equipped. They would very well last in a conventional fight with U.S. forces. They have 1 aircraft carrier that isn't sea worthy and they don't have any Flankers as of yet that can utilize such a carrier. That said, if they did get the carrier up, without support it would be promptly dealt with by the USN.

Asking if anyone knows about Asian in this thread is irrelevant. You sound as if you read too many books.

Well gee. I wonder where everyone else gets their knowledge then

I'll take back the point that the Chinese are not well-equipped, and say they're not as well equipped as Japan and the US. Aircraft carrier, you're right. Though again, I did say it is pretty useless at this point.

And I don't know how many South Korean soldiers any of you have talked to. But there's a reason why military service is mandatory there. For God's sake, the N. Koreans have artillery that can hit Seoul up on the hills. They don't even need one soldier to set foot in there to do damage. That said, while the North would like to take the South, I also think they don't want to cause too much damage. At the end of the day, they're all Koreans.

And Jesus Christ, do all you guys ever fucking think of is nuking!? It's the worst thing any militarily can do to another. Despite you nuke defenders, how the fuck would you feel if a big urban center with civilians were nuked in your country? All these threads about how free and good America is and then we talk about nuking....

Nuking Japan was a huge mistake as well. MacArthur didn't feel it was necessary. The scientists who created it were sickened by it. The war would've been won a lot sooner had the Yanks cut off the sea sooner. And if any of you believe the nuke was used to 'win the war' you are sadly mistaken. Read a book (yes a book), and you'll learn the people who developed the bomb were thinking more of the Russians than the Japanese. It was a despicable show of force by killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians.

 

[legend166]

Well gee. I wonder where everyone else gets their knowledge then

I'll take back the point that the Chinese are not well-equipped, and say they're not as well equipped as Japan and the US. Aircraft carrier, you're right. Though again, I did say it is pretty useless at this point.

And I don't know how many South Korean soldiers any of you have talked to. But there's a reason why military service is mandatory there. For God's sake, the N. Koreans have artillery that can hit Seoul up on the hills. They don't even need one soldier to set foot in there to do damage. That said, while the North would like to take the South, I also think they don't want to cause too much damage. At the end of the day, they're all Koreans.

And Jesus Christ, do all you guys ever fucking think of is nuking!? It's the worst thing any militarily can do to another. Despite you nuke defenders, how the fuck would you feel if a big urban center with civilians were nuked in your country? All these threads about how free and good America is and then we talk about nuking....

Nuking Japan was a huge mistake as well. MacArthur didn't feel it was necessary. The scientists who created it were sickened by it. The war would've been won a lot sooner had the Yanks cut off the sea sooner. And if any of you believe the nuke was used to 'win the war' you are sadly mistaken. Read a book (yes a book), and you'll learn the people who developed the bomb were thinking more of the Russians than the Japanese. It was a despicable show of force by killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians.

jokerherewego.gif

 

[MC Safety]

Nuking Japan was a huge mistake as well. MacArthur didn't feel it was necessary. The scientists who created it were sickened by it. The war would've been won a lot sooner had the Yanks cut off the sea sooner. And if any of you believe the nuke was used to 'win the war' you are sadly mistaken. Read a book (yes a book), and you'll learn the people who developed the bomb were thinking more of the Russians than the Japanese. It was a despicable show of force by killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians.

This revisionist history won't fly. It hasn't ever flown.

The bombing of Japan, while a horrific act, did put an end to World War II. It did save lives. And it also allowed the subsequent restoration/repair/recovery of Japan and, by extension, war-torn Europe to begin immediately after the war.

 

[Hari Seldon]

I haven't been paying enough attention, but why exactly do they even want to fire or test fire missiles in our direction? What exactly has the US done to piss off NK so much that they are even wanting to appear as wanting to attack US?

They did this shit all the time under Clinton and he gave in by giving them food and whatnot. As we all know Bush was a crazy motherfucker so they kept quiet while he was in office. So now that Obama is back they are acting up to get some more free shit.

 

[Hari Seldon]

The only way the US would be forced into a battle is if NK strikes US soil, which is an impossibility considering their current weapon technology. It also makes no sense from NK's standpoint, since their ultimate aim is the regime's survivability, which would be extinct at the first 'attack' against the US or its allies.

Umm the US has like 40k troops in South Korea that would get steamrolled pretty quick without tactical nukes being used on the massive artillery emplacements that NK has.

 

[SimpleDesign]

Umm the US has like 40k troops in South Korea that would get steamrolled pretty quick without tactical nukes being used on the massive artillery emplacements that NK has.

It's more like 28,500 in South Korea, 50,000 in Japan.

 

[legend166]

Umm the US has like 40k troops in South Korea that would get steamrolled pretty quick without tactical nukes being used on the massive artillery emplacements that NK has.

Why is it always nukes, though? What happened to the good old conventional bomb?

 

[JimmyV]

Nuking Japan was a huge mistake as well. MacArthur didn't feel it was necessary. The scientists who created it were sickened by it. The war would've been won a lot sooner had the Yanks cut off the sea sooner. And if any of you believe the nuke was used to 'win the war' you are sadly mistaken. Read a book (yes a book), and you'll learn the people who developed the bomb were thinking more of the Russians than the Japanese. It was a despicable show of force by killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians.

Did it ever say in your books that we(the US) made the desicion based on the fact we didnt want to loose any more of our soldiers? Invading Japan would have cost us too many lives. 1 million estimated. AND 1 million Japanese.

Also, we gave them warnings the first time, and the second time.

 

[Ranger X]

World War III is that you?

.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Why is it always nukes, though? What happened to the good old conventional bomb?

There is a difference between a tactical nuke used on a mountain and a big ass hydrogen bomb used on a city.

 

[Askia47]

South Korea isnt that weak, it wouldnt get overun that easily. Besides NK forces have to get across the DMZ, which is hard to do with all the mines there. So chances are they would use underground tunnels to get to SK.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Nuking Japan was a huge mistake as well. MacArthur didn't feel it was necessary. The scientists who created it were sickened by it. The war would've been won a lot sooner had the Yanks cut off the sea sooner. And if any of you believe the nuke was used to 'win the war' you are sadly mistaken. Read a book (yes a book), and you'll learn the people who developed the bomb were thinking more of the Russians than the Japanese. It was a despicable show of force by killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians.

LOL what kind of books have you been reading?

 

[JimmyV]

They did this shit all the time under Clinton and he gave in by giving them food and whatnot. As we all know Bush was a crazy motherfucker so they kept quiet while he was in office. So now that Obama is back they are acting up to get some more free shit.

lol the plus of a Republican! Reagan had the same effect :lol

Also, didnt Clinton give them our skematics for bombs?

Umm the US has like 40k troops in South Korea that would get steamrolled pretty quick without tactical nukes being used on the massive artillery emplacements that NK has.

Not really. US would have the Air Force there in no time bombing them, and a little later the Navy attcking from the sea. Not to mention what we have their already. Its a lot more than just our troops.

Granted this would be probably the biggest 'war' since WWII. Hopefully as "popular" as the first Gulf War in terms of support. But if we really dont hold back, we really dont need nukes. Not to mention what we have the no one knows about.

Spoiler

I always say "we" when referring to the US, a force of habit, sorry

I'm pretty positive the majority of asian countries dont like NK, so it'd be safe to assume SK would get the extra boost if they asked.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Not really. US would have the Air Force there in no time bombing them, and a little later the Navy attcking from the sea. Not to mention what we have their already. Its a lot more than just our troops.

Granted this would be probably the biggest 'war' since WWII. Hopefully as "popular" as the first Gulf War in terms of support. But if we really dont hold back, we really dont need nukes. Not to mention what we have the no one knows about.

Spoiler

I always say "we" when referring to the US, a force of habit, sorry

I agree but I'm talking about the first 24 hours when it is pretty much ground force vs ground force. If a surprise NK ground assault happens, then the amount of airpower that we could muster that quickly would not be enough to deal with the shear amount of NK artillery. You are talking about artillery emplacements dug deep into the mountain side, so a precision strikes on each emplacement would be necessary (assuming you even know where they all are).

I'm not saying that the US/UN/SK would lose the war, but I'm saying that the first 24 hours would bring way more casualties than both gulf wars + Afghanistan combined, unless we resorted to using tactical nukes which could destroy the artillery very quickly.

 

[baardhimself]

Truman is a war criminal!

 

[JimmyV]

^^:lol , i dont watch it often, and when i do that episode was on:lol
Still love the guy though.

I agree but I'm talking about the first 24 hours when it is pretty much ground force vs ground force. If a surprise NK ground assault happens, then the amount of airpower that we could muster that quickly would not be enough to deal with the shear amount of NK artillery. You are talking about artillery emplacements dug deep into the mountain side, so a precision strikes on each emplacement would be necessary (assuming you even know where they all are).

I'm not saying that the US/UN/SK would lose the war, but I'm saying that the first 24 hours would bring way more casualties than both gulf wars + Afghanistan combined, unless we resorted to using tactical nukes which could destroy the artillery very quickly.

Okay I get ya. But any nukes what-so-ever, just one, would pretty much get rid of those(unless their really spead out).

Not too sure, but did anyone even develop nukes that are more contained in terms of the explosion? In appose to seeing who can make the bigger blast?

The only problem is there would be too big of a backlash. I can image going to work the next day, me being happy this war will end soon, then getting pissed because the protesters are blocking my way =/

 

[ALeperMessiah]

Not too sure, but did anyone even develop nukes that are more contained in terms of the explosion? In appose to seeing who can make the bigger blast?

The only problem is there would be too big of a backlash. I can image going to work the next day, me being happy this war will end soon, then getting pissed because the protesters are blocking my way =/

Tactical nukes are meant to do just that, relatively small explosion (much smaller than the WWII ones) to take out hardened targets. There was talk of using them as bunker busters, but the backlash probably would have been too severe.

In fact, after Tsar Bomba they kind of went away from who can do the bigger boom and stuck with what was more feasible. Since the bigger bombs can only be dropped from slow moving bombers or supply ships, not ICBM's.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Okay I get ya. But any nukes what-so-ever, just one, would pretty much get rid of those(unless their really spead out).

Not too sure, but did anyone even develop nukes that are more contained in terms of the explosion? In appose to seeing who can make the bigger blast?

The only problem is there would be too big of a backlash. I can image going to work the next day, me being happy this war will end soon, then getting pissed because the protesters are blocking my way =/

No, we are talking tactical nukes. I think people are confused between the big hydrogen bombs that can take out a whole city easily, and the small tactical nukes that are basically replacements for carpet bombing. These were developed to deal with a soviet invasion out of east Germany during the cold war. The idea was to kill the soldiers, not the civilians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactical_nuke

 

[JimmyV]

Tactical nukes are meant to do just that, relatively small explosion (much smaller than the WWII ones) to take out hardened targets. There was talk of using them as bunker busters, but the backlash probably would have been too severe.

In fact, after Tsar Bomba they kind of went away from who can do the bigger boom and stuck with what was more feasible. Since the bigger bombs can only be dropped from slow moving bombers or supply ships, not ICBM's.

No, we are talking tactical nukes. I think people are confused between the big hydrogen bombs that can take out a whole city easily, and the small tactical nukes that are basically replacements for carpet bombing. These were developed to deal with a soviet invasion out of east Germany during the cold war. The idea was to kill the soldiers, not the civilians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactical_nuke

Wow I just thought the term "tactical nuke" meant a more calculated traget, I had no idea they were like that. Wikipedia time....

 

[GodofWine]

Wow I just thought the term "tactical nuke" meant a more calculated traget, I had no idea they were like that. Wikipedia time....

Nuclear Land Mines!!! WOW...


...on this whole NK thing...couldn't we go all 'clinton' on them, fire about 40 cruise missles and destroy all the launching pads and cripple their nuclear enrichment facility(s).

 

[daw840]

Nuclear Land Mines!!! WOW...


...on this whole NK thing...couldn't we go all 'clinton' on them, fire about 40 cruise missles and destroy all the launching pads and cripple their nuclear enrichment facility(s).

 

[delirium]

Umm the US has like 40k troops in South Korea that would get steamrolled pretty quick without tactical nukes being used on the massive artillery emplacements that NK has.

Aren't you forgetting about oh, the fucking South Korean military? 650k active military personnel and modern arms could easily hold the North Koreans by themselves.

 

[Woo-Fu]

Nukes are only ever going to be used if:

a)We are in a situation like Japan were we dont want to risk so many lives

Never heard of Dresden, have you?

Back to the original topic, an NK long-range missile test in our direction on July 4th could wind up causing more fireworks than anybody wants.

 

[besada]

Aren't you forgetting about oh, the fucking South Korean military? 650k active military personnel and modern arms could easily hold the North Koreans by themselves.

Versus a million man army with more than 1000 artillery emplacements pre-targeted and ready to fire.

The only certainty in a hot war with N. Korea is that a bunch of people are going to die. It would make every war in the last forty years look like a pissing contest.

 

[JimmyV]

Nuclear Land Mines!!! WOW...


...on this whole NK thing...couldn't we go all 'clinton' on them, fire about 40 cruise missles and destroy all the launching pads and cripple their nuclear enrichment facility(s).

Wat? Why would quote me when I said nothing about nuclear land mines?

Never heard of Dresden, have you?

Back to the original topic, an NK long-range missile test in our direction on July 4th could wind up causing more fireworks than anybody wants.

Are you referring to the WWII bombing? if so, what does it have to do with anything? Are you saying we should do the same to NK but with nukes?

And yeah, if they launch anything our way, especially on that day, they will have their own fireworks show. And Korea as a whole will have their own 4th of July.

 

[xbhaskarx]

Sigh, proof? It gets so old reading this shit on these message boards. Most of you have no idea of the technology involved in such systems.

If your sarcasm detector is really that broken, read my next comment.

 

[delirium]

Versus a million man army with more than 1000 artillery emplacements pre-targeted and ready to fire.

The only certainty in a hot war with N. Korea is that a bunch of people are going to die. It would make every war in the last forty years look like a pissing contest.

The South Korean army with a modern air force (that would have air superiority within minutes of the start of the war), a modern navy, and the North would have to cross one of the heaviest mined areas in the world.

 

[Tideas]

why do ppl keep saying to nuke north korea? that place has to be livable for the innocent civilians yah know...

besides, the US got enough conventional bombs to wipe out every building in NK out of existence anyway. no need for radiation

 

[Jamesfrom818]

Before anything happens, the women must be evacuated! Hwang Mi Hee and Lee Hyori must be saved!

 

[PhoenixDark]

So basically if NK does anything they can kiss their government goodbye. From what I've read even Russia feels threatened so they wouldn't get in the way of a US retaliation strike on NK, assuming of course that NK would ever strike SK or Japan.

So where does China fit in all this?

 

[Haly]

So basically if NK does anything they can kiss their government goodbye. From what I've read even Russia feels threatened so they wouldn't get in the way of a US retaliation strike on NK, assuming of course that NK would ever strike SK or Japan.

So where does China fit in all this?

Either they put up some half-hearted protest against any retaliating parties or they give up babysitting NK and go back to building skyscrapers in Shanghai. I really can't see this fiasco leading to WWIII.

 

[SimpleDesign]

So basically if NK does anything they can kiss their government goodbye. From what I've read even Russia feels threatened so they wouldn't get in the way of a US retaliation strike on NK, assuming of course that NK would ever strike SK or Japan.

So where does China fit in all this?

China is the one pulling all the strings, North Korea is just a pawn in their game for global dominance.

 

[nyong]

Drudge headline:

Navy Destroyer Moves to Intercept North Korean Vessel

Also reported on Fox. As usual, absent from CNN and MSNBC. They will probably pick up the story eventually. We might find out real soon whether NK was bluffing.

 

[Herpes Reasons]

nothing like a world war to stimulate the economy.

 

[CharlieDigital]

So basically if NK does anything they can kiss their government goodbye. From what I've read even Russia feels threatened so they wouldn't get in the way of a US retaliation strike on NK, assuming of course that NK would ever strike SK or Japan.

So where does China fit in all this?

That's my question, too.

What possible benefit would China have in supporting NK? Financial? Political?

I don't get it.

 

[delirium]

That's my question, too.

What possible benefit would China have in supporting NK? Financial? Political?

I don't get it.

Slowing down the US. If the US has to constantly deal with North Korea, they have less resources to deal with China.

 

[gutter_trash]

ohhh shit wtf :lol

oh CTV!
Conservative Television fail