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[Frog-fu]

Lol so now that you got caught, you downplay the staff to a stick.

Love this.

That gif is the conclusion of that little scrap.

It doesn't show that Rey was actually get hit and had to scrap to win. The staff didn't come into it successfully until those few last seconds.

Rey struggled a fair bit there, and that was against two random jobbers.

Downplaying the staff to a stick is nowhere near as egregious as downplaying Kylo Ren as a "bleeding punk with his head up his ass."

 

[plasmawave]

Lol so now that you got caught, you downplay the staff to a stick.

Love this.

She's no staff master that much is clear. She even gets punched in the face in that scene but let's not show that part.

And LOL that 10 seconds clip were enough to convince some of you that she's a staff/combat master? Really??

 

[The One and Done™]

She knows how to hit people with a stick, that does not translate into advanced saber fighting techniques, even wounded Ren should have been a considerable threat since he's actually been trained.

Oh wow. Rey may have used the mindtrick on you.

 

[excelsiorlef]

She's no staff master that much is clear. She even gets punched in the face in that scene but let's not show that part.

And LOL that 10 seconds clip were enough to convince some of you that she's a staff/combat master? Really??

No called her a master. Merely someone who knows how to fight with a staff.

Ren isn't a lightsaber master either. I mean that was made clear.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

I also challenge your observation Ren lost due to his ego. Ego had nothing to do with it. Ren was confident in his abilities - as he should have been, given the fact he was facing two novices with no apparent skill or experience in either the Force or lightsabers.

Ego led him to toying with them. It cost him a strike to the upper arm against Finn, and certainly didn't help him with Rey. Hell, if he had no ego and hadn't been ordered by Snoke to take Rey alive, he likely would have just killed them both after flinging Rey against that tree.

In those gifs you quoted, you see how he lets Finn arm himself; he lets Finn get back up after knocking him down; he lets Rey arm herself, etc.

If the gloves were off and he weren't being a cocksure dickhead, he would've taken them, I have no doubt.

 

[PopeReal]

The force works exactly the way the movies (and other canon) tells us it works.

You may want some training process, and you don't have to like the story they are telling. But this is Lucas Films story to tell. We see the force awakening in Rey, so it works exactly like that.

 

[BlastProcessing]

She knows how to hit people with a stick, that does not translate into advanced saber fighting techniques, even wounded Ren should have been a considerable threat since he's actually been trained.

You know, you could have just thanked Plop for helping you out there. It's adorable how you couldn't even bring yourself to quote the gif that proves you misremembered.

 

[foxtrot3d]

She's no staff master that much is clear. She even gets punched in the face in that scene but let's not show that part.

And LOL that 10 seconds clip were enough to convince some of you that she's a staff/combat master? Really??

The levels of mind bending logic people are willing to go through to justify Rey being a lightsaber master is truly mind boggling. Also, you seemed to only clip the last few seconds of that part where she uses her staff to basically wack the two guys at the end of the fight, ignoring the flaying kicks and punches she did before that. You're basically taking one scene in which she barely fought off junkyard ruffians and extrapolating that to justify her being able to take down a trained Dark Jedi, fully in tune/aware of his ability to command The Force.

The force works exactly the way the movies (and other canon) tells us it works.

You may want some training process, and you don't have to like the story they are telling. But this is Lucas Films story to tell. We see the force awakening in Rey, so it works exactly like that.

Um, so what? That doesn't excuse it from criticism such as whether it is good from a storytelling perspective. The prequels were a Lucasfilm story that doesn't mean we have to accept all the nonsense we got in them as above criticism.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

That gif is the conclusion of that little scrap.

It doesn't show that Rey was actually get hit and had to scrap to win. The staff didn't come into it successfully until those few last seconds.

Rey struggled a fair bit there, and that was against two random jobbers.

Downplaying the staff to a stick is nowhere near as egregious as downplaying Kylo Ren as a "bleeding punk with his head up his ass."

She's no staff master that much is clear. She even gets punched in the face in that scene but let's not show that part.

And LOL that 10 seconds clip were enough to convince some of you that she's a staff/combat master? Really??

You're attacking points I never made.

I showed that small part alone because he said she never used the staff against them on Jakku. My point was that she did. And she did.

Yes, she got punched in the face before that. That has nothing to do with how she's a capable fighter with some skill with the staff. Unless you're willing to say that Luke getting his hand cut off by Vader meant he had zero skill with the saber.

 

[excelsiorlef]

The levels of mind bending logic people are willing to go through to justify Rey being a lightsaber master is truly mind boggling. Also, you seemed to only clip the last few seconds of that part where she uses her staff to basically wack the two guys at the end of the fight, ignoring the flaying kicks and punches she did before that. You're basically taking one scene in which she barely fought off junkyard ruffians and extrapolating that to justify her being able to take down a trained Dark Jedi, fully in tune/aware of his ability to command The Force.

Who the fuck called her a lightsaber master?

 

[plasmawave]

The levels of mind bending logic people are willing to go through to justify Rey being a lightsaber master is truly mind boggling. Also, you seemed to only clip the last few seconds of that part where she uses her staff to basically wack the two guys at the end of the fight, ignoring the flaying kicks and punches she did before that. You're basically taking one scene in which she barely fought off junkyard ruffians and extrapolating that to justify her being able to take down a trained Dark Jedi, fully in tune/aware of his ability to command The Force.



Um, so what? That doesn't excuse it from criticism such as whether it is good from a storytelling perspective. The prequels were a Lucasfilm story that doesn't mean we have to accept all the nonsense we got in them as above criticism.

Not to mention she's fighting against guys who are unarmed.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

The levels of mind bending logic people are willing to go through to justify Rey being a lightsaber master is truly mind boggling. Also, you seemed to only clip the last few seconds of that part where she uses her staff to basically wack the two guys at the end of the fight, ignoring the flaying kicks and punches she did before that. You're basically taking one scene in which she barely fought off junkyard ruffians and extrapolating that to justify her being able to take down a trained Dark Jedi, fully in tune/aware of his ability to command The Force.

You're literally inventing shit from whole cloth.

Nobody is justifying anything. The point I'm making is that she's proven she knows how to fight. She has talent fighting with a weapon. The Force later accentuates that power. It guided her. As Obi told Luke it could do in ANH.

But let's ignore the actual points being made and invent our own:

That gif proves she's the best fighter in the world and is the all-time leader of the Force! (There's a softball you can swing at, since nuance doesn't seem to be your thing)

 

[flatearthpandas]

How do people not take issue with Rey's competence and yet take issue with anything else in the movie? You give someone a light saber, they aren't ready to fight someone who has trained for years as a Jedi. Whether Ren is fucking with them or not. Finn would have some believable reason for not getting instantly carved into meat, seeing as he spent thirty years training for his first ever fight as a storm trooper (even though somehow they're still all shit after that training) but Rey has no excuse. One wild overswing, one punch to the head, fight over. This isn't anything against female protagonists or wanting to see Rey get beat up, I just think she had no business being in that situation yet. Competent people overcoming odds is good action. Incompetent people doing it is comedy or bad action. I get the emotional appeal of watching someone be awesome with no training be great at something, but how is this stimulating in any way? Why do people hate the idea of people needing training, discipline, and practice to be good at something?

Edit: there it is, right above. The force. Magically, you can be better than training if the magic wills it. What a joke.

 

[Frog-fu]

Ego led him to toying with them. It cost him a strike to the upper arm against Finn, and certainly didn't help him with Rey. Hell, if he had no ego and hadn't been ordered by Snoke to take Rey alive, he likely would have just killed them both after flinging Rey against that tree.

In those gifs you quoted, you see how he lets Finn arm himself; he lets Finn get back up after knocking him down; he lets Rey arm herself, etc.

If the gloves were off and he weren't being a cocksure dickhead, he would've taken them, I have no doubt.

Ren's hate for Finn is what led him to toy with him. Finn's strike to Ren's arm was the equivalent of that of Luke against Vader during their duel in Empire. Neither hurt much and only served to annoy them, and in the case of Ren was followed shortly by a brutal knock out.

Ren wasn't toying with Rey at all, he was actively hunting her her down and taking her seriously because she had just managed to overpower his Force Pull on the lightsaber. Your own gifs prove that. Ren had no reason to underestimate Rey to the point of toying with her at that point and the way he fought her reflects that.

The gloves were off. And he was winning, until he wasn't because of plot.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

Not to mention she's fighting against guys who are unarmed.

They don't have to be armed for her to prove at least some skill fighting with a weapon. Only she does.

 

[plasmawave]

They don't have to be armed for her to prove at least some skill fighting with a weapon. Only she does.

But is she skilled enough to fight someone with a weapon?

 

[PopeReal]

The levels of mind bending logic people are willing to go through to justify Rey being a lightsaber master is truly mind boggling. Also, you seemed to only clip the last few seconds of that part where she uses her staff to basically wack the two guys at the end of the fight, ignoring the flaying kicks and punches she did before that. You're basically taking one scene in which she barely fought off junkyard ruffians and extrapolating that to justify her being able to take down a trained Dark Jedi, fully in tune/aware of his ability to command The Force.



Um, so what? That doesn't excuse it from criticism such as whether it is good from a storytelling perspective. The prequels were a Lucasfilm story that doesn't mean we have to accept all the nonsense we got in them as above criticism.

In my post I clearly say you don't have to like it. I am not the criticism police.

Just like others are not the force police.

 

[Big One]

I don't think she's a Mary Sue at all. Like others have stated it's pretty clear in the movie that she's had Jedi training in the past, or else her flashback would ultimately be pointless.

Just because she's a new version of Anakin/Luke doesn't mean she has to exactly be like them. She doesn't come from humble beginnings like they do and it's pretty obvious by the implications the movie makes about her.

 

[foxtrot3d]

How do people not take issue with Rey's competence and yet take issue with anything else in the movie? You give someone a light saber, they aren't ready to fight someone who has trained for years as a Jedi. Whether Ren is fucking with them or not. Finn would have some believable reason for not getting instantly carved into meat, seeing as he spent thirty years training for his first ever fight as a storm trooper (even though somehow they're still all shit after that training) but Rey has no excuse. One wild overswing, one punch to the head, fight over. This isn't anything against female protagonists or wanting to see Rey get beat up, I just think she had no business being in that situation yet. Competent people overcoming odds is good action. Incompetent people doing it is comedy or bad action. I get the emotional appeal of watching someone be awesome with no training be great at something, but how is this stimulating in any way? Why do people hate the idea of people needing training, discipline, and practice to be good at something?

Edit: there it is, right above. The force. Magically, you can be better than training if the magic wills it. What a joke.

I dunno man, I just don't get it. The fight wit Finn was filled with more tension precisely because we knew he was outmatched and were thus filled with anxiety and tension as we tried to figure if he would manage to get out of the fight. Rey's fight managed to be exciting right until the end when all the tension was broken and logic was thrown out the window in favor of "it was The Force."

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

How do people not take issue with Rey's competence and yet take issue with anything else in the movie? You give someone a light saber, they aren't ready to fight someone who has trained for years as a Jedi. Whether Ren is fucking with them or not. Finn would have some believable reason for not getting instantly carved into meat, seeing as he spent thirty years training for his first ever fight as a storm trooper (even though somehow they're still all shit after that training) but Rey has no excuse. One wild overswing, one punch to the head, fight over. This isn't anything against female protagonists or wanting to see Rey get beat up, I just think she had no business being in that situation yet. Competent people overcoming odds is good action. Incompetent people doing it is comedy or bad action. I get the emotional appeal of watching someone be awesome with no training be great at something, but how is this stimulating in any way? Why do people hate the idea of people needing training, discipline, and practice to be good at something?

Edit: there it is, right above. The force. Magically, you can be better than training if the magic wills it. What a joke.

Blame Lucas. He wrote ANH, where Obi Wan tells Luke that it not only controls the user, but also obeys the user.

It's during the part where Luke goes from being shot by a laser ball to blocking lasers while blind. Two minutes after first using a lightsaber, he's suddenly blocking beams of light. Was it "training" that made him better? Nope. Magic willed it.

What a joke, right?

But is she skilled enough to fight someone with a weapon?

Ren would say yes.

Ren's hate for Finn is what led him to toy with him. Finn's strike to Ren's arm was the equivalent of that of Luke against Vader during their duel in Empire. Neither hurt much and only served to annoy them, and in the case of Ren was followed shortly by a brutal knock out.

Ren wasn't toying with Rey at all, he was actively hunting her her down and taking her seriously because she had just managed to overpower his Force Pull on the lightsaber. Your own gifs prove that. Ren had no reason to underestimate Rey to the point of toying with her at that point and the way he fought her reflects that.

The gloves were off. And he was winning, until he wasn't because of plot.

My gifs show him fighting her with the saber in one hand, doing his fancy little twirls with it. He's pursuing her. Backing her up. Intimidating her.

If he wanted her dead, he'd just Force Throw her into a tree (again) or chasm and be done with it.

 

[Toxi]

Edit: there it is, right above. The force. Magically, you can be better than training if the magic wills it. What a joke.

It's almost like that time in the original Star Wars when the rookie pilot with zero experience flying a X-Wing made a seemingly impossible shot the veteran professionals using targeting computers couldn't.

Congratufuckinglations, you finally figured out how the Force works in Star Wars.

 

[Kin5290]

Yeah, I'm not really seeing Rey as "super OP" if her feats in this movie involve mucking about in a dude's head and getting him to do what she wants... when the dude is specifically established to be more vulnerable to mental manipulation, and then kicking the ass of a guy who is already greviously wounded and bleeding out after a Heroic Second Wind.

 

[PopeReal]

I dunno man, I just don't get it. The fight wit Finn was filled with more tension precisely because we knew he was outmatched and were thus filled with anxiety and tension as we tried to figure if he would manage to get out of the fight. Rey's fight managed to be exciting right until the end when all the tension was broken and logic was thrown out the window in favor of "it was The Force."

The force has always been greater than logic in this universe.

 

[plasmawave]

Ren would say yes.

Enough to fight a trained light saber user? And you reasoning is this?

Do you know why people don't have a problem with Ren being a skilled Light Saber user? Because the movie made it clear by showing us through the whole movie. They needed to properly set up Rey's combat skill if they wanted to convey that she's a skilled fighter.

Even Finn used the light saber against Kylo Ren but we did see him fight another storm trooper with it before. Pretty extensively too.

 

[foxtrot3d]

It's almost like that time in the original Star Wars when the rookie pilot with zero experience flying a X-Wing made a seemingly impossible shot the veteran professionals using targeting computers couldn't.

Congratufuckinglations, you finally figured out how the Force works in Star Wars.

You mean the guy who is touted throughout the entire movie as one of the best pilots in the Outer Rim who used to shoot womprats in his T-16 back home for fun and didn't consider the thermal port much bigger or harder than that? That guy?

 

[excelsiorlef]

You mean the guy who is touted throughout the entire movie as one of the best pilots in the Outer Rim who used to shoot womprats in his T-16 back home for fun and didn't consider the thermal port much bigger or harder than that? That guy?

So basically what you really need was someone to say watch out for Rey she's a great pilot and amazing with a staf.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

Enough to fight a trained light saber user? And you reasoning is this?

Do you know why people don't have a problem with Ren being a skilled Light Saber user? Because the movie made it clear by showing us through the whole movie. They needed to properly set up Rey's combat skill if they wanted to convey that she's a skilled fighter.

But they showed she can fight. And they showed she can fight with a weapon. And then they showed she had a powerful connection to the Force. And then they showed that combining those three things let her overpower a man who was weakened, distracted, ordered to take her alive, hadn't completed his training and, judging by the look on his face after she closes her eyes and lets the Force take control, scared shitless.

 

[flatearthpandas]

Blame Lucas. He wrote ANH, where Obi Wan tells Luke that it not only controls the user, but also obeys the user.

It's during the part where Luke goes from being shot by a laser ball to blocking lasers while blind. Two minutes after first using a lightsaber, he's suddenly blocking beams of light. Was it "training" that made him better? Nope. Magic willed it.

What a joke, right?

Great rebuttal to where I said that was better. Oh shit, never said that, back to the drawing board. Nevermind that that was part of the actual training Luke went through and for all we know that ball was set to baby's first lightsaber mode. Not sure how that is analogous to fighting a trained jedi. Again, how is this intellectually satisfying?

 

[Frog-fu]

Blame Lucas. He wrote ANH, where Obi Wan tells Luke that it not only controls the user, but also obeys the user.

It's during the part where Luke goes from being shot by a laser ball to blocking lasers while blind. Two minutes after first using a lightsaber, he's suddenly blocking beams of light. Was it "training" that made him better? Nope. Magic willed it.

What a joke, right?

Lucas also wrote - and more importantly - showed that using the Force required training and practice. Rey had neither.

You and others one the same side of the argument like to bring up that droid sequence a lot, but you never contextualise it the way it was shown in the film because that doesn't benefit your argument.

The droid was used for basic training. In a safe environment. Under tutelage of a Master.

How you can honestly rationalise any comparison to the feats Rey accomplishes in this film with no training whatsoever?

HarSon put it better than I could.

That scene is the equivalent of you struggling to do a bench press, and someone points out that your grip is too close together - and once correcting the bad form you're able to do it. You had the necessary tools to do it, and would have likely figured it out on your own, but thanks to having a seasoned practitioner at your backside - the learning curve was considerably lessened.

Rey is told what the force is by someone looking from the outside in, and Luke is given step by step instructions by an experienced teacher and force practitioner.

There's also a difference between practice against a droid with no legitimate consequences suffered if messing up, with the wisdom of an experienced teacher at your backside, and flying solo against a live opponent where any misstep can cost the life of you and your friend.

Maybe she has a more natural aptitude for the force than Luke, and is more of a prodigy in comparison. I just felt Luke's progressions were better handled, and I think the presence of Obi Wan was the biggest reason why. She could have very well had previous training, but we're only able to go off what we're shown.

 

[darkazcura]

You mean the guy who is touted throughout the entire movie as one of the best pilots in the Outer Rim who used to shoot womprats in his T-16 back home for fun and didn't consider the thermal port much bigger or harder than that? That guy?

I'm sorry but I always laughed when Luke brought that up in the movie. It sounds like a joke compared to properly trained pilots. Was your post honestly trying to defend Luke? It just makes it sound even more unrealistic than it already was.

If you honestly believe and are okay with what you just posted, you should objectively have no issue with what Rey accomplished in this movie.

To me, the Luke thing always felt like if I personally said this about my own life: 'I can make 30-35 free throws in a row with no problem in my backyard. I should be able to shoot them with no problem in an NBA game after running up and down a court, getting drained of all my energy while trying to keep up with people 5x more athletic than me.' It's crazy that someone with no battle experience was able to keep up and follow squad commands with no prior real life experience.

 

[Toxi]

You mean the guy who is touted throughout the entire movie as one of the best pilots in the Outer Rim

Where the hell did you get this horseshit?

who used to shoot womprats in his T-16 back home for fun and didn't consider the thermal port much bigger or harder than that? That guy?

Again, this is the Star Wars equivalent of "I shot cans back on my farm".

Luke has zero experience flying a starfighter. He has zero experience serving as part of a squadron. He has zero experience flying in space. And if you think him shooting womp-rats in a T-16 qualifies him as having as much training in dogfights as the other pilots of Red Squadron, then you should have no problem accepting that Rey whacking three street thugs with a stick means she has as much training in lightsaber combat as Kylo Ren.

 

[Speely]

But they showed she can fight. And they showed she can fight with a weapon. And then they showed she had a powerful connection to the Force. And then they showed that combining those three things let her overpower a man who was weakened, distracted, ordered to take her alive, hadn't completed his training and, judging by the look on his face after she closes her eyes and lets the Force take control, scared shitless.

Yep.

And that's really all there is to it. At this point, people are just saying "that's not enough" as if there is some objective threshold of ability that needs to be reached before you can be a Star Wars hero.

 

[Frog-fu]

My gifs show him fighting her with the saber in one hand, doing his fancy little twirls with it. He's pursuing her. Backing her up. Intimidating her.

If he wanted her dead, he'd just Force Throw her into a tree (again) or chasm and be done with it.

That's an interesting way to look at it.

I would think the gifs showed Ren maintaining disciplined and deadly swordplay against an opponent who he has determined to be a threat worthy of taking seriously.

Ren didn't want her dead whilst pursuing her but that does not preclude him from taking her seriously enough to cause serious harm. He was actively trying to hurt her.

 

[foxtrot3d]

So basically what you really need was someone to say watch out for Rey she's a great pilot and amazing with a staf.

Well, you see there is this thing called a setup. If it is never setup that for example Rey is a pilot then it breaks the implicit rule with the audience if she suddenly starts piloting an X-Wing as an ace pilot. These things have to be established otherwise the audience has no idea what a character can or cannot do and thus there can be no tension in a scene if every second a character breaks out a suddenly new skill we had no idea they possessed in the first place.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

You mean the guy who is touted throughout the entire movie as one of the best pilots in the Outer Rim who used to shoot womprats in his T-16 back home for fun and didn't consider the thermal port much bigger or harder than that? That guy?

Him making that impossible shot while in a narrow trench, flying at super high speed, while being pursued by TIE Fighters and shot by laser cannons, without a functioning stabilizer on the X-Wing, without the help of a targeting computer, and in a ship he had never been in before is just silly. It's a massive step up from what he's used to doing.

Oh wait! So is what Rey did to Kylo Ren! She's used to fighting for survival and hitting people with her "stick," then goes ahead and takes the impossible shot against Ren and succeeds.

But somehow, her victory is an example of broken storytelling and his isn't.

 

[darkazcura]

But they showed she can fight. And they showed she can fight with a weapon. And then they showed she had a powerful connection to the Force. And then they showed that combining those three things let her overpower a man who was weakened, distracted, ordered to take her alive, hadn't completed his training and, judging by the look on his face after she closes her eyes and lets the Force take control, scared shitless.

Bingo. Concise and straight to the point.

 

[PopeReal]

Lol so we just needed someone to tell us how bad ass she is. Her showing us isn't enough.

 

[Toxi]

Why did Luke want to even go to the Academy when he was clearly already an expert TIE Fighter pilot after shooting womp-rats in his T-16? Clearly shooting womp-rats is the quickest route to becoming the best fighter pilot in the Outer Rim.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Lol so we just needed someone to tell us how bad ass she is. Her showing us isn't enough.

Amazing isn't it.


Tell not show apparently.

 

[GhaleonEB]

That's an interesting way to look at it.

I would think the gifs showed Ren maintaining disciplined and deadly swordplay against an opponent who he has determined to be a threat worthy of taking seriously.

Ren didn't want her dead whilst pursuing her but that does not preclude him from taking her seriously enough to cause serious harm. He was actively trying to hurt her.

He sees her as competent, and after the whack Finn gave him, certainly isn't going to take chances. But he also had a lot of chances to hurt her and didn't. When Ren backs her up in a small ravine she has to climb up it and then over, and Ren twice just whacks the ground at her feet to keep her on the run. He could have taken her legs off on a whim. (Just got back from a showing, and was watching the fight very closely.)

 

[excelsiorlef]

Him making that impossible shot while in a narrow trench, flying at super high speed, while being pursued by TIE Fighters and shot by laser cannons, without a functioning stabilizer on the X-Wing, without the help of a targeting computer, and in a ship he had never been in before is just silly. It's a massive step up from what he's used to doing.

Oh wait! So is what Rey did to Kylo Ren! She's used to fighting for survival and hitting people with her "stick," then goes ahead and takes the impossible shot against Ren and succeeds.

But somehow, her victory is an example of broken storytelling and his isn't.

Didn't Luke also close his fucking eyes and let the force guide him to target properly? Ie made the shot blind with minimal force training?

 

[The One and Done™]

foxtrot is actually Rens alt account.

 

[flatearthpandas]

Lol so we just needed someone to tell us how bad ass she is. Her showing us isn't enough.

Better yet, we can just assume she is a genius prodigy at everything from now on whose magic will propel her through every situation and enemies of any amount of skill and training. Sure sounds exciting.

What Rey needed was to not be an urchin. If she had some believable reason for being trained in anything besides scavenging to any degree of competency everything but the mind trick would be much easier to swallow.

 

[Frog-fu]

Luke has zero experience flying a starfighter. He has zero experience serving as part of a squadron. He has zero experience flying in space. And if you think him shooting womp-rats in a T-16 qualifies him as having as much training in fighter dogfights as the other pilots of Red Squadron, then you should have no problem accepting that Rey whacking three street thugs with a stick means she has as much training in lightsaber combat as Kylo Ren.

Luke is early on established as a pilot. The movie goes out of its way to make that clear. He goes out of his way to establish he is a particularly capable pilot and the story and characters around him go out of their way to establish the X-Wing has similar controls to the ship he flew on home.

Canonical sources further confirmed that, down to the similar speeds.

At best you're arguing two wrongs make a right.

Not that I give a shit that Rey can fly though. That's fine by. So are her mechanical abilities. I don't even really care all that much that she is an amazing person with no real flaws.

Mary Sues are hardly ever defined by one trait. It's determined by scale. Things add up, and some things have much greater weight to them than others. In Star Wars that's the Force and lightsabers.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

The only thing I'm trying to figure out about Rey is her being a pilot. I feel like there's a line in the movie similar to 'T-16 womp rats Beggar's Canyon' that I missed.

 

[PopeReal]

Better yet, we can just assume she is a genius prodigy at everything from now on whose magic will propel her through every situation and enemies of any amount of skill and training. Sure sounds exciting.

What Rey needed was to not be an urchin. If she had some believable reason for being trained in anything besides scavenging to any degree of competency everything but the mind trick would be much easier to swallow.

Ok.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

I think Finn overcoming the Stormtrooper conditioning because of a bit of blood and then being able to hit Ren with the saber despite being bested by a non-saber wielding trooper earlier was more of a stretch than anything Rey did.

What Rey needed was to not be an urchin. If she had some believable reason for being trained in anything besides scavenging to any degree of competency everything but the mind trick would be much easier to swallow.

Hey being a solo scavenger sets up her need to be able fight to defend what she claims, fly so that she can transport/escape with loot and barter so that she can trade. The mind trick comes from the interrogation/knowing of what jedi's can do.

 

[excelsiorlef]

The only thing I'm trying to figure out about Rey is her being a pilot. I feel like there's a line in the movie similar to 'T-16 womp rats Beggar's Canyon' that I missed.

She says she flues but just never left a planet. Incidentally all her best flying feats are on a planet.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

Didn't Luke also close his fucking eyes and let the force guide him to target properly? Ie made the shot blind with minimal force training?

Makes total sense though. Because he shot vermin back home sometimes.

But Rey? How the hell could she win a fight against a scared and injured man? She's only ever flailed her stick around, hoping it might hit someone.

 

[Frog-fu]

He sees her as competent, and after the whack Finn gave him, certainly isn't going to take chances. But he also had a lot of chances to hurt her and didn't. When Ren backs her up in a small ravine she has to climb up it and then over, and Ren twice just whacks the ground at her feet to keep her on the run. He could have taken her legs off on a whim. (Just got back from a showing, and was watching the fight very closely.)

I think he would see her as more as just competent considering she had just beaten him in control over the lightsaber. Especially considering it was the second time her Force powers proved stronger than his. I think saw her a real threat, one he had to either corrupt or destroy.

The way I saw it Ren was simply too slow to catch her until he had her backed up due to his injuries. He was still winning despite of them though.