Support NeoGAF

[Fbh]

This whole drama about a 1 time internet requirement seems so overblown.
Yes I wish games came complete on the disc and consoles worked 100% offline but we are way past that point. So many games launch with issues and are so much better after several patches, multiple big games this year won't even launch if you just have the disc and no internet, etc. There's so many bigger issues that this whole thing about a 1 time internet connection seems like drama just for the sake of it.

Are we seriously still talking about this

"But what IF in 20 years Sony servers are no longer available AND for some reason I want to play FFXVI 1.0 at 720p 45fps instead of the PC version or the port/backwards compatible version on a newer console AND I want to do so on a Ps5 slim that for some reason was literally never connected to the internet in 20 years"

 

[Putonahappyface]

The world isn't going back to physical media. Digital is what people buy, it's what they want.

Just get over it, it's the way the world works. It doesn't go backwards.

Not everyone and certainly not me!

 

[nial]

Nintendo is still a little different. They have the business drones in some of the leadership, but the ship is still largely run by people (Sakurai, Miyamoto, Aonuma, etc)

Sakurai has literally never worked in Nintendo.

 

[ZoukGalaxy]

I hear your concerns and absolutely share them, sadly, nothing will stop them to steal your ownership and resell you the same thing again and again because you won't have access to your old library, people have really short memories, they just consume blindly because "I DoN't cAr3 oLd m4N !"

Sony is really turning "bad" by doing this, I will not support it and it will change nothing. I'm not lying, the day digital and internet are mandatory for consoles, I will stop buying them and go the illegal way and get then at the end of the gen once fully hacked. Luckily my infinite backlog will save me with 10 years waiting list.

This is the world young gens are building right now and they have no sense of "preservation", it's an ephemeral world.

Is Sony going to build their own plants to produce the discs? Because by the time it's out those probably won't exist anymore either.

No need, they already own them. Sony is one of the founder of the Bluray disc/format and a member of the Blu-ray Disc Association.

Just wait until the PS6 and Next Xbox. Anyone who thinks a console is releasing with an optical drive in 2027/2028 is living in a dream world.

Your world is probably not longer than your nose then or a boat

Always amazed by people not seeing further than their local life and not understanding that fiber is not a "standard" in the 90% real world lefting

However for Xbox, I kinda agree, they obviously already leaving the physical market with Bluray with no data on it and it was not a secret that Xbox plan was always services since the very first Xbox, hence the name "a box for everything in your home".

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

The world isn't going back to physical media. Digital is what people buy, it's what they want.

Just get over it, it's the way the world works. It doesn't go backwards.

I will never be all digital

Games I play once and delete will always be on disk so I can trade it back in

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

You think you want that, but you really don't (Nintendo and Xbox sell digital cards in retailers).

But they’re still rrp. They should sell them like they do physical games or pc keys so there’s some price competition

 

[angrod14]

It's funny how people treat Nintendo as the "end-all, be-all" of old-school console gaming. I don't have a Nintendo online account yet the Switch constantly pushes me to create one and link it to my console. It doesn't even let me enter the store to merely look around without creating one. You want to play their retro games on current hardware? Suscribe, biatch. No way to purchase them, not even digitally.

 

[TheShocker]

What weird third world country do people live in to not have access to some kind of internet connection?

I can’t think of a situation where I would have nothing else to do in life other than play video games *AND* not have access to the internet.

And if this bothers you, stay away from PC gaming.

 

[Fake]

The world isn't going back to physical media. Digital is what people buy, it's what they want.

As usual people talking for themselves. lmao ignorance is a bless.

People was saying COVID sittuation would destroy physical media for good and here we are.

But please continue the trashtalking sir.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Click bait title. They say in their podcast, which is just their opinion, that they think it may be for other reasons as well. Linus thought the same as if may be something brought upon by other forces like movie studios.

Either way if someone is trying to spin up a negative slant then you know they don't have anything better to do.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

What weird third world country do people live in to not have access to some kind of internet connection?

I can’t think of a situation where I would have nothing else to do in life other than play video games *AND* not have access to the internet.

And if this bothers you, stay away from PC gaming.

 

[SenkiDala]

Isn’t it a legal thing? That it needs to connect to the internet for the keys? How don’t they know this?

Funny that they say it’s becoming like Xbox(lol) as a diss, that’s some aikido move by df.

It is.

Article 1201 from the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.

Those morons of DF are becoming dumber and dumber.

Also people, stop thinking like "huh how to do without internet" there is NO without internet in 99% of countries, you can AT LEAST turn on your smartphone and even with a shitty 3G signal it'll be enough to validate that certificate online within seconds. Stop being dramatic internet became like electricity, it's everywhere, it is mandatory in every society in the world. If you're in a country where there is no internet, then you're not reading this thread and buying a PS5 is the least of your problem.

 

[SenkiDala]

Yea, except the console makers will control 100% of the pricing in their walled garden.

How so ? You can buy digital cards for cheaper, with sales, all year long, since almost 2 decades.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Yea, except the console makers will control 100% of the pricing in their walled garden.

Lol wut?!

No they don't. Publishers control pricing of their games on XBL and PSN stores. And Sony merely asks for a 30% royalty on store transactions, same as every other PC storefront.

 

[ManaByte]

But they’re still rrp. They should sell them like they do physical games or pc keys so there’s some price competition

No they're not. People have posted in this thread where you can get the cards cheaper than retail.

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

Sakurai has literally never worked in Nintendo.

A bit of a pointless distinction to make in this case. His entire career has been developing Nintendo exclusives for their primary franchises, and he's one of the developers who has a big hand in setting the distinctive tone for Nintendo compared to other gaming companies. He's also a development advocate of an interesting kind with his regular online posts and commentary.

The thing is, when you read the interviews (Iwata Asks series above all, but even the continued interviews that have followed that style) you immediately get the sense that Nintendo's leadership has usually run by elevating developers to be almost like gurus that stand even above the official leadership. They are in awe of the creators, genuinely (Iwata certainly was; perhaps it's a little lessened now but not noticeably yet).

Iwata/Nintendo essentially poured money into allowing Sakura to hire a ton of staff and develop Smash with full support and freedom, and Iwata gushed over Sakurai as the reason Nintendo put full faith and funding into him almost like Sakurai's development unit represents an honorary division of Nintendo:

My decision to pursue the project [Smash Bros] in this way rested on one point and one point alone, and it is deeply tied to the fact that I have the utmost faith in a man named Masahiro Sakurai. To state it simply, you are capable of taking a project with nothing and visualizing a completed game almost perfectly in your head. As I mentioned earlier, you and I have a long history working together at HAL Laboratory. When involved on the same project, you were able to point out the smallest details even when the product had yet to take shape. The details were so small and so specific that, as a programmer, I thought there was no way you could know what you knew without actually trying it first. As the game progressed and took shape, however, it was clear that we needed to address the details in just the way you had described. So I would ask “did you really know this right from the start?” I mean, this was over ten years ago, but I remember you said you did and I thought to myself “is this guy for real?” As it happened over and over again, however, I had little choice but to believe you. I don’t know how, but you’re able to visualise a game right down to its very details, as if the finished game is working inside your mind. If not, how else could you have been right so many times?

Even now, Masahiro Sakurai, of all the people that I know, you especially can readily form an image of how a game will look when finished. That’s why I knew that you would be capable of putting together the ideas of the talented staff around you. If you don’t have a person like that pulling together different ideas, you need a lot of trust within the team or the project will not go anywhere. When a project has just begun, it’s natural for directions to come from a vague concept of the product. It’s natural for there to be revisions and twists and turns, and as this continues, the project becomes something different than it was at the start. This is not necessarily a bad thing and happens all the time when designing games. However, this only works because of the trust built up from the past of a long working relationship. That’s why it was so unusual to recruit outside staff solely for the purpose of making such a large-scale game. Yet it was exactly this type of thinking on which I was betting our success.

I don't get this kind of feeling from the leadership of Sony/MS. They have always felt deeply cynical and transactional to their core, like pure businessmen for whom gaming just happens to be lucrative at the moment but they'd as happily drop it for something else if they sensed an advantage.

 

[ReBurn]

Click bait title. They say in their podcast, which is just their opinion, that they think it may be for other reasons as well. Linus thought the same as if may be something brought upon by other forces like movie studios.

Either way if someone is trying to spin up a negative slant then you know they don't have anything better to do.

I watched the LTT video. Linus doesn't know any more about the requirement than anyone else. He's just speculating. If it's a movie industry thing then that's an easy cop out and hopefully Sony says as much. But that's not what the back of the MW3 bundle box says. The box says it is to pair the drive to the console.

For a collector like Linneman it's a negative that at least one online check is required on this new model, otherwise it is impossible to play games on it. If someone keeps one new in box for a few decades and it can't play games I wonder what that would do to the value? That won't affect me, I don't care about the check. But I can see why Linneman would.

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

No they're not. People have posted in this thread where you can get the cards cheaper than retail.

All full price in my region. And available at limited places with very limited game selection. Not anywhere near the same as physical availability and price competition

 

[DanielG165]

It’s funny, as despite PCs having been all digital for 10 years or more now, it still feels like the most “free” and choice driven platform of them all. That’s because you’re not tied down to just one service or market; you can practically download and get your games from anywhere. You essentially have full control over them from the moment they hit your files, and can dictate how they operate, how they play, what’s in them via mods etc.

I love my Xbox, PlayStation, and Switch all for their relative ease of use, but they are all walled gardens at the end of the day. For video games, and practically anything else, PC is like the nirvana of that experience. As an amateur photographer, it’s like comparing the camera systems on smartphones to full frame cameras. The phone will produce images that are good enough for most people, and are idiot proof/super easy; just point and shoot and boom. Whereas the full frame camera will be inherently more versatile and freeing, and allow you more control and choice, as well as a higher quality end result.

 

[StereoVsn]

It is.

Article 1201 from the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.

Those morons of DF are becoming dumber and dumber.

Also people, stop thinking like "huh how to do without internet" there is NO without internet in 99% of countries, you can AT LEAST turn on your smartphone and even with a shitty 3G signal it'll be enough to validate that certificate online within seconds. Stop being dramatic internet became like electricity, it's everywhere, it is mandatory in every society in the world. If you're in a country where there is no internet, then you're not reading this thread and buying a PS5 is the least of your problem.

This has nothing to do with physically requiring hardware check to a Blu-Ray. What is required is the cert key update to playback blu-ray movies (or other media). Games don't have to have it technically if all they are doing is installing to disk (which they are).

 

[Moriarty1889]

Sony has dominated so easily these last few gens and now they want to copy Xbox………..wtf???
This makes no sense whatsoever. Services and required online for devices or games is total rubbish imo. Playstation was the one console you could always count on for offline sp games and experiences. Now that seems it will come to an end with this GAAS online required shite they want to indulge in. Gaming is changing for the worse in terms of ownership and game preservation. These companies don’t give a shit about you and want the maximum amount of profit with the least amount of effort. Services and subs replacing offline gaming and unique fun experiences. There are plenty of sheep who will lineup and take whatever these companies put out. Vote with your wallets. Don’t just accept crap and give up your right to choice as a gamer. When these greedy companies start to see reduction in profits and people not buying into their shitty ecosystems is when they will start working harder to give gamers more for their hard earned money. They need us a lot more than we need them.

 

[SportsFan581]

You think you want that, but you really don't (Nintendo and Xbox sell digital cards in retailers).

Yeah, anyone that hints at that hasn't thought about what that would mean for affordable, subsidized hardware. Like you said though, what Nintendo and MS are doing completely erases the credibility of the entire argument. FTC wouldn't have a leg to stand on if they tried it.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I would love for Sony/Nintendo to go the way if Microsoft. There are backwards compatible games I bought 14-15 years ago on the 360 that I can still play on my series x today.

Meanwhile my Wii, Wiiu, 3DS digital purchases are vapor now. Sony went cloud based for some BC and that IMO is an inferior solution.

To be fair Native BC is probably the best option. That's if your looking for close to 100% BC with no strings attached.

 

[Nydius]

You think you want that, but you really don't (Nintendo and Xbox sell digital cards in retailers).

Okay? That has no bearing on the fact that they're still walled gardens and that Nintendo and Microsoft dictate the terms of the pricing of those cards.

The FTC should absolutely be involved in tearing down these anti-competitive walled gardens because they are, at their core, monopolistic. Oh sure, you can buy a code for the game on, say, Amazon, but they're only a licensed third party reseller of the keys whose prices are determined by, and can only be redeemed on, the walled garden it's being sold for.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

Couldn't it be for security reasons

And what about our security of purchase?

If I buy something I want security it will keep on working.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Not everyone and certainly not me!

Just googled it. What the hell, Scrooged and Trading Places 4k are supposed to release Tuesday?!

 

[wolffy66]

As usual people talking for themselves. lmao ignorance is a bless.

People was saying COVID sittuation would destroy physical media for good and here we are.

But please continue the trashtalking sir.

The results speak for themselves. It's all going that way and that's why this thread exists. It is what it is.

 

[rofif]

This whole drama about a 1 time internet requirement seems so overblown.
Yes I wish games came complete on the disc and consoles worked 100% offline but we are way past that point. So many games launch with issues and are so much better after several patches, multiple big games this year won't even launch if you just have the disc and no internet, etc. There's so many bigger issues that this whole thing about a 1 time internet connection seems like drama just for the sake of it.



"But what IF in 20 years Sony servers are no longer available AND for some reason I want to play FFXVI 1.0 at 720p 45fps instead of the PC version or the port/backwards compatible version on a newer console AND I want to do so on a Ps5 slim that for some reason was literally never connected to the internet in 20 years"

But 85% of games do come complete on disc and work fully offline

 

[sinnergy]

So who here has no internet in 2023? A horse can also take you everywhere, instead of a car.

 

[Fabieter]

The world isn't going back to physical media. Digital is what people buy, it's what they want.

Just get over it, it's the way the world works. It doesn't go backwards.

I would wish that we as human wouldn't go backwards all the time.

But why the fuck is it a problem for other people to have options.

 

[Flutta]

The world isn't going back to physical media. Digital is what people buy, it's what they want.

Just get over it, it's the way the world works. It doesn't go backwards.

Bullshit. There’s a big chunk of people who still enjoy physical media.

Why are digital only owners so damn obsessed with wanting to convert people to their way of consuming entertainment? Get a life.

 

[demigod]

PC software hasn't been produced on discs for YEARS. Best Buy is stopping physical movie sales this year. There's only one disc replication plant in all of North America. By 2027/2028 consoles will be all digital like PCs have been for a decade.

I’ll bet you a ps6 it won’t be.

 

[Fabieter]

Bullshit. There’s a big chunk of people who still enjoy physical media.

Why are digital only owners so damn obsessed with wanting to convert people to their way of consuming entertainment? Get a life.

I also buy digital but it reads like buyer remorse or something. Its insane why they care so much about a digital only future.

 

[Famipan]

I think planned obsolence is also a part when it comes to quality of controllers and not providing dead zone settings for DualSense joysticks on PS5 (possible on PC in Steam)

And when the rumor spreads about how fast it might get drift, and how bad battery lasts, and the fact DS4 isn’t supported on PS5-games on PS5 (but on PC) —some people complain a little but in the long run most people buys MORE new DualSense controllers to secure that they can always play on PS5.

I think controllers has a very high profit margin but Xbox simple but still expensive controllers is probably on another level when it comes to profit. And they know how to always come up with new flashy colors. Much profit in just selling controllers.

With that being said, games costs a lot more to make these days and Sony wouldn’t make sell games if they couldn’t earn profit on physical hardware.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

This whole drama about a 1 time internet requirement seems so overblown.
Yes I wish games came complete on the disc and consoles worked 100% offline but we are way past that point. So many games launch with issues and are so much better after several patches, multiple big games this year won't even launch if you just have the disc and no internet, etc. There's so many bigger issues that this whole thing about a 1 time internet connection seems like drama just for the sake of it.

Yep - remember when Spiderman 2 was announced as being playable from beginning to end from the disc and everyone celebrated?

It's unfortunate that patches are a thing, because it basically means that there's no hard stop for development time like there would have been in the past. But those days are long gone.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

I think controllers has a very high profit margin but Xbox simple but still expensive controllers is probably on another level when it comes to profit

There'll be barely any difference in the profit margins. The components in all controllers aren't expensive. The price of the controller is not based on profit margins, it's based on what the market will pay.

 

[WitchHunter]

Sure buddy.

If one company releases a digital only console the other company can release one with a drive and has a huge advantage from fans of physical media.

I find It funny that nobody thinks about this and that there's only one way that both companies will release digital only consoles.

If both really do this what's the point playing on console. More and more people Switch to PC gaming. Cheaper game prices and free online gaming.

If both companies really do this I'm also switching completely to PC gaming.

I'm not really sure these big companies can do whatever they want. There is the proverbial invisible hand that guides those head corpo people... ... ...

 

[Mr Reasonable]

If one company releases a digital only console the other company can release one with a drive and has a huge advantage from fans of physical media.

I find It funny that nobody thinks about this and that there's only one way that both companies will release digital only consoles.

That is an interesting thought, I imagine that all manufacturers are looking at the digital /physical split and will make the jump once enough of their customers are buying digital.

I'm not sure where that percentage is but I would imagine that we'll pass it before next Gen on all platforms, if we haven't already. I think that'll be the limit of the discussion.

As for the fans of physical media all jumping ship - if Sony go digital only I don't see Neogaf switching to Xbox.

 

[BootsLoader]

I am scared from the "all digital future". I don't want to stop gaming.

 

[Mr.ODST]

If I can buy digital keys like I do for pc I'll go all digital. Picked robo cop up for 25 quid on steam. But, I'm not paying 70 squid for a digital single player with no multi that I can complete in a weekend.

Why i but most multiplats on Xbox cause CDKeys or key sites save me £10-30 on launch

 

[Fess]

Well as long as they still put out physical media and handhelds, I'm good. But yeah, eventually Nintendo will probably do the same shit...

Aren’t there already Switch games where half the data is on the cartridge and the rest is downloaded?

 

[Kenpachii]

DF realized internet is a thing in 2023.

If u can buy a PS5 but have no internet, i dunno what to tell you lol.

We aint living in the 90's anymore.

 

[DoctorEkkoUK]

Yea, except the console makers will control 100% of the pricing in their walled garden.

It won't be long until PC gamers are in the same boat with Windows 12 set to become more of a walled garden. Our only hope will be Linux gaming.

 

[Putonahappyface]

Just googled it. What the hell, Scrooged and Trading Places 4k are supposed to release Tuesday?!

People got it even earlier from Zavvi.

 

[ManaByte]

Why i but most multiplats on Xbox cause CDKeys or key sites save me £10-30 on launch

But people are saying Nintendo and Xbox dictate the price of those key cards.

 

[Mr.ODST]

But people are saying Nintendo and Xbox dictate the price of those key cards.

Literally got COD MW3 for £30 after discount for Series X same with Lord of Fallen it was £35

 

[King Dazzar]

Whilst physical is becoming more niche. I have over 400 4k blu-ray discs and I'm seeing lots of stuff still being released. For the first time there's even Disney series coming up for release too. But for gaming my choice has been digital, but I still get the disc drive console to have options.

However, the one thing that does need to be addressed is the anti consumer lack of competition in the digital store, at its worst on PlayStation. That and allowing refunds should be mandatory. I wish the class action well. But really there should already be trading protection bodies doing something about it too. All retailers should be allowed to sell digital keys for games. By all means allow game codes to be region locked, but allow everyone to sell them. If PlayStation and/or Xbox dont make that so, then it should be put in law. Its been allowed to go on for too long.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

I recently got myself a fibre connection. Hell they even have 4 gigabyte speeds available to consumers now.

 

[ProtoByte]

This online-DRM being required by law is ridiculous, and a nice screen of plausible deniability for Sony.

The PS5 Pro should have a built in drive...

 

[NEbeast]

Exactly. People always scream "BUT PC IS DIGITAL FOR 20 YEARS !!!"
Well listen - pc is an open market. Tons of stores, key resellers, ways to get games and then on top of that you have FULL access to your files, can crack, mod the game or play any patch version you want.
On consoles? None of that. With disc, you at least get retailers pricing each other out, used market, ownership and can play 1.0 elden ring for example.

Using robo cop as an example is misleading, it might aswell be an indie game. Its absolute crap, no wonder it's cheap.