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[Elixist]

What do you mean "new way of doing the animation"?

I just mean the hand drawn art tech they're using instead of the pixel art, I think it would make a new Darkstalkers look fantastic.

 

[LowParry]

I just mean the hand drawn art tech they're using instead of the pixel art, I think it would make a new Darkstalkers look fantastic.

Sadly, those days are gone. Embrace the 2.5D.

 

[From The Dust]

I just mean the hand drawn art tech they're using instead of the pixel art, I think it would make a new Darkstalkers look fantastic.

Isn't that still a sprite though? I feel like I'm getting my terminology mixed up here

 

[danmaku]

In one of the videos, Mike Z says that the game actually runs on a 3D engine, but with 2D objects. So I guess they can't be considered sprites.

 

[From The Dust]

In one of the videos, Mike Z says that the game actually runs on a 3D engine, but with 2D objects. So I guess they can't be considered sprites.

So it's like Paper Mario then. Animated textures on planes

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

Sadly, those days are gone. Embrace the 2.5D.

It's only gone for the EA of Japan and weaklings.

2D fans don't need to compromise and accept polygon jank, they need only support developers that deliver the goods.

 

[From The Dust]

It's only gone for the EA of Japan and weaklings.

2D fans don't need to compromise and accept polygon jank, they need only support developers that deliver the goods.

Capcom ain't one of them now. All that's left are these guys, and Arc Systems and.... I guess that's it

 

[discoalucard]

In one of the videos, Mike Z says that the game actually runs on a 3D engine, but with 2D objects. So I guess they can't be considered sprites.

Isn't that the way most 2D games are displayed nowadays? The sprites are just textures drawn on 2D polygons.

 

[SAB CA]

Isn't it the same method used by Muramasa (and all Vanillaware games)?

Yeah, sometimes I hate the term "sprite" because I know I wanna use it as "Pixel art image!" Which doesn't keep in line with it's Full meaning.

Let me correct that:

• Characters in Skullgirls are hand-drawn animation. They're drawn at twice the resolution, then scaled down. Similiar to traditional 2D animation for movies. There's a bunch of animators drawing the 1400 or so frames of animation (believe that was the number mentioned) per character.
  
• Traditional fighting game animation (Such as old Street Fighter, Vs series, KoF old and new) uses pixel art. Generally, a low-resolution, dot-by-dot art style. Like what you see Here. Time consuming, but produces very well animated results generally, but normally not as sharp as is desired now-a-days.
  
• Vanillaware's stuff is more of a puppeteer type thing; They're hand-painted 2D parts that are put together to make characters, on a skeleton (like the skels they use to animate 3D models). Similiar to what was done for Rumble Fish, or the old Gundam: The Battlemaster games. Thes bits and pieces are drawn at high resolution, and can be scaled up and down easily, making them a lot nicer to use than pixel work (which scales horribly), since you can kinda build characters in a "Mr. Potato Head" fashion.

Skullgirls WAS using the Pixel art method not long ago (You can find loads of there old pixel sprites all over the net), but is no uber "hand drawn". I'd love it if the game offered a choice of using pixel sprites too (I'd smile!), but it's pretty cool they've chosen this method.

 

[viewtiful_dru]

Love how this thread did a total 180 compared to the beginning.

Anyway, I was sold on the game after I tried out the build at last year's EVO. It's good shit.

 

[sixteen-bit]

I just saw the new footage on the BBVlog youtube account
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgtJy7wrAuQ

Game looks like a lot of fun. Holy shit at that last combo.

 

[danmaku]

holy shit indeed!

I hope they put more proration on combos, or something else to fix it. It may be difficult to do, but a 70% damage combo is a bit too much imho.

I just noticed that when you do an infinite, not only the opponent gets a free burst, you also do no damage at all after the first loop. The engine looks really solid.

 

[MThanded]

I really love the game mechanics but I really hate the character design. I am torn.

 

[sixteen-bit]

holy shit indeed!

I hope they put more proration on combos, or something else to fix it. It may be difficult to do, but a 70% damage combo is a bit too much imho.

I just noticed that when you do an infinite, not only the opponent gets a free burst, you also do no damage at all after the first loop. The engine looks really solid.

I don't know, considering the amount of meters that combo took (6?), 70% on just one of your two characters seems fine to me. It would be interesting to see how they tweak it.

 

[Oldschoolgamer]

The game mechanics are truly something special. The game looks fun too.

 

[LowParry]

It's only gone for the EA of Japan and weaklings.

2D fans don't need to compromise and accept polygon jank, they need only support developers that deliver the goods.

I agree, but I was just strictly talking about Capcom and the Darkstalkers talk. It's bound to be made on the SF4 engine.

 

[Dartastic]

So, the developers have a website up. I went to it, and there's a picture of n3ss near the bottom of the page looking really creepy between Mike-Z and Seth. It's pretty hilarious. I was off drunk somewhere. Hah.

http://revergelabs.com/

...you can also sorta see A-Rival's arm behind Mike holding a solo cup. Extra hilarious.

Edit - they also have a FB page. http://www.facebook.com/skullgirls

 

[Gin]

i watched a few videos.

not really feeling this game much.. =/

 

[SciencePilot]

Ooh, cool video on this page. First time I've watched this game in motion.

Hate the character design and art (and it's not because they're anime girls: see avatar). Overall though, I say the game looks good because the animation is great and the colors are pleasant. Static backgrounds, though.

 

[akachan ningen]

Who wants to bet that mike z made the grappler the best character in the game?

 

[sixteen-bit]

Who wants to bet that mike z made the grappler the best character in the game?

real soviet bias.

She looks extremely versatile.

 

[depths20XX]

Fighting system looks really great. I'm usually not put off by character design in a fighting game but holy shit it's bad in this one.

Hopefully they clean up the UI too. The fonts they are using look like placeholders.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

I agree, but I was just strictly talking about Capcom and the Darkstalkers talk. It's bound to be made on the SF4 engine.

Or bound to not be made at all.

Skullgirls is looking good. Watched the preview video from NorCal Install.

 

[From The Dust]

Or bound to not be made at all.

or bound to be made...in 3D!!! D:

I actually like some of the character designs. especially Cerebella

 

[NotebookJ2]

I just saw the new footage on the BBVlog youtube account
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgtJy7wrAuQ

Game looks like a lot of fun. Holy shit at that last combo.

Oh wow, that is very impressive.

 

[FreedomFrisbee]

Yeah, sometimes I hate the term "sprite" because I know I wanna use it as "Pixel art image!" Which doesn't keep in line with it's Full meaning.

Let me correct that:

• Characters in Skullgirls are hand-drawn animation. They're drawn at twice the resolution, then scaled down. Similiar to traditional 2D animation for movies. There's a bunch of animators drawing the 1400 or so frames of animation (believe that was the number mentioned) per character.
  
• Traditional fighting game animation (Such as old Street Fighter, Vs series, KoF old and new) uses pixel art. Generally, a low-resolution, dot-by-dot art style. Like what you see Here. Time consuming, but produces very well animated results generally, but normally not as sharp as is desired now-a-days.
  
• Vanillaware's stuff is more of a puppeteer type thing; They're hand-painted 2D parts that are put together to make characters, on a skeleton (like the skels they use to animate 3D models). Similiar to what was done for Rumble Fish, or the old Gundam: The Battlemaster games. Thes bits and pieces are drawn at high resolution, and can be scaled up and down easily, making them a lot nicer to use than pixel work (which scales horribly), since you can kinda build characters in a "Mr. Potato Head" fashion.

Just to correct a little, HD fighters including Guilty Gear, BlazBlue, and KOF12+13 all use the draw it big, shrink it down method (and even use some 3d model tracing to assist). There are art books out there that document it. Truthfully, I'm not sure why they leave it all non-smoothed (giving it the pixel art look). It really wouldn't be hard for them to use vectors like in skull girls. KOF has the excuse of good shading, but BlazBlue has shading that would be conducive to vectors. Maybe its a processing thing, what with the giant sprites and 3d backgrounds.

 

[From The Dust]

Yeah, sometimes I hate the term "sprite" because I know I wanna use it as "Pixel art image!" Which doesn't keep in line with it's Full meaning.

Let me correct that:

• Characters in Skullgirls are hand-drawn animation. They're drawn at twice the resolution, then scaled down. Similiar to traditional 2D animation for movies. There's a bunch of animators drawing the 1400 or so frames of animation (believe that was the number mentioned) per character.
  
• Traditional fighting game animation (Such as old Street Fighter, Vs series, KoF old and new) uses pixel art. Generally, a low-resolution, dot-by-dot art style. Like what you see Here. Time consuming, but produces very well animated results generally, but normally not as sharp as is desired now-a-days.
  
• Vanillaware's stuff is more of a puppeteer type thing; They're hand-painted 2D parts that are put together to make characters, on a skeleton (like the skels they use to animate 3D models). Similiar to what was done for Rumble Fish, or the old Gundam: The Battlemaster games. Thes bits and pieces are drawn at high resolution, and can be scaled up and down easily, making them a lot nicer to use than pixel work (which scales horribly), since you can kinda build characters in a "Mr. Potato Head" fashion.

Skullgirls WAS using the Pixel art method not long ago (You can find loads of there old pixel sprites all over the net), but is no uber "hand drawn". I'd love it if the game offered a choice of using pixel sprites too (I'd smile!), but it's pretty cool they've chosen this method.

I always use sprite when refering to pretty much anything that's 2D and not Paper Mario style. would that still be incorrect terminology though?

 

[SAB CA]

Just to correct a little, HD fighters including Guilty Gear, BlazBlue, and KOF12+13 all use the draw it big, shrink it down method (and even use some 3d model tracing to assist). There are art books out there that document it. Truthfully, I'm not sure why they leave it all non-smoothed (giving it the pixel art look). It really wouldn't be hard for them to use vectors like in skull girls. KOF has the excuse of good shading, but BlazBlue has shading that would be conducive to vectors. Maybe its a processing thing, what with the giant sprites and 3d backgrounds.

But KoF is still Pixel work; it's not shrunken down, it's actually blown UP to fit the resolutions it's at. The sprite size you see in 13's chara select are actually the REAL sprite size. What you see in gameplay is being upscaled. In KoF XII, the characters were zoomed in an odd amount for the initial gameplay close up, and then the "best" resolution came up when the action zoomed out. (this is a really odd idea, lol)

They do "trace" basic 3D models for initial keyframes (as is documented out there), but all the methods after that (the dithered shading, the per-pixel animation details, gradient ramp shades, etc) are pure pixel art methods. No diff than Capcom tracing hand-drawn animation for X-men COTA or Darkstalkers.

I avoid speaking of GG/Blazblue, since it seems to be a bit confusing as to how they're made. I DO remember them in the past (GG), speaking of the Hand-drawn, non-pixel-art, vector-drawing-based sprites, but BB's stuff, if you zoom in a LOT, looks like spritework. I still think BB's art is probably scaled art myself, but without real proof (can't find any documentation of their methods now!), I cannot say...

I know why KoF doesn't do the scaled up handdrawn art (they like the gritty "pencil shaded" look of Pixel art; they think it defines their style, and I agree!), but yeah, suprised others haven't. I believe Wario Land SHAKE on Wii did this, but it's an odd man out. I always figure it has something to do with a combo of Final file output size, efficency, and workload on the artist...

I always use sprite when refering to pretty much anything that's 2D and not Paper Mario style. would that still be incorrect terminology though?

I believe you can still call those sprites, actually. When 2D images are spewed out for particle effects in 3D, those are still considered to be sprites as well if I remember right. So a 2D image on a flat, forward-facing poly should still be considered as such.

Personal preference, I wouldn't even call Pre-rendered stuff like the Killer Instinct, or Donkey Kong Country characters "sprites", since it's such a different method than "pixel" or "dot" art.

------

At any rate though, I like the method they're using in Skullgirls. This is what I EXPECTED from HD 2D in the first place (though I prefer pixels!), and I still don't know why it's so rare. I'd love to see AIC, GONZO, or Gainix getting their animators into doing stuff like this for games more often.

 

[FreedomFrisbee]

But KoF is still Pixel work; it's not shrunken down, it's actually blown UP to fit the resolutions it's at. The sprite size you see in 13's chara select are actually the REAL sprite size. What you see in gameplay is being upscaled. In KoF XII, the characters were zoomed in an odd amount for the initial gameplay close up, and then the "best" resolution came up when the action zoomed out. (this is a really odd idea, lol)

I know what you mean sir, but that isn't what I meant. I meant prior to the drawing of the sprites, they drew the animations and color layouts at a larger size, and then shrunk them down to fit whatever sprite resolution they needed. Then from there they resized the sprites.

http://www.ecrater.com/p/9304785/guilty-gear-x-drafting-artworks-jpn

That book in particular illustrates the process.

 

[Slamtastic]

Watch Capcom hire the anime company from the SSFIV stuff to do this for 3SOE.

Spoiler

lol smiley goes here

 

[Frank "Trashman" Reynolds]

Looks good. Did they ever announce a release date?

 

[bluemax]

So, the developers have a website up. I went to it, and there's a picture of n3ss near the bottom of the page looking really creepy between Mike-Z and Seth. It's pretty hilarious. I was off drunk somewhere. Hah.

http://revergelabs.com/

...you can also sorta see A-Rival's arm behind Mike holding a solo cup. Extra hilarious.

Edit - they also have a FB page. http://www.facebook.com/skullgirls

Woah what the shit, these guys are just down the street from me. That makes two games studios on that street that I previously had no idea existed.

 

[SAB CA]

I know what you mean sir, but that isn't what I meant. I meant prior to the drawing of the sprites, they drew the animations and color layouts at a larger size, and then shrunk them down to fit whatever sprite resolution they needed. Then from there they resized the sprites.

http://www.ecrater.com/p/9304785/guilty-gear-x-drafting-artworks-jpn

That book in particular illustrates the process.

Ahhh, you're speaking of the pre-spriting process. I just focused on the "resize the sprites" term, since that doesn't happen specifically (the sprite art itself isn't resized, it's made at particular resolutions). But I understand what you mean.

(Nice link too; I'll have to snag that book sometimes!)

For pixel work, it's because more size = much more work, as SNKP mentiones here. For things that are basically straight drawing, yeah, it is a bit weird. I personally wonder why more Japanese companies don't follow the examples of, say, Castle Crasher or Wakfu style "Flash" vector art, which seems to take the strengths of Flash art, and traditional animation, and roll them into one.

Watch Capcom hire the anime company from the SSFIV stuff to do this for 3SOE.

Spoiler

lol smiley goes here

I'd applaud their creativity... then realise it's THAT groups style, and everything would grow a bit bitter. :lol:

Looks good. Did they ever announce a release date?

No date, just those nebulous "This Summer!" kinda stuff, as seen on Skullgirls.com. I wanna believe! XD

 

[Slamtastic]

I'd applaud their creativity... then realise it's THAT groups style, and everything would grow a bit bitter. :lol:

Who would you personally pick?

(Assuming the limitations of being an anime company and doing it in "drawn" instead of "pixeled" style, so no ASW/SNK)

 

[Dizzy-4U]

I'm so hyped for this. Plus, having actual GGPO makes me dream about finally being able to play against people from the US and Europe. Can't wait!

 

[n3ss]

So, the developers have a website up. I went to it, and there's a picture of n3ss near the bottom of the page looking really creepy between Mike-Z and Seth. It's pretty hilarious. I was off drunk somewhere. Hah.

http://revergelabs.com/

...you can also sorta see A-Rival's arm behind Mike holding a solo cup. Extra hilarious.

Edit - they also have a FB page. http://www.facebook.com/skullgirls

Ha, such a hilarious picture; epic conversation that night too, this game is FUN! BUY IT PEOPLE

 

[SAB CA]

Who would you personally pick?

(Assuming the limitations of being an anime company and doing it in "drawn" instead of "pixeled" style, so no ASW/SNK)

Well, I guess I should be fair, the Super Stuff was much better than the SFIV stuff. They'd probably do a great Job after developing over that amount of actual animated work.

I'd also be pretty interested to see what Studio Bones could do. Every time I look at Scar in Full Metal Alchemist (especially Pre-Brotherhood), he makes me think of a Capcom style character design... I think they'd do a great job at bring Capcom's works to high quality animated life.

 

[Slamtastic]

Actually I think choice of studio would kinda pointless.

It's mostly Korean grunt work, right?

The studio mostly comes up with the style and designs and such which already exist from the original 3S materials and game.

And if they need a director type figure for the art, Ikeno is still right there at Capcom.

 

[SAB CA]

Actually I think choice of studio would kinda pointless.

It's mostly Korean grunt work, right?

The studio mostly comes up with the style and designs and such which already exist from the original 3S materials and game.

And if they need a director type figure for the art, Ikeno is still right there at Capcom.

Well, they all have their standards of quality, certain effects and situations (like fight scenes, 360 degree pans, dynamic angles, secondary animation, etc) they excel at, and varying degrees of consistency and quality on a per-episode, or even sometimes per-scene basis. So it's not like the choice of studio is arbitraty; each company and group of people the work is outsources to, could produce very differnt results.

Also, when it comes to character design, differnet studios have different "go to" people that they use for adapting the artwork of the source artist (like the Manga-ka of various series) into a similiar style that is manageable and cost-effective for the animation studio, and that works in animation.

 

[CadetMahoney]

I'm so hyped for this. Plus, having actual GGPO makes me dream about finally being able to play against people from the US and Europe. Can't wait!

Is it true this has ggpo netcode?

It's kinda useless if we don't have a ping gauge though. In early KOF 2k2 um on Live they had a ping gauge but was replaced with colored bars and you couldn't tell fuck all from it when before you had a good idea if the ping was good.

 

[Galdelico]

BUY IT PEOPLE

I will, man, 0.00001 seconds after the game is out.
I loved Alex' artwork since the very first time I saw his stuff on deviantArt... I'm talking about years ago, when Skullgirls was just an idea and a bunch of sketches and (apparently) random pinups.

It's great the project went so far. When I watched the first trailer I remember I felt proper pleased and excited I will eventually able to play this game.

 

[Ravidrath]

Is it true this has ggpo netcode?

Yup.

It's not "based on" or "inspired by," it's the real deal, paid license and everything.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Yup.

It's not "based on" or "inspired by," it's the real deal, paid license and everything.

That's great to hear!

 

[Dartastic]

Ha, such a hilarious picture; epic conversation that night too, this game is FUN! BUY IT PEOPLE

Yeah, that was a hella fun night. My hangover the next day? NOT SO FUN.

Yup.

It's not "based on" or "inspired by," it's the real deal, paid license and everything.

Yeah, this is the truth. The game uses GGPO FOR REAL. Mike said he put the code in himself and everything. It's legit.

 

[Ravidrath]

Whiteboard art!

http://revergelabs.com/2011/03/whiteboard-wednesday/

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Yeah, sometimes I hate the term "sprite" because I know I wanna use it as "Pixel art image!" Which doesn't keep in line with it's Full meaning.

Let me correct that:

• Characters in Skullgirls are hand-drawn animation. They're drawn at twice the resolution, then scaled down. Similiar to traditional 2D animation for movies. There's a bunch of animators drawing the 1400 or so frames of animation (believe that was the number mentioned) per character.
  
• Traditional fighting game animation (Such as old Street Fighter, Vs series, KoF old and new) uses pixel art. Generally, a low-resolution, dot-by-dot art style. Like what you see Here. Time consuming, but produces very well animated results generally, but normally not as sharp as is desired now-a-days.
  
• Vanillaware's stuff is more of a puppeteer type thing; They're hand-painted 2D parts that are put together to make characters, on a skeleton (like the skels they use to animate 3D models). Similiar to what was done for Rumble Fish, or the old Gundam: The Battlemaster games. Thes bits and pieces are drawn at high resolution, and can be scaled up and down easily, making them a lot nicer to use than pixel work (which scales horribly), since you can kinda build characters in a "Mr. Potato Head" fashion.

Skullgirls WAS using the Pixel art method not long ago (You can find loads of there old pixel sprites all over the net), but is no uber "hand drawn". I'd love it if the game offered a choice of using pixel sprites too (I'd smile!), but it's pretty cool they've chosen this method.

Pixel art just isn't feasible anymore. Going the hand-drawn animation route is much cheaper and easier. The only thing more feasible that is going 2.5D since there are more 3D animators wiling to work on games.

 

[From The Dust]

Whiteboard art!

http://revergelabs.com/2011/03/whiteboard-wednesday/

DAWN!

and Morrgan!

 

[TheOGB]

Whiteboard art!

http://revergelabs.com/2011/03/whiteboard-wednesday/

MacD.O.K. and MoeD.O.K.

aww shit

 

[sixteen-bit]

Sqig-lei and Katamari cousin are funny too

 

[shaowebb]

Smooth animation, but a very bizarre concept for a fighter. From the alpha test runs of the game it looks like it's a tag oriented fighter, but it the alpha has a few key flaws that I think will hinder it's intensity as a fighter.

• Block stun recovery after throwing a move seems pretty terrible. I'm seeing a lot of people in a corner in no danger at all from combos.
• Dash's don't cover too much distance and the characters take up too little of the screen. This means a lot of your game is likely being spent chasing or running. By narrowing down the screen size's framing on this game they could force a more intense fight.
• Doesn't look like there is anything being enhanced by the tag system. No team combos, no crossover attacks, no assists....nothing. There is not a lot of point to making a fighter a tag battle if it doesn't do anything more than lengthen a battle into a marathon. The point of tag battles is team building and there should be combo setups, and/or team moves and combos added when this is a feature.
• Doesn't look very fast on the combos. Seriously, some of those basic moves looked to have a LOT of frames in them. Shave your frame lengths on the animation to speed it up or try to increase your game speed to compensate if this would hurt your animation quality too much.Fighters have to be intense and this one is too slow. Add in again that its a tag battle game and its WAY too long to finish a match. Also these characters have some insane health. I've fought in SRPG battles that took less time than the double digit length match I saw in that alpha.
• Add some form of pushblock. Seriously. All these girls seem to fight with their hair and this is giving them ENORMOUS range and zoning potential. That means a lot of cornering will and already IS happening. Without Pushblock this game will be less about depth of skill and more about who lands the first hit.

And that's it. It has potential but it NEEDS polish on it's playstyle to make it hype worthy. Till then, I'll only watch this game's updates out of idle curiosity. We'll see if any legitimate interest gets peaked by me about this game if they ever address what I mentioned.