Support NeoGAF

[Kjellson]

I finally learned how to deal with situations like these...

You should have done something this one instead, lololol:

 

[crustikid]

I red all your post visualizing Kubrick lecturing it

 

[Interficium]

Saw gamespot review score.

Immediately went to gamefaqs forum.

I was not disappoint.

 

[Caelus]

Re calibrate for combat? That never happens, the only time you have to calibrate is when you are aiming. The reason why you have to do it is because the WM+ recognizes the position you first entered "aiming" mode as the center. So if you enter the mode with the Wiimote on the far right, guess what? you are going to have to calibrate again to get the position you like.

I'm talking about the calibration in the game menu, when the controls became unresponsive and your sword keeps flying around the place, I never had to do that, even though that happened in the demo.

Also, your situation never happened to me.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

A modern Zelda game is polarizing? Some people focus on the steps forward and others focus on the steps back?

I'm completely shocked.

After questioning whether Zelda games were ever truly less linear than they are currently I don't think you've got the right to poke fun at people's analysis of the series.

 

[butter_stick]

But I won't have to constantly pause the game and go into a menu to re-assign weapons between puzzles.


That's still more button-presses (and analog stick selection) and less intuitive than the current dial system in SS.


As for the HUD, you can completely turn off everything on the right-hand side of the screen on the Pro configuration.

It wouldn't take more button presses. It'd take exactly the same, while greatly reducing the time needed to switch to commonly used items.

 

[ASIS]

Or you can read the post i made at the top of this page and see whats the issue with the SS select system. Its really good but have its issues, issues that Nintendo could have mitigated even more withouth much inconvinience.

My bad I didn't read it before, anyway, I still don't see the point to put extra items in the Dpads.

Just hold B, move the controller, and done! You don't even have to wait for the menu to pop up to begin moving the controller.

EDIT: BTW how are you finding the game?

 

[Refreshment.01]

That'd make the HUD kind of ugly, since you always need to know what items are equipped on the d-pad, while the only B-button method only has one Wiimote button on the top right of the screen.

What about the ever present hearts, shield meter and rupee count? Doesnt that make it uglier. The stamina bar following Link? but at least is contextual. How about when riding the bird that useless altitude meter?

So putting left and right Dpad items closer to the B icon in pro HUD would be unbearable? Come on man

 

[Dascu]

It wouldn't take more button presses. It'd take exactly the same, while greatly reducing the time needed to switch to commonly used items.

Hold and release B button

versus

Hold D-pad, select item with analog stick, release D-pad, press B to use weapon

Also, you can't move while selecting the item (since you need your analog stick), and it'd take much longer if your item is on the other side of the dial menu. And if you ask me, the B button is in a much more ergonomic position for quick switches than one of the D-pad buttons.

 

[Randomizer]

I agree with the Gamespot's 7.5 score.

Have you played the game?

Honest question as I'm curious as to what you thought of the game and your general opinion of the overall game, What it did wrong\right etc?

 

[Refreshment.01]

My bad I didn't read it before, anyway, I still don't see the point to put extra items in the Dpads.

Just hold B, move the controller, and done! You don't even have to wait for the menu to pop up to begin moving the controller.

Hold and release B button

versus

Hold D-pad, select item with analog stick, release D-pad, press B to use weapon

Also, you can't move while selecting the item (since you need your analog stick), and it'd take much longer if your item is on the other side of the dial menu. And if you ask me, the B button is in a much more ergonomic position for quick switches than one of the D-pad buttons.

Guys the system is really good Nintendo hit a homerun but they cripple it a lil bit.

Keep the gyro wheel selection as it is now but on top of that let the user (if he wants) assign two of his most used items to left and right. It will save potentially hundreds of wheel visits of the thousands a player is making in a normal playthrough.

Its not a big issue but we should recognize theres a way to improve it.

 

[TyRaNtM]

Metacritic added a 9 review from a Italian website, but there still other reviews that aren't added yet.
With that 9, the total score back to 94 again..

 

[Regulus Tera]

35 hours? Hope not. That sounds too long.

I hate this fucking generation.

 

[Caelus]

Keep the gyro wheel selection as it is now but on top of that let the user (if he wants) assign two of his most used items to left and right. It will save potentially hundreds of wheel visits of the thousands a player is making in a normal playthrough.

As I have stated, that would make the HUD less clean.

 

[Dascu]

Guys the system is really good Nintendo hit a homerun but they cripple it a lil bit.

Keep the gyro wheel selection as it is now but on top of that let the user (if he wants) assign two of his most used items to left and right. It will save potentially hundreds of wheel visits of the thousands a player is making in a normal playthrough.

Its not a big issue but we should recognize theres a way to improve it.

I somewhat misunderstood. If he just wants to assign two weapons to the unused D-pad buttons, I suppose that could work. However, I don't think you'd be saving a lot of time, and that it'd only be a marginal improvement at best.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I hate this fucking generation.

A lot of people work, study and otherwise have family/social commitments. Designing games for people who have 50+ hours to kill when your game is going to be released alongside a bunch of others doesn't always make much sense.

 

[ASIS]

Guys the system is really good Nintendo hit a homerun but they cripple it a lil bit.

Keep the gyro wheel selection as it is now but on top of that let the user (if he wants) assign two of his most used items to left and right. It will save potentially hundreds of wheel visits of the thousands a player is making in a normal playthrough.

Its not a big issue but we should recognize theres a way to improve it.

I see, i thought you weren't very happy with the way it controlled in general. So yes I agree completely that it could be improved (what couldn't?) but butter_stick was arguing that it was crippling the experience rather than enhancing it. And that is simply untrue.

 

[Caelus]

So putting left and right Dpad items closer to the B icon in pro HUD would be unbearable? Come on man

The d-pad already has a set position in the middle right of the screen, where the harp and Fi are equipped as well. The hearts, rupee and shield meter are not unbearable, the altimeter is not useless either since you can't fly at certain levels, and one isn't flying around a lot. Adding two items to the d-pad would add unnecessary clutter and destroys the need for a pro option, since the only difference between the pro and light option is the lack of a d-pad.

Would it make it unbearable? No, I don't think so. I'm playing the game with the standard option. However, I know people that would complain, and to be honest I prefer the idea of only having the b-button for items. Not to mention I'm not always switching it around constantly, then again I'm not that far in the game.

 

[Medalion]

After all these reviews average out, we will eventually get another 8.8 Zelda game...believe

 

[qizah]

A lot of people work, study and otherwise have family/social commitments. Designing games for people who have 50+ hours to kill when your game is going to be released alongside a bunch of others doesn't always make much sense.

I work, I commute to my campus, I have full time studies - Doesn't mean I want to get a game that's only going to last 10 hours.

35+ hour games are fine, it just means you'll be occupied by it over a longer stretch.

 

[Jocchan]

I honestly fail to see how adding the ability to equip two more items on the D-pad would be better than just a weapon wheel that works as hold button -> tilt -> release button.
How would the player equip and switch those two items? A menu like the previous games? Two more wheels with the same objects inside? What if the player tries to equip (perhaps by mistake) something already equipped on a different button? Would it get unequipped from there, like the previous games, and make him waste more time?

 

[test_account]

After all these reviews average out, we will eventually get another 8.8 Zelda game...believe

IGN = score 10
Gamespot score = 7.5

Those two Zelda reviews averages out to 8.8!

Spoiler

The average is 8.75 though, but close enough hehe

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

I honestly fail to see how adding the ability to equip two more items on the D-pad would be better than just a weapon wheel that works as hold button -> tilt -> release button.

It wouldn't use any motion controls.

 

[Regulus Tera]

A lot of people work, study and otherwise have family/social commitments. Designing games for people who have 50+ hours to kill when your game is going to be released alongside a bunch of others doesn't always make much sense.

What I hate about this generation is that a game can only be enjoyed if you get to the credits, not necessarily games becoming shorter.

My favourite game this gen is two-hours long.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

What I hate about this generation is that a game can only be enjoyed if you get to the credits, not necessarily games becoming shorter.

Ah, that's way more interesting!

 

[ASIS]

It wouldn't use any motion controls.

So people hate motion controls for the sake of hating it now?

 

[[Nintex]]

Ever since the first E3 demo and the motion control angle instead of a Twilight Princess sequel I knew this game would be quite polarizing.

 

[Dascu]

It wouldn't use any motion controls.

In that case you need the analog stick to select items, and then you'd lose the seamless aspect of the current system.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Man has it already died down in less than 24 hours?

 

[RurouniZel]

Here's the best and most consise dissection of the motion+ control problem I've seen yet, from fellow GAFer jarosh:

Thank you for posting these impressions from Jarosh. I feel like I have a much better idea of the problems people are having because he articulated them in a very coherent fashion. I'm sure I'll still love the game, but it's more likely I'll enjoy now that I'm being giving the proper expectations rather than PR BS. ^^

 

[Garryk]

All Nintendo had to do was buy splash page advertising at Gamespot to avoid this

 

[Medalion]

All Nintendo had to do was buy splash page advertising at Gamespot to avoid this

So once again, no moneyhats to Gamespot

 

[Pie Lord]

IGN = score 10
Gamespot score = 7.5

Those two Zelda reviews averages out to 8.8!

Spoiler

The average is 8.75 though, but close enough hehe

 

[Lord_Byron28]

Particularly in his combat analysis, there represents a far better problem of the issue that I've seen anyone else suggest to date. He discusses the imprecise nature of the controls, the seeming disconnect between old zelda design enemies and new controls. It's a very nuanced analysis. It's what leads me to believe a site like Gamespot giving the game a 7.5 - which I'm inherently more inclined to believe since it's clearly not being influenced by publishing strong arming than IGN's embarrassing cum-guzzling 10.0 - is based on real problems, even though they perhaps weren't nearly as eloquently or accurately stated.

TBH, The whole "They gave the game a 10. It must have been bought and they are cum guzzling biased reviewers." is just as annoying as "He rated the game significantly lower than everyone else he must be trolling for hits.". Just me but a review is a review and an opinion based on personal experience with the game. One person's opinion doesn't make another person's opinion invalidated. Both of the above listed situations do happen but unless there is significant evidence I don't think anyone can properly assess and make such accusations.

With that said the fact the the Gamespot reviewer said the game was controlled by IR and complained that it didn't work when in fact the game isn't controlled by IR calls his entire motion controls complaint into question.

 

[jeremy1456]

A lot of people work, study and otherwise have family/social commitments. Designing games for people who have 50+ hours to kill when your game is going to be released alongside a bunch of others doesn't always make much sense.

So let me get this straight.

More content is a bad thing? Is this a new meme or something, or are you really being serious?

So there are other games you want to play - simply do so. It's not that hard. No one is forcing you to play Skyward Sword, or even, beat the game in one sitting.

 

[ASIS]

All Nintendo had to do was buy splash page advertising at Gamespot to avoid this

Do you honestly believe stuff like that actually happens behind the scenes? I mean the topic of bribery is no stranger to journalists but there has yet to be a single incident where a popular company was exposed right?.. right?

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

In that case you need the analog stick to select items, and then you'd lose the seamless aspect of the current system.

I don't think they would care(look at all the efforts to "convert" the controls to an analogue stick, none of those would be as seemless as the M+ controls, but plenty of people would prefer them).

So people hate motion controls for the sake of hating it now?

Where have you been for the last 5 years?

Edit:

Do you honestly believe stuff like that actually happens behind the scenes? I mean the topic of bribery is no stranger to journalists but there has yet to be a single incident where a popular company was exposed right?.. right?

Seriously?

 

[ASIS]

Where have you been for the last 5 years?

Oh... Thought you were being serious there for a moment

Edit:


Seriously?

YES seriously, I don't know any of that stuff so I'm really asking.

 

[Amir0x]

TBH, The whole "They gave the game a 10. It must have been bought and they are cum guzzling biased reviewers." is just as annoying as "He rated the game significantly lower than everyone else he must be trolling for hits.". Just me but a review is a review and an opinion based on personal experience with the game. One person's opinion doesn't make another person's opinion invalidated. Both of the above listed situations do happen but unless there is significant evidence I don't think anyone can properly assess and make such accusations.

With that said the fact the the Gamespot reviewer said the game was controlled by IR and complained that it didn't work when it in fact the game isn't controlled by IR calls his entire motion controls complaint into question.

You're fine to think it's just as annoying, but it's been demonstrated time and time again that this is the case way more than "we're trolling for hits." The publisher strong arming tactic is systemic industry problem that occurs across the board; the trolling for hits thing is usually done by smaller know nothing sites that don't generally get many hits. Gamespot is one of the few big game review sites, if any game review site could be called "big." All reviewers blow mostly because they can't write, but it's clear when a bigger site like Gamespot or Eurogamer give a negative perspective (read: muted) for a big title that it's more likely to be an actual approximation of what they feel than if these sites were to give big epic game X a 10.

One is statistically far more likely to be the case. In IGN's case, with both their Uncharted 3 and Zelda: Skyward Sword review, they read like raving lunatic rants, done by wild apes at a zoo rather than someone trying to make any sort of real critique of a product. Having not read Gamespot review, I can't say what it is more like. Except it seems to be a critique mostly of the inconsistent and imprecise motion controls, which I've heard many people say is the case - me included - and I've heard jarosh, who has clearly and consisely done a better job of explaining the issues than anybody I've seen.

 

[test_account]

http://i.imgur.com/2Zxgu.jpg

Lol

 

[Medalion]

Moby hasn't aged well

 

[MisterHero]

So let me get this straight.

More content is a bad thing? Is this a new meme or something, or are you really being serious?

So there are other games you want to play - simply do so. It's not that hard. No one is forcing you to play Skyward Sword, or even, beat the game in one sitting.

The stance sounds weird, indeed. But my argument is that all these people also either play copious amounts of sessions in their favorite shooters/combat games, or they spend hours upon hours in genres like MMOs (which time is a necessity to progress at all).

The time needed to dedicate to games is getting bigger in some cases. So, if there's a short game, and there's really long games, there's a possibility for balance.

 

[Refreshment.01]

However, I don't think you'd be saving a lot of time, and that it'd only be a marginal improvement at best.

Its quicker. Less visits to the wheel multiplied by thousands of times is a considerable amount of saved time, so it could be convenient. Also when the wheels is full you have to be more carefull where the string is positioned to not select the incorrect one. And last it would be optional, so if the user doesn't put anything in the dpad then its not showed in the "B" icon and caelus still is a happy camper.

As I have stated, that would make the HUD less clean.

But you haven't adressed my statements regarding the HUD caelus. As i've pointed out that excuse doesn't hold because:

a) Nintendo opted for the most bloated HUD the series has seen by default.

b)This is going by memory, i might be wrong. But even in pro there are instances where up and down on the Dpad is shown.

c) Having 2 small additional icons protuding of the main circle in pro option wouldn't hurt so much when your left side is up to the brink with unnecesary shit that could be and should be contextual.

d)Loft wing interface is ugly on pro. The stamina bar is ugly as they come and stays in Pro, when the sound cues could be more than enough. And there are a million other less intrusive visual ways to give the player feed back in regards of stamina status.

Not directed to caelus but speaking in general:

As expected the thread is not in shortage of fanatics

However, what we all need to understand is that the criticism do more good than harm. Those high rated review scores are reinforcing bad practices that Nintendo has implement in the series. Things that the more down to earth reviews have pointed out and will become apparent to you when playing the game. Even more so in multiple runs.

This is the in love stage for the game so its being idealized, after hype perishes hopefuly good meaningful critics are accepted but then it's too late.

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

Oh... Thought you were being serious there for a moment
YES seriously, I don't know any of that stuff so I'm really asking.

http://legendarygamersoapbox.blogspot.com/2007/11/kane-lynch-gamespot-scandal.html

It feels odd referring to Jeff Gerstman in a Zelda thread & not talking about 8.8.

 

[qizah]

By the way, this game comes out on Sunday - in case anyone forgot... lol

I got component cables just in time to play SS - I was looking at older games like Other M, SMG2 and Metroid Prime 3 on my TV, they look glorious lol.

 

[jeremy1456]

The stance sounds weird, indeed. But my argument is that all these people also either play copious amounts of sessions in their favorite shooters/combat games, or they spend hours upon hours in genres like MMOs (which time is a necessity to progress at all).

The time needed to dedicate to games is getting bigger in some cases. So, if there's a short game, and there's really long games, there's a possibility for balance.

There is. Now, if a game contains unnecessary fluff then I agree. I don't know how padded Skyward Sword is, but we've known for a while that it's going to be long.

There's nothing saying that you have to play it, and only it, until it's completed right when the game is released. Why not wait to buy it when there's nothing else to play?

 

[cajunator]

I dont mind mixed scores when a game is trying to do unique things like Skyward Sword is. Would much rather play this than Skyrim, which is playing it safe. Seems boring to me.
Uncharted 3 tried to change a few things, which both helped it and nearly ruined it, but at least they tried.

 

[Kifimbo]

One is statistically far more likely to be the case. In IGN's case, with both their Uncharted 3 and Zelda: Skyward Sword review, they read like raving lunatic rants, done by wild apes at a zoo rather than someone trying to make any sort of real critique of a product. Having not read Gamespot review, I can't say what it is more like. Except it seems to be a critique mostly of the inconsistent and imprecise motion controls, which I've heard many people say is the case - me included - and I've heard jarosh, who has clearly and consisely done a better job of explaining the issues than anybody I've seen.

jarosh opinion on the motion controls are nothing like the GameStop review. He never said the controls are imprecise and doesn't work, in fact he stated the opposite.

so despite the precision of the sword controls

jarosh is saying the combat isn't deeper or more satisfying and the changes are superficial.

 

[MisterHero]

Oh... Thought you were being serious there for a moment
YES seriously, I don't know any of that stuff so I'm really asking.

Gamespot got in trouble for giving a borderline parody review they were helping to promote (Kane & Lynch)

Various media outlets were chided by Factor 5 for "reviewing Lair wrong"

EA scoffed at the idea of media bribery with $200 checks promoting Dante's Inferno

Free Xboxes for everyone at E3 2010*

stuff like that

*nothing really wrong with that

There is. Now, if a game contains unnecessary fluff then I agree. I don't know how padded Skyward Sword is, but we've known for a while that it's going to be long.

There's nothing saying that you have to play it, and only it, until it's completed right when the game is released. Why not wait to buy it when there's nothing else to play?

Definitely. There's too many games to enjoy at any one point, and there's other things to enjoy than just videogames.

However, I'm buying lots of bargain games while waiting for Zelda. It will be the first time in a while I'll be able to enjoy a game alongside the GAF launch audience.

 

[farnham]

Do you honestly believe stuff like that actually happens behind the scenes? I mean the topic of bribery is no stranger to journalists but there has yet to be a single incident where a popular company was exposed right?.. right?

..... they fired gerstmann because he gave kane and lynch 2 a bad review.

gerstmann was like the founding member and editor in chief of gamespot..

gamespot has pretty much said to the whole gaming community that they will be willing to hand out good reviews if the money is right and punish any editor that is not willing to do this.