No, we just know they're profitable when a game is purchased.
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Sony Q2 FY13: PS3 2.0 M
- Thread starter Parmenides
- Start date
No, we just know they're profitable when a game is purchased.
I Stalk Alone
Member
they do not make $60 profit per game
a Sony Game! So every Console need to sell with Knack or Killzone for a ~0 Loss. PS Plus will be the Extra.
Come on, it is simple math if they lose $60 on the console.
But the plus subscription will cover for part of the consoles.
Canis lupus
Member
Is this the first time Sony is reporting PSN downloads under software?
We dont know that they lose $60. All they've said is they're profitable when including the purchase of a game
PS4 costs: research, manufacturing, shipping. I dunno how many millions they made pure loss this year (and last year) due to PS4 that has 0 console sold so far.
Or are those costs added to some other department than "Gaming"?
Dude, it's clearly not 100% profit even if it's a Sony game.
I´m only repeating what Sony told us
Maybe they are counting:
PS4+Sony Game+12 Months PS+ = ~0 Loss ?
The PS3 sold more than every other home console combined.
What seems to have happened with the 360 is similar to what happened to the original Wii a few years ago, it just lost its legs and crumbled.
With Gran Turismo 6, a huge seller with legs, they will see lesser drop offs than the 360 into the next year. Though what effect a 399 PS4 will have on PS3 remains to be seen. I think they should cut the price ever so slightly in Japan, the console is stagnant there at 10-15k for months now, granted its outselling the Wii U and has been all year but thats not some kind of bragging prize to outsell the Wii U anyway.
I said it before, they will likely cross that 100 million mark with the PS3 in 2-3 years, which a few years ago was unthinkable with how poorly the console performed.
What seems to have happened with the 360 is similar to what happened to the original Wii a few years ago, it just lost its legs and crumbled.
With Gran Turismo 6, a huge seller with legs, they will see lesser drop offs than the 360 into the next year. Though what effect a 399 PS4 will have on PS3 remains to be seen. I think they should cut the price ever so slightly in Japan, the console is stagnant there at 10-15k for months now, granted its outselling the Wii U and has been all year but thats not some kind of bragging prize to outsell the Wii U anyway.
I said it before, they will likely cross that 100 million mark with the PS3 in 2-3 years, which a few years ago was unthinkable with how poorly the console performed.
serversurfer
Member
I don't recall them even saying that much. IIRC, the "probably profitable with 1 game" came from an analyst, and when questioned on the matter, Sony refused to say exactly what they needed to sell before they were profitable, but seemed confident that most console purchases would turn out to be profitable for them when you include the stuff people normally buy with a console, like a game or two and maybe a spare controller.We dont know that they lose $60. All they've said is they're profitable when including the purchase of a game
So they may not turn a profit on the first game they sell, but they do intend to turn a profit on each "console sale," even though they're taking a loss on the console itself. IOW, they should profit from that user on day one; it won't take three months and a dozen games or whatever.
michaelius
Banned
Yes Microsoft litterally pulled the plug and stopped caring about it after GeoW:J while people see continued Sony support which influences their decisions.
Plus probably some people who already had x360 are buying ps3 in preparation for next gen.
D
Deleted member 125677
Unconfirmed Member
Still hiding Vita sales under PSP, why?
Am I reading it right, did their game division lose $8.000.000 in the last quarter, while Nintendo made $6.000.000 ?
Am I reading it right, did their game division lose $8.000.000 in the last quarter, while Nintendo made $6.000.000 ?
We dont know that they lose $60. All they've said is they're profitable when including the purchase of a game
Ok, I thought the $60 is official or something. I kind of find difficult to believe that they would have profit with a purchase of a game. That would be like $30-$40 loss per console, which seems way to low. Without factoring in the cost of producing and distributing the games (which are partially included in the previous quarter anyhow). And without taking into consideration the bundles. But I guess we will see it in January.
nintendo lost more in operating costs than sony (by about three times the amount). we don't know sony's net income for the quarter is though- that's where nintendo made the $6m.
Napalm_Frank
Member
PS4 to blame I guess.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Well one company is launching a next gen console this year.....hmmm I wonder which one that could be?
The loss from the PS4 R&D costs was included in the last 2 Quarters. This have nothing to do with the release of the PS4.
D
Deleted member 125677
Unconfirmed Member
And one company has a totally failing next gen console on the market already, who could that be?
Ok, so the numbers are not strictly comparable?
We only see the Operating income from the whole Company, no information about the income from the Games section.
shinra-bansho
Member
We see operating income (loss) per segment.
We see net income (loss) for the company as a whole.
cebri.one
Member
So it's free to manufacture a console.
For sure it´s not, but there are no relevant R&D costs for this Quarter.
It depends on when and how they book the manufacturing costs.
I believe R&D is separate expense from manufacturing so technically he is correct. Although how the company accounts for these expenses is entirely unknown to me.
Imperfected
Member
The Vita is obviously a drag on profitability, and there are quite a few operating expenses in the run-up to the PS4 launch that won't be recouped for a while, but the PS3 is maintaining a surprisingly good bottom line for being this far into its life. 45% Doomed - DOOMED but no exclamation point allowed.
As for a complete financial breakdown:
PS3: doomed...?
PS4: doomed
PSV: DOOMED!!1
(Kidding aside, though, it looks like fairly good indicators for their home console market in general, but probably means the PSV will be their last foray into handheld space barring some kind of gaming phone.)
No those are under gaming. What I find odd is that they don't mention the PS4 at all as a reason for the losses...because it most certainly is. R&D is most likely not part of this quarter at all. But manufacturing, promotions etc will cost them money and they don't talk about it.
Imperfected
Member
They're probably folding them in under PS3 expenses, since things like the "Greatness Awaits" ad campaign weren't specifically PS4 advertisements, even if that's obviously their intended purpose. I believe most promotions they're doing (in terms of giveaways and such) include other Sony merchandise as well, so they can basically write it off to whichever category they like.
Pegasus Actual
Gold Member
So am I supposed to buy Sony stock or...!??!? What does this mean!?!?!?
Devilgunman
Member
This summarize nicely. Holyshit @ Sony picture tanking. Everything else seems to do alright. Biggest improvement is Smartphone section thanks to very nice Xperia lines. Home Entertainment division is also getting better from being an absolute shithole for the entire corporation. Game division has nothing to worry with PS4 coming but keep figers crossed with the Vita TV.
Quite impressive how the PS3 numbers contradict the common belief about home console sales. And considering Playstation strongest market is also the one that cares more about price (due to economic crisis), if they drop the price to 129 or 149, the console will still have legs, which at the same time will compete against the PS4...
On the other hand, the Vita is dead. It's an amazing platform and I love it but it's a dead platform. With this kind of numbers there is not going to be any 3rd party support and in 1/2 years even Sony will stop supporting it with 1st party games.
On the other hand, the Vita is dead. It's an amazing platform and I love it but it's a dead platform. With this kind of numbers there is not going to be any 3rd party support and in 1/2 years even Sony will stop supporting it with 1st party games.
Game business struggling due to Vita bomba.
Pictures super bomba, as anyone who bothered to enter the Box Office threads for at least 1 week would expect. Although it is interesting to see the pressure to spin-off their media business resulted in the supplementary information about it.
http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/13q1_sony.pdf#page=16&zoom=auto,0,330
http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/13q2_sony.pdf#page=18&zoom=auto,0,361
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2013/131031e.pdf#page=2&zoom=auto,0,619
Pictures super bomba, as anyone who bothered to enter the Box Office threads for at least 1 week would expect. Although it is interesting to see the pressure to spin-off their media business resulted in the supplementary information about it.
Code:
2013
OPERATING INCOME
SONY GAME NINTENDO
APR-JUN -149 -50
JUL-SEP -8 -187
----------------------------------
APR-SEP -159 -237
NET INCOME
SONY GAME NINTENDO
APR-JUN ?? 88
JUL-SEP ?? -82
----------------------------------
APR-SEP ?? 6
1. Millions of dollars
2. Currency: 1 jpy = 0.010169 usdhttp://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/13q1_sony.pdf#page=16&zoom=auto,0,330
http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/13q2_sony.pdf#page=18&zoom=auto,0,361
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2013/131031e.pdf#page=2&zoom=auto,0,619
I understand we don't see the net income for the game division, but can we at least guess if it's a positive number?
I'm just wondering if it made an overall profit. IIRC, it made a profit for maybe 2-3 quarters this entire generation, which is kinda depressing. It seems every year something is holding them back (ps3 killing any psp profits, and now maybe vita killing ps3 profits).
I mean, the ps3 is doing great for a while, and it seems like it doesn't translate into cash...
I'm just wondering if it made an overall profit. IIRC, it made a profit for maybe 2-3 quarters this entire generation, which is kinda depressing. It seems every year something is holding them back (ps3 killing any psp profits, and now maybe vita killing ps3 profits).
I mean, the ps3 is doing great for a while, and it seems like it doesn't translate into cash...
zomgbbqftw
Banned
SPE killed the results. Complete failure by the division. After Earth and White House Down both tanked and were expensive to make. Kaz needs to clear out the management at the division and look at starting their own premium cable TV channel like HBO for their own programming like Breaking Bad.
As for the game division, 2m PS3s should conclusively prove that it is now ahead of 360. A 5m target for PS4 is decent, but I suspect they have played it down a bit so they can have a bit of investor cheer for the full year results.
Company wide, they still have yet to normalise their tax situation which is weighing down on net profits. And there was a forecast downgrade. Xperia did okay, should be doing better. I have yet to look at the detail though.
As for the game division, 2m PS3s should conclusively prove that it is now ahead of 360. A 5m target for PS4 is decent, but I suspect they have played it down a bit so they can have a bit of investor cheer for the full year results.
Company wide, they still have yet to normalise their tax situation which is weighing down on net profits. And there was a forecast downgrade. Xperia did okay, should be doing better. I have yet to look at the detail though.
timetokill
Banned
Financial Services Operating Income: 39.2
The rest of Sony combined: -8.5
The rest of Sony combined: -8.5
Selling or heavily restructuring their TV/Movie business has to happen soon. Either that, or start working with Marvel by introducing Spiderman into MCU. Make a few joint superhero movies with them, and watch the money start to flow.
Videogame movies could be good, but I dont expect large success from them. Only Uncharted can be easily made into fun summer flick with large appeal.
Videogame movies could be good, but I dont expect large success from them. Only Uncharted can be easily made into fun summer flick with large appeal.
Prince Vultan
Banned
PS3 kicking ass. Aw yiss.
Not quite, no. The retailer gets a cut, the cost of the game itself in terms of production, etc.. yeah, maybe 2-3 games or more likely a game + extra controller.
Sony ALREADY has it's own premium cable channel!!!!! It's called, "Sony Movie Channel". So I think you meant to say, Sony needs to start airing original HBO/Showtime/AMC/FX-type TV shows on Sony Movie Channel.
Also Sony owns or co-owns several other cable networks around the world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Entertainment_Television#Television_channels
Monty Mole
Member
EuroGamer's article on the results:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-10-31-sonys-wider-problems-heap-pressure-on-ps4
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-10-31-sonys-wider-problems-heap-pressure-on-ps4
KillerMan91
Member
How in the hell they shipped 93 million copies of software last Q!? That is more than they shipped last holiday quarter. Damn. That is impressive. Also almost thee times what Nintendo platforms did (35 million).... Really shows difference between healthy home console (PS3) and handheld (3DS) and why Nintendo is so fucked with WiiU clusterfuck.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Well that wouldn't be a movie channel then. HBO is a mixed programming channel with original content, movies and reruns. Sony need to have a look at emulating that model and selling subscriptions like HBO. As long as they can continue to make compelling shows like Breaking Bad they can make a go of it. Won't be easy though. They can also leverage PS3s in homes and PS4s by making it an online simulcast for those devices for a lower monthly fee or something like that.
Sorry, was misremembering a Eurogamer interview with Masayasu Ito where EG suggestedf a $60 loss and Ito just said "profitable when including the user buying PS+ and games" which could mean anything really
michaelius
Banned
So actually this could mean that you need at list $90-§100 to cover the loss (PS+ and a Sony game).
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
What a mistake the Vita was.