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[John Wick]

How its not the biggest failure?

Sony are still there. This was a blip. Nothing has changed. Sony making bank and selling games and consoles. Now explain how it's the biggest failure but with facts not fiction?

 

[RoboFu]

Sonys TVs are back in the game.

 

[Astray]

Let's start with Vagrant Story.

That would require Square being actually smart.

 

[Gaelyon]

Any lucky bastard bought Sony actions in 2012 ? Wish I did.

 

[Ronin_7]

Not surprising. Sony has gone to extreme lengths the past years to maximize profit margins. It was inevitable the shareholders would reward them for it. Expect more of it going forward.

Their agressive in investment in music & semi conductors will also pay immensely in the future.

 

[Astray]

Hogs Law told me they're going bankrupt though.

Totoki scrounging the couch for pennies to use for the Kadokawa deal.

 

[AyraSutoraifu]

That would require Square being actually smart.

Yeah, not gonna happen…

 

[m14]

That you think this is actually the biggest gaming failure of all time tells us everything we need to know about you.

That I have no motivation to downplay what an unprecedented disaster Concord was?

How is it the biggest gaming failure of all time?

A game that cost hundreds of millions of dollars to produce, lead to the closure of an entire studio and was only playable for two weeks.
Your defence seems to be that it isn't the biggest failure because it didn't bankrupt Sony. In reality Concord is likely the biggest media failure in history given what is cost to make versus how little money it recouped.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

That I have no motivation to downplay what an unprecedented disaster Concord was?


A game that cost hundreds of millions of dollars to produce, lead to the closure of an entire studio and was only playable for two weeks.
Your defence seems to be that it isn't the biggest failure because it didn't bankrupt Sony. In reality Concord is likely the biggest media failure in history given what is cost to make versus how little money it recouped.

How many games cost hundreds of millions of dollars and are never released and the studio closed? Or how many games were significantly more expensive than Concord like Star Wars Outlaws and simply didn't make their money back?

Your mind is warped.

Biggest media failure? Not even close... How many movies have had a bigger budget (including marketing) and flopped. How old are you? Were you born this year? That's actually pretty impressive.

 

[m14]

How many games cost hundreds of millions of dollars and are never released and the studio closed? Or how many games were significantly more expensive than Concord like Star Wars Outlaws and simply didn't make their money back?

Your mind is warped.

Biggest media failure? Not even close... How many movies have had a bigger budget (including marketing) and flopped. How old are you? Were you born this year? That's actually pretty impressive.

Concord isn't merely a game that didn't make its money back, it likely didn't recoup even 1% of its cost.

And yes, there are many flop movies. But how many of those had a budget of hundreds of millions and took less than 5 million at the box office? It's an unprecedented failure.

 

[Project EVE]

Congrats on not growing for 25 years

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Concord isn't merely a game that didn't make its money back, it likely didn't recoup even 1% of its cost.

And yes, there are many flop movies. But how many of those had a budget of hundreds of millions and took less than 5 million at the box office? It's an unprecedented failure.

Again how many canceled games didn't make back money? Somehow that Concord released and was quickly shut down means it was a bigger failure than a game that never released.

You mean like movies like John Carter of mars, Lone Rangers, The Marvels, Mortal Engines, Cutthroat Island, Joker 2, Tomorrowland?

You have no idea how much Concord actually cost to make and how much Sony paid for it, but somehow you're convinced with no real information that it was a bigger flop than the things I mentioned above. It was such a big flop that it had no impact on Sony's financials... that's so weird.

 

[BlackTron]

Again how many canceled games didn't make back money? Somehow that Concord released and was quickly shut down means it was a bigger failure than a game that never released.

You mean like movies like John Carter of mars, Lone Rangers, The Marvels, Mortal Engines, Cutthroat Island, Joker 2, Tomorrowland?

You have no idea how much Concord actually cost to make and how much Sony paid for it, but somehow you're convinced with no real information that it was a bigger flop than the things I mentioned above. It was such a big flop that it had no impact on Sony's financials... that's so weird.

At least games that didn't release cut their losses before coming out to stop losing money sooner. Concord was so bad, they had to take back releasing it to reign in how much it was losing, because it cost more to keep it open.

Love the tag btw

 

[m14]

Again how many canceled games didn't make back money? Somehow that Concord released and was quickly shut down means it was a bigger failure than a game that never released.

You mean like movies like John Carter of mars, Lone Rangers, The Marvels, Mortal Engines, Cutthroat Island, Joker 2, Tomorrowland?

You have no idea how much Concord actually cost to make and how much Sony paid for it, but somehow you're convinced with no real information that it was a bigger flop than the things I mentioned above. It was such a big flop that it had no impact on Sony's financials... that's so weird.

Box office returns on the movies you listed:
John Carter: $284.1 million (Budget: $306.6 million)
Lone Ranger: $260.5 million (Budget: $225-250 million)
The Marvels: $206.1 million (Budget: $374 million)
Mortal Engines: $83.7 million (Budget: $100-150 million)
Cutthroat Island: $16 million (Budget: $92-115 million)
Joker 2: $206.4 million (Budget: $190-200 million)
Tomorrowland: : $209 million (Budget $180-190 million)

Plenty of financial losses there although these numbers don't include money made later from physical media / VOD / streaming etc. But nothing even approaching the disaster that was Concord. Even copies of Cutthroat Island weren't erased from existence after just two weeks.

Sony haven't admitted just how much money they lost on this game but it is widely considered to be in the hundreds of millions of dollars, whether we choose to believe the $400 million claim or not.
As for financials, while they are far from Microsoft's level it shouldn't be a shock that Sony are generating enough money to survive even an unprecedented failure like this.

 

[Muddy]

Box office returns on the movies you listed:
John Carter: $284.1 million (Budget: $306.6 million)
Lone Ranger: $260.5 million (Budget: $225-250 million)
The Marvels: $206.1 million (Budget: $374 million)
Mortal Engines: $83.7 million (Budget: $100-150 million)
Cutthroat Island: $16 million (Budget: $92-115 million)
Joker 2: $206.4 million (Budget: $190-200 million)
Tomorrowland: : $209 million (Budget $180-190 million)

Plenty of financial losses there although these numbers don't include money made later from physical media / VOD / streaming etc. But nothing even approaching the disaster that was Concord. Even copies of Cutthroat Island weren't erased from existence after just two weeks.

Sony haven't admitted just how much money they lost on this game but it is widely considered to be in the hundreds of millions of dollars, whether we choose to believe the $400 million claim or not.
As for financials, while they are far from Microsoft's level it shouldn't be a shock that Sony are generating enough money to survive even an unprecedented failure like this.

Kinda pointless saying it is the biggest failure in media when you don’t even know what the exact cost was for the game.

Move on.

Sony and their investors have.

 

[m14]

Kinda pointless saying it is the biggest failure in media when you don’t even know what the exact cost was for the game.

Move on.

Sony and their investors have.

"Move along chaps, nothing to see here."

We don't need to know the exact cost to determine that Concord was a failure without precedent. Even the more conservative estimates of the money it cost versus its tiny financial returns assure it of that status.

 

[Astray]

Again how many canceled games didn't make back money? Somehow that Concord released and was quickly shut down means it was a bigger failure than a game that never released.

You mean like movies like John Carter of mars, Lone Rangers, The Marvels, Mortal Engines, Cutthroat Island, Joker 2, Tomorrowland?

You have no idea how much Concord actually cost to make and how much Sony paid for it, but somehow you're convinced with no real information that it was a bigger flop than the things I mentioned above. It was such a big flop that it had no impact on Sony's financials... that's so weird.

People just assume that Sony paid $400m (if that) in one shot right after they certified Concord.

It's likely that the Firewalk buyout offer was in tranches and installments. The salaries of the team were already part of past financial disclosures.

They're looking for a big hole in the ground when it was all a slow drip.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

I'd say trying to downplay the biggest gaming failure of all time in this manner is significantly funnier.

The fact that you've derailed this thread to talk about Concord is impressive.

 

[Muddy]

"Move along chaps, nothing to see here."

We don't need to know the exact cost to determine that Concord was a failure without precedent. Even the more conservative estimates of the money it cost versus its tiny financial returns assure it of that status.

Make your point when you get the exact figures.

Move along.

 

[m14]

The fact that you've derailed this thread to talk about Concord is impressive.

Ah... I wasn't the person who first mentioned Concord and tried to downplay its failure. But I'll let you get back to sweeping it under the rug.

Make your point when you get the exact figures.

Move along.

The point was already emphatically made and without any rational counter argument. And no I don't expect Sony to provide figures.

 

[Woopah]

yet, no showcase

At this point they don't need to. Instead of one big showcase a year, they can have multiple State of Plays. Just like how Nintendo hasn't needed a showcase for years.

 

[EN250]

I'd say trying to downplay the biggest gaming failure of all time in this manner is significantly funnier.

well man, that's the thing, Sony is lacking in the gaming department and that's without counting the Concords, Lego Horizons and so on but the results say they are doing better than ever, maybe it's the other branches that are doing better so idk, but I hope more first party GOOD games start releasing soon so I can celebrate with stockholders and all that

 

[FF:Enhanced_Reality]

They've generally been pretty weak in their attack since they stopped going to E3.

 

[Muddy]

Ah... I wasn't the person who first mentioned Concord and tried to downplay its failure. But I'll let you get back to sweeping it under the rug.


The point was already emphatically made and without any rational counter argument. And no I don't expect Sony to provide figures.

You have no point cause you don’t have the figures.

That’s the point.

Let’s stay on topic now.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

People just assume that Sony paid $400m (if that) in one shot right after they certified Concord.

It's likely that the Firewalk buyout offer was in tranches and installments. The salaries of the team were already part of past financial disclosures.

They're looking for a big hole in the ground when it was all a slow drip.

I just think it's funny that people think Totoki promoted Hermen Hulst if Concord was the "biggest media flop in history."

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Box office returns on the movies you listed:
John Carter: $284.1 million (Budget: $306.6 million)
Lone Ranger: $260.5 million (Budget: $225-250 million)
The Marvels: $206.1 million (Budget: $374 million)
Mortal Engines: $83.7 million (Budget: $100-150 million)
Cutthroat Island: $16 million (Budget: $92-115 million)
Joker 2: $206.4 million (Budget: $190-200 million)
Tomorrowland: : $209 million (Budget $180-190 million)

Plenty of financial losses there although these numbers don't include money made later from physical media / VOD / streaming etc. But nothing even approaching the disaster that was Concord. Even copies of Cutthroat Island weren't erased from existence after just two weeks.

Sony haven't admitted just how much money they lost on this game but it is widely considered to be in the hundreds of millions of dollars, whether we choose to believe the $400 million claim or not.
As for financials, while they are far from Microsoft's level it shouldn't be a shock that Sony are generating enough money to survive even an unprecedented failure like this.

None of those budgets include marketing costs and everyone knows the formula for movies is 2.5x cost budget.

Again, how many projects have been canceled before release. Why is this different?

Widely considered? By rumormongers lol...

Survive? They're profits are up and their revenue is up. They're doing more than surviving. How is this possible? How do they keep making MORE money despite this devastating blow? Unseen before in gaming and media?

They might have their most profitable year ever in the same year of Concord. Please explain to us how that is possible.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Congrats. Took 24 years to get back to an ATH..... in Japan.

The US ADR stock is at $22. In 2000, the stock was at $32. Still down 30%.

Sony Group Corporation (SONY) Stock Price, News, Quote & History - Yahoo Finance

Find the latest Sony Group Corporation (SONY) stock quote, history, news and other vital information to help you with your stock trading and investing.

finance.yahoo.com

 

[nial]

maybe it's the other branches that are doing better so idk

LMAO

 

[EN250]

LMAO

Said idk didn't I?

 

[m14]

None of those budgets include marketing costs and everyone knows the formula for movies is 2.5x cost budget.

Again, how many projects have been canceled before release. Why is this different?

Widely considered? By rumormongers lol...

Survive? They're profits are up and their revenue is up. They're doing more than surviving. How is this possible? How do they keep making MORE money despite this devastating blow? Unseen before in gaming and media?

They might have their most profitable year ever in the same year of Concord. Please explain to us how that is possible.

Because as BlackTron already pointed out, other cancelled games cut their losses before release and likely none cost nearly as much as Concord

I'm well aware of the cost of marketing a movie, but the point remains- none of those films brought in returns of less than $5 million.

As for their profits, clearly Sony were profitable in other areas and that helped ameliorate the losses inflicted by Concord. But that doesn't change the reality that Concord was an unprecedented failure. There's no harm in acknowledging that rather than pretending it didn't happen.

 

[Kokoloko85]

But I was told PS was gonna die every minute for the last 15 years. Funny during the PS2 it seemed to dipped, so this shit doesnt mean much really lol

 

[Tams]

No one really cares about or likes Concord, so can we please just not talk about it. Best to forget it even existed (not hard, though for some here apparently it is).

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Because as BlackTron already pointed out, other cancelled games cut their losses before release and likely none cost nearly as much as Concord

You're making assumptions that canceled games didn't cost more than Concord and were in development longer with larger teams.

I'm well aware of the cost of marketing a movie, but the point remains- none of those films brought in returns of less than $5 million.

What do the returns matter if the costs are significantly higher? You're not a serious person.

As for their profits, clearly Sony were profitable in other areas and that helped ameliorate the losses inflicted by Concord. But that doesn't change the reality that Concord was an unprecedented failure. There's no harm in acknowledging that rather than pretending it didn't happen.

So they should have been close to breaking even right? How do you increase your profit YoY with an unprecedented failure on the books?

 

[m14]

What do the returns matter if the costs are significantly higher? You're not a serious person.

Because we're talking about a game that cost Sony hundreds of millions of dollars and they saw just a 1% (at best) return on that. None of the films you listed are even close to being that disastrous. Nor can you even suggest what some of these mysterious "cancelled games" were that apparently cost way more than Concord.
And as for the "not a serious person" jibe- you're the one tying your self esteem to the success of a company that peaked in the last century. You should really get that in check before Sony inevitably get their lunch eaten again like they did by Apple with the iPod.

So they should have been close to breaking even right? How do you increase your profit YoY with an unprecedented failure on the books?

Scalping people for $800 consoles probably helps. You seem to think that because it didn't completely bankrupt Sony that Concord wasn't a huge failure.

 

[nial]

Scalping people for $800 consoles probably helps.

Q3 is not over yet, sir.

 

[Kerotan]

Man Sony was so under valued around the time the ps4 launched. Any gamer following the news would have known they had a brighter future.

 

[m14]

Q3 is not over yet, sir.

Thanks nial, that's a good point.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Because we're talking about a game that cost Sony hundreds of millions of dollars and they saw just a 1% (at best) return on that. None of the films you listed are even close to being that disastrous.

You're still ignoring marketing costs and purposefully.

Nor can you even suggest what some of these mysterious "cancelled games" were that apparently cost way more than Concord.

We don't know about most canceled games but Hyenas is an example of a canceled game that could have cost more than Concord. Doom 4 certainly cost more than Concord too...

And as for the "not a serious person" jibe- you're the one tying your self esteem to the success of a company that peaked in the last century. You should really get that in check before Sony inevitably get their lunch eaten again like they did by Apple with the iPod.


Scalping people for $800 consoles probably helps. You seem to think that because it didn't completely bankrupt Sony that Concord wasn't a huge failure.

That's all deflection man. I'm just focusing on facts and pointing out that you're off base (and you're doing it on purpose).

Concord failed, not sure anyone is denying that, but we have no idea how much it costs, but nothing actually suggests its the massive failure you think it is.

 

[m14]

You're still ignoring marketing costs and purposefully.



We don't know about most canceled games but Hyenas is an example of a canceled game that could have cost more than Concord. Doom 4 certainly cost more than Concord too...




That's all deflection man. I'm just focusing on facts and pointing out that you're off base (and you're doing it on purpose).

Concord failed, not sure anyone is denying that, but we have no idea how much it costs, but nothing actually suggests its the massive failure you think it is.

I'm not ignoring marketing costs. Even factoring them in those movies still lost less than Concord.

Hyenas is a decent example but the costs were rumoured to be $70-100 million, much lower than Concord's.
Not sure about Doom 4, as we know development costs were much less in that era and it was in production from 2007 to 2010. You could even argue that those costs were part of the development of Doom 2016.

Concord's failure has been well discussed here and elsewhere, it's not something I dreamed up.

I'll leave it there. I know there's a few posters who have fairly requested that I stop dragging this topic on so I'll respect those wishes.

 

[farmerboy]

PRAISE BE HERMEN HULST

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I'm not ignoring marketing costs. Even factoring them in those movies still lost less than Concord.

1. The standard formula for total budget is production budget * 2.5.
2. You have no idea how much Concord cost.

Hyenas is a decent example but the costs were rumoured to be $70-100 million, much lower than Concord's.

You're still working off of rumored costs. You again, have no idea how much Concord actually cost.

Not sure about Doom 4, as we know development costs were much less in that era and it was in production from 2007 to 2010. You could even argue that those costs were part of the development of Doom 2016.

See how you're making excuses. You have no idea if the assets from Concord will be reutilized in other games, but you'll make an excuse for Doom 4. Even if you want to lump Eternal in there, you're talking about a 13 year development cost for a full sized studio where Firewalk was a start up with a fraction of the workforce...

Concord's failure has been well discussed here and elsewhere, it's not something I dreamed up.

I'll leave it there. I know there's a few posters who have fairly requested that I stop dragging this topic on so I'll respect those wishes.

What you've dreamed up is the extent to which it was a failure, which simply doesn't add up. Yeah, man, you have problems.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

I'm a little sad Fromsoft might go to Sony. Nothing else to elaborate, though. It just is what it is. No use in being sad for very long. Nothing I can possibly do about it, anyway.

 

[Fabieter]

I just think it's funny that people think Totoki promoted Hermen Hulst if Concord was the "biggest media flop in history."

I hope Jason Schreier writes a book one day, because his actions have shown a complete lack of understanding of PlayStation's identity. Bringing in companies that have never worked with PlayStation before and wasting half a billion dollars—including the cost of acquiring a studio—for a terrible game is absolutely indefensible. His judgment has proven to be extremely poor, and he deserves to be removed from his position immediately. Alternatively, just make him the director of the Horizon franchise since that seems to be the only thing he cares about anyway.

 

[Jinxed]

I'd say trying to downplay the biggest gaming failure of all time in this manner is significantly funnier.

Yeah I mean losing 100 millions in 1983 on a single game is nothing. Concord is surely the worst failure of all time...

 

[Fabieter]

Yeah I mean losing 100 millions in 1983 on a single game is nothing. Concord is surely the worst failure of all time...

Et had a budget of 10m and actually made money.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I hope Jason Schreier writes a book one day, because his actions have shown a complete lack of understanding of PlayStation's identity. Bringing in companies that have never worked with PlayStation before and wasting half a billion dollars—including the cost of acquiring a studio—for a terrible game is absolutely indefensible. His judgment has proven to be extremely poor, and he deserves to be removed from his position immediately. Alternatively, just make him the director of the Horizon franchise since that seems to be the only thing he cares about anyway.

You need to get over yourself. Companies that have never worked with PlayStation?

What do you think the difference between buying a start up company and opening a new studio is? You're living in a fantasy.

Half a billion dollars? Where are you getting that? You're rounding up from Colin's ridiculous comments that were refuted by everyone in the industry (including Jason Schreier, who you brought up), yet you're still parroting them? Why? Because you want it to be true even though it isn't.

Most startups fail, literally, everyone knows this. That's another reality you think is lost on anyone except you. So why go with start ups? They're much cheaper than buying studios that are established and much faster than starting your own studio internally. Game development costs have increased and development time has also increased. It makes sense to buy some startups in order to fill out your pipeline. You say his judgement has been "extremely poor", so explain Helldivers 2 and Astro Bot?

Horizon is one of the most successful franchises in gaming history, whether you're personally a fan of it or not.

 

[Mattyp]

Sonys TVs are back in the game.

Still have my Sony CRT, all down hill since Koreans entered the market.

Happy for those who held shares, might soon make a profit after a quarter of a century.

 

[Jinxed]

Et had a budget of 10m and actually made money.

These mass returns quickly took their toll on Atari. The game, which was originally sold for around $50 at the time, was suddenly barely selling for a dollar. By the time Atari opted to completely remove the game from circulation, the company had lost approximately $100 million.

They paid 20-25 millions just for the licensing cost.

 

[Fabieter]

You need to get over yourself. Companies that have never worked with PlayStation?

What do you think the difference between buying a start up company and opening a new studio is? You're living in a fantasy.

Half a billion dollars? Where are you getting that? You're rounding up from Colin's ridiculous comments that were refuted by everyone in the industry (including Jason Schreier, who you brought up), yet you're still parroting them? Why? Because you want it to be true even though it isn't.

Most startups fail, literally, everyone knows this. That's another reality you think is lost on anyone except you. So why go with start ups? They're much cheaper than buying studios that are established and much faster than starting your own studio internally. Game development costs have increased and development time has also increased. It makes sense to buy some startups in order to fill out your pipeline. You say his judgement has been "extremely poor", so explain Helldivers 2 and Astro Bot?

Horizon is one of the most successful franchises in gaming history, whether you're personally a fan of it or not.

Before Herman Hulst's leadership, studios consistently had to prove their worth before being acquired by PlayStation. It wasn’t just handed to them—they earned it. Today, however, it seems like studios are being purchased without the same rigorous vetting process. Add to that the massive expenses tied to modern game development, including pre-rendered trailers, extensive marketing campaigns, and cross-promotions like the new Amazon series.

When you factor in seven years of development, the cost of acquiring the studio, and the sprawling marketing efforts, the overall budget is astronomically high. It’s hard to believe that the actual cost is anything less than staggering.

Frankly, Herman Hulst’s leadership seems questionable, and it’s time for a serious change. He deserves to be replaced, and the sooner, the better.

Fuck this guy

Yea Astro Bot is great and all but after destroying Japan studios I can't well no!

Helldivers 2? I probably also should give them credit for the original demons souls.

Let's see how thr second part of the generation goes now we will see more and more of hulst poor decision making.

 

[Klayzer]

The failure of Concord is overstated because gamers who hate Sony or Sony's direction have decided that one rare failure somehow defines the company.

Truth.