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[Fabieter]

Truth.

The flop would have never happened under a great manager unlike hulst.

 

[Klayzer]

The flop would have never happened under a great manager unlike hulst.

Cool. Games that flop, happens. News at 10.

 

[Fabieter]

Cool. Games that flop, happens. News at 10.

Not on that scale and not the point but yes that's true.

 

[TheGodfather07]

Cool. Games that flop, happens. News at 10.

You know what's the funny thing? When sony announced the live service game push and how they had like 10 in development, everyone was saying how they expect most of them to flop because its difficult to have success with new live service games. Yet the first flop has people going insane!! Did sony grow their single player portfolio in just a year or even a few years? No! It took a decade plus to get to that level.

 

[onnextflix5]

Shame the ps5 pro turned out to be garbage, hopefully a misstep they can learn from, it seems they are doing really well mostly because of Microsoft’s decline rather then their own performance, have to hand it to them tho, the ps5 is a great piece of hardware with a good software lineup and their investment in network services has paid off big time, it’s as good if not better then Xbox live,

 

[Three]

They paid 20-25 millions just for the licensing cost.

He's incorrectly using the budget for the movie and not the game. I'm pretty sure he thinks people are talking about the movie for some reason.

 

[Klayzer]

Not on that scale and not the point but yes that's true.

Games that flopped, got studios closed down as well. No matter how much importance you want to put on scale, this shit happens pretty regularly.

The devs did themselves no favors, antagonizing half of the buying public.

 

[Klayzer]

You know what's the funny thing? When sony announced the live service game push and how they had like 10 in development, everyone was saying how they expect most of them to flop because its difficult to have success with new live service games. Yet the first flop has people going insane!! Did sony grow their single player portfolio in just a year or even a few years? No! It took a decade plus to get to that level.

Let's call a spade a spade. It's primarily brought up from console warriors. Let them have their fun.

 

[Fabieter]

Games that flopped, got studios closed down as well. No matter how much importance you want to put on scale, this shit happens pretty regularly.

The devs did themselves no favors, antagonizing half of the buying public.

The devs did them also no favors for having an ugly artstyle and poor character design. Was hulst blinded while seeing the game before bringing it in house.

 

[Klayzer]

The devs did them also no favors for having an ugly artstyle and poor character design. Was hulst blinded while seeing the game before bringing it in house.

Okay. So Hulst underestimated the potential fall back. The decision itself didn't destroy the brand. It was a setback no doubt, but far from a crippling one.

 

[kurisu_1974]

Cool. Games that flop, happens. Film at 11.

ftfy

 

[Fabieter]

Okay. So Hulst underestimated the potential fall back. The decision itself didn't destroy the brand. It was a setback no doubt, but far from a crippling one.

Well with his judgement i expect fairgame to have the same quality next year

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Shame the ps5 pro turned out to be garbage, hopefully a misstep they can learn from, it seems they are doing really well mostly because of Microsoft’s decline rather then their own performance, have to hand it to them tho, the ps5 is a great piece of hardware with a good software lineup and their investment in network services has paid off big time, it’s as good if not better then Xbox live,

what is this post

 

[Klayzer]

what is this post

Some of these posters, live in some type of alt reality time-line.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Before Herman Hulst's leadership, studios consistently had to prove their worth before being acquired by PlayStation. It wasn’t just handed to them—they earned it. Today, however, it seems like studios are being purchased without the same rigorous vetting process. Add to that the massive expenses tied to modern game development, including pre-rendered trailers, extensive marketing campaigns, and cross-promotions like the new Amazon series.

Before... Key word. Times have changed and companies need to change with them. Again the increased development time has meant to deliver more games to the pipeline, you don't have the luxury of simply working with studios you've already worked with.

The fact that you think studios are earning something shows again that your mind is warped.

Again, there is no difference between standing up a studio and buying a start up other than the initial phase is different instead of spending tremendous recruiting hours trying to build a studio.

When you factor in seven years of development, the cost of acquiring the studio, and the sprawling marketing efforts, the overall budget is astronomically high. It’s hard to believe that the actual cost is anything less than staggering.

The first half the of the money wasn't on Sony's dime exclusively. Really limited marketing efforts too, especially with the game getting tossed so early.

Frankly, Herman Hulst’s leadership seems questionable, and it’s time for a serious change. He deserves to be replaced, and the sooner, the better.

Fuck this guy

Only from someone who doesn't know what they're talking about. You prove it time and time again.

Yea Astro Bot is great and all but after destroying Japan studios I can't well no!

More evidence that you don't know what you're talking about. Japan studios wasn't destroyed, it was never very good. Please show us how great Slitterhead is and where is GenDesign's latest game it's been 8 years plus at this point.

Helldivers 2? I probably also should give them credit for the original demons souls.

Let's see how thr second part of the generation goes now we will see more and more of hulst poor decision making.

You're clownish.

 

[Euler007]

I'm up 85% in my Sony investment. Just hurt to see the INTC line before it.

 

[Fabieter]

Before... Key word. Times have changed and companies need to change with them. Again the increased development time has meant to deliver more games to the pipeline, you don't have the luxury of simply working with studios you've already worked with.

The fact that you think studios are earning something shows again that your mind is warped.

Again, there is no difference between standing up a studio and buying a start up other than the initial phase is different instead of spending tremendous recruiting hours trying to build a studio.




The first half the of the money wasn't on Sony's dime exclusively. Really limited marketing efforts too, especially with the game getting tossed so early.



Only from someone who doesn't know what they're talking about. You prove it time and time again.



More evidence that you don't know what you're talking about. Japan studios wasn't destroyed, it was never very good. Please show us how great Slitterhead is and where is GenDesign's latest game it's been 8 years plus at this point.




You're clownish.

Can't wait for fairgame having the same faith. But knowing Sony he will likley getting the next promotion.

 

[Klayzer]

Well with his judgement i expect fairgame to have the same quality next year

And if it fails, he will be replaced I'm sure.

 

[Fabieter]

And if it fails, he will be replaced I'm sure.

It seems like he could be part of this thread, given how defensive some people are about Concord. Well, let's move on to the next 500 million being wasted. Cyrio.

 

[Klayzer]

It seems like he could be part of this thread, given how defensive some people are about Concord. Well, let's move on to the next 500 million being wasted. Cyrio.

So you just wanted to troll, go it.

 

[Fabieter]

So you just wanted to troll, go it.

No just some sarcasm for the mangement defense force .

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Can't wait for fairgame having the same faith. But knowing Sony he will likley getting the next promotion.

That you think the riskiest games in the portfolio are what Hulst will be judged on says so much about you...

When Sony first announced that they were planning live services games (12 at the time), many of us pointed out that all they really needed was for one of these games to hit. They already have that in Helldivers, which you discount because it doesn't match your narrative. One of the most profitable games in Sony history... and they haven't even really begun to hit the heights they can with that franchise.

 

[Fabieter]

That you think the riskiest games in the portfolio are what Hulst will be judged on says so much about you...

When Sony first announced that they were planning live services games (12 at the time), many of us pointed out that all they really needed was for one of these games to hit. They already have that in Helldivers, which you discount because it doesn't match your narrative. One of the most profitable games in Sony history... and they haven't even really begun to hit the heights they can with that franchise.

You mean a game that got greenlit by the time hulst was still in the middle of horizon zero down? Ofc I also would give him credit for bloodborne and demons souls.

Actually he was part of the decision making which almost killed helldivers 2.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

You mean a game that got greenlit by the time hulst was still in the middle of horizon zero down? Ofc I also would give him credit for bloodborne and demons souls.

Actually he was part of the decision making which almost killed helldivers 2.

You're just trolling at this point.

Helldivers 2 got double the development time. Who gets credit for that?

 

[Fabieter]

You're just trolling at this point.

Helldivers 2 got double the development time. Who gets credit for that?

Would love a source that hulst doubled development time.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Would love a source that hulst doubled development time.

Wait so you're willing to blame Hulst for Concord without a source, but unwilling to credit him for Helldivers 2, but you think you don't have a clear bias?

You're really close to going on ignore here.

 

[Fabieter]

Wait so you're willing to blame Hulst for Concord without a source, but unwilling to credit him for Helldivers 2, but you think you don't have a clear bias?

You're really close to going on ignore here.

Well we know that they were brought in under hulst. You diaclaim all sources that concord was expensive and have nothing for your claim that he doubled dev time for helldivers 2 and talk about bias .

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Well we know that they were brought in under hulst. You diaclaim all sources that concord was expensive and have nothing for your claim that he doubled dev time for helldivers 2 and talk about bias .

https://mp1st.com/news/helldivers-2...get-from-playstation-according-to-studio-boss

We had moving targets and moving targets is. It’s such a pitfall that’s easy to fall into. So in one, one of the reasons why we extended a project was that we made a really, really nice prototype of the game. And we agreed together with PlayStation that, you know what? If we just doubled the budget, it will be even better.

Being the greedy capitalist that I am, I of course said, yes, let’s do that. It sounds wonderful. And then many more decisions like that were made based on something that seemed good, but the proper consequences were not taken into consideration. What that means for building the game and organization. – Johan Pilestedt, Arrowhead Game Studios boss

"No insight I could share but I'd always be skeptical of:

A single source

Specially limited info that not every dev would know

Simply absurd numbers"

Jason Schreier on Concord $400 million budget rumor

Not Everyone Believes Concord's $400 Million Budget

But some agree that "toxic positivity" was to blame for at least part of its failure.

80.lv

However, not everyone believes this number. Kotaku's Ethan Gach couldn't confirm the budget, "but $400 million is not the number I've heard," he said. The head of GamesIndustry.biz, Christopher Dring, also doesn't think it's true because "no game has that dev budget."

"Concord didn’t even get any above-the-line marketing spend," he claimed, adding, "There’s just no way a game with half the dev team as Spider-Man 2 has a budget that big."

The Verge's Tom Warren joined the skepticism: "I'm amazed but also not amazed that publications have run with this number. You only have to look at ProbablyMonsters's funding to know it's nonsense."

 

[tmlDan]

The devs did them also no favors for having an ugly artstyle and poor character design. Was hulst blinded while seeing the game before bringing it in house.

why are you mad, did you have a large investment in the game? did you lose money? its weird being this attached lol

 

[Cyber_hunter026]

why are you mad, did you have a large investment in the game? did you lose money? its weird being this attached lol

Some people like sound of their own voices, this guy loves the smell of his own farts

 

[Klayzer]

Some people like sound of their own voices, this guy loves the smell of his own farts

Dude is itching to troll circlejerk with anyone. His bait is pretty weak though.

 

[Fabieter]

https://mp1st.com/news/helldivers-2...get-from-playstation-according-to-studio-boss

Not Everyone Believes Concord's $400 Million Budget

But some agree that "toxic positivity" was to blame for at least part of its failure.

80.lv

After prototyping, the project's budget was reportedly doubled, though it remains unclear exactly when that happened. The game was in development for nearly four years before Hermen Hulst took over. It’s hard to believe they would have spent such a long time purely on prototyping.

If the reported $400 million budget included the cost of acquiring the studio, then the figure isn’t that far-fetched. Additionally, depending on how much CGI they produced for the game, costs could have escalated significantly—high-quality CGI can be extremely expensive, with just two hours of production potentially costing around $50 million.

Taking all of this into account, it’s clear they likely wasted a significant amount of money. Even if the final cost wasn’t $400 million, it was probably close, especially if the studio acquisition was included.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

After prototyping, the project's budget was reportedly doubled, though it remains unclear exactly when that happened. The game was in development for nearly four years before Hermen Hulst took over. It’s hard to believe they would have spent such a long time purely on prototyping.

When he says the budget was doubled, he means the timeline for developing the game doubled. Helldivers 2 was in development for 8 years and 5 of that was under Hermen Hulst. Just stop it.

If the reported $400 million budget included the cost of acquiring the studio, then the figure isn’t that far-fetched. Additionally, depending on how much CGI they produced for the game, costs could have escalated significantly—high-quality CGI can be extremely expensive, with just two hours of production potentially costing around $50 million.

You can't pick and choose. the "report" was it was 400 million not including the studio purchase. So yes, everyone agrees that it is farfetched and sensationalized.

Now you're assuming the video was created in advance lol...

Taking all of this into account, it’s clear they likely wasted a significant amount of money. Even if the final cost wasn’t $400 million, it was probably close, especially if the studio acquisition was included.

You aren't taking anything into account. You're simply making stuff up in order to get to a conclusion that isn't supported by anyone.

 

[Klayzer]

When he says the budget was doubled, he means the timeline for developing the game doubled. Helldivers 2 was in development for 8 years and 5 of that was under Hermen Hulst. Just stop it.



You can't pick and choose. the "report" was it was 400 million not including the studio purchase. So yes, everyone agrees that it is farfetched and sensationalized.

Now you're assuming the video was created in advance lol...



You aren't taking anything into account. You're simply making stuff up in order to get to a conclusion that isn't supported by anyone.

Why are you devoting energy to him? He doesn't want a legitimate debate.

 

[Fabieter]

You can't pick and choose. the "report" was it was 400 million not including the studio purchase. So yes, everyone agrees that it is farfetched and sensationalized.

Now you're assuming the video was created in advance lol...

Haha sure thing they planned 3 seasons but ofc they would order those ultra expensive videos just all a day before they need it. Okay bro!

You aren't taking anything into account. You're simply making stuff up in order to get to a conclusion that isn't supported by anyone.

Strong words from someone who says five years of development of helldivers 2 was under hulst when he was 4 years and 2 monrh head of playstation studios. They said they budget got bigger not the dev time. They switched engines and that added to the costs.

Okay let's just wait for the second part of the generation where we can actually give him credit for good games instead of games which started pre production in like 2015. Jesus!

 

[Ronin_7]

Update:

ATH broke again as we speak as stock is flying.

 

[John Wick]

That I have no motivation to downplay what an unprecedented disaster Concord was?


A game that cost hundreds of millions of dollars to produce, lead to the closure of an entire studio and was only playable for two weeks.
Your defence seems to be that it isn't the biggest failure because it didn't bankrupt Sony. In reality Concord is likely the biggest media failure in history given what is cost to make versus how little money it recouped.

Is this your arguement? You don't even know what the game cost to make for a start. There have been far bigger media failures than this.

 

[GermanZepp]

 

[AJUMP23]

Have the investors heard about the one guy on Gaf that sold his PSN account?

 

[Seomel]

Kinda pointless saying it is the biggest failure in media when you don’t even know what the exact cost was for the game.

Move on.

Sony and their investors have.

I cant believe people are still going with 400m figure. Concord had investment of 200mil already from investors prior to sony buyout, sony spent additional 200mil on it up to closure.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Update:

ATH broke again as we speak as stock is flying.

People are going to be surprised once Sony hits a certain level in the stock market when they do a stock swap (partial cash) to acquire T2, leveraging their newfound market cap.

Strong PlayStation results over the next year and a half and new product launches like a PlayStation handheld and PC Store are going to massively boost their stock. This is why Totoki named two CEOs, to make it two people's missions to independently but cooperatively maximize results in two different business segments.

 

[IDKFA]

Man fuck all that show me something sony

Sony:

Spoiler

 

[CuteFaceJay]

Dang some folks got rugged during that dot com crash.

 

[Ryu Kaiba]

Sony's infested with woke
I'd short them.
its a matter of time.

 

[Fabieter]

Sony's infested with woke
I'd short them.
its a matter of time.

They went down today after the ND trailer so you up to something.

 

[Soodanim]

Can a mod please fix the thread title?

 

[yogaflame]

Okay that is a good news. Now I hope Sony will strengthen and give more funds to Japan studio and Asia developers both 1st and 2nd party.

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

Alright, fund more remasters/remakes.

Let's start with Vagrant Story.

PS classics needs the lotr games and Harry Potter stuff first

 

[John Wick]

I'm not ignoring marketing costs. Even factoring them in those movies still lost less than Concord.

Hyenas is a decent example but the costs were rumoured to be $70-100 million, much lower than Concord's.
Not sure about Doom 4, as we know development costs were much less in that era and it was in production from 2007 to 2010. You could even argue that those costs were part of the development of Doom 2016.

Concord's failure has been well discussed here and elsewhere, it's not something I dreamed up.

I'll leave it there. I know there's a few posters who have fairly requested that I stop dragging this topic on so I'll respect those wishes.

How do you know how much Concord cost? You keep on mentioning hundreds of millions of dollars but haven't provided the proof?
Guys just ignore this troll. When a guy mentions MS profits in his arguements it's time to let it go. The biggest game/media failure was the Xbox360 RROD.

 

[m14]

How do you know how much Concord cost? You keep on mentioning hundreds of millions of dollars but haven't provided the proof?
Guys just ignore this troll. When a guy mentions MS profits in his arguements it's time to let it go. The biggest game/media failure was the Xbox360 RROD.

It was widely reported that Concord costs hundreds of millions. Sony have no incentive to confirm that.

The RROD was a hardware issue early in the life cycle of a successful console. It is in no way comparable to Concord's unprecedented failure as a video game / entertainment product.