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Space: The Final Frontier

N

noah111

Still Alive
Anyone see this?
mg20327185.100-2_300.jpg


Looks awesome... if it's not a camera fault :lol
 
N

noah111

Still Alive
Sorry for the double post, but some new shots have surfaced of the impact on Jupiter;

hs-2009-23-a-web_print.jpg

[Story on CNN]

It's the best shot taken so far, but even in amatuer photography you can make it out quite clearly;

3754736847_259ca28973_o.jpg


gofreak said:
F me.

Sorry to be an ignoramous, but being a gas giant, how far down is the 'core' of Jupiter?

It seems it impacted pretty close to the 'outer' area of the planet. I always figured Jupiter was just all gas with a tiny core at the middle or something.
Click to expand...
No one really knows but it is theorised that the core is around the size of earth, but because the atmosphere is so incredibly dense and thick an comet would burn up like it would in out atmosphere, except there it leakes a cloud or 'scar' I guess.
 
G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
F me.

Sorry to be an ignoramous, but being a gas giant, how far down is the 'core' of Jupiter?

It seems it impacted pretty close to the 'outer' area of the planet. I always figured Jupiter was just all gas with a tiny core at the middle or something.
 
LQX

LQX

Member
gofreak said:
F me.

Sorry to be an ignoramous, but being a gas giant, how far down is the 'core' of Jupiter?

It seems it impacted pretty close to the 'outer' area of the planet. I always figured Jupiter was just all gas with a tiny core at the middle or something.
Click to expand...

They say over 1,000 earths can fit in Jupiter so its damn far down. Earths core is about 4,000 miles down.
 
E

Extollere

Sucks at poetry
2dmi4hu.jpg


Astronomers have gained their sharpest ever view of a supergiant star that could be on the verge of exploding as a supernova. They zoomed in on red Betelgeuse in Orion to discover a giant bubble boiling on its surface and a huge plume of gas that is bigger than the solar system.

Two independent teams used the European Southern Observatory's imaginatively named Very Large Telescope in Chile to study Betelgeuse close up. Their images provide new clues to explain how such enormous stars shed material at such a tremendous rate.

Betelgeuse lies 640 light-years away but is one of the brightest stars in the night sky. It is also one of the biggest and most luminous stars known, being nearly 1,000 times larger than the Sun and shining more than 100,000 times more brightly.

It is only a few million years old - a mere youngster compared to the four billion-year-old Sun - but is near the end of its life, astronomers believe.

It seems doomed to blow itself to bits in a supernova blast that would make it brighter than the Moon and visible in broad daylight.

The plume extends to at least six times the diameter of Betelgeuse, corresponding to the distance between the Sun and Neptune. The star itself is so big that it would almost stretch out to the orbit of Jupiter if it was our sun.
Click to expand...

http://news.skymania.com/2009/07/betelgeuse-seen-in-stormy-close-up.html

Daaamn. We're about to have a new ornament in the sky! :D (I hope)
 
K

Kaako

Felium Defensor
Birth of a Star![no 56K]

Explanation: What does a star look like when it is forming? The prototypical example is the variable star T Tauri, visible as the bright orange star near the image center. The orange star centered in this remarkable telescopic skyview is T Tauri, prototype of the class of T Tauri variable stars. Surrounding T Tauri is a dusty yellow cosmic cloud named the Hind's Variable Nebula (NGC 1555/1554). Over 400 light-years away, at the edge of a molecular cloud, both star and nebula are seen to vary significantly in brightness but not necessarily at the same time, adding to the mystery of the intriguing region. T Tauri stars are now generally recognized as young -- less than a few million years old -- sun-like stars still in the early stages of formation. To further complicate the picture, infrared observations indicate that T Tauri itself is part of a multiple star system. Surprisingly, due to a close gravitational pass near one of these stars, T Tauri may now be headed out of the system. The dramatic color image above captures a region that spans about 4 light-years.
Click to expand...

How can you look at that and not be in complete and utter awe? Simply amazing.
 
G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
How the f- could be we not get back to the moon in 11 years time?

I think government-funded space programmes are just turning into a giant facepalm without a war or something to mobilise whole nations behind it.

Sooner we apply consumerism and commercialism to space flight, the better. That's the only way I see real progress being made in the short term.

We need also, IMO, to look at permanent long term settlement of space (as opposed to any one planet). Humanity needs a significant offworld presence. The ISS etc. should be just the beginning of settlement of *space*. Forget settlement on mars or the moon or whatever....we should have a self-sufficient and growing permanent presence somewhere else in the solar system, in the void, not on a planet.

I'm hoping commercial spaceflight will change a lot of things.
 
D

DarkJediKnight

Member
As I have said this this thread before, the Space Race will not take effect until some Uber Billionaire decides he can make more money by extracting precious commodities from passing asteriods. Then it will be interstellar gold rush.
 
E

Extollere

Sucks at poetry
DarkJediKnight said:
As I have said this this thread before, the Space Race will not take effect until some Uber Billionaire decides he can make more money by extracting precious commodities from passing asteriods. Then it will be interstellar gold rush.
Click to expand...

There is a whole lot more of precious commodities out in space than there are here on Earth. Once you have an abundance of any given commodity it becomes less rare, or less valuable, so I don't know how long it would last for really. Although I'm sure the idea still helps.

Also..
Averon said:
Some interesting/good news:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17476-ion-engine-could-one-day-power-39day-trips-to-mars.html

Let's hope this is successful.
Click to expand...

To optimise efficiency, the rocket's second stage then heats the ions to about a million degrees, a temperature comparable to that at the centre of the sun.
Click to expand...

There is something about this I don't quite understand. If the fuel is being heated to a million degrees, what on earth is keeping it stable? I mean if you have a million degrees inside your engine, wouldn't the engine also melt? I know that it works, I just can't figure out how..
 
W

Walshicus

Member
Extollere said:
There is something about this I don't quite understand. If the fuel is being heated to a million degrees, what on earth is keeping it stable? I mean if you have a million degrees inside your engine, wouldn't the engine also melt? I know that it works, I just can't figure out how..
Click to expand...
If something is at a million degrees it means it's ionised. If it's ionised it can be contained by magnets.
 
S

speedpop

Has problems recognising girls
DarkJediKnight said:
As I have said this this thread before, the Space Race will not take effect until some Uber Billionaire decides he can make more money by extracting precious commodities from passing asteriods. Then it will be interstellar gold rush.
Click to expand...
That's basically it. In a way I see it turning into something similar to Planetes where corporations who can find profit in space (and not just sight-seeing adventures) will be at the forefront of exploration, sadly.
 
T

Twig

Banned
Extollere said:
There is a whole lot more of precious commodities out in space than there are here on Earth. Once you have an abundance of any given commodity it becomes less rare, or less valuable, so I don't know how long it would last for really. Although I'm sure the idea still helps.
Click to expand...
Right, but like the gold rush he compared it to, it should do wonders for space exploration. Do you think exploration of Western America would have gone the same had it not been for the gold rush? d:

A sort of jump start, if you will. (More metaphors!)

I say all this as an ignorant bystander. It just makes sense is all.
 
T

teruterubozu

Member
Man, what's up with amateur astronomers spotting all the cool things lately (like above and the scar on Jupiter)? I gotta start getting my Dob outside again!
 
O

Orgun

Member
Extollere said:
2dmi4hu.jpg
Click to expand...

I see this image and I see what looks like a Galactic Rocking Horse thats just been RPG'd in the face o_O

Some new desktop quality images from NASA's image of the day



Layers of Earth's atmosphere, brightly colored as the sun sets, are featured in this image taken by the STS-127 crew on the Earth-orbiting space shuttle Endeavour. This image was taken on July 29, 2009, one day before the shuttle landed, completing a 16-day, 6.5-million mile journey.
Click to expand...



Seen in the mirrored helmet visor of astronaut Christopher Cassidy is astronaut Tom Marshburn on the STS-127 mission's fourth spacewalk. The two teamed up again on July 27 for the STS-127 crew's fifth and final spacewalk. Eleven astronauts and cosmonauts remained inside the International Space Station and the shuttle to which it was docked, while the two suited astronauts continued work on the orbital outpost.
Click to expand...
 
C

cjdunn

Member
This pic, using the artist's render, shows the size of Betelgeuse (the scale on the right, 1 AU = distance from Earth to the Sun = 93 million miles):
bet4.jpg


Discovery being rolled out to the launch pad for flight STS-128, planned to launch on or after August 25th.
376274main_image_1438_800-600.jpg
 
A

Averon

Member
So the presidential panel formed to determine NASA's future have 7 options for Obama to consider.

http://www.space.com/news/090805-human-spaceflight-options.html

Presidential Panel Narrows Options for NASA's Future
By Tariq Malik
Managing Editor
posted: 05 August 2009
06:51 pm ET

A White House panel tasked with reevaluating NASA's plans for future space exploration has begun culling a list of potential options - one that ranges from staying the current course to taking direct aim at sending humans to Mars.

The 10-member committee overseeing the Review for U.S. Human Space Flight Plans has trimmed a larger list of 3,000 options down to about seven general scenarios, which it plans to cull even further before presenting them to President Barack Obama later this month.

"We have our work cut out for us," the committee's chairman Norman Augustine, former Lockheed Martin CEO, said Wednesday during a televised meeting in Washington, D.C.

NASA's current plan is to retire its aging space shuttle fleet in 2010 after completing construction of the International Space Station and replace it with a new Orion vehicle. Orion and its Ares I rocket are slated to begin operational flights in 2015 as NASA's larger plan to return humans to the moon by 2020. A heavy-lift Ares V rocket is also planned to launch lunar landers and other heavy cargo.

Potential options

Committee member Edward Crawley, an MIT professor, said that only three of the potential scenarios under review by the committee take into account NASA's exploration budget, now pegged at about $80 billion total through 2020. That's about $28 billion less than what the agency expected when it chose the Orion and Ares rocket plan.

Those three options include:

1. NASA Baseline Plan: Stretch out the schedule for NASA's current Constellation program goals to build and fly Orion and the Ares rockets within the budget available, retire the shuttle fleet in 2011, and end United States involvement in the 16-country International Space Station in 2015. Rely on international partners for crew and cargo transport until Orion and U.S. commercial flights are available.

2. Space Station Focused: Retire the shuttle fleet in 2011, but extend space station operation through 2020. Rely on international partners for crew and cargo transport until Orion and Ares I rockets, or commercial flight, are available.

"This would be robust utilization of the space station, but allows exploration to move off into the later distance future," said Crawley, who leads the committee's subgroup studying destinations for human space exploration. "It's a limiting case."

3. Dash Out of Low Earth Orbit: This option retains the shuttle fleet's 2011 retirement and the 2015 deadline for U.S. involvement in the space station, but eliminates the Ares I rocket entirely in order to focus on the heavy-lift Ares V rocket, which could then be used to launch Orion flights to lunar orbit, near-Earth asteroids or even planetary flybys. International partners would provide crew and cargo transport until the larger Ares V comes online.

The "dash" option is aimed at launching manned missions beyond low-Earth orbit as fast as possible, "therefore it makes no sense for us to do anything other than rely on international partners and commercial [companies] for crew access," Crawley said.

More expensive scenarios

The remaining scenarios under the committee's review would likely exceed or equal the current budget planned for NASA's exploration goals, Crawley said. They range from a more direct repurposing of space shuttle technology to sending humans straight to Mars, though all could set the stage for potential in-orbit refueling capabilities.

Those options include:

4. More Directly-Shuttle Derived System: This scenario calls for flying the space shuttle through 2015 and eventually replacing it with a system that more heavily draws on the shuttle hardware, like its external tank and twin solid rocket boosters. A potential Side-Mount Shuttle, which would use the tank and boosters to launch a cargo pod or crew capsule instead of a reusable orbiter, is one such plan. The shuttle would fly beyond 2011 at a rate of up to two flights a year and the space station would fly until 2020. Eventually, commercial crew launch services are envisioned.

5. Deep Space: This option would retire the shuttle fleet in 2011 and extend space station operations through 2020. It suggests developing U.S. crew launch capability as a backup to services provided by international partners and commercial interests. The focus would be building a heavy-lift vehicle capability of launching astronauts on lunar orbital missions, near-Earth asteroid missions and planetary flybys.

6. Lunar Global: The shuttle replacement plans for this scenario are similar to those for the Deep Space option, but the fleet would still retire in 2011 with the space station continuing through 2020. Instead of setting up a short-duration outpost on the moon, however, the aim would be for extended stays for more exploration.

"This would prepare us to take the next step to Mars, having spent some time on the moon," Crawley said.

7. Mars Direct: The final option under the committee's eye largely skips the moon and focuses on the sending astronauts directly to Mars. Like others, it includes retiring the shuttle fleet by 2011 and extending the space station through 2020. International partners and commercial companies would provide crew launch services while NASA develops a fleet of Ares V rockets to launch crew and cargo to Mars. The plan would only send humans to the moon or near-Earth asteroids in order to test hardware for the Mars mission.

With their handful of scenarios in hand, the spaceflight review committee plans to meet Aug. 12 for one final public meeting to discuss the final options before submitting a final report at the end of the month. Some committee members Wednesday said NASA, and the United States in general, should choose to tackle the most challenging projects in space.

Bohdan Bejmuk, a former Boeing manager leading one of the committee's subgroups, said that while flying in space is always hard, getting to low Earth orbit is slightly easier than reaching the moon, or moving out toward Mars. Buying commercial launch services to fly crew and cargo to low Earth orbit, he explained, would free NASA's top minds to target more lofty goals.

"NASA has brilliant people," Bejmuk said. "Get attention of these brilliant people on the harder tasks, and think of buying the easier tasks from [commercial] industry. "NASA would show off their skills by doing the hard stuff...I think that process would elevate NASA in stature in America."
Click to expand...


I think any sort of direct to Mars options is foolish. The systems and technology needed for a viable manned trip to Mars needs to be tested. Establishing a moon base will do wonders to prepare us for a Mars mission. Also, any option that kills our involvement with the ISS is also foolish. We spent too much time and money to abandon it now, especially now that it's near completion.Because of that, I think option 6 is the best choice.
 
V

Veidt

Blasphemer who refuses to accept bagged milk as his personal savior
The Universe is so magnificient. That's all I can say. Amazing.
 
D

dmann

Member
Competition is key, until China or Russia lands a man on the moon or attempt a Mars mission themselves, the U.S. will continue to take its sweet time in space exploration. Only then, will NASA get the funding they need.
 
M

mackaveli

Member
i got a quick question. Might be stupid but I'm curious.

This is an example. Let's say we can travel 5 million light years away from Earth in a span of 5 minutes. If we traveled to this point and back to Earth. Will only 10 minutes pass? Do we know the answer to this or is it a mystery?
 
D

Dr Zhivago

Member
mackaveli said:
i got a quick question. Might be stupid but I'm curious.

This is an example. Let's say we can travel 5 million light years away from Earth in a span of 5 minutes. If we traveled to this point and back to Earth. Will only 10 minutes pass? Do we know the answer to this or is it a mystery?
Click to expand...

Difficult to say, because FTL travel is thought to be forbidden under the current understanding of physics. So yes, it's a mystery :O
 
S

Sibylus

Banned
I say eff it all and do number 7. We've been lazing around long enough, let's do something improbable in the same spirit as the moon landings. It was 1969 then, and now we've got this impossible attitude lingering over everything.

Wtf, Earf.
 
F

fallout

Member
mackaveli said:
i got a quick question. Might be stupid but I'm curious.

This is an example. Let's say we can travel 5 million light years away from Earth in a span of 5 minutes. If we traveled to this point and back to Earth. Will only 10 minutes pass? Do we know the answer to this or is it a mystery?
Click to expand...
Time dilation is a fairly well-known phenomenon these days (GPS devices take it into account, for example). Assuming you could travel at that speed, less time would pass for you than someone who stayed on Earth. In other words, if you had a twin and left them behind on Earth for the duration of your near-light-speed travels, they would be older than you when you got back.

It would be fairly simple to figure out by how much, as well ... I just don't feel like digging out the numbers right now.

EDIT: I totally misread that. As Dr. Zhivago says, I'm pretty sure that's computationally impossible, in a physical sense. Or maybe not? I'd have to give it some more thought. Either way, my case still holds true for speed-of-light and near-speed-of-light velocities.
 
Buggy Loop

Buggy Loop

Gold Member
Botolf said:
I say eff it all and do number 7. We've been lazing around long enough, let's do something improbable in the same spirit as the moon landings. It was 1969 then, and now we've got this impossible attitude lingering over everything.

Wtf, Earf.
Click to expand...

Yea, im almost hoping for that option, space exploration needs the excitement back, not adding a station module one at a time over nearly a decade. The robot missions were awesome but it'll never gather the data a human can do in just 1 day.
 
S

Spire

Subconscious Brolonging
The immediate future of NASA doesn't look too bright, but there are plenty of things to look forward to. The new super telescopes in construction right now or the recently launched Kepler Mission, for example, will probably reveal more cool stuff than any physical exploration NASA would do.
 
D

DarkJediKnight

Member
Dr Zhivago said:
Difficult to say, because FTL travel is thought to be forbidden under the current understanding of physics. So yes, it's a mystery :O
Click to expand...

Yea, as of our understanding. Light is constant and there is no such thing as faster than light at this point. Some people assume that because some galaxies are moving away at faster than light means the law doesn't work. When in fact, when the galaxies move (less than FTL) it seems like it's moving faster when it's not.

It's like 2 cars on opposite lanes travelling at 100mph. At the point of intersection, it's faster than 100mph and the distance they cover from one car to another is faster than a single car travelling at 100mph.

Now, in terms of FTL travel. 2 ways that we may look at:

1. Warp Drive to bend space and time and travel within its own warp field, expanding and contracting space. At this point we don't know how that would really work. There are some interesting math and hypotheses to calculate it might be possible over time. Although I would wonder how to avoid the debris that space is littered with.

2. Jumpgate/Wormholes. Space is still too much of a mystery. Being able to discover natural wormholes that may take us thousands of lightyears away is very intruiging. At the same time, being able to artificially induce a wormhole and co-ordinate to a specific location is even more staggering. Probably about as much of a mystery as a Cell phone would be 200 years ago.
 
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