• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Space: The Final Frontier

S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
fallout said:
Just to clarify that a little (while making a couple simplifications--bear with me physicists). What you're looking at is the radiation given off by galaxies. The galaxies in the red region are moving away from us (which is expected, the universe is expanding) and the ones in the blue region are moving closer to us. The fact that the ones in our direction of motion are moving faster than the relative speed of the expansion of the universe is just a little strange.
Click to expand...


Just sounds like stuff closer to us is more energetic, which makes sense if it's expanding outwards in every direction from us. Which it appears to be. Less mass, energy and gravity in the outlying areas. All of which can be accelerants and deccelerants.
 
S

SuperBonk

Member
OuterWorldVoice said:
Just sounds like stuff closer to us is more energetic, which makes sense if it's expanding outwards in every direction from us. Which it appears to be. Less mass, energy and gravity in the outlying areas. All of which can be accelerants and deccelerants.
Click to expand...
Nah. The stuff moving away from us gets redshifted while the stuff moving towards us gets blueshifted. It has very little to do with their actual energies.
 
C

Crazymoogle

Member
abstract alien said:
How could something such as a wormhole even be productive if, upon reaching the other side, light speed would still be needed to navigate? Hmmm, the wormhole could get us there, but we would be "stuck", unable to explore even a minute section of space without completely destroying our way back to the life we left behind.

*scratches head* What would an ideal situation be, if energy wasn't an issue?
Click to expand...

Well, there's a difference between a natural wormhole and some sort of technology to create one. Ideally, you could dial-an-exit and then come out in the sort of range where ion propulsion could get you where you need to go. Obviously it's not much help if it drops you outside of the local cluster, but maybe you can then re-dial based on the math from your new location, and sort of hop-step to orbit.

This is a bit dangerous, but it's also an ideal situation because you only have to worry about the beginning and end points, and not the whole travel inbetween. The biggest risk in a moon trip isn't necessarily the rocket to space; it's the number of days in space where the constant exposure to danger could result in something going wrong.

A static wormhole is less useful except for general space exploration and last-ditch cases of "let's spread around civilization", unless you could build some sort of communications network around it.

As for the other bit of science fiction:

"Warp" technology relies on the idea of squishing space-time, so in a situation with that, theoretically you could just fly around at rocket or ion speed, but squish space enough to make it to your destination in short order. Again, less risk, although such an idea could have some troubling effects on collisions.
 
N

Norml

Member
UltimaPooh said:
Yo Space GAF... Quick question.

I noticed in the Apollo 11 photos that you can't see stars from the lunar surface in the pictures. I'm just curious if there is an explination for this, especially if it's official. No I'm not insinuating that we haven't been to the moon, I'm just curious as to what the answer is for this.

20stwuh.jpg
Click to expand...

Another strange thing about that pic and others like it, is how come it has no disturbance under it from the decent engine.And why there seems not a speck of anything in or on the bowl like feet.

rh7bkj.jpg
 
F

fallout

Member
Norml said:
Another strange thing about that pic and others like it, is how come it has no disturbance under it from the decent engine.And why there seems not a speck of anything in or on the bowl like feet.

http://i32.tinypic.com/rh7bkj.jpg
Click to expand...
From Wikipedia.

No crater should be expected. The Descent Propulsion System was throttled very far down during the final landing. The Lunar Module was no longer rapidly decelerating, so the descent engine only had to support the module's own weight, diminished by the 1/6 g lunar gravity and by the near exhaustion of the descent propellants. At landing, the engine thrust divided by the nozzle exit area is only about 10 kilopascals (1.5 PSI).​

Also, hilariously enough:

In fact, a blast crater was measured under the Apollo 11 Lunar Module using shadow lengths of the descent engine bell and estimates of the amount that the landing gear had compressed and how deep the lander footpads had pressed into the lunar surface and it was found that the engine had eroded between 4 and 6 inches of regolith out from underneath the engine bell during the final descent and landing.​
 
D

demon

I don't mean to alarm you but you have dogs on your face
Norml said:
Another strange thing about that pic and others like it, is how come it has no disturbance under it from the decent engine.And why there seems not a speck of anything in or on the bowl like feet.

rh7bkj.jpg
Click to expand...
Why would there be? There's no atmosphere, hence you can't blow anything away.
 
J

Jamesfrom818

Banned
jiggle said:
How gorgeous is Amy Mainzer on The Universe??? And smart to boot :eek:
Click to expand...

I love Amy Mainzer but I think a lot of it is good make up by the show's crew because any picture I see of her on the internet just doesn't match up to her appearances on The Universe.

I'd still head over to JPL and fuck her brains out though.
 
H

Hootie

Member
Jamesfrom818 said:
I'd still head over the JPL and fuck her brains out though.
Click to expand...

:lol

Well I'm applying to a couple of schools that offer a "3/2 Engineering" program where I go to the liberal arts school for 3 years then transfer to an elite engineering school for the last 2 years, ending with me getting a BA from the lib. arts school and a BS from the eng. school. Lucky for me, one of the eng. choices is Caltech. :D

This of course is assuming I am accepted to either of the 3/2 LACs I apply to...
 
abstract alien

abstract alien

Member
Crazymoogle said:
Well, there's a difference between a natural wormhole and some sort of technology to create one. Ideally, you could dial-an-exit and then come out in the sort of range where ion propulsion could get you where you need to go. Obviously it's not much help if it drops you outside of the local cluster, but maybe you can then re-dial based on the math from your new location, and sort of hop-step to orbit.

This is a bit dangerous, but it's also an ideal situation because you only have to worry about the beginning and end points, and not the whole travel inbetween. The biggest risk in a moon trip isn't necessarily the rocket to space; it's the number of days in space where the constant exposure to danger could result in something going wrong.

A static wormhole is less useful except for general space exploration and last-ditch cases of "let's spread around civilization", unless you could build some sort of communications network around it.

As for the other bit of science fiction:

"Warp" technology relies on the idea of squishing space-time, so in a situation with that, theoretically you could just fly around at rocket or ion speed, but squish space enough to make it to your destination in short order. Again, less risk, although such an idea could have some troubling effects on collisions.
Click to expand...
Thanks a lot for the info, its really enlightening. This thread makes me wonder how our current physics models even exist. On a slightly unrelated note, I saw a program that discussed the natural phenomenon of having subatomic particles literally disappear and reappear in a different location instantly. It sounds simple enough, but thinking about how this could work without destroying whatever it left behind had me a bit flabbergasted.

Weird stuff, if true.
 
L

Lucky Forward

Member
NASA Seeks "Pillownauts"

Horizontal for science

NASA is looking for 34 people to lie in bed for 60 days to simulate weightlessness in long-distance missions

By Frank D. Roylance

Baltimore Sun reporter

September 11, 2009

Ever wake up and wish you could just stay in bed and still get paid? This may be your best shot. NASA scientists are looking for 34 people (including 10 women) willing to spend 60 days in bed for science - and $13,800.

And they do mean STAY in bed. Subjects must spend every minute of those two months in a bed, with the head tilted down 6 degrees. You can have your laptop, books, visitors and TV. But you'll have to eat, sleep, shower and give, um, "specimens" as required, all lying down.

Oh yes, and you'll have to go to Texas. Soon.

It's all to help scientists learn more about the effects of long-duration space flights without the expense of launching people into orbit. Previous studies have found that prolonged, head-down bed rest is a pretty good way to simulate the troublesome effects of weightlessness.

"We see bone loss in the range of 1 to 1.5 percent per month of bed rest - similar to what we see in astronauts," said Ronita Cromwell, the NASA Flight Analogs Project scientist. "We see fluid [loss] on the order of 12 percent. ... We also see muscle atrophy and deconditioning similar to what astronauts experience."

By tracking such changes in their bed-bound "pillownauts," NASA scientists hope to develop ways for astronauts to counteract these effects so they can return to Earth - or reach Mars - in good health, both physically and mentally.

It's not all bad.

The best part for Heather Archuletta was "loads of free time," she said. "I got a lot of work done, I read a lot of books. I even started learning sign language." Then there's that hourlong massage every other day.

She reported for 60 days in bed at the University of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston last summer. But after 50 days, her NASA ward was evacuated, along with everyone else on Galveston Island, as Hurricane Ike approached.

Archuletta, 39, is an Austin computer contractor with no spouse or kids. So when a friend suggested she hole up in bed for a two-month NASA study, it didn't sound so crazy.

"I knew there would be some pretty serious getting-my-body-back-in-shape afterward. But it seemed like a quiet way to spend a couple of months and do something for the space program," she said.

Cromwell said test subjects must be healthy nonsmokers, ages 24 to 55. They can't be on any medications for chronic conditions. After a phone screening, they're flown to Texas for two weeks of hands-on physical and psychological tests before the bed rest begins.

Archuletta was surprised that some of her fellow test subjects left small children at home to participate. Some did it for the space program, some for the money.

Some candidates wash out before ever getting under the sheets. "You must be in extremely good shape," said Archuletta, a runner and swimmer who has also played soccer and hockey. "Your body's going to degrade. You have to be healthy enough to withstand that."

One more thing: "You can't be squeamish about needles," she said. In the course of the program "there are probably 20 blood draws. You gotta have good veins."

Once in bed, the hard part begins.

"Almost everybody gets sick at the beginning," Archuletta said. Head down, with the weight taken off the legs and spine, dizziness and back pain are common. "The blood rushes to your head. On days two, three or four my teeth were throbbing, and I couldn't turn my head without getting dizzy."

After a few days her body began to adjust, just as the astronauts do. "Your body ... says, 'This is our new reality, let's run with it.' "

Well, not "run" exactly. There are games, social events, trips outdoors and to the showers, and lots of tests. But they're all horizontal, on wheels. Bodily functions are carried out in bedpans.

Personal time is spent on the computer, seeing visitors, watching TV, reading or working. Archuletta finished several Web page designs and updates for customers - all lying down.

"The worst part for me was probably the length of time. The sickness passes, and the testing is really interesting. But toward the halfway point I thought, 'Wow. What have I gotten myself into?' You gotta be really dedicated to it."
Click to expand...
 
Bitmap Frogs

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
Good news everyone!

Armadillo Aerospace (that's Carmack's company - yes, that Carmack) succesfully completed the qualification towards the level one northop-grunman x-prize. That's a one million dollar prize! If none of the two competing teams manages to qualify by the end of the year, the prize will be claimed by the folks at Armadillo.

Here's a youtube of the second flight (qualification requires two flights), complete with even a UFO appeareance at around 2:12): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuJ_jASXMVY

Their next step is to chose either a quad cluster of the module featured on that video or a twin configuration for a suborbital flight goal.
 
S

speedpop

Has problems recognising girls
That was cool. It was awesome seeing the scale of the thing at the end, I didn't know it was that big :lol
 
W

Windu

never heard about the cat, apparently
awesome. Isn't it level two though? I thought they completed level one sometime last year.
 
L

laserbeam

Banned
bloomberg said:
Lawmakers Criticize Obama Space Panel for Downplaying Moon Plan

By Jeff Bliss

Sept. 15 (Bloomberg) -- Lawmakers pushed back today against a U.S. presidential panel’s conclusion that NASA can’t afford to return astronauts to the moon by 2020 with a new rocket and spacecraft and should instead consider another plan.

“I’m pretty angry,” said Representative Gabrielle Giffords, an Arizona Democrat who chairs a House space subcommittee. “We’ve been given a set of alternatives that almost look like cartoons.”

The U.S. Human Space Flight Plans Committee has said the National Aeronautics and Space Administration should consider using current space shuttle technology to cut costs for future missions. The shuttle dates from the 1970s. The panel also suggested that the U.S. look at more ambitious destinations, such as asteroids or flyovers of a Martian moon.

Norman Augustine, chairman of the panel, defended the summary of its findings sent to the White House earlier this month. One of those recommendations is to continue the current program, said Augustine, former chief executive of aerospace contractor Lockheed Martin Corp based in Bethesda, Maryland.

“I respect your feelings,” Augustine said to Gifford during a hearing of the House Science and Technology Committee in Washington. “I must question your facts.”

Constellation, NASA’s program to build a rocket and Apollo-like capsule that could support a crew of four, has suffered technological setbacks. Members of the Augustine panel have said it would take five to six years to build.

To continue Constellation, NASA needs an additional $3 billion a year, according to the panel.

“The current program that’s being pursued is not executable,” Augustine said.

Space Station

The next-generation Ares I rocket and Orion space capsule likely won’t be ready to fly astronauts and cargo to the International Space Station until at least 2017, two years beyond the current schedule, according to the panel, whose members include former astronaut Sally Ride.

Using Orion to fly to the orbiting outpost is a step toward a lunar mission.

Augustine said today that NASA will need $2.5 billion alone to continue flying the space shuttle, which is scheduled to stop operating next year, so the U.S. wouldn’t have to rely on Russia to ferry astronauts to the space station.

Representative Ralph Hall of Texas, senior Republican on House science panel, said the problem isn’t NASA’s direction.

“Why don’t we just fund the programs we’ve agreed to,” he said.

The 2020 date for a lunar mission was set by President George W. Bush as part of a strategic shift to return NASA to deep-space missions with astronauts. Obama endorsed the timeline in a budget request earlier this year.
Click to expand...

Glad to see there is some resistance to this horseshit 2028-2030 crap
 
C

CrushDance

Banned
I just spent the last week watching all of Star Trek: Voyager and some of the best from DS9/TNG along with Sunshine. And I'm just blown away by all that is out there in our universe, and maybe even beyond that we know nothing of.

It's kind of scary to be honest yet really humbling as I reaffirm how insignificant we are in the overall universe...send chills down my spine.

Seriously guys, listen to "The surface of the sun" from Sunshine while browsing this thread. You'll really appreciate these pictures and information more.

Such a shame that we'll never get to explore it all.
 
D

DarkJediKnight

Member
CrushDance said:
I just spent the last week watching all of Star Trek: Voyager and some of the best from DS9/TNG along with Sunshine. And I'm just blown away by all that is out there in our universe, and maybe even beyond that we know nothing of.

It's kind of scary to be honest yet really humbling as I reaffirm how insignificant we are in the overall universe...send chills down my spine.

Seriously guys, listen to "The surface of the sun" from Sunshine while browsing this thread. You'll really appreciate these pictures and information more.

Such a shame that we'll never get to explore it all.
Click to expand...

Yep that entire soundtrack is awesome! Too bad for the shitty 3rd act. Could've been one of the great sci films of all itme.
 
S

spyshagg

Should not be allowed to breed
jiggle said:
How gorgeous is Amy Mainzer on The Universe??? And smart to boot :eek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQP_w3dV44Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QZrOHuYV4A&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHDXjjCN5Oc
Click to expand...

yeah the show ran out of things to talk about...

first two seasons were packed, the third one was ok. But now they keep talking about the same stuff over and over again, with top 10's this and that. An ep called Biggest explosions and another biggest blasts? come on!
 
H

Hootie

Member
spyshagg said:
yeah the show ran out of things to talk about...

first two seasons were packed, the third one was ok. But now they keep talking about the same stuff over and over again, with top 10's this and that. An ep called Biggest explosions and another biggest blasts? come on!
Click to expand...

Yeah I sort of noticed that recently. :lol
 
D

DrForester

Kills Photobucket

Click picture to links to bigger pictures, including 7227 x 3847

from http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/ (there's more pictures)

That, duh, is Saturn, taken by the ever-amazing Cassini spacecraft. It’s actually 75 different exposures stitched together, and was taken on August 12, just a little over a day after Saturnian equinox, when the Sun shines straight along the rings. The illumination from the Sun is about the same everywhere, but on the left the rings are illuminated by Saturn-shine glowing down on them, making them a bit brighter.

This picture keeps on giving, too. You can spot several moons if you look in the embiggenatisized version (most obvious is Janus on the left; all of the moons have had their brightness enhanced to make them more easily visible in this image). You can also see the subtle swirls and whorls of storms in Saturn’s upper atmosphere. And what’s that dark line on Saturn’s equator? That’s the shadow of the rings themselves, narrowed to a thin line due to the Sun angle.
Click to expand...
 
B

bone idle

Member
Another way to address budget cuts. A Mayflower mission instead of the 'Calais booze cruise' of Apollo (no offence).

"But there is a way to put humans on Mars with foreseeable technology, and at a fraction of the projected cost. Five years ago I made the radical proposal that a handful of astronauts be sent on a one-way journey to Mars. I am not talking about a suicide mission. With its protective atmosphere, accessible water and carbon dioxide, and significant amounts of methane, Mars is one of the few places in the solar system that could support a human colony." - Paul Davies

full article here
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/sep/15/space-mars-martian-astronaut
 
F

fallout

Member
Holy shit those are some gorgeous shots. Maybe NASA has finally given up on this whole "science" thing and is just sending professional photographers into space.
 
W

Windu

never heard about the cat, apparently
It's Official: Water Found on the Moon

Since man first touched the moon and brought pieces of it back to Earth, scientists have thought that the lunar surface was bone dry. But new observations from three different spacecraft have put this notion to rest with what has been called "unambiguous evidence" of water across the surface of the moon.

The new findings, detailed in the Sept. 25 issue of the journal Science, come in the wake of further evidence of lunar polar water ice by NASA's Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter and just weeks before the planned lunar impact of NASA's LCROSS satellite, which will hit one of the permanently shadowed craters at the moon's south pole in hope of churning up evidence of water ice deposits in the debris field.

The moon remains drier than any desert on Earth, but the water is said to exist on the moon in very small quantities. Finding water on the moon would be a boon to possible future lunar bases, acting as a potential source of drinking water and fuel.

Apollo turns up dry

When Apollo astronauts returned from the moon 40 years ago, they brought back several samples of lunar rocks.

The moon rocks were analyzed for signs of water bound to minerals present in the rocks; while trace amounts of water were detected, these were assumed to be contamination from Earth, because the containers the rocks came back in had leaked.

"The isotopes of oxygen that exist on the moon are the same as those that exist on Earth, so it was difficult if not impossible to tell the difference between water from the moon and water from Earth," said Larry Taylor of the University of Tennessee, Knoxville, who is a member of one of the NASA-built instrument teams for India's Chandrayaan-1 satellite and has studied the moon since the Apollo missions.

While scientists continued to suspect that water ice deposits could be found in the coldest spots of south pole craters that never saw sunlight, the consensus became that the rest of the moon was bone dry.

But new observations of the lunar surface made with Chandrayaan-1, NASA's Cassini spacecraft, and NASA's Deep Impact probe, are calling that consensus into question, with multiple detections of the spectral signal of either water or the hydroxyl group (an oxygen and hydrogen chemically bonded).

Three spacecraft

Chandrayaan-1, India's first-ever moon probe, was aimed at mapping the lunar surface and determining its mineral composition (the orbiter's mission ended 14 months prematurely in August after an abrupt malfunction). While the probe was still active, its NASA-built Moon Mineralogy Mapper (M3) detected wavelengths of light reflected off the surface that indicated the chemical bond between hydrogen and oxygen — the telltale sign of either water or hydroxyl.

Because M3 can only penetrate the top few millimeters of lunar regolith, the newly observed water seems to be at or near the lunar surface. M3's observations also showed that the water signal got stronger toward the polar regions.

Cassini, which passed by the moon in 1999 on its way to Saturn, provides confirmation of this signal with its own slightly stronger detection of the water/hydroxyl signal. The water would have to be absorbed or trapped in the glass and minerals at the lunar surface, wrote Roger Clark of the U.S. Geological Survey in the study detailing Cassini's findings.

The Cassini data shows a global distribution of the water signal, though it also appears stronger near the poles (and low in the lunar maria).

Finally, the Deep Impact spacecraft, as part of its extended EPOXI mission and at the request of the M3 team, made infrared detections of water and hydroxyl as part of a calibration exercise during several close approaches of the Earth-Moon system en route to its planned flyby of comet 103P/Hartley 2 in November 2010.

Deep Impact detected the signal at all latitudes above 10 degrees N, though once again, the poles showed the strongest signals. With its multiple passes, Deep Impact was able to observe the same regions at different times of the lunar day. At noon, when the sun's rays were strongest, the water feature was lowest, while in the morning, the feature was stronger.

"The Deep Impact observations of the Moon not only unequivocally confirm the presence of [water/hydroxyl] on the lunar surface, but also reveal that the entire lunar surface is hydrated during at least some portion of the lunar day," the authors wrote in their study.

The findings of all three spacecraft "provide unambiguous evidence for the presence of hydroxyl or water," said Paul Lacey of the University of Hawaii in an opinion essay accompanying the three studies. Lacey was not involved in any of the missions.

The new data "prompt a critical reexamination of the notion that the moon is dry. It is not," Lacey wrote.

Where the water comes from

Combined, the findings show that not only is the moon hydrated, the process that makes it so is a dynamic one that is driven by the daily changes in solar radiation hitting any given spot on the surface.

The sun might also have something to do with how the water got there.

There are potentially two types of water on the moon: that brought from outside sources, such as water-bearing comets striking the surface, or that that originates on the moon.

This second, endogenic, source is thought to possibly come from the interaction of the solar wind with moon rocks and soils.

The rocks and regolith that make up the lunar surface are about 45 percent oxygen (combined with other elements as mostly silicate minerals). The solar wind — the constant stream of charged particles emitted by the sun — are mostly protons, or positively charged hydrogen atoms.

If the charged hydrogens, which are traveling at one-third the speed of light, hit the lunar surface with enough force, they break apart oxygen bonds in soil materials, Taylor, the M3 team member suspects. Where free oxygen and hydrogen exist, there is a high chance that trace amounts of water will form.

The various study researchers also suggest that the daily dehydration and rehydration of the trace water across the surface could lead to the migration of hydroxyl and hydrogen towards the poles where it can accumulate in the cold traps of the permanently shadowed regions.
Click to expand...
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/090923-moon-water-discovery.html
 
S

spyshagg

Should not be allowed to breed
really

I'm insulted

The typical fan has to be of some intellect. Yet they treat me like a 9 year old boy, repeating stuff all the time during the episode and now repeating episodes themselves.
 
E

Extollere

Sucks at poetry
spyshagg said:
really

I'm insulted

The typical fan has to be of some intellect. Yet they treat me like a 9 year old boy, repeating stuff all the time during the episode and now repeating episodes themselves.
Click to expand...

That's why I couldn't get into Universe. Seems like a show made for 14 year old ADD kids. I'll just keep watching reruns of Cosmos.
 
C

chase

Member
I actually agree with the comments about Universe. Anyone with an interest in pop-science, let alone real science, will know everything in these shows. I don't know what audience they're going for.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Starfield Shattered Space |OT| Is that the Great Serpent or are you just happy to see me?
2 3 4 5 6
257
11K
dmaul1114 replied
DF - Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth: PS5 Pro vs PS5 - A Vast Improvement At 60FPS
9 10 11 12 13
649
28K
PaintTinJr replied
Destiny 2: The Final Shape | Review Thread
Analysis Review 2
58
3K
Warnen replied
Sonic Frontiers Final Previews
48
3K
Whitecrow replied
  • Poll
(Somewhat) How Not To Retrospective: The Nintendo 64 Chronicles (Sakhura Baguette)
Opinion Analysis Retro
23
2K
Katajx replied
Top Bottom