I'm halfway through Matteru and it really feels like Toradora Part 2.
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Spring Anime 2012 | Welcome Home, Space Cowboy
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I'm halfway through Matteru and it really feels like Toradora Part 2.
No 100% concrete idea on that yet, but from what's been known so far from the manga, probably.
It would be time better served if you just watched the original series. You almost certainly can jump into the new series fresh as there are very little ties to the original.
Oh yeah, Battle Royale is even worse, especially the live action movie. If you can't take F/Z don't watch Battle Royale.
and for F/SN, at least the main character has better ideals than the rest of the cast. However, well, watch F/SN and you might understand why people hate Shirou so much.
Ah thanks. I really should watch the original first but those 50 episodes are really daunting. Not to mention a movie as well.
Maybe I'll try and watch them in tandem?
A romcom thats starts off pretty good but goes into to filler hell by wasting time on worthless side characters that amount to nothing whose only real purpose is to stretch the story till the final few eps, for it to then to get retarded stupid at the end just for sake of trying to be like romeo and Juliet even know it doesn't fit within the context of the story(terrible writing only a too far gone animufan could overlook).
Starts good ends up awful.
Ultimadrago
Member
<3 Battle Royale da movie.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
Toradora is an adaptation so, as with Wandering Son, its good writing can't be attributed to Okada.
Wheeljack539
Member
Mages as a whole in the Type-Moon universe are not nice people at all. In fact, the vast majority of them are assholes. Especially those at the Clock Tower.
The thing with Aoi is
she is being portrayed as the traditional and preferred Japanese wife, in that she goes with what she is told and keeps her mouth shut. Also, regarding Sakura, outside of the Matou family, the Tohsaka's do not know what is being done to her. In the Type-Moon universe, a family's style of magic is not shared with outsiders.
Saber as a Heroic Spirit should be enough to protect Irisviel is his line of thinking along with making others believe she is Iri's Servant so he can work in the shadows. Kiritsugu does not play by the normal rules of magi. He is completely focused on the goal, and is meticulous in his planning. His motivations and why he does things will be revealed as the show goes on.
I do hope you'll keep watching. It really is a fantastic series.
frostbyte said:
Just remember this is Shirou from the Fate Route. Each route presents him with different challenges that changes him and his thinking accordingly. The Shirou from the end of Unlimited Blade Works is different from Fate Route Shirou, and the Shirou from the end of Heaven's Feel is very different from the two previous routes.
Oh you knew you weren't just gonna get away with this post unscathed, right?
I love it too but honestly, really dark and it's not tone isn't very nice.
BR2 sucked a lot though.
oh really? Thanks for clearing that up.
I guess Okada just went another rank down for me.
Watching them both at the same time is only going to serve to spoil you on stuff from the original.
Just be warned that the only real downside to watching E7 to prepare for AO is that you may never want to see AO after finishing the first series!
still watch the original, it's fantastic
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
There is no Eureka Seven movie. You must have been misinformed on that account.
Ultimadrago
Member
The movie is a piece of utter shit and should never be watched. It's not part of the TV series 'canon' anyway. The 50 episodes go by really fast if you like the series. Again I would just load up a couple tonight and see if it works for you. If not then wait for E7 AO and see if that floats your boat.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
I think you might be overselling the moral ambiguity just a bit. The only really ambiguous characters are Kirei and Kiritsugu. Everyone else is either a psychotic nutjob(Tokiomi, Ryu, Kayneth and his wife) or a good/not-bad guy(Iris, Waver, Kariya).
The psychotic nutjobs are interesting, absolutely, but being interesting doesn't make them morally ambiguous.
Just sorta posted this at AS, but I figure I'd cross post it here.
In regards to worries about E7:AO, re: scale, story, development, etc...Despite Dai Sato not being involved in the writing of the sequel, its important to note that the director Tomoki Kyoda, was intimately involved with the creation of the first series, the organization of how the worldview would unfold, and the extent of the romance and several other influences. Its not like E7 was a show that Dai Sato came up with and Kyoda had been appointed director of or some crap. While Sato's influence in the original series is clear as day, there are a lot of factors about it that make me feel it was and is Kyoda's baby above anyone else's to some extent.
You're the only person who told the truth.
BR1 did have some substance behind all the, personally overdone, violence and gore.
BR2 completely lost the ironic tone that was present in the first movie and is a desecration all in all.
ah, i see...
argh, i'll watch AO and realise how much it sucks, erase my memory then watch E7.
Ah, my bad. I may have remembered wrong. Now that I check again...
Minori Scramble!
The premise of this OVA revolves around a girl named Tamaki who lives in a Penguin Research Lab with her parents. Due to various traumatic experiences over the years, Tamaki has developed a fear and hatred of penguins. Her father worried by this, decides to develop a cute human-penguin hybrid robot named Midori to help her get over her aversion to penguins. This leads to some rather unforeseen consequences!
I'd recommend this to anyone based not only on how incredibly charming and cute this is, but also just how amazing the animation is throughout the entire thing. Plus, how could you say no to a face like this?
The premise of this OVA revolves around a girl named Tamaki who lives in a Penguin Research Lab with her parents. Due to various traumatic experiences over the years, Tamaki has developed a fear and hatred of penguins. Her father worried by this, decides to develop a cute human-penguin hybrid robot named Midori to help her get over her aversion to penguins. This leads to some rather unforeseen consequences!
I'd recommend this to anyone based not only on how incredibly charming and cute this is, but also just how amazing the animation is throughout the entire thing. Plus, how could you say no to a face like this?
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The best Kugiloli that isn't Kagura.
Kyoda was also involved with the movie. That's all I need to say in regards to my recent opinion of him.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Eh, those are the most ambiguous characters, but I think most characters have a good degree of complexity to them. Tokiomi isn't really a nutjob in my opinion; he's just a guy with a very different set of morals compared to Kariya. He has values and principles, they just happen to be pretty far divorced from what a normal person's are.
The only character I would really say is a nutjob is Ryuunosuke (but he's such a fascinating nutjob). Sola-Ui is power hungry, but we don't really know that much else about her, and I wouldn't really say Kayneth was a nut. He's probably one of the less interesting characters, though.
Ultimadrago
Member
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
Tokiomi
sent his daughter off to be endlessly raped by worms, and believes that forcing his daughters to fight to the death is a good and respectable thing.
Sola-Ui
literally tortured her "husband" into giving her control of Lancer, then abandoned his crippled self in some derelict office building.
I'll give you that I probably shouldn't have thrown Kayneth in the psychotic nutjob pool, but I still don't think I'd call him morally ambiguous.
True. Fate route Shirou has to be the worst, mainly due to the virtue of worst plot and worst character development. Not to mention just lame throughout the whole route. Heavy F/SN spoilers:
UBW route Shirou was much more interesting in that he had to face Archer, his own future self, and therefore his own ideals. However, even though he knows what horrible fate might lie in the future, he still takes the thorny road and reaffirms his belief in his flawed and borrowed ideals. Heaven's Feel route Shirou again is much more interesting since he has to go against his own ideals as a hero to save Sakura and such.
Kinda Fated out after madly discussing Fate stuff, making Fate girl lists and arguing Fate power levels for the past few days so don't feel obligated to respond to this.
Indeed. Your frameset completely matches my envisioned ideals of the characters.
I would just add Kariya's madness from Zouken's bugs skew his judgement even in his pursuit of justice. He is dedicated to saving Sakura but he uses unorthodox methods and can be obsessed at times. His descent to madness while retaining his ideals is what makes him morally ambiguous. I also agree that Tokiomi isn't a nutjob; he's simply deluded and has thoroughly justified his ways to an end. He thinks he's doing the right thing by putting his family aside, pawning off Sakura, etc
Basileus777
Member
Tokiomi doesn't know the details about what is happening to Sakura, all he knows is that he gave the Matou an heir who he thinks will inherit their magic and earn glory and power. It's a terribly idealistic view of things, but Tokiomi is an idiot.
Crash Station
Member
Liar Game isn't really like the Fate franchise. Like, at all >_>
Hayate no Gotoku 17
Zawa
Why wouldn't these old mage families know anything about how one another operate?
Basileus777
Member
Because their magic and abilities are secrets that they don't share with anyone else. And it's not like Zouken is going around telling people himself.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Zetman 02
Gawd damn they are plowing through the chapters pretty fast, I'm a little sad the grandpa doesnt look like revolver ocelot anymore though hahaha
Gawd damn they are plowing through the chapters pretty fast, I'm a little sad the grandpa doesnt look like revolver ocelot anymore though hahaha
I don't believe Tokiomi knows of Zouken's methods. I assumed
the bug thing
Sola-Ui is power hungry and
in love with Lancer. She was pawned off by her family as a marriage of convenience and I assume she's been living in the shadow of her inferior brother and constantly wants to prove herself worthy. She's also in love with Lancer due to Lancer's magical mole. I believe she sees Kayneth incapacitated an opportunity to finally prove herself to others and hook up with a hot guy.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
Kariya is literally killing himself to protect the innocent, tragic loli, and he isn't really using unorthodox methods -- he's using magic just like the rest of them. Kiritsugu is the one with the morally ambiguous unorthodox methods. Kariya also hasn't displayed any sign of madness thus far, and certainly none that would cast him in a negative light.
You basically just said "Tokiomi isn't a nutjob, he's simply a nutjob." Dude is blatantly coocoo for cocoa puffs if he thinks that telling his family to get fucked so he can make sweet, sweet love to his magic is good or right.
Considering the prestige of the Matou family and Tokiomi's lack of surprise at Kariya's appearance and methods, I think he knows well enough what life is like in the Matou household. Further, if he doesn't know, then I don't think he'd really care if he found out.
That's super great for Sola-Ui, but you're disregarding the fact that
she literally tortured her husband then left him to rot on a stretcher in an abandoned building.
Moral relativity only goes so far.
Saki A Side 1: Mahjong moe. Those CG tiles~ I was kind of looking forward to more Saki but I didn't know it was going to be a prequel/side story. In a way it's refreshing to have a new set of characters but it's going to take some mental work to be able to recall all of them. I hope they have defining game breaking mahjong abilities to separate them. This was a firehawk episode. Cherry blossoms all over while teaching youngins about MJ. I find that really funny because some Chinese elderly I know call it an evil game. Teaching kids an evil game! I do like Shizuno, all that genki energy and the lack pants strike witches style. Nodoka being well endowed even in middle school. That she becomes the figure Ako and Shizuno chase after isn't a surprise.
I hope we get into some ridiculous mahjong soon. Tile slamming, hell waiting, tsumo drawing action. Additionally Saki is totally a monocle show.
I hope we get into some ridiculous mahjong soon. Tile slamming, hell waiting, tsumo drawing action. Additionally Saki is totally a monocle show.
Basileus777
Member
Tokiomi
doesn't think he's screwing over his family. In his distorted worldview and ignorance about Zouken, he thinks he's set up his family for glory and power. I don't have a problem with calling him a nutjob, but he's not really someone who doesn't care about his family.
Basileus777
Member
That's full of HF spoilers from FSN.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Tokiomi is very much a man who is defined by his upbringing and the world he lives in.
He's concerned with advancing magic above all else, and his mindset is defined by that. Listening to what he said to Kariya, it's clear that he really does think he was doing the best thing for everyone when he sent Sakura off to Zouken. That doesn't make him right, but I think he fits into the ambiguous category. He has very real reasons for making the decisions that he does, and they make some perverse sort of sense.
Sola-Ui and Kayneth haven't really gotten nearly as much screen time, so it's harder for me to really judge the fullness of their motivations. I don't really think they have Kirei levels of depth, but a lot of that is difficult for me to form an opinion on.
I agree about Kariya, too. He means well, but
he's clearly become a bit unbalanced as the series has gone on. So far, Kariya seems to me like he's going to be a subversion of the typical hero who sacrifices everything to save someone else and has it all work out. Things are going poorly for him in terms of his sanity, and as Tokiomi put it in the most recent episode, he seems to have changed for the worst.
I think he's a character to watch going forward.
Basileus777
Member
F/Z is a direct prequel to it in the same setting using many of the same characters.
Oh nice. I might check it out despite the bad things I've heard about it.
chickdigger802
Banned
toradora 1
Is every male lead in kugaloli shows a baka inu?
Is every male lead in kugaloli shows a baka inu?
Wheeljack539
Member
His worldview, from what I recall, is rather typical of magi. Moreso for the nobles and those at the Clock Tower. Remember Kayneth and his dismissal of Waver's theories early on?
Ok maybe unorthodox methods isn't the right phase. Kariya's just a mystery throughout the first season, only popping in here and there. Why didn't Kariya approach Tokiomi earlier for the truth, instead of
in the 14th episode
14th episode when facing down Tokiomi
Tokiomi's always very calm and scheming. I wouldn't call that a nutjob, I would say he think he's doing the right thing even if he isn't. Maybe our definition of nutjob is messing us up here.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Yeah, but I get the very distinct impression that if he found out, he wouldn't rush out there to save her. In fact, he'd probably shrug his shoulders and think "Well, seeing as I gave her to them, it's not my business anymore." That's just how he strikes me.
This too. I'm pretty sure with all of the spying they do against one another for these wars he can't be that ignorant.
I love the old guy with the crazy facial hair.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
When I said it wasn't unorthodox, I meant in a practical sense. He's not killing innocents, being sneaky, causing collateral damage, making anyone suffer, or anything like that. Practically speaking, he's just got bugs instead of fireballs.
But none of that casts a shadow on Kariya's moral purity. Until he steps off his white charger, he's still very much a knight in fleshy, undulating armor.
To me, a nutjob is someone who has no grasp on reality or has an utterly perverse world view, and that's Tokiomi through and through.
If Tokiomi is not able to infer anything about their family after episode 14 of F/Z I would imagine he has very serious brain damage.
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