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Star Citizen Pre-Alpha: 'Arena Commander' Dogfighting

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E

elyetis

Member
okiemok said:
So now that the Arena Commander has been out for a bit, what is the general perspective for the future of SC? Are people happy with the progress?
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I'm still pretty confident about the future of SC.

Happy with the progress is another matter, new ship ( single crew, not even speaking about multi crew update ) for AC seems like a far away dream, and even things like new control scheme/IFCS seems to be in the same boat.
 
Z

Zabojnik

Member
MrBig said:
There has been lots of discussion on this here if you want to go back and read that, but really, myself and quite a few others I've talked to aren't really touching Arena Commander - though it's not representative of the game as a whole I do not want to burn myself out on it. AC is very rough, but that is not the tell, anyone is able to see the progress that CIG is making on the countless content and story posts (both official and in the forum) that are being made. They've stopped floundering, figured out most of what they're doing, and are now working to actually, slowly and carefully, build everything out.
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Yep, that's me as well. Not going near AC for the forseeable future. It kinda almost bothers me that we'll be getting SQ42 in pieces as well. But it can't be helped, I guess. We in the know know that SC is a 2018 game, but the unwashed masses would never accept that, they need their early fixes.
 
O

okiemok

Member
Zabojnik said:
Yep, that's me as well. Not going near AC for the forseeable future. It kinda almost bothers me that we'll be getting SQ42 in pieces as well. But it can't be helped, I guess. We in the know know that SC is a 2018 game, but the unwashed masses would never accept that, they need their early fixes.
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It does seem that a lot of the naysaying has quieted with the AC release. It adds to the tangibility of the project for a lot of people.
 
E

Effect

Member
I wonder how more damage do the Aurora weapons do. The damage output was horrible on the stock weapons for the trainer. I have an LN and even putting those weapons on the trainer didn't help much. It made clearing the scavengers easier but any benefit they had disappeared once Hunters and harder enemies appeared. I noticed the LN's bulldog weapons also had their damage increased. Interested in seeing how those work out. Along with the changes seemingly made to the Aurora interior.

Would ask on the official forums but I like to stay away from that place. Far to many sycophants that praise everything CIG does and acts like they're doing no wrong in regard to anything be it from design to actual community interaction and how they handle updates.
 
Z

Zabojnik

Member
Effect said:
Would ask on the official forums but I like to stay away from that place. Far to many sycophants that praise everything CIG does and acts like they're doing no wrong in regard to anything be it from design to actual community interaction and how they handle updates.
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They really can do no wrong though.
 
S

Sax Russel

Banned
The controls have really improved since the initial AC launch. My Aurora actually turns/moves through space smoothly now instead of feeling like there's two drunken idiots fighting to interpret my joystick movements for me.
 
T

Tommyhawk

Member
Welp, looks like the M50 will be tomorrow in our hangars (+ the obligatory sale):

m50-1vmrgy.png
 
Z

Zabojnik

Member
Awww yisss, it's Hammer time!

The Mustang (as shown in the latest Jump Point) looks brilliant too. Love the top-down silhouette.
 
R

Raticus79

Seek victory, not fairness
Lookin' good. Reminds me of an F1 car.

I expect the all-white scheme will still be an option later, along with a bunch of others.
 
S

Starviper

Member
The new patch has made Squadron Battle really enjoyable and playable. Ship movement feels much more agile, and the weapon balancing (affects both cannons and missiles) has really helped a lot. A single missile will now take down a section of shields, but not blow out your engine in a single shot along with it anymore. :)
 
D

Daedardus

Member
Hmm. They chose the wrong colour as default if you ask me for the M50. And it looks so tiny, it literally is just a cockpit with two engines strapped on. Just gimme a 350R for racing, please.
 
K

Keasar

Member
So I've been trying the Arena Commander system a couple of rounds, and I gonna be honest, this isn't that much fun really.

So far the battles are just a complete mess of twisting and turning, there is no dogfighting feel to it, it feels like turrets in space. The auto-aiming makes me feel lazy, though to be fair, judging by how it is trying to steer one of these ships in movement with mouse and keyboard, maybe its for the best.

The overall feel of steering is soapy and all glidey, like I have barely any control over it while it spins around all directions with me desperately trying to wrestle the controls back. Maybe this is "realistic" but it isn't that much fun.

I will admit though I may have a bit of a bias since I've been playing a lot of the Elite: Dangerous beta lately and been having a blast with it. The controls feel great. The combat is nice and non-fuzz dogfighting between space ships. It feels so much easier to get into and just have fun from the get go. Ive been trying now several times to get into the same spirit with Arena Commander but it just isn't working. This is an extremely early alpha, that I know, but I am getting worried if this is the direction the game is taking.

I would have posted about this on the official forums but seriously, fuck that place. Its filled with nothing but fans who will not take any criticism to their favorite unfinished game of all time.
 
R

Rommel

Junior Member
Keasar said:
So I've been trying the Arena Commander system a couple of rounds, and I gonna be honest, this isn't that much fun really.

So far the battles are just a complete mess of twisting and turning, there is no dogfighting feel to it, it feels like turrets in space. The auto-aiming makes me feel lazy, though to be fair, judging by how it is trying to steer one of these ships in movement with mouse and keyboard, maybe its for the best.

The overall feel of steering is soapy and all glidey, like I have barely any control over it while it spins around all directions with me desperately trying to wrestle the controls back. Maybe this is "realistic" but it isn't that much fun.

I will admit though I may have a bit of a bias since I've been playing a lot of the Elite: Dangerous beta lately and been having a blast with it. The controls feel great. The combat is nice and non-fuzz dogfighting between space ships. It feels so much easier to get into and just have fun from the get go. Ive been trying now several times to get into the same spirit with Arena Commander but it just isn't working. This is an extremely early alpha, that I know, but I am getting worried if this is the direction the game is taking.

I would have posted about this on the official forums but seriously, fuck that place. Its filled with nothing but fans who will not take any criticism to their favorite unfinished game of all time.
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Did you hit control f? Changes the flying dynamics
 
K

Keasar

Member
Rommel said:
Did you hit control f? Changes the flying dynamics
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Tried it now. Better feel to the flying, but here comes the problem, that isn't the standard mode. It has the only advantage of being slightly easier to control when getting from point A to point B, but once you are engaging an enemy, it is completely useless since it inhibits the actual agility of the ship and makes you slower to turn around than the enemy and lacks the aiming capabilities. It all goes back then to my criticism before, its just a bloody mess of ships quickly turning around each other and shooting until one pops.

If it was the only mode of flight, added non-gimballed weapons and balanced them against gimballed weaponry, improved the controls a bit for mouse and keyboard to have the same mode of control like Elite and several other space flight games over the years (move the mouse like a joystick to steer the ship), then it would be great. So far though, not impressed. This is not to say I give up on the game completely, I still have high hopes for it in the end, but if this is gonna be the dogfighting I think I wanna turn in my Super Hornet and just go for trading or something.
 
Shrike Alvaron

Shrike Alvaron

Member
What about ctrl-caps lock I think it is, which switches between G-safe off, Comstab off, and both off? Turning g-safe off lets you turn tighter at the risk of black and red outs, while Comstab off lets you drift (the rear of your ship can "overshoot" your turn when you're fast). Personally I like to keep both off. Also, be sure to make plenty of use of decoupled mode (caps lock), particularly for extremely fast turning. It's also the only way to strafe currently.
 
M

MrBig

Member
Daedardus said:
Hmm. They chose the wrong colour as default if you ask me for the M50. And it looks so tiny, it literally is just a cockpit with two engines strapped on. Just gimme a 350R for racing, please.
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The design and paint make it feel like a F1 car, which is appropriate considering its role and the description you gave. We don't know to what degree yet, but we can customize stuff in the PU.
 
D

Daedardus

Member
MrBig said:
The design and paint make it feel like a F1 car, which is appropriate considering its role and the description you gave. We don't know to what degree yet, but we can customize stuff in the PU.
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Oh yeah, I know you can put different skins on your ship in the PU. But Roberts had said there would be three skins to choose from, and it bums me a bit that we only got one now and it's not the clean white one. That one was at least not so busy looking.

Keasar said:
Once again, more fun to fly but still completely useless against the standard mode when in combat.
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A space sim is more than about combat alone. We'll just have to wait a bit before we see it come more and more together. They are putting great effort in tweaking the flight system though.
 
D

Danthrax

Batteries the CRISIS!
Daedardus said:
Oh yeah, I know you can put different skins on your ship in the PU. But Roberts had said there would be three skins to choose from, and it bums me a bit that we only got one now and it's not the clean white one. That one was at least not so busy looking.
Click to expand...

MORE ROBERTS LIES
 
K

Keasar

Member
Daedardus said:
A space sim is more than about combat alone. We'll just have to wait a bit before we see it come more and more together. They are putting great effort in tweaking the flight system though.
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I would agree but Star Citizen is also Squadron 42, a Wind Commander-esque singleplayer part which is focused on combat. This is why I care a lot on how the flying in combat turns out, cause I will be spending a lot of time with it.
 
D

Daedardus

Member
New store is up. It looks a lot cleaner and features nice sorting options while featuring ships that aren't available to buy at this time. I guess it's good to see the specs and the cool new renders.

If it is enough to stop confusing newcomers I do not know, but it is at least an improvement.
 
M

MrBig

Member
Daedardus said:
New store is up. It looks a lot cleaner and features nice sorting options while featuring ships that aren't available to buy at this time. I guess it's good to see the specs and the cool new renders.

If it is enough to stop confusing newcomers I do not know, but it is at least an improvement.
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They still have it set up to catch whales and not to obviously show people 'this is how you buy the game (aurora pack); this is how you collect ships (everything else)', which is disappointing.
 
D

Danthrax

Batteries the CRISIS!
MrBig said:
They still have it set up to catch whales and not to obviously show people 'this is how you buy the game (aurora pack); this is how you collect ships (everything else)', which is disappointing.
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Eh? Yeah they do. It's much more straightforward than it was. The first thing you see on the pledge screen after the big banner at the top is "GAME PACKAGES" and "A Game Package is required to play Star Citizen. Pick the ship that best fits your play style, from fast, agile starfighters to multi-crew explorers."

The next part says "SHIPS" and "Expand your fleet by adding more ships to your Hangar!"

So I think it's probably more newbie-friendly.
 
M

MrBig

Member
Danthrax said:
Eh? Yeah they do. It's much more straightforward than it was. The first thing you see on the pledge screen after the big banner at the top is "GAME PACKAGES" and "A Game Package is required to play Star Citizen. Pick the ship that best fits your play style, from fast, agile starfighters to multi-crew explorers."

The next part says "SHIPS" and "Expand your fleet by adding more ships to your Hangar!"

So I think it's probably more newbie-friendly.
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To buy Star Citizen is to buy the Aurora pack, and that is not even visible on the front page. Anything else is extra. That is not made clear on the store page.
 
M

mkenyon

Banned
MrBig said:
To buy Star Citizen is to buy the Aurora pack, and that is not even visible on the front page. Anything else is extra. That is not made clear on the store page.
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I think you are letting your subjective opinion on buying ships cloud your complaint. Buying any ship package is to buy the game.
 
E

eyeball_kid

Member
Tommyhawk said:
Welp, looks like the M50 will be tomorrow in our hangars (+ the obligatory sale):

m50-1vmrgy.png
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Wow. That is one sexy ship. The dogfighting I've seen doesn't feel right to me, nor do I like the graphical overload of the HUD targeting, but they certainly have the ship design right.
 
S

Sleepy Buddha

Member
I'm considering getting the Constellation package. Do you guys think it's worth it considering your experience with the game so far?

Also how does insurance work in game?
 
D

Daedardus

Member
Sleepy Buddha said:
I'm considering getting the Constellation package. Do you guys think it's worth it considering your experience with the game so far?

Also how does insurance work in game?
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Nope, not at this time. The Constellation isn't even flyable (and won't be in the near time) and you better wait till the Constellation variants come along. It's better to earn it in game anyway.

And how exactly insurance will work is undecided, but it's something along this: you pay insurance. When your ship gets crashed, the insurance company will deliver you a new one, based on the current market supply (with popular ships having smaller delivery times) once you've paid a small fee based on how frequently you've crashed your ship/ how damaged it is.
 
S

Sleepy Buddha

Member
Daedardus said:
Nope, not at this time. The Constellation isn't even flyable (and won't be in the near time) and you better wait till the Constellation variants come along. It's better to earn it in game anyway.

And how exactly insurance will work is undecided, but it's something along this: you pay insurance. When your ship gets crashed, the insurance company will deliver you a new one, based on the current market supply (with popular ships having smaller delivery times) once you've paid a small fee based on how frequently you've crashed your ship/ how damaged it is.
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Thanks. So insurance is for any instance when the ship is destroyed, no matter if it's PvP or PvE, right?
 
E

epmode

Member
Sleepy Buddha said:
I'm considering getting the Constellation package. Do you guys think it's worth it considering your experience with the game so far?
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No. You can always upgrade later if you want.

Sleepy Buddha said:
Also how does insurance work in game?
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It is a mystery. I doubt CIG knows either. Lots of the persistent universe stuff is up in the air since they're still designing it and there are very few public design documents.
 
D

derFeef

Member
I forgot I got an invite, will be updating and testing for sure - having a HOTAS now will help hopefully. WIll be interesting to see how it compares to ED (not fair, bt hey...).
 
P

phoenixyz

Member
Sleepy Buddha said:
Thanks. So insurance is for any instance when the ship is destroyed, no matter if it's PvP or PvE, right?
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CR said that there will be exceptions. For example you would need insurance from a shady (and probably more expensive) company if you want to have your ship replaced when it is destroyed while doing illegal stuff (like piracy). Also they are thinking about mechanisms to prevent people from commiting insurance fraud.
 
D

Daedardus

Member
phoenixyz said:
CR said that there will be exceptions. For example you would need insurance from a shady (and probably more expensive) company if you want to have your ship replaced when it is destroyed while doing illegal stuff (like piracy). Also they are thinking about mechanisms to prevent people from commiting insurance fraud.
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Yup. Get your ship blown up in a no security zone and you won't see it back. But it's still to early to find out how insurance will work. My grandchildren will be happy to tell you all about it when the game releases.
 
E

epmode

Member
Daedardus said:
Yup. Get your ship blown up in a no security zone and you won't see it back.
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I'd like to see them try that with a ship sold for real money.

In other news, I really wish this game went the Dota route and only sold cosmetic items for cash. I wouldn't even mind if they couldn't be purchased with in-game currency! CIG's insistence that the game won't be pay-to-win simply because everything is available with in-game currency is missing the point really hard. But hey, $49M and counting.
 
D

Daedardus

Member
epmode said:
I'd like to see them try that with a ship sold for real money.
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But they didn't sell you a ship, did they? You just get a ship in return for helping to fund the game.

People are way too stupid for pledging hundreds of dollars only to want a ship. I pledged for my 315p only because I wanted to support the game. I have no reason to complain though, those 'stupid' people are paying to realise the game I've always wanted.
 
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