Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
So now any normie non-Force user can become a Force Ghost?
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Star Wars IX Open Spoilers, Leaks, Trash Talk, etc. (***Warning SPOILERS***)
- Thread starter #Phonepunk#
- Start date
- Spoilers
ExpandKong
Banned
Anybody else notice that for all the semi-major new characters they’ve added since TFA, the good guys are all women and the bad guys are all men?
Rose Tico and Admiral Holdo vs whatever Benicio’s character’s name was
And now in this new movie we have Zori Bliss and Lando’s daughter vs General Pryde
Maybe I’m overthinking it.
Rose Tico and Admiral Holdo vs whatever Benicio’s character’s name was
And now in this new movie we have Zori Bliss and Lando’s daughter vs General Pryde
Maybe I’m overthinking it.
cryptoadam
Banned
Some SW fan educate me, but wasn't bringing people back from the "dead" or healing them was some big thing and basically no Jedi has done it and only a rumor of a Sith doing it but probably a lie?
Wasn't that the what Palps used to turn vader, to teach him how to heal his wife? And we don't know if that story is even true.
And now both Rey and Kylo can do it? WTH? Is this in some comic or cartoon show or some shit. Why didn't Yoda revive some Jedi? Yoda is always protrayed as one of the wisest and greatest Jedi you telling me he can't force heal but Rey/Kylo can? Sounds like Palps is a real ahole he could of forced healed Anakin after he got all burnt up by Obi Wan. Instead sticks him in a crazy robotic suite.
Wasn't that the what Palps used to turn vader, to teach him how to heal his wife? And we don't know if that story is even true.
And now both Rey and Kylo can do it? WTH? Is this in some comic or cartoon show or some shit. Why didn't Yoda revive some Jedi? Yoda is always protrayed as one of the wisest and greatest Jedi you telling me he can't force heal but Rey/Kylo can? Sounds like Palps is a real ahole he could of forced healed Anakin after he got all burnt up by Obi Wan. Instead sticks him in a crazy robotic suite.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Well, coming back as a Force Ghost was a feat even for a Jedi. Now normie smugglers can do it.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
the messages i am getting are:
PT: even the biggest monsters were once human.
OT: through family & legacy, with pacifism & forgiveness, we can save the ones we love.
ST: you can become a god and kill yo gramps.
PT: even the biggest monsters were once human.
OT: through family & legacy, with pacifism & forgiveness, we can save the ones we love.
ST: you can become a god and kill yo gramps.
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Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Isn't this a mainstream news site? Because if so, ouch.
drganon
Member
*shrugs* The force?
Nymphae
Banned
Isn't this a mainstream news site? Because if so, ouch.
That really is an amazing quote.
Look, this isn't like Marvel, we can't just ape characters and stories from existing content. It's not like we have an expanded universe of content to pull from or anything, literally all we have to work with here is a roomful of people chatting about where things could go and billions upon billions of dollars to hire more talent. Give us a break here.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
yes it was the crux of his entire fall. the power to stop death (heal) is what ultimately seduced him to the dark side.
here i guess Rey does Force Heal to Kylo and also a random space worm.
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Stiflers Mom
Banned
Yep, it's so incredibly stupid she said that 'no source material' thing.
Like, there's only 40 years in which hundreds of books, RPG products and comics and whatever were released about Star Wars.
I remember lots of stories in the SW comics I read as a child that were much better than the tripe we got.
RoS will be the first main line Star Wars movie I won't see on its release..
Will wait for word of mouth, and see.
MisterHero
Super Member
They can assemble 20-30 Marvel actors for multiple scenes in one movie but not Luke, Anakin and Ben anywhere in 3 movies.
SMH dawg
SMH dawg
I mean, I suppose they can do what they want but it does seem cheap and amateurish, basically poor fan-fiction, to rewrite or invent new rules for what the force is and how it can be used.
Palpatine uses the promise of the force being able to save Padme as his way to corrupt Anakin.
With the core point of that little bit of story being that control over life and death is contrary to the will of the force and lust for such power leads to the dark side.
Rey is such a Mary Sue that she is even immune to this.
That's pretty crazy. Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader all because he wanted the power to stop people from dying.
For Rey that's just something she does on a Friday. No worries. No danger. No turning into Darth Reyder. It's fine.
They already jumped the shark with Leia flying through space so I suppose anything goes at this point.
It's completely idiotic.
If anything they should have gone completely the other way in the new trilogy.
We pick up 30 years after the fall of the Empire and things are OK but The Force has become almost completely diminished since Luke has brought balance. Then you just work with that idea that there is some big new threat to the galaxy and reconnecting with The Force and using it to defeat the new big bad is basically the main through line for your story.
Instead they really just went wild with showing people being able to use force powers on a whim (rey's jedi mind trick, grabbing lukes lightsaber) and then went as far as to show crazy force powers that we hadn't seen before (Leia flying through the void of space, Luke projecting himself and dying from the strain) and now they are doubling down on that.
The OT did a good job of showing that The Force was something that a lot of people in the Galaxy were skeptical of. We even have a main character that kind of doesn't even believe in it. Uses of the power are kept well contained and reserved. Vader can throw objects around, Obi Wan can influence people's actions. It's still like a Super power but we don't see anything too crazy.
The prequels are showing a time when using the force seems pretty common and we get some more "spectacular" examples of force usage BUT it is also constrained by the warning that if you get too deep into this stuff it can really be dangerous. Bringing someone back from the dead, for example, is seen as a taboo and the 2 examples of characters we see indulging in this become the main bad guys for the OT.
So what the hell is the thinking in the sequels? We're barely 10 minutes in and you have a guy stopping, and holding, lazer blasts, fuckin torturing people with the force. Then that gets weirdly contradicted when the same guy who we just saw demonstrating crazy force powers at the start of the movie gets his ass beat by some random girl. What?
It's kind of crazy to think that the sequel trilogy will end with people using the force to cheat death and it's OK. Like the first 3rd of the saga wasn't a cautionary tale against doing shit like that.
Nymphae
Banned
lol right, but what gets me is the line about how all they have to work with is some writers. Yeah, no shit lady, that's where new writing comes from, and you have more resources than literally anyone else on the planet, so there is no excuse at all for releasing turds.
Yeah she's totally full of it.
Not only does she have 6 movies of source material to work with, they have a small guide to what the audience in general likes and does not like.
Then you even have the bare bones of what makes Star Wars it's own thing just sitting there.
Fan-fiction is usually bad because it takes established rules of the universe and turns them on their head just because the writer feels like it.
Fan-fiction is usually bad because it gets the tone of the universe wrong or just throws the "spirit" of the source material away.
You could say really that all fan fiction subverts expectations because it gives you something that isn't really like the real thing.
It's like store brand cola.
The sequels are guilty of just being fake Star Wars movies, basically.
The character arcs and narrative decisions are just out of line with the OT.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
you know how i know the whole "End of the Skywalker Saga" stuff was pulled out of their ass?
cos if they had planned that from the beginning, they would have used it to sell every movie. you KNOW they would have marketed the hell out of it right from the start. if that truly was the goal of this trilogy,
why is that third movie the first time we're hearing of this? it's not like they have been gun shy about exploiting anything else. it's because it is a last minute marketing trick, not something they planned from the start. had that been the case we would have been hearing about the "Skywalker saga" and how important it is over the last 4-5 years. instead they have told us re: the old characters that "it isn't their story".
cos if they had planned that from the beginning, they would have used it to sell every movie. you KNOW they would have marketed the hell out of it right from the start. if that truly was the goal of this trilogy,
why is that third movie the first time we're hearing of this? it's not like they have been gun shy about exploiting anything else. it's because it is a last minute marketing trick, not something they planned from the start. had that been the case we would have been hearing about the "Skywalker saga" and how important it is over the last 4-5 years. instead they have told us re: the old characters that "it isn't their story".
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Caffeine
Gold Member
the original plan was a 10-12 and milking the franchise yearly.
prag16
Banned
I agree that this stuff is all bullshit, but I also agree with
Punished Miku
that in a lot a ways, what the hell else could they have done after TLJ screwed everything up royally?That said, for me there are easily three major things that are super fucking dumb here.
(1) Han alleged Force ghost. How do you explain this away? They probably won't. This breaks lore potentially more than anything even in TLJ.
(2) Darth Plagueis rumored unobtainable healing ability; a mystery for the entire saga; causes Anakin's fall; but now Rey and Ben can just do it like it's nothing. Even if you can say Sheev knew how to do it all along and is just trolling Anakin, still... Rey and Ben can just do it like it's nothing all of a sudden...
(3) Rey stomps a mudhole in Palpatine's ass (right after dying and being resurrected?). I'm not sure how they're gonna execute this to make it believable. Maybe they will. We'll find out. But I'm not seeing it.
The more I think about it the funnier it is.
Imagine in Lord of the Rings that Frodo and Sam go all the way to Mount Doom to destroy the ring. The ring got Boromir killed. Got Denethor killed. This big and elaborate plan to destroy it. People giving up their lives. Sam and Frodo going to hell and back just to get the job done.
30 years later. The One Ring is back!
It's OK though lads May Rey Sue Baggins jumps on an eagle and flies over Mount Doom and drops it back in. No problem!
Bring out a new Jaws movie but the shark dies in the first 10 minutes by choking on a plastic bag.
New Rocky movie. Rocky doesn't bother training and wins all of his fights in the first round. Easy!
Southern Gentleman
Member
So Kylo Ren uses the dragon balls / resurrection stone / philosopher's stone to literally resurrect Rey, at the cost of his own life?
Lol. So "he could save others from death... but not himself" is suddenly a light side power now?
Look, at this point I'm looking forward to reading the plot synopsis on Wikipedia. And the user reviews, if places like Rotten Tomatoes don't completely purge them, should be entertaining.
I say again, this is the final evil before Favreau takes over the next movie from Roundhead and restores balance.
Lol. So "he could save others from death... but not himself" is suddenly a light side power now?
Look, at this point I'm looking forward to reading the plot synopsis on Wikipedia. And the user reviews, if places like Rotten Tomatoes don't completely purge them, should be entertaining.
I say again, this is the final evil before Favreau takes over the next movie from Roundhead and restores balance.
MilkyJoe
Member
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
We know Palpatine drains life force from people now, and he's somehow still alive. If they were smart, they would actually reference Plageuis, and say Palpatine finally figured it out, or knew it all along, but it requires you drain the life from someone else so it's a dark side power. He could even teach Kylo the power at the beginning of the movie when they meet.
Then at the end, Kylo uses it but sacrifices himself, making it a light side version of the same power. And it would sorta bookend the 9 movies referencing the power Anakin looked for in the PT.
But they won't be smart enough to do that.
ExpandKong
Banned
Honestly I doubt they thought about it much beyond the fact that they needed a plot device so that Rey could heroically sacrifice herself to save the galaxy but also not die for real because come on she’s Rey not even the icy hand of death can hold yass queen back.
No they definitely won't be smart enough.
I honestly believe that fans were 100% correct way back and Snoke was indeed going to be revealed as Darth Plageuis.
It was the most prominent theory simply because it's the most sensible and logical progression on this kind of story.
Plageuis was alive and waiting in the wings until Palpatine was dead.
With Palpatine gone he can come back and find a new apprentice (Ben Solo) and off we go.
For whatever stupid reason the creators of this garbage decided to take an aggressive and needlessly combative stance with the fans for these movies.
No, their Snoke theory didn't suck. The trilogy needed a new big villain and the Star Wars lore had one sitting there ready made.
The Plagueis book was published in January 2012 and Disney buys Star Wars that same year.
There is NO WAY they didn't at least check out this book when they were coming up with new stuff for the new movies.
I understand the annoyance. People who spend all their time trying to second-guess movies and shows are usually not nearly as smart as they think they are. To just throw the whole thing in the bin in favor of "hahaha Snoke is nobody" is so unbelievably petty.
Then the next director comes in and goes "actually Palpatine is still alive and has been behind the whole thing all along".
So you know something is going on behind the scenes there.
You can see JJ setting it up. This mysterious figure who appears as a freaking massive hologram and is training Kylo Ren to be a Sith.
Wonder what his back story is. Find out in the next episode.
RJ then just throws it all out. Nah, he just dies. No big deal. It's subversive.
The JJ comes back thinking "what the hell did you do to the big mystery Sith villain I was setting up". I guess we bring back Palpatine then.
Going immediately to Palpatine to give the series a "big bad" and even going so far as to just drop him into the teaser trailer so that the fans definitely know is just a really blatant and obvious rebuttal to what Johnson did with TLJ.
It's about as close as you could get without outright saying "this guy fucked it up and we are trying to fix it somehow".
I don't believe there was NO plan for the trilogy.
I believe that they saw criticism of TFA for "copying" ANH and as a result allowed Johnson to do whatever he wanted and "surprise" the audience.
Things like Leia in space are so "out there" I just can't believe that any sensible person would write that into a Star Wars film.
Unless they were told they had free reign to do anything and they had to do unpredictable stuff that would surprise the audience.
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ExpandKong
Banned
It's entirely intentional, from day one.
Look at all those smug fucking faces
They all already look like they’re somebody’s ex-wife.
I’m detecting large amounts of beta radiation sir
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
Yeah, that would have been so much better.
I guess if JJ didn't want to bring back Palpatine, he could have had Snoke be still alive in RotS. Either option is far from ideal though. TLJ is such a dumpster fire.
Southern Gentleman
Member
First thing I do when I visit Wookiepedia is switch that thing to Legends.
I mean TLJ really went out of it's way to play down the role of Snoke in everything.
Even having shots that remove any doubt about him possibly not being dead.
It's just really, really, bad story telling.
If you were going to pull that kind of switcheroo then it has to be in the context that after killing his father Kylo Ren has become so evil and consumed by the Dark Side that he is out of control entirely and just destroys Snoke. Then, of course, Kylo Ren needs an apprentice.
You only have a few hours to tell the story in the movie so having Kylo Ren flipping between kind of a good guy who wants to save Rey, and kills Snoke to do so, to the new leader of the First Order and being considered too far gone by Leia and Rey just doesn't work in such a short timescale and in this genre of movie.
I reckon it is easier to bring Palpatine back because we didn't actually see him die so who knows what happened between falling down that pit and hitting the bottom. It's fucking dumb but given the choice there is really no choice.
MilkyJoe
Member
The Disney Trilogy is not canon. Episode 9 is a movie that has been pulled apart and spliced together, until a committee decides which cut is the least offensive to audiences as possible. That is not how story telling works, that is desperation. This is not canon. This is complete shite.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
that was one of the few scenes i really enjoyed and thought was doing something genuinely new. kind of nuts it took 8 films to figure out "oh yeah a force pull in zero g would be useful". i totally get the criticisms of it tho. first and foremost due to the decision to not pursue her force journey from the start and make her a "General" (eyeroll here). given that she is a now a secret Jedi it makes all this make even less sense. like if she was a Jedi, or at least force curious, from the start, if they planned any of this shit out, it would be more coherent.
but IMO the scene failed mostly because of Rian constantly subverting expectations. she is on a ship, Kylo is going to kill her, then he does, then she gets blown out anyways, we think she is dead, then she wakes up, saves herself, yay, but then she is in a coma. all this happens in like 5 minutes, all these emotional turns keep overturning one another. it's like he is jerking the audience around. there is no time for any of these beats to land, he is so insistent about subverting what you expect. you end up expecting nothing to matter and for everything to be quickly retconned in favor of the next subversion.
or Snoke was a puppet from a secret hereto unknown dark Sith from the unknown regions, major new villain drop, grumpy Luke was a for evil clone puppet and the real Luke is trapped in battle on a dark force planet, stay tuned for episodes X-XII. how hard was that? took me 2 minutes and im not even fully awake.
there are a million ways they could have gone, and infinity of possibilities. the filmmakers just don't have any imagination.
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LaughingStock
Member
And now you'll start to notice the same pattern everywhere.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
anyone notice how two of the "good guys" smash spaceships into our heroes in TLJ? Holdo crashing into the ship with Finn, Rose, and Rey and Rose crashing a ship into Finn. they aren't smart, they are reckless. the only reason they always win with these moves is the script.
like imagine if there was a Die Hard sequel where John McClane is sidelined for a new younger character who saves the day by crashing his car into various buildings. you would think it's idiotic.
like imagine if there was a Die Hard sequel where John McClane is sidelined for a new younger character who saves the day by crashing his car into various buildings. you would think it's idiotic.
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Stiflers Mom
Banned
Imagine you could have the likes of Timothy Zahn or Mike Stackpole who have been into writing much beloved Star Wars fiction for 30 years writing your sequels, but then decide to go with some slutty just out of college chicks, just because you want to annoy your fan base.
And then complain about your fan base being annoyed because the sequels you created are shit.
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cryptoadam
Banned
So basically the whole reason Vader turned bad is shat on since some rando can just force heal like that.
We might be entering Dark Fate levels on shitting on the franchise here.
Southern Gentleman
Member
Mary Poppins Leia was by far the dumbest thing I have ever seen in Star Wars.
For me it's the fact that it basically comes out of nowhere and has no build up or any kind of meaningful aftermath.
Very similar to ramming the enemy at lightspeed too.
With Leia it is a bit more jarring as basically it's her only real "powerful" use of the force and she ultimately uses it to save only herself.
If the starting concept is that "we want to see Leia use the force in a massive way and we want it to shock the audience" then you need to have a think about it. You build it up first by at least hinting that she has been training or has some kind of force powers. Then the big reveal is that Leia uses the force to save everyone or some other selfless act. She just saves herself and that's it. Never referenced or mentioned again.
I think that "holy shit Leia can use the force and she is super powerful" is almost like a centerpiece moment of a story. You know?
Like the First Order is about to kill everyone and suddenly she can do some crazy thing to stop it.
It's just... we see Leia using the force for really the first and only time and it's just so she can save her own life.
Maybe the better move is that Poe disobeys her orders at the start there and is legitimately about to get everyone killed and Leia does something that saves everyone and the whole fleet is like "wooooaaaah HOW?" Then she can have a bit of explanation that after the fall of the Empire she was trained by Luke but ultimately she distrusts the Force because of what happened to her kid but she couldn't just let everyone die. Could easily be that the split between herself and Han was also down to her force training. Shit, you could even write it that, while Luke was simply tempted by the dark side, for Leia to be using the force would be like for Gandalf to be using the One Ring. Might get you out of a jam but in the long term it's a terrible idea.
There is so much scope that allows them to do "Leia is strong with the force and can do impressive things" and even get their whole "the force is female" agenda in but they just pick a very lazy option.
She just flies through space to save herself.
MilkyJoe
Member
Fucking amazing isn't it! It's a good job they have all those soy based lifeforms, to come to the rescue, when normal humans don't give their shitty movies the time of day.
ExpandKong
Banned
And beyond even that - actually coming out and saying “it’s so hard, there’s no source material to draw from”
Like...fucking what
DKehoe
Member
Where does the slutty part come from?
Stiflers Mom
Banned
My dirty mind, soyboy :* .
DKehoe
Member
That short blue hair really gets you going?
ExpandKong
Banned
There is nobody in that picture with blue hair.
Nymphae
Banned
Right because the evil empire is above forced procreation I'm sure. Willing to obliterate entire planets on a whim, but we'll need m'lady's permission to keep this bloodline going.
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prag16
Banned
Correct.
Correct.
Yeah, he was backed into a corner. They tossed Snoke aside like nothing, leaving them with no villain for the finale. The idea of Snoke being Plagueis was so much better. But bringing back Palpatine for IX is better than inventing another new main villain for just one movie.
Correct.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
He probably "Force Created" her or some shit. Does the movie even explain how Palps came back?
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prag16
Banned
The latest leaks indicate that it won't be explained, for what that's worth.