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[KaYotiX]

I'm enjoying the SWTOR beta. I can't wait for launch. I really don't see what ppl are complaining about unless they had huge expectations that could never be met

 

[Belfast]

I heard Final Fantasy XIV is actually fun nowadays... *rolleyes*

And it is, been playing it the last two days. Whenever I look at SWTOR screenshots now, I die a little inside. God, Final Fantasy XIV is gorgeous. Might stick to it too, if SWTOR turns out to be shite.

lol, sure.

 

[FieryBalrog]

God, Final Fantasy XIV is gorgeous.

And that's the only thing going for it.

And that too only the character/monster models. The environments 99% bland copy-paste terrain with the occasional, oooo a CASTLE.

I'll take coherent art direction and non-copypasted worlds any day. Some of the environments they've shown off in SWTOR are gorgeous.

 

[ampere]

I heard Final Fantasy XIV is actually fun nowadays... *rolleyes*

And it is, been playing it the last two days. Whenever I look at SWTOR screenshots now, I die a little inside. God, Final Fantasy XIV is gorgeous. Might stick to it too, if SWTOR turns out to be shite.

This thread isn't about FFXIV, but that game will never ever be successful after that abysmal launch.

Square is going to have trouble getting people to play whatever MMO they attempt to make next as well.

 

[kirblar]

I'm enjoying the SWTOR beta. I can't wait for launch. I really don't see what ppl are complaining about unless they had huge expectations that could never be met

It's been unplayable due to lag/framerate issues for me so far.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

I'm sorry, but you're going to spit this out with an NDA in place, either explain yourself or keep it to yourself.

Nope. I endorsed the hell out of it before when I was convinced it would be God in digital form, and I would feel guilty if some people went and bought it at launch with unrealistic expectations based on that.

Don't make me accept the fact that SWTOR is not the savior of MMO's. DON'T DO THAT TO ME.

It might still be. I want it to be. I'm just not certain that it will be anymore. Wait and see.

 

[EhrgeizVII]

This thread isn't about FFXIV, but that game will never ever be successful after that abysmal launch.

Square is going to have trouble getting people to play whatever MMO they attempt to make next as well.

Yeah, it did leave a bad impression on everyone at launch. That'll bite them in the ass forever. It's still a fun way to kill time for me anyway until SW:TOR comes out.

The new PvP video on AlterSWTOR looks really cool.

 

[gatti-man]

I heard Final Fantasy XIV is actually fun nowadays... *rolleyes*

And it is, been playing it the last two days. Whenever I look at SWTOR screenshots now, I die a little inside. God, Final Fantasy XIV is gorgeous. Might stick to it too, if SWTOR turns out to be shite.

Ff14 is not fun yet sorry. Been there since launch. I can't even imagine tor with ff14 levels of detail. I don't think it would run on any modern computer.

 

[Giolon]

Which is why there will be a NDA until launch.

QFT. I really wish the NDA would be dropped since there's so many leaks and let us offer opinions of our own. The unscrupulous can say all they want, while the rest of the honest testers are left unable to correct misinformation or counter heavily skewed leaks. I suppose if Bioware really wanted to they'd do so themselves.

 

[eastmen]

heh... i guess it was foolish to expect Bioware to compete on the same level as Blizzard. lots of impressions are meh so far. :\

When Blizzard releases a new MMORPG and people compare it to the wow thats around when the new mmorpg launches , blizzard will fail also.

6 years of a mmorpg being constantly improved and updated will be alot more polished than a mmorpg in beta.

Wow had a ton of problems when it first launched ... aside from being a poor rip of EQ but thats another story.

 

[MadraptorMan]

You know, every day that goes by I find myself wanting this game less and less...but I already pre-ordered it so I'm in the boat either way. All this waiting with nothing but leaks to go on is just sapping my interest.

If we really have to wait until December (or later) to play this I will be sorely disappointed, especially since ME3 was delayed until next year as well.

 

[Yaska]

When Blizzard releases a new MMORPG and people compare it to the wow thats around when the new mmorpg launches , blizzard will fail also.

6 years of a mmorpg being constantly improved and updated will be alot more polished than a mmorpg in beta.

Wow had a ton of problems when it first launched ... aside from being a poor rip of EQ but thats another story.

Yes, but do you think that majority of people will remember that or understand that. On launch date there will be massive amounts of posts "this game is bad, I'm goin' back to WoW"

 

[gillty]

I don't understand how its unreasonable to compare a game released in 2011 to games with versions from 2011.

My brain hurts.

 

[Kintaro]

I don't understand how its unreasonable to compare a game released in 2011 to games with versions from 2011.

My brain hurts.

Really? One has been revised for six years (with very little competition for most of it) and worked on for eight to nine total while one hasn't seen release and has been worked on for...what, three?

 

[Yaska]

I don't understand how its unreasonable to compare a game released in 2011 to games with versions from 2011.

My brain hurts.

I can't understand either. Unfortunately it happens.

 

[gatti-man]

I don't understand how its unreasonable to compare a game released in 2011 to games with versions from 2011.

My brain hurts.

Really? Because its been in development since 2003 and is by far the most lucrative game ever made. I think its unreasonable to expect any launch mmo, even one from blizzard, to compete initially with the entirety of wow especially on a content amount basis.

Comparing cponcepts, graphics, and UI features is fair. Comparing content quantity, polish, and overall balance no. Not that wow is balanced.

 

[Jira]

WoW's development started in 1999, TOR's started in 2006. MMO dev cycles are pretty much ALWAYS 5 years. 2 years of development, announcement, 3 more years of development and then release in the 5th year. There have been exceptions to this such as Star Trek and WAR, but they failed because they only had 3 years of development. Though that's not to say 5 years of development automatically means you will succeed, but it greatly increases your chances due to having a much more fleshed out and polished product.

 

[syoaran]

Really? Because its been in development since 2003 and is by far the most lucrative game ever made. I think its unreasonable to expect any launch mmo, even one from blizzard, to compete initially with the entirety of wow especially on a content amount basis.

Comparing cponcepts, graphics, and UI features is fair. Comparing content quantity, polish, and overall balance no. Not that wow is balanced.

It's unfair, but EA knew this before financing the game. I still think that TOR is the best MMO in a WoW world, even if its "just" as good rather than better

 

[FieryBalrog]

Really? One has been revised for six years (with very little competition for most of it) and worked on for eight to nine total while one hasn't seen release and has been worked on for...what, three?

Have you seen vehicles in the WoW engine? Flying? That shit is ancient tech. Not exactly hard to do a little better than an engine from the year 2000.

 

[gatti-man]

Have you seen vehicles in the WoW engine? Flying? That shit is ancient tech. Not exactly hard to do a little better than an engine from the year 2000.

Flying is hardly integral to what wow is trying to accomplish.

It's unfair, but EA knew this before financing the game. I still think that TOR is the best MMO in a WoW world, even if its "just" as good rather than better

Right. I think in time tor could surpass wow in quality and quantity of content. I also think I will enjoy TOR more than i did wow simply because of the universe and focus on real story telling. However I am still waiting for the day when someone picks up EVE's ball and runs with it. Giving us a constantly changing universe to do battle with wide ranging skills and various player created factions but with the polish and mythos of a star wars or WoW.

 

[gillty]

Really? One has been revised for six years (with very little competition for most of it) and worked on for eight to nine total while one hasn't seen release and has been worked on for...what, three?

Videos games are products, I don't give a damn how long they are in development for. I can understand not comparing the amount of content in a new mmo to an established mmo.

This game is not really evolving anything in the genre gameplay wise, all its really doing is adapting existing rpg mechanics like the conversation system and voice acting to the standard mmo. Aside from content, comparing SWTOR to 6 year old WoW is fair game.

If a product is not ready to compete with an existing products don't release it.

 

[eastmen]

Yes, but do you think that majority of people will remember that or understand that. On launch date there will be massive amounts of posts "this game is bad, I'm goin' back to WoW"

and like i said , when blizzards new mmo comes out the same thing will be said .

Aside from that , wow continues to decline

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...ns_Continue_To_Decline_Though_More_Slowly.php

I think the guy from wow is right , people can clear wow content quickly. I think swtor will have enough in it to keep people playing esp since the next wow expansion isn't until 2012.

I don't see what people are going to run back to , cat is already a year old now and i know many wow players really tired of it

 

[FieryBalrog]

6 years of a mmorpg being constantly improved and updated will be alot more polished than a mmorpg in beta.

Wow had a ton of problems when it first launched ... aside from being a poor rip of EQ but thats another story.

Wow, it's like you contradicted your own point in the space of two sentences.

 

[eastmen]

WoW's development started in 1999, TOR's started in 2006. MMO dev cycles are pretty much ALWAYS 5 years. 2 years of development, announcement, 3 more years of development and then release in the 5th year. There have been exceptions to this such as Star Trek and WAR, but they failed because they only had 3 years of development. Though that's not to say 5 years of development automatically means you will succeed, but it greatly increases your chances due to having a much more fleshed out and polished product.

Except wow has had from 1999 to 2011 while tor from 2006 to 2011 to gather content.

Also wow has been pulling in hundreds of millions each year and has a ton of money pumped into it since release.


If people compare any newly launched mmo to current day wow its going to loose . Like I said even a future blizzard mmo will loose in content and polish compared to wow of the same day.

What I've played of SWTOR is already solid and a fun experiance. I like it much more than I ever liked wow

 

[Morn]

Really? One has been revised for six years (with very little competition for most of it) and worked on for eight to nine total while one hasn't seen release and has been worked on for...what, three?

Rift managed to match 2011 WoW at release, nearly feature-for-feature. It's not unreasonable to ask the same of an even higher profile MMO.

What I've played of SWTOR is already solid and a fun experiance. I like it much more than I ever liked wow

You're just experiencing the newbie experience euphoria. Come back when you get above level 20/30.

 

[FieryBalrog]

EQ has been in development for what, 14 years, we should all be playing EQ I guess

 

[Morn]

Videos games are products, I don't give a damn how long they are in development for. I can understand not comparing the amount of content in a new mmo to an established mmo.

This game is not really evolving anything in the genre gameplay wise, all its really doing is adapting existing rpg mechanics like the conversation system and voice acting to the standard mmo. Aside from content, comparing SWTOR to 6 year old WoW is fair game.

If a product is not ready to compete with an existing products don't release it.

This. A thousand times. THIS.

Again, look at Rift.

 

[eastmen]

Wow, it's like you contradicted your own point in the space of two sentences.

Um not at all ?

Which part don't you understand


Wow came out in nov of 2004 . Its now 2011 . Wow is 7 years old. A 7 year old mmorpg that has constantly been updated , polished and have had many expansions for will be more polished than a game still in beta.


Then I said , WOW when it came out was extremely buggy with many problems. Thus proving my point , not contradicting it.

Look at any mmorpg and compare beta to its current state and aside from perhaps SWG you will find a game many times better. This is true even for wow.

No game is going to be able match wow on polish and content. Wow not only had a 5 year long development cycle but its had an additional 7 years of content updates /expansions and polish .

As I said even blizzard's next mmorpg wont have the content or polish of WOW at the date of the new mmo's release

 

[Einbroch]

Videos games are products, I don't give a damn how long they are in development for. I can understand not comparing the amount of content in a new mmo to an established mmo.

This game is not really evolving anything in the genre gameplay wise, all its really doing is adapting existing rpg mechanics like the conversation system and voice acting to the standard mmo. Aside from content, comparing SWTOR to 6 year old WoW is fair game.

If a product is not ready to compete with an existing products don't release it.

This. I hate it when people say that WoW has had more time to mature and perfect it's formula. Who cares? If I want to play an MMO and have WoW or SWToR to choose from (and I haven't played either), I will play the better game at that moment that I pick it up.

Does potential have something to do with it? Yeah, a little. But if I have the choice between:

A jawbreaker that tastes really good now, or
A jawbreaker that tastes okay but the inner flavors may be better...

I'm going for the former.

 

[Morn]

As I said even blizzard's next mmorpg wont have the content or polish of WOW at the date of the new mmo's release

No, but it'll use modern quest design and have features that players have come to expect from a MMO after years of WoW. You can bet on that.

 

[Kintaro]

This game is not really evolving anything in the genre gameplay wise, all its really doing is adapting existing rpg mechanics like the conversation system and voice acting to the standard mmo. Aside from content, comparing SWTOR to 6 year old WoW is fair game.

If a product is not ready to compete with an existing products don't release it.

I would consider adding this amount of voice acting and the conversation adding to the genre quite a bit. I won't be alone in thinking so either. By this logic, you can brush off WoW by saying "It just took EQ and slapped some other stuff on it in Warcraft paint."

There is no one here who will say how TOR can't compete with WoW at this point in the game. People just tease and say shit then hide behind "NDA can't say anything! LULZ!" TOR will be fine.

 

[eastmen]

Rift managed to match 2011 WoW at release, nearly feature-for-feature. It's not unreasonable to ask the same of an even higher profile MMO.

And did it match it in content ? No not at all . Rift was an extremely shallow game

Also why would u want a feature for feature clone of a game ? Why not simply play the original game ? Seems silly to want .

You're just experiencing the newbie experience euphoria. Come back when you get above level 20/30.

I've actually enjoyed my time in the game .

FieryBalrog

EQ has been in development for what, 14 years, we should all be playing EQ I guess

Well EQ has allways been a better game than wow .

 

[EhrgeizVII]

Rift plays like utter crap though, WoW never has.

 

[eastmen]

No, but it'll use modern quest design and have features that players have come to expect from a MMO after years of WoW. You can bet on that.

Explain to me the modern quest design . Because the majority of what i've seen in wow is the same quest design that existed in EQ 1

 

[Einbroch]

And did it match it in content ? No not at all . Rift was an extremely shallow game

I agree that Rift is a pretty bad game, but shallow? It has battlegrounds, raids, heroic instances, regular instances, crafting, and outdoor raids/rifts.

It's not a shallow game. The only thing that WoW has "more" than it is arenas.

 

[FieryBalrog]

Um not at all ?

Which part don't you understand


Wow came out in nov of 2004 . Its now 2011 . Wow is 7 years old. A 7 year old mmorpg that has constantly been updated , polished and have had many expansions for will be more polished than a game still in beta.

When WoW came out EQ was 5 years old. EQ was updated and had many expansions while WoW was in beta.

Then I said , WOW when it came out was extremely buggy with many problems. Thus proving my point , not contradicting it.

Yea, remember how WoW was extremely buggy so everyone went back to EQ because it was 5 years old and had so much content and polish.

BTW I was there at WoW launch, it was not "extremely buggy", unless you don't know the difference between "our server architecture is getting hammered by 1 million players" and "bugs!!!"

 

[eastmen]

When WoW came out EQ was 5 years old. EQ was updated and had many expansions while WoW was in beta.

and eq is still the better game.

Yea, remember how WoW was extremely buggy so everyone went back to EQ because it was 5 years old and had so much content and polish.

BTW I was there at WoW launch, it was not "extremely buggy", unless you don't know the difference between "our server architecture is getting hammered by 1 million players" and "bugs!!!"

Popularity and quality doesn't go hand in hand . The main problem for EQ is that it was extremely established and was very hard for new players to come into. It also had the problem of the lack luster EQ2 .

Wow hit at a good time where a few new mmorpgs didn't stick and the older mmo's didn't do enough to bring in new players.

Wow was horrible at launch and it got very lucky to have survived. I know many people who quit and have never gone back because of the initial loot bugs and server lines.

EQ 1 actually gained about a hundred thousand subs in late 2004 when wow launched and didn't have its big drop till march of 2006.

 

[FieryBalrog]

and eq is still the better game.

Popularity and quality doesn't go hand in hand . The main problem for EQ is that it was extremely established and was very hard for new players to come into. It also had the problem of the lack luster EQ2 .

Wow hit at a good time where a few new mmorpgs didn't stick and the older mmo's didn't do enough to bring in new players.

Wow was horrible at launch and it got very lucky to have survived. I know many people who quit and have never gone back because of the initial loot bugs and server lines.

Your logic is nonsense. If WoW can come out in 2004 and be favorably compared to EQ with its "5 years of polish and expansions and updates", then a game in 2011 should easily compare favorably with 7 year old WoW.

You can't have it both ways, sorry.

Explain to me the modern quest design . Because the majority of what i've seen in wow is the same quest design that existed in EQ 1

Bullshit. Have you even played EQ or are you just making shit up? Remember how in EQ you had to spam talk on every vendor, how quests had to pieced together from random scraps of info, how you would try to use or give random items to vendors in the hope of putting together a quest?

Yea, that's the same design all right.

I have no idea why you think EQ was the better game when its design was chock full of this kind of idiotic design that happened to comport with THE VISION (brought to you by Brad McQuaid!) Like sitting down for minutes at a time staring at your spellbook to regen mana. The VISION wins again.

 

[eastmen]

Your logic is nonsense. If WoW can come out in 2004 and be favorably compared to EQ with its "5 years of polish and expansions and updates", then a game in 2011 should easily compare favorably with 7 year old WoW.

You can't have it both ways, sorry.

WOW didn't compare favorably with EQ . WOW was a buggy POS and had a fraction of the content of WOW .

Or do you disagree ? Wow had no pvp and no raids

WOW didn't hit it out of the park because of the amount of content or features over EQ . It was a newer title that was easy to get into vs a 5 year old game with a bunch of expansions and established players and it had a big marketing campain .

The other thing you don't understand is that wow didn't have an affect on EQ's numbers at launch. EQ actually gained 100k subscribers over 2004. It wasn't until 2005 that it droped to its early 2004 numbers and the large drop to sub 2004 numbers didn't happen until 2006.

Wow didn't steal any users from EQ at that point.

Bullshit. Have you even played EQ or are you just making shit up? Remember how in EQ you had to spam talk on every vendor, how quests had to pieced together from random scraps of info, how you would try to use or give random items to vendors in the hope of putting together a quest?

Yea, that's the same design all right.

I have no idea why you think EQ was the better game when its design was chock full of this kind of idiotic design that happened to comport with THE VISION (brought to you by Brad McQuaid!)

I played eq for 2 years and eq2 for 3 years. I'm on year like 16 of UO

WOW has its own amount of idiotic game design.

 

[Kintaro]

I played eq for 2 years and eq2 for 3 years. I'm on year like 16 of UO

WOW has its own amount of idiotic game design.

God I miss classic UO. MMOs and their players a gigantic pussies now when I look back on the fun I had in that game...

 

[eastmen]

God I miss classic UO. MMOs and their players a gigantic pussies now when I look back on the fun I had in that game...

Find a good fan run shard to play on . I beta tested UO and played it for 5 years before moving to a fan based one.

 

[FieryBalrog]

Yea, too bad the genre matured out of "I have 12 hours of free time a day, let me dominate this virtual world".

Not catassing an MMO is for pussies

 

[eastmen]

Yea, too bad the genre matured out of "I have 12 hours of free time a day, let me dominate this virtual world".

Not catassing an MMO is for pussies

UO wasn't like that . At first I played alot , it came out my senior year of highschool but shortly after I started college and had less time . But nothing was ever as fun as making our own adventures. Its one of the things that wow / eq / tor all lack .

 

[Rflagg]

I wish the same rules that applied GT5 vs Forza also applied to SWTOR vs WOW. I really wish it would be confined to it's own thread, because it really is not that interesting to read.

Edit:

I also wish the NDA/beta teases (good or bad) would cease. They don't do anything to help anymore.

O hell yes I should have mentions this as well.

 

[Kintaro]

Yea, too bad the genre matured out of "I have 12 hours of free time a day, let me dominate this virtual world".

Not catassing an MMO is for pussies

Chastising.

And no, it hasn't matured out of it. Not at all.

I wish the same rules that applied GT5 vs Forza also applied to SWTOR vs WOW. I really wish it would be confined to it's own thread, because it really is not that interesting to read.

I agree. I also wish the NDA/beta teases (good or bad) would cease. They don't do anything to help anymore.

 

[Alex]

(FFXIV) The gameplay's not bad.

You'd be extremely hard pressed to find another MMO with worse gameplay and tuning and less content than Final Fantasy XIV. It'll be a year old in September and it's absolutely amazing how little progress it's made. It's gotten one major content patch which is anything but, not exactly impressive for a game they supposedly put back in full development but at least they're not charging anyone.

Yea, too bad the genre matured out of "I have 12 hours of free time a day, let me dominate this virtual world".

Not catassing an MMO is for pussies

UO wasn't anything like the traditional MMO we have nowadays. No one played UO for 12 hours straight, it wasn't about raiding or equipment or levels. The game in all aspects was extremely progressive and nothing has come close to what it did with it's open world design. It's a shame we haven't seen anything like it since.

I like loot n' levels MMOs and all, now that EQ's retardation is dead and buried and MMOs can be actual video games now, it'd just be nice to see more variety.

 

[FieryBalrog]

UO wasn't anything like the traditional MMO we have nowadays. No one played UO for 12 hours straight, the game in all aspects was extremely progressive and it's a shame we haven't seen anything like it since.

I didn't play UO but tons of people left UO and went to EQ because it was a griefer's paradise. Extremely progressive in the sense that other people could fuck up your shit, uh, I guess.

Maybe in UO's case (as opposed to DIKUs) you didn't play for 12 hours straight but it still wasn't a pick up and play game. Maybe I'm a pussy but I don't want to devote my life to an MMO to play it.

Also I have no idea why this is in the TOR thread because TOR is like the polar opposite of UO.

 

[Rapture]

Could have sworn i came here to read about SWTOR...

 

[Dakota47]

Could have sworn i came here to read about SWTOR...

Me after I just woke up: "Almost three new pages of comments in the GAF SW:TOR thread since I went to bed. There must be some big news!" I was disappoint.

 

[Won]

Could have sworn i came here to read about SWTOR...

Well NDA, NDA and NDA. And of course NDA.