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StarCraft 2 Beta |OT| (Beta Now Reopen, GL HF)

syoaran

Member
yeah, Terran seems to be the race of choice at the moment. Its what I'm sticking too at the moment, but I think after release your going to see a huge range of race's in all the ladders (I hope). Had a few 2v2's with Chris, despite the fact I'm still an utter beginner we won 2 out of the 3 (ok, so one, the zerg player raged quit quite early).

Really looking forward to playing with more gaf'ers over beta/live - feels nice to have some sort of rhythem in the matches when you know what tactic your team-mate is using.
 

aznpxdd

Member
Terran isn't the race at all...

Its just that new players / people who suck (no offense to anyone here) don't know how to deal with MMM.
 

Ultimatum

Banned
eggandI said:
Haven't seen this posted here but: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSYAIkrwTJY&feature=related

TvP

seriously one of the best matches I've seen so far. It's long (almost an hour) but it's really amazing.

Really good match, but watching these is killing me. lol :(

Ice Monkey said:
Also, off topic, but HOLE. EEE. SHIT. I was just reading this review of cnc4 from gamepro. I can't remember any other review that had me weeping, and just after reading the first two paragraphs no less.

Tying in to my earlier comment about how thankful I am for starcraft 2, it pains me to see the majority of the RTS world in such an exodus from what I consider the great tenets of a good RTS.
I totally agree. I suppose things like base building and resource management do make the game more complicated, but it adds so much more depth and just feels so much more rewarding. DOW2 is a great game, but I hate the approach its taken.

Oh, and don't complain, at least you have a key for yourself :lol
 
MisterAnderson said:
I had taken the advice of someone in here to set up a bit of a choke point of cannons to help against MMM, and it helped a ton in setting this flank up as you can see in the screenshots I took:

That was me :) You're welcome! :p


aznpxdd said:
Turtle, let's finish our placement tonight...with a BANG!
Will you be on late? I probably won't be home until 11pm CST or midnight CST.. Going out w/ a few friends.. Thats 9pm or 10pm PST.
 

Zzoram

Member
Ice Monkey said:
Tying in to my earlier comment about how thankful I am for starcraft 2, it pains me to see the majority of the RTS world in such an exodus from what I consider the great tenets of a good RTS.

RTS as a genre was moving in the wrong direction IMO. Going all control points with minimal troops and no bases may seem like it can bring in new audiences, and maybe it does get a few people who don't usually play RTS, but I think that the loss of depth and complexity is a huge problem and a much larger number of core RTS players have decided to pass on this trend.

I highly doubt that Company of Heroes or Dawn of War 2 sold more than a million copies, and CnC4 won't either because it's following in Relic's direction. Starcraft II's sales will prove what I've always known, that RTS gamers still exist, it's just that developers haven't given them the RTS games that they want to play. Age of Empires is probably the best selling non-Blizzard RTS franchise, followed closely by CnC. Guess what? All those franchises have significant base management components and resource collection. The "new" generation of RTS games have been relatively weak in sales compared to the old guard of Blizzard/Ensemble/Westwood, and I believe this is due to their new direction, not because PC RTS gamers are gone and not because of piracy (back then they couldn't even tell burned discs from real ones, and Starcraft still sold millions and is still selling on store shelves today, 12 years later, and gets restocked regularly). If nobody is willing (or abel) to develop a base management, resource collection, macro style RTS anymore, then Blizzard will happily claim the entire market.
 

remz

Member
I think Dawn of War is awesome, and company of heroes as well, but they're completely diffferant to old school RTS, and well, IMO Starcraft should stay like starcraft mang.

also

Relic's Dawn of War 2 famously did away with both base building and the resource gathering, relying instead on off-screen reinforcements via resource-ticking control points.
Makes it sound like there's no resources in DoW2 at all. Sigh.
 

Zzoram

Member
remz said:
I think Dawn of War is awesome, and company of heroes as well, but they're completely diffferant to old school RTS, and well, IMO Starcraft should stay like starcraft mang.

If you listen to games media people, half of them are talking about how Starcraft is "old" and Relic is "new" and therefore Starcraft is bad. They always forget that new doesn't always mean better. Relic games are pretty good, but they're not better than Blizzard games.
 

remz

Member
Zzoram said:
If you listen to games media people, half of them are talking about how Starcraft is "old" and Relic is "new" and therefore Starcraft is bad. They always forget that new doesn't always mean better. Relic games are pretty good, but they're not better than Blizzard games.
I'd argue "better" is not really applicable to either.


It's like, Blizzard games are Apple Pie, Relic is Cherry. CnC4 is horrible imitation cherry with apples smeared on it
 
remz said:
I'd argue "better" is not really applicable to either.


It's like, Blizzard games are Apple Pie, Relic is Cherry. CnC4 is horrible imitation cherry with apples smeared on it


Agreed

Two different sides of a pizza.. Blizzard on one and Relic on the other. One has cheese one has pepperoni.

They both nailed exactly what they wanted to do successfully and in the end it just allows for the RTS series to grow.
 

Zzoram

Member
TurtleSnatcher said:
Agreed

Two different sides of a pizza.. Blizzard on one and Relic on the other. One has cheese one has pepperoni.

They both nailed exactly what they wanted to do successfully and in the end it just allows for the RTS series to grow.

So like the split in shooters to first person and third person?
 
So I'm well aware that this is way in the past, back when they first started showing off Terran gameplay in 2007, but am I the only one who thought it was badass that the Thor was a unit that was built by an SCV as if it were a structure? I was really disappointed when I was testing out Terrans when I discovered that they took that out and just had the Thor pop out of the factory like any old unit. Plus the "unfolding" animation that they did to the Thor was fucking awesome after it was built.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzEtFKM4fj8#t=7m34s

Also, I really think that Vikings should be moved from the Starport to the Factory (in Mech form) and have a flight transformation upgrade in the Starport Techlab or something.

And I guess they took out the Reaper's demo charge ability?
 

Nykad

Member
I was one of the many in the wave invite a couple weeks ago. I've been playing the beta off and on and so far I'm sorry to say I'm not impressed. I'm not sure how i feel about SC2 yet because it's such a strange feeling for me to not absolutely love a Blizzard title out of the gate. This is coming from someone who's been PC gaming since 97 and my first Blizzard game I played was WC2.

I figure most of my disappointment with SC2 is that it feels exactly like SC1. I'm not trying to troll anyone by saying this but SC2 feels like SC1 with some new units and better graphics. And I can understand for some people that's probably the best thing since sliced bread but for me I've come to expect sequels to evolve from their predecessors. Blizzard games have never been known to introduce cutting edge features but instead incorporate features their competition have used and turn them into something better and make them their own. Unless I'm missing something SC2 is missing that.

Dawn of War 2 must have ruined RTS's for me or maybe I'm just getting old.
 
Nykad said:
I was one of the many in the wave invite a couple weeks ago. I've been playing the beta off and on and so far I'm sorry to say I'm not impressed. I'm not sure how i feel about SC2 yet because it's such a strange feeling for me to not absolutely love a Blizzard title out of the gate. This is coming from someone who's been PC gaming since 97 and my first Blizzard game I played was WC2.

I figure most of my disappointment with SC2 is that it feels exactly like SC1. I'm not trying to troll anyone by saying this but SC2 feels like SC1 with some new units and better graphics. And I can understand for some people that's probably the best thing since sliced bread but for me I've come to expect sequels to evolve from their predecessors. Blizzard games have never been known to introduce cutting edge features but instead incorporate features their competition have used and turn them into something better and make them their own. Unless I'm missing something SC2 is missing that.

Dawn of War 2 must have ruined RTS's for me or maybe I'm just getting old.

While I get your point and understand why you might feel that way about SC2 (although I personally feel like it's a very different and evolved game), all I know is that if Blizzard tried to take Dawn of War 2's approach and "improve" upon it, I would have not touched StarCraft 2 with a ten foot pole. I love Dawn of War 2, but keep that capture point shit out of my StarCraft.

I definitely see where you're coming from though, and could see why SC2 might feel like the same game with better graphics/new units etc. I think it's more than that, and while it needs work to be balanced, so far I'm happy with the direction they have taken it.
 
Nykad said:
I was one of the many in the wave invite a couple weeks ago. I've been playing the beta off and on and so far I'm sorry to say I'm not impressed. I'm not sure how i feel about SC2 yet because it's such a strange feeling for me to not absolutely love a Blizzard title out of the gate. This is coming from someone who's been PC gaming since 97 and my first Blizzard game I played was WC2.

I figure most of my disappointment with SC2 is that it feels exactly like SC1. I'm not trying to troll anyone by saying this but SC2 feels like SC1 with some new units and better graphics. And I can understand for some people that's probably the best thing since sliced bread but for me I've come to expect sequels to evolve from their predecessors. Blizzard games have never been known to introduce cutting edge features but instead incorporate features their competition have used and turn them into something better and make them their own. Unless I'm missing something SC2 is missing that.

Dawn of War 2 must have ruined RTS's for me or maybe I'm just getting old.
That doesn't mean RTS is ruined for you, it just means you're no longer as interested in the old-school competitive base-building/resource-gathering style. There's nothing really wrong with that. This is a pretty amazing year for strategy, with a whole lot of good games out or coming out across real-time, turn-based, small-scale, large-scale, and whatever other criteria. I love StarCraft II but I wouldn't want everyone to just only like the same game. That mentality is what caused RTS to suffer a pretty significant decline for a while in the first place.
 

suaveric

Member
Single player is where Blizzard is supposed to be taking chances on gameplay. With South Korea making the original game a national sport, I don't think Blizzard had a lot of room to change much in multiplayer.
 

Zzoram

Member
If they tried to make Dawn of War 2 and call it Starcraft II, most of the fans would not come back.

Starcraft II is the sequel to Starcraft Broodwar, and it feels exactly like that. If you make a sequel to be completely different than the original in gameplay, it's not a sequel. Starcraft II is amazing if you like or love Starcraft Broodwar, because it's like Broodwar, but better.
 

Zzoram

Member
suaveric said:
Single player is where Blizzard is supposed to be taking chances on gameplay. With South Korea making the original game a national sport, I don't think Blizzard had a lot of room to change much in multiplayer.

I don't know if Blizzard even wanted to do something different for multiplayer. Different isn't always better. Refining the core gameplay is something that nobody has been doing, so Starcraft II will fill a very large gap in the RTS market that hasn't been satisfied since Warcraft III.
 

Zzoram

Member
Man, I am loosing to a lot of sneaky stuff. Warp Ray sniping my main, DT rushes, I keep forgetting about all these things and getting broken by them.
 

Draft

Member
Zzoram said:
I don't know if Blizzard even wanted to do something different for multiplayer. Different isn't always better. Refining the core gameplay is something that nobody has been doing, so Starcraft II will fill a very large gap in the RTS market that hasn't been satisfied since Warcraft III.
Exactly. It's like if SFV came out and it had 8 way movement and DBZ style flying and pokemon balls everywhere, dudes would flip their shit.
 
aznpxdd said:
I'll be on later tonight.

Edit: Just watched the TvP match. Eh, they're alright.

If you're talking about my match, yeah I'm not very good yet. I was just proud of that game since it felt like a big comeback for me since I basically lost my starting location base but ended up winning it. Sorry if I misrepresented the game as being this fantastic replay to watch, I mainly spoke up about it because of whoever was asking how to counter marines + marauders.
 

aznpxdd

Member
MisterAnderson said:
If you're talking about my match, yeah I'm not very good yet. I was just proud of that game since it felt like a big comeback for me since I basically lost my starting location base but ended up winning it. Sorry if I misrepresented the game as being this fantastic replay to watch, I mainly spoke up about it because of whoever was asking how to counter marines + marauders.

Nah, I'm talking about the other TvP match. The 5 part one on youtube.
 

Zzoram

Member
ChronicleX said:
Hows the gameplay compared to bloodwar currently?

Broodwar.

It feels like Broodwar and has many of the same basic mechanics, but it feels better and there is less frustration.
 
So do 2v2 matches ever last longer than the first attack? It seems like the only good strat early game is to rush with your teammate, by the time the defending teammate arrives to aid the base under siege, that base's force is already decimated so it's basically 2v1 at that point and the underdog doesn't really stand a chance. Granted I'm still new and haven't played enough to come to this conclusion without being at least a little ignorant, but I just don't see how a 2v2 match could ever last "long."

In WarCraft III, scrolls of town portals prevented this by allowing you to TP to your ally's base being attacked, which made rushing more difficult. I'm not suggesting we add hero units into SC2 that can carry teleportation items or anything, but like I said, as it stands now I don't think I'm going to be playing too many team games in SC2.
 

aznpxdd

Member
MisterAnderson said:
So do 2v2 matches ever last longer than the first attack? It seems like the only good strat early game is to rush with your teammate, by the time the defending teammate arrives to aid the base under siege, that base's force is already decimated so it's basically 2v1 at that point and the underdog doesn't really stand a chance. Granted I'm still new and haven't played enough to come to this conclusion without being at least a little ignorant, but I just don't see how a 2v2 match could ever last "long."

In WarCraft III, scrolls of town portals prevented this by allowing you to TP to your ally's base being attacked, which made rushing more difficult. I'm not suggesting we add hero units into SC2 that can carry teleportation items or anything, but like I said, as it stands now I don't think I'm going to be playing too many team games in SC2.

Eh, it depends. The last placement match I had with turtle, I came back in a 1v2.
 

Zzoram

Member
Draft said:
Exactly. It's like if SFV came out and it had 8 way movement and DBZ style flying and pokemon balls everywhere, dudes would flip their shit.

Street Fighter IV is actually a great analogy for Starcraft II. 3D fighters with side-stepping had completely dominated the market for years. Then Street Fighter IV came out, updating the graphics but staying true to the mechanics of Street Fighter II, largely considered to be the best of the golden age of fighters. People loved it and hailed it as a refreshing return to the roots of the genre.
 

Blizzard

Banned
syoaran said:
yeah, Terran seems to be the race of choice at the moment. Its what I'm sticking too at the moment, but I think after release your going to see a huge range of race's in all the ladders (I hope). Had a few 2v2's with Chris, despite the fact I'm still an utter beginner we won 2 out of the 3 (ok, so one, the zerg player raged quit quite early).

Really looking forward to playing with more gaf'ers over beta/live - feels nice to have some sort of rhythem in the matches when you know what tactic your team-mate is using.
The last beta update only adjusted/nerfed zerg and protoss, right? I also thought they said their official stats had terran losing the most games and terran+terran teams being the weakest, so maybe more terrans now are a result of their balancing efforts?
 

Zzoram

Member
MisterAnderson said:
So do 2v2 matches ever last longer than the first attack? It seems like the only good strat early game is to rush with your teammate, by the time the defending teammate arrives to aid the base under siege, that base's force is already decimated so it's basically 2v1 at that point and the underdog doesn't really stand a chance. Granted I'm still new and haven't played enough to come to this conclusion without being at least a little ignorant, but I just don't see how a 2v2 match could ever last "long."

In WarCraft III, scrolls of town portals prevented this by allowing you to TP to your ally's base being attacked, which made rushing more difficult. I'm not suggesting we add hero units into SC2 that can carry teleportation items or anything, but like I said, as it stands now I don't think I'm going to be playing too many team games in SC2.

It's a good idea to each have a worker scout the enemy, so you can see their troops moving out BEFORE they're in your base. That way you can consolidate your forces and meet them on more even terms.
 

Blizzard

Banned
Okay, finally tried to do something for the first time ingame, and I did the novice find-match thing. It sits for a while with the orange searching thing at the top (sometimes cancelling it doesn't seem to work), and sometimes it might say a player has been found. Then it just resets the "waiting" button back to "find matches" or whatnot.

Then if I try to search again, it says I can't enter the matchmaking queue because my status has been locked. Is there something obvious I'm missing? Do I have to go setup portforwarding just to play a round? :/
 

Blizzard

Banned
It seems I can't find any sort of practice round, or join any of the existing games listed in custom games. Are those all partly-empty games? It would seem nice if they showed a 1/2 or 3/4 player count. :( I have been able to get a spinning circle screen after trying to join a game, but it just seems to spin forever.
 

Blizzard

Banned
I added 1119 and 1120 manually to the Vista firewall, and either that or restarting StarCraft 2 seemed to fix it, because I got in a novice 1v1 matchup.

I assumed I was going to get stomped as I learned everything (including new keys...R used to be rally point I think, now Y is). I really like the little details they have added to make it less frustrating, like LOWERABLE SUPPLY DEPOTS. Best thing ever. And units moving out of the way so you can push your horde of 40 marines through some stationary tanks.

Fortunately it was only the 3rd game or so for the guy I was playing, who just used the mouse, and I was at least trying to learn the hotkeys. It took me a bit to figure out that hitting alt-1, 1 would jump instantly to the unit. The F1 for SCV thing is nice, but sometimes I can't figure out how to make it jump the camera to available SCVs. Is there a way to do that?

Graphics were laggy on ultra which it recommended (4850 512MB), but high seemed to work pretty well at 1680x1050...aside from making my card get crazy hot like most games on Vista these days. :( Typing in the interface feels slightly lagged but overall it's pretty decent. I didn't pay particular attention, but I wouldn't be surprised if the command lag for units is relatively low as well, and there were over 10,000 concurrent players in the beta tonight if I remember correctly.

In the end, I got attacked 2-3 times by carriers, void rays, and giant robot protoss walker things. A couple of thors, a couple of air attack ships, and tons of marines/marauders/a few medevacs saved me. A sensor tower also helped me detect an incoming attack and pull people back. In the end, I just threw everything I had left all the way across the map, and fortunately the other player hadn't expanded beyond two bases either. I had marines, like 3 thors, and a few tanks in the front lines, and nuked him once as I attacked (once more as I was cleaning up)...the thors were the MVPs since basically everything died except the ghost, a thor, and an SCV (maybe one siege tank that got destroyed in the process). They took out the remaining carriers/void rays/whatever was left to attack me in the base, and then one by one took out buildings while I built a few other units to go across the map. XD

So...winning in 1v1 against a noob player isn't anything to brag about, but overall it was fun, they said they enjoyed it more than being stomped in 10 minutes, and I got to learn a little bit about the new units and setup etc. I think overall I like the way things are looking, and it's very shiny, though it's intimidating to learn everything even for a single race like terran. I assume the practice mode is at mid speed too...on highest speed I'd probably be hard pressed to keep up. I had lots of minerals left over.

Do terrans have any wraith equivalent now, i.e. cloaked flying units?
 

nilbog21

Banned
MisterAnderson said:
So do 2v2 matches ever last longer than the first attack? It seems like the only good strat early game is to rush with your teammate, by the time the defending teammate arrives to aid the base under siege, that base's force is already decimated so it's basically 2v1 at that point and the underdog doesn't really stand a chance. Granted I'm still new and haven't played enough to come to this conclusion without being at least a little ignorant, but I just don't see how a 2v2 match could ever last "long."

In WarCraft III, scrolls of town portals prevented this by allowing you to TP to your ally's base being attacked, which made rushing more difficult. I'm not suggesting we add hero units into SC2 that can carry teleportation items or anything, but like I said, as it stands now I don't think I'm going to be playing too many team games in SC2.

bro first of all thx for not suggesting that we add hero units into SC2 so that u can teleport to save ur teamate. 2nd, u should have scouts to kno wen they leave their base and have ur units (u shouldnt be building canons, bunkers,etc > u should have lots of tier 1 units prob) ready to smash wherever they hit. u will have terrain advantage since ur partner usually has higherground/choke, just don't get ur doods intercepted trying to go save him too soon. u gotta be on the ball tho, if u learn that ur teamate is getting attacked because there is a shitton of dude at his front obliterating his shit, you fucked up
 

noisome07

Banned
So, does anyone want to teach me how to play? I've played about 5 games so far. Each one ending within 10 minutes or so. Completely dominated each game. I "get" the game, I guess you could say but I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I've played SC/BW in the past and put countless hours into other RTS's.

So... any help? =/

And yes I know, most will say "keep playing" but I just want some tips or maybe someone to play with that knows exactly what they're doing.
 

aznpxdd

Member
noisome07 said:
So, does anyone want to teach me how to play? I've played about 5 games so far. Each one ending within 10 minutes or so. Completely dominated each game. I "get" the game, I guess you could say but I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I've played SC/BW in the past and put countless hours into other RTS's.

So... any help? =/

And yes I know, most will say "keep playing" but I just want some tips or maybe someone to play with that knows exactly what they're doing.

Watch replays?
 
aznpxdd said:
Tonight was a good night.

Tonight was a mighty fine night.


DeltronZero (aznpxdd) and I finished placement.. then played a bunch of games and jumped from Rank 60 2v2 Platinum (where they placed us) to Rank 9 2v2 Platinum. :D

mint my other partner who I'm 2v2 Platinum with was with his brother and they are in the same Division at rank 13. Woot go GAF!
 
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