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[maniac-kun]

http://www.gamerzines.com/pc/news/ai-starcraft-2-beta.html

The competitive beta has received a lot of flack recently, with some complaining that the level of entry is just too high for anyone other than Starcraft veterans to get involved. This is an impression Blizzard are keen to change however as new functionality will continually be added before the game's release in the summer.

i think this is true iam in the beta for like 5 days now and it realy hard to get things right. only if you have a lot of starcraft experience you are good in this beta. and it dosnt help much that the system somehow put me in the silver league on both 2on2 and 1on1 and iam realy bad i havent won a single game in the silver league ever. and only got in it because people had some disconnect issues at the ranking matches

 

[Corran Horn]

I have not won a game today...wtf im horrible :lol

 

[IceMarker]

I have not won a game today...wtf im horrible :lol

Join the crowd.

 

[ZealousD]

Yes, I am still looking for some help on the Official Thead. :lol

Need somebody who's pretty good with Photoshop. Wanting to make the thread look a bit like the game's Terran interface. If you think you can pull that off, send me a PM.

 

[maniac-kun]

I have not won a game today...wtf im horrible :lol

on the next reset iam going to loose all ranking matches on purpose :lol
i still have problems with the air units ._.

 

[Corran Horn]

I feel so much better battling with zerg as protoss. First win today :lol

 

[ZealousD]

IMPORTANT 1V1 TOURNAMENT INFORMATION

We have 24 signups for the 1v1 tourney

1. ZealousD (Zealous.demon)
2. Milabrega (Milabrega.milabrega)
3. Trasher (trasher.trasher)
4. Pandaman (Panda.craft)
5. FromTheFuture (Alumus.mosaic)
6. -COOLIO- (COOLIO.nick)
7. Wedge7 (wedge.wedge)
8. TurtleSnatcher (pezradar.gbx)
9. Zzoram (zzoram.zzoram)
10. MisterAnderson (PyroGX.ptmc)
11. Cheeto (Cheeto.bandito)
12. Terproerg (Terproerg.terproerg)
13. AbortedWalrusFetus (WalrusFetus.aborted)
14. Procarbine (procarbine.red)
15. hobart (hobart.hobartaj)
16. fatty (Robert.fatty)
17. valenti (valenti.valenti)
18. DemiMatt (demi.batsu)
20. Elixtar (elix.elix)
21. Ice Monkey (operation.cwal)
22. Hazaro (haz.ard)
23. shagg_187 (shagg.gaf)
24. nilbog21 (vautrin.ziz)

Due in part to the large number of signups, I want make sure this tournament doesn't draaaaag out forever. I'm thinking we should set a specific date to begin the tournament. Most gaffers seem to be on by 11:30 PM EST, so I'm thinking we should start this Monday April 8th at that time.

I doubt we can finish before everybody has to go to bed, so I want to finish it on Tuesday April 9th. At the very least, I think the finals and 3rd place match should be done the next day. Both sets should be 2 out of 3.

Is this agreeable? Also, do you guys want to do single elim or double elim?

Edit: April, not May!

 

[Meeru]

May 8th??? By that time Closed Beta will be over :lol

 

[ZealousD]

May 8th??? By that time Closed Beta will be over :lol

My bad, I meant April. May 8th is not a Monday. :lol

So one week from today.

 

[BlueScrote]

Had a pretty nice entertaining match today.

Match starts, I say "gl hf". He says "Fuck you asshole". I think ok, whatever. This is PvP. I scout and we get our gateways up around the same time, but I end up having way more zealots than he does. While I'm at his base with my zealots, I notice a pylon by the front of my base, and immediately destroy it with the newly created zealots at my base. As I destroy his base he just rages at me about how I was cheap because I rushed etc etc.

I don't think players really utilize the new race specific macros (at least at my level of play :lol ) as much as they can. Chrono boost is a god send, as is the queen. Haven't used mules too much, as I haven't play too much terran, but I imagine they have the same boost on econ that the P and Z have on unit production.

 

[Scrow]

Just noticed that Ghost EMP mentions uncloaking units that are hit by it. Does that mean you can EMP a dark templar or observer to reveal it?

hmm... since EMP has an area of effect, can you target your own units with it to reveal DTs that're tearing your marines to shreds?

does it even require a target? can you just click any location to use it?

 

[ZealousD]

hmm... since EMP has an area of effect, can you target your own units with it to reveal DTs that're tearing your marines to shreds?

does it even require a target? can you just click any location to use it?

You don't need a target for EMP. You can just click the ground.

 

[Milabrega]

What format you doing ZealousD?

Single Elim, Double Elim?

Winner moves on, best of 3, best of 5?

Map rules?

 

[ZealousD]

What format you doing ZealousD?

Single Elim, Double Elim?

Winner moves on, best of 3, best of 5?

Map rules?

I don't know whether we should do single or double. I'm leaning towards single for time, but depending on how the brackets turn out we may turn it into double elim at the end of the bracket. I want your guys' opinion on it.

1 game on the lower brackets, semi-finals and higher should be best of 3.

For maps? I'm thinking we should have a single map for people to play on in the early brackets (where it's 1 game to move on), maybe a safe 1v1 map like Blistering Sands or Steppes of War. Basically a map nobody hates. When we do best of 3, we'll cycle between a couple maps.

 

[Pandaman]

will we have to choose and stick to a race[or random]?

 

[TurtleSnatcher]

Im gonna be hella busy in the coming week.. thisll be tough.. :X

 

[ZealousD]

will we have to choose and stick to a race[or random]?

I can't think of a good reason to make people choose. If anybody knows of a good reason to keep people locked into a choice, let me know.

 

[Milabrega]

Just post the bracket and we'll get it done when we get it done. Could arrange to have the semi's, the third place game and the final streamed by someone.

 

[Trasher]

1 game on the lower brackets, semi-finals and higher should be best of 3.

If you want to finish the whole thing by the date you are saying, then it would probably be best to not do a best of three. Just one game elimination all the way to the end. Otherwise you should have it take place over a whole week or something maybe.

 

[Meeru]

Or just make the table now and have people reporting the wins. We are everyday people with lives and jobs, not progamers sadly.

 

[ZealousD]

Just post the bracket and we'll get it done when we get it done. Could arrange to have the semi's, the third place game and the final streamed by someone.

I'm not too averse to the idea. If we do a "do it when you can" style tournament, then double elim seems best. Keep in mind, a 24 person bracket would leave us with 6 people at the end. So we'd have to come up with some sort of system where 2 sets of 3 duke it out for the finals.

Nothing is set is stone yet. If you guys don't like the idea of having people show up at a certain time, speak up. I'm merely offering a suggestion.

 

[Cheeto]

Can we maybe start earlier than 11:30 est? I know we have some west coast people, but 11:30 is pretty much when I goto bed. Maybe if we started closer to 10 I can stay up later to finish it out, but if it starts at 11:30 i'll be up way too late to finish it

Edit: I just saw the new posts, the "do it when we can" would work, but I think it'd also be cool to have people spectating.

 

[Trasher]

I'm not too averse to the idea. If we do a "do it when you can" style tournament, then double elim seems best. Keep in mind, a 24 person bracket would leave us with 6 people at the end. So we'd have to come up with some sort of system where 2 sets of 3 duke it out for the finals.

Nothing is set is stone yet. If you guys don't like the idea of having people show up at a certain time, speak up. I'm merely offering a suggestion.

I don't know if any of you are familiar with the Madden Thread over in the online forum, but those guys just play the games whenever the two people can find a time for both to play the match. I say we do a double elimination format, setup the bracket, and then we can contact our opponents and find a time that works. Then we post the results in the thread when we finish so Zealous can update the bracket.

Btw Zealous, if you want help with updating the bracket or anything like that let me know. I can lend you a hand here and there.

Edit: Obviously you should set a time limit for when your matches need to be completed by. I'd give like a three or four day window per match.

 

[ZealousD]

Or just make the table now and have people reporting the wins. We are everyday people with lives and jobs, not progamers sadly.

I'm definitely trying to keep this in mind, but at the same time I don't want some sort of eternal drag out. For an example of this happening, check the BlazBlue GAF tournament.

What if we enforce something like a 4 or 5 day rule? If you don't finish your match within the time frame, the player with the highest 1v1 ladder ranking is declared the winner.

I was also thinking of using the 1v1 ladder rank for seeding.

Once we decide the rule set, I can make a thread in the Online forum.

 

[Terproerg]

11:30 est is much too late, i cant usually stay on past 12:30-1 :\/

 

[Pandaman]

I'm not too averse to the idea. If we do a "do it when you can" style tournament, then double elim seems best. Keep in mind, a 24 person bracket would leave us with 6 people at the end. So we'd have to come up with some sort of system where 2 sets of 3 duke it out for the finals.

or just randomly select 8 byes, there are tourney bracket randomizers out there.
for example, i just made this one by copy and pasting your list:
http://i43.tinypic.com/4l398h.png
pthere's an extra space in there so dont use this one obv. ]

 

[ZealousD]

Okay, seems like I'm being overruled for having a set time.

I'll agree to a "do it when you can" structure.

So here's the remaining questions.

Best 2 of 3 for each matchup?

4 Day Rule? I'm thinking person with highest 1v1 ladder rank gets declared winner, but you can't win by default more than once.

Map Rotation? I'm thinking Blistering Sands, Steppes of War, Lost Temple.

Seeding? Seeds based on 1v1 ladder rank.I'm thinking of giving people one week to establish it. Or should we stick to a random number generator?

 

[Hazaro]

A double elim, Bo3, do it eventually but not forever style sounds good to me
Maps are fine too.

Locking in races (or locked Random) imo is best since certain players can be terrible at a mirror matchup and just off race and 6 pool you or something. That would be kind of lame, but this is coming from someone who watched a lot of pro gaming.

Plus you could practice for a day or two against the race of the next player you are up against

*I don't want to play FromtheFuture he can use storm :[ (Also 1st partner)
Storm is imba :lol
** I'd also be up for trying to cast / stream what I can

 

[Pandaman]

i think if we're doing a long term tourney best 2 of 3 is the best, im also okay with the map rotation and 4 day rule but disagree that ladder rank should determine it.

 

[ZealousD]

im also okay with .... 4 day rule but disagree that ladder rank should determine it.

Then what should? I can't think of any other method that seems fair.

 

[Milabrega]

Then what should? I can't think of any other method that seems fair.

Random? Alphabetical? Order we signed up in? Its double elim, its our first 1v1 tourney so seeding doesn't really matter.

 

[ZealousD]

Alphabetical?

Definitely not Alphabetical. Maybe reverse alphabetical? :lol

 

[Trasher]

I hope you guys realize that if we do a best of three format for every single matchup, then this could take months to complete. I like the idea of only doing best out of three for the semis and final game. Seeding should be done randomly IMO. If it was a 2v2 tournament then I would suggest setting up even teams, but not for a 1v1 tourny.

This is also the first one we are doing, so lets not make it too complicated. We can work out the kinks in other tournaments if we feel there is anything that needs to be changed. For now though, lets keep it a bit simpler. Single elimination until the semi finals and the final.

Edit: Nm on the single elimination. Just thought it through a bit more and realized that if you can get together for one game, then you can most likely play at least one more. :lol

For some reason I was thinking you would have to meet up on a different day to play another game.

 

[ZealousD]

I hope you guys realize that if we do a best of three format for every single matchup, then this could take months to complete.

Not if we're enforcing something like a 4 day rule.

 

[Milabrega]

I like the whole Best of 3 for each round thing. It'll suck for people who let themselves get proxied or 6 pool'd in match 1 if that's the only match. Plus some people are stronger on some maps then others.

 

[Trasher]

Not if we're enforcing something like a 4 day rule.

Yeah yeah, disregard that post. Didn't think it through completely there haha.

Best of three should be a must. I'm all for it.

I still standby the random seeding idea though. Maybe we can base the next tournament's seeds on how well everyone does in this tourny.

 

[Hazaro]

Just to clarify this is a double elimination bracket. I am for this. More Starcraft is always better, plus if you don't do so hot in a critical game or match you can still come back.

Like Panda said you can print / fill out your own online.

 

[-COOLIO-]

i dont know if this is a popular strat in the beta but i just did a game in i think 'kulas ravine' where i lifted my main off to a high yield at the very start. i think it helped and either way i won. i would of saved the replay if i knew how.

 

[Hazaro]

i dont know if this is a popular strat in the beta but i just did a game in i think 'kulas ravine' where i lifted my main off to a high yield at the very start. i think it helped and either way i won. i would of saved the replay if i knew how.

It auto saves every replay in "C:\Documents and Settings\Admin\My Documents\StarCraft II Beta\Replays\Recent"

And I've seen it used before. Semi viable imo, but you have high ground next to you base, 2 entrances, and everything is close together. You have to press the advantage on the fact your opponent doesn't know where you are.

The main issues are that you mine out faster when saturated, but the income is the same (6 minerals patches vs 8).

 

[ZealousD]

Here's an idea on determining winner after 4 days.

At the start of a round, I'll ask players to "check in" by posting in the tournament thread. Basically, confirm that they've seen the bracket and that they'll actively try and work out a time with their opponent.

If the 4 day limit hits, and only 1 of the players in the matchup has checked in, the player that checked in is declared the winner. If both or neither player checks in, winner is determined by coin toss.

You also can't win by default twice in this manner. Example: In the second round, a match doesn't happen. One player won a game by coin toss, other player won a game fair and square. Player that played a game before is declared winner.

 

[Hazaro]

Here's an idea on determining winner after 4 days.

At the start of a round, I'll ask players to "check in" by posting in the tournament thread. Basically, confirm that they've seen the bracket and that they'll actively try and work out a time with their opponent.

If the 4 day limit hits, and only 1 of the players in the matchup has checked in, the player that checked in is declared the winner. If both or neither player checks in, winner is determined by coin toss. You also can't win by default twice in this manner. Example: In second round, a match doesn't happen. One player won a game by default, other player won a game fair and square. Player that played a game before is declared winner.

Maybe a check in and confirm?
Check-in to know their match up and opponent, then check in again at the dead line?
Or too confusing?

 

[JWong]

Had good noobie games tonight. 8P

 

[ZealousD]

Maybe a check in and confirm?
Check-in to know their match up and opponent, then check in again at the dead line?
Or too confusing?

Having a check in at the deadline seems like it would delay the next round by a day or two.

 

[Trasher]

Having a check in at the deadline seems like it would delay the next round by a day or two.

Yeah, just a check-in for once the bracket comes out, and then for each new round the person makes it to. Then they post the results of the match anytime in those four days.

 

[Meeru]

Anyone wanting to play?

 

[surazal]

i dont know if this is a popular strat in the beta but i just did a game in i think 'kulas ravine' where i lifted my main off to a high yield at the very start. i think it helped and either way i won. i would of saved the replay if i knew how.

It was mentioned on the Teamliquid forum. The consensus is that since the gold mineral only have 6 patches compared to the 8 patches at your main, there is no benefit.

 

[-COOLIO-]

It was mentioned on the Teamliquid forum. The consensus is that since the gold mineral only have 6 patches compared to the 8 patches at your main, there is no benefit.

i just did the math in my head and realized this.

8x5 vs 6x7. you make a 2 mineral profit per full scv run though.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

I just got photon cannon rushed. T_T

 

[Trasher]

i just did the math in my head and realized this.

8x5 vs 6x7. you make a 2 mineral profit per full scv run though.

Gotta also factor in how many SCVS you have too. Would be 16 on the regular minerals, and 12 on the gold minerals.

 

[ZealousD]

Just did a quick number crunch. 4 day rule on a double elimin tournament with 24 players makes the tournament last just over a full month. 32 days. Kinda long.

3 day rule would make that 24 days, little more manageable.