NemesisPrime
Banned
ZealousD said:
Well I guess it is settled then. You can explain away any bad game design decision like that.
I just found it very hard to play after DoW2. I am a huge SC1 fan... but the beta has not impressed me.
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StarCraft 2 Beta |OT| (Beta Now Reopen, GL HF)
- Thread starter Scrow
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Well I guess it is settled then. You can explain away any bad game design decision like that.
I just found it very hard to play after DoW2. I am a huge SC1 fan... but the beta has not impressed me.
MeshuggahMan
Member
I don't understand why people expect a completely different style of starcraft for starcraft 2.
Well, changing Starcraft's core gameplay to bring it in line with current trends in the RTS genre would do two things:NemesisPrime said:
1) Alienate a good portion of users who simply want next gen SC1 (See: South Korea)
2) Present an entirely new game to balance all over again, which may not necessarily be more successful than just using an already successful formula
There's a big reason SC1 is still popular today and it's because the gameplay is good. Other RTSes go in and out of fashion but SC1 has staying power. I don't think it's a bad game design decision to keep what works.
Although I do think a lot of stuff can be implemented to make the technology seem more modern at least. This I'll attribute to players potentially bitching about the "skill" required to play the game at a high level.
Does anyone have a good link to the controls? I can't find any place to change them in the menu, and since I haven't played Starcraft since 7th grade or something I really don't remember the controls at all. Starcraft 2 seems nice but I'd like to get the controls printed out.
Hotkeys are shown in the little windows, most of them make sense. (Buildings)Amir0x said:
Units are usually first letter of their name (Or for Terran, e, a, m, d) since you'll be spamming marines and mards the whole game.
Besides hotkeys there isn't much besides:
Ctrl + # for a group
'a' + click or 'ctrl' + click to attack-move
Right click to move (you will not engage)
Double click or ctrl + click to select all units / buildings of a specific type.
Shift to select of deselect individual units.
Holding shift while assigning actions will queue them, e.g. move along this path, or build another pylon after this one.
The Lamonster
Member
It's actually control click, not shift click, right guys?Hazaro said:
NemesisPrime said:
That's not what I'm trying to do. You can't explain anything away just by saying it's a different game. I'm saying that because Starcraft 2 doesn't contain any bad game design decisions. Like I said, everything it does it does for a reason.
And if you were a huge SC1 fan, you wouldn't be complaining.
You say bad, but can you back it up?NemesisPrime said:
A lot of people harp on Blizzard for not adopting UI or gameplay mechanics from more modern RTS games, and I have to wonder: why should they? What have the recent RTS games accomplished? The genre isn't nearly as dominant as it used to be. If anything, the modern UI and gameplay mechanics have shuffled RTS solidly into b-tier territory.
There was a very similar trend in the fighting game genre, and when SFIV came out Capcom basically ignored most of the stuff that had been added to the genre over the last 10 years, and I think most people applaud that decision.
Outside of non-customizable hotkeys, I don't think there's much in SC2's UI that can be objectively labeled bad or outdated compared to a game like DOW2.
NemesisPrime said:
DoW2's UI is horrible in comparison to any other RTS. It gives you basically 0 information about anything. You can't even select other units in Last Stand to see their stats, and even if you could select them, there wouldn't be much shown judging by the little bit info they give on your own unit.
Draft said:
Exactly. CoH and DoW2 haven't sold crazy numbers bringing in casuals with it's new UI or gameplay. It's progression only in the sense that it's different, in terms of sales and bringing in new gamers, it's regression.
CnC3 sold well, CnC4 is selling poorly. It's not an accident. PC gamers are generally more informed about the games they buy than console gamers.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I'm getting blocked from accessing the beta or my Battle.net account due to not having an authenticator code wtf. Anyone else having this problem? I didn't set up an authenticator
The Lamonster
Member
BSOD hurts so bad when you're in the SCII beta :'(
PhoenixDark
Banned
Yaweee said:
fffu
I just changed my password, as advised on the Blizzard site. Checked my WoW character on the armory and it hasn't been changed since I last played (April 7th), and talked to my guild leader who said he hasn't noticed anything either. The lines are busy so I sent an email.
Hm, I can't think of any recent actions I've taken that could expose myself to a keylogger. I'll run a scan. I was playing the beta around 4am this morning with no problems.
NemesisPrime
Banned
aznpxdd said:
Nope... I have played this game before... it was called StarCraft. I expected a lot more from version 2 I guess. The limited viewfield really annoys me atm. I can't believe we used to play like that. I can live with the bad animations... at least the non-game UI is great and the sound is awesome.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
fanboi said:
No bunkers. None needed since I wasn't caring about my base. I was going to have a quick marine rush and i succeeded 99% of the way, except that I forgot that the map has a fucking remote Island.
Hazaro said:
Ortibal Command did show up but pretty damn late into the game. I'll post the rep when I get home! I actually want to see the replay at how he survived it. I send in one of my useless Starports into his base to see how quickly it blows up incase I wanna send in my units and... sigh...
I actually wanted to quit the game as soon as I spotted his Starports and loads of missle turrets.
maniac-kun
Member
bnet2 is down here in europe. is it patch 9 time? 4v4 and 3v3 and stuff? (maybe lurkers? )
: its up again :/
): its up again :/
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
seems like they are slowly removing the bonuses.Milabrega said:
Not that I know of.Jokey665 said:
That would limit units and balance so... no.Milabrega said:
SC 1 had it, but everything was damage reduction that you couldn't see. :lol
I get my OC on 14-16 supply almost every game.shagg_187 said:Ortibal Command did show up but pretty damn late into the game. I'll post the rep when I get home! I actually want to see the replay at how he survived it. I send in one of my useless Starports into his base to see how quickly it blows up incase I wanna send in my units and... sigh...
I actually wanted to quit the game as soon as I spotted his Starports and loads of missle turrets.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
NemesisPrime said:
What "bad game designs" are you talking about? I'd love to see a well thought out explanation as to why you think these are "bad game designs" and your preferred remedies, and remember make the critique objective as opposed to subjective.
Also, try not to reference other games design choices unless you're fully aware of all externalities that might occur.
For example your decision to call it a 'limited view field' doesn't make sense in context. That would be like saying all other FPS games that don't share the halo, lower of center, reticule placement is a 'limited view field'. These types of design choices directly effect the way a game plays, so I don't see how you can label it as limited.
NovemberMike
Member
Jokey665 said:
Ghosts have a psionic shot that only hits them.
Minsc
Gold Member
Zzoram said:
I think his big gripe is it doesn't have Supreme Commander style zooming, where you can zoom out to the whole battlefield at once and issue commands on basically a mini-map scaled to your PCs monitor.
But seriously, it sounds like he just doesn't like the fact StarCraft 2 is StarCraft+. It's not an uncommon opinion, just an unpopular one, proven so by the game's sales in comparison to every other RTS on the market.
I'd go so far to say that StarCraft 2 will outsell every other PC RTS game released within 3 years of it, combined. And since StarCraft 2 will count as three separate games, I'm fairly confident I have no chance of losing!
Procarbine
Forever Platinum
What do you detractors mean when you say "poor UI", "bad animations", and "limited view field"?
The UI is simple and streamlined, playing SC1, WC3, and then moving to SC2 was completely natural. SC2 gives the nice addition of displaying your control groups. I used to play DoW as well, but the sheer scale of Starcraft makes that UI design impossible and impractical.
Bad animations? The animations are, just as the UI, simple and streamlined. When one unit kills another I don't want to see a 5 second sequence of a Space Marine hacking an Eldar to pieces with his chainsword, I want the other unit to die and mine to start killing another unit right away. Starcraft isn't designed to be slow and pretty, although SC2 is very pretty in my opinion, it's designed to be fast and competitive. Seeing units erupt in ash when killed by fire or dissolve in acid is nice enough to get the point across. Honestly when it comes down to it, if you're sitting there watching the animations you're falling behind.
I suppose limited view is a matter of opinion, but this never even crossed my mind and this is honestly the first i've ever seen it mentioned.
The UI is simple and streamlined, playing SC1, WC3, and then moving to SC2 was completely natural. SC2 gives the nice addition of displaying your control groups. I used to play DoW as well, but the sheer scale of Starcraft makes that UI design impossible and impractical.
Bad animations? The animations are, just as the UI, simple and streamlined. When one unit kills another I don't want to see a 5 second sequence of a Space Marine hacking an Eldar to pieces with his chainsword, I want the other unit to die and mine to start killing another unit right away. Starcraft isn't designed to be slow and pretty, although SC2 is very pretty in my opinion, it's designed to be fast and competitive. Seeing units erupt in ash when killed by fire or dissolve in acid is nice enough to get the point across. Honestly when it comes down to it, if you're sitting there watching the animations you're falling behind.
I suppose limited view is a matter of opinion, but this never even crossed my mind and this is honestly the first i've ever seen it mentioned.
Some units will auto engage because the AI is wonky occasionally.
Just spam right click like you said.
Also PATCH TIME
Gretorp's stream went down (1700 rank Plat #1) and EU is also down.
Can't wait.
*I'm guessing Forcefield nerf, reaper nerf, immortal nerf, maybe a weird zerg buff.
**Limited view is something that is specifically intended. In an interview someone mentioned that the harsh time management of SC related into the restricted view so you can only do so much at a given time. They don't expect to change the view point. Probably helps some older machines as well.
Just spam right click like you said.
Also PATCH TIME
Gretorp's stream went down (1700 rank Plat #1) and EU is also down.
Can't wait.
*I'm guessing Forcefield nerf, reaper nerf, immortal nerf, maybe a weird zerg buff.
**Limited view is something that is specifically intended. In an interview someone mentioned that the harsh time management of SC related into the restricted view so you can only do so much at a given time. They don't expect to change the view point. Probably helps some older machines as well.
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
cant sign in too, so i guess soTrasher said:
Procarbine
Forever Platinum
Trasher said:
I can't log in, seems to be down.