Procarbine said:
Statements made about delaying queens and whatnot is wrong, I build my first queen as soon as the pool finishes, she comes out at 4:00.
Of course I don't do this all the time, I either scout at 10 or 13 (as I throw down the spawning pool) if I feel like anything cheesy is going on, I won't expand but otherwise I will. You probably underestimate how easy it is for zerglings and queens to defend expansions and how quickly zerg can rebuild. It takes pretty much an all-in attack or a cheese to beat my expansion, disregarding reaper nonsense. My first zerglings come out 4:35-4:40, and based on what I scout I can just pump straight lings or spend a little more on eco before going. Either way, the additional queen/hatch + eco overrides anything I give up early on.
I'm sure you've watched lots of gameplay, and nearly every high level zerg you see takes a very fast expansion.
I never really said anything about delaying queen though. When you said you expanded before pool was done, the point there is that you havent even been able to begin producing a queen and she takes a good chunk of time. You also couldnt have started zerglings then either.
Early expanding is fine but the pool should be top priority precisely because it allows you your first possible defensive units. In your example, you will have spent at a bare minimum your first 500 minerals on a pool and a hatchery, and then that would have only been minimum if you had 6 gatherers, at which point youve spent the first 4 minutes or more only gathering with 6 then 5 then 4 workers. If you built them with bought drones then youll have spent 600 minerals and have had only 6 workers after building the two buildings gathering. If you even consider building an extractor you're down to 5.
So then let's say you built more workers and an overlord at 10. Well now you're up to 600 for the buildings and by ten workers that'll be an extra 200 minerals and the overlord is 100. At that point you'll either build more workers or save up money to wait for the pool to be done but regardless if you decide to gather at a ten worker rate and dont want to be supply blocked youll have spent a grand total of 900 (+75 if you have an extractor) before you have built any defensive units whatsoever if you built as you said, a hatchery before pool was done.
I'm getting way too involved with this but suffice it to say my point is that if you try to expand that quickly you are as vulnerable early game as any race could probably be. Compound that by the fact that zerg has to mix worker production with defensive production and you're even more vulnerable.
It's a moot point if you think you have successfully defended against early rushes building like that. So you killed some reaper rushes maybe? Well the guy probably wasnt controlling the reaper well. A good player will 95% of the time he's sniping your stuff with one reaper not even be touched because they can outrun non-speedlings and besides you have none then anyway. Sure a queen is good defense, but expanding before pool is done, the pool isnt done and by the time you even get a queen out he will likely have 3 or more reapers who can kill her anyway with enough micro, and by that time he's justified the reaper cost by sniping likely 2 or 3 drones per reaper or even almost destroyed your spawning pool and now it's GG.
Again let me state for the record this is only in my limited experience, have you seen any top players successfully defend against early rush an expansion that's taken before spawning pool is done? How did they accomplish this? Did the terran hilariously get his quick reaper raped by a zergling or two?