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StarCraft 2 Beta |OT| (Beta Now Reopen, GL HF)
- Thread starter Scrow
- Start date
MisterAnderson
Member
I've been working on my 2v2/1v1 map "Lotus Prime" tirelessly. It's finally almost done. I've spent WAY too much time doing texture work. My anal self wanted to not make the textures symmetrical across the entire level, so I actually textured the whole thing by hand. Hopefully it will come through as a polished level as a result. At least I learned some neat texturing tricks in the process though so I'm glad that I did. I think the evolution of this map is kind of neat, so I'll post the links to the older versions so you can see the process it has went through.
Version 1:
http://i41.tinypic.com/2u8hx04.jpg
Version 2:
http://i40.tinypic.com/2v2jxtw.jpg
Version 3:
http://i41.tinypic.com/16icidz.jpg
Current:
Like I said, I've spent way too much time on this level :lol Hopefully it ends up being fun to play. Through my tests with the (shitty) AI it feels like it will be a good map, but won't know for sure until I test it out with humans (COME ON BLIZZARD).
Version 1:
http://i41.tinypic.com/2u8hx04.jpg
Version 2:
http://i40.tinypic.com/2v2jxtw.jpg
Version 3:
http://i41.tinypic.com/16icidz.jpg
Current:
Like I said, I've spent way too much time on this level :lol Hopefully it ends up being fun to play. Through my tests with the (shitty) AI it feels like it will be a good map, but won't know for sure until I test it out with humans (COME ON BLIZZARD).
Nice work MisterAnderson, looks interesting and fair. I dont know much about map design, so take this suggestion with a grain of salt. I would add one more mineral vein in the starting expansion, that is if the 4 corners are all starting off locations.MisterAnderson said:I've been working on my 2v2/1v1 map "Lotus Prime" tirelessly. It's finally almost done. I've spent WAY too much time doing texture work. My anal self wanted to not make the textures symmetrical across the entire level, so I actually textured the whole thing by hand. Hopefully it will come through as a polished level as a result. At least I learned some neat texturing tricks in the process though so I'm glad that I did. I think the evolution of this map is kind of neat, so I'll post the links to the older versions so you can see the process it has went through.
Version 1:
http://i41.tinypic.com/2u8hx04.jpg
Version 2:
http://i40.tinypic.com/2v2jxtw.jpg
Version 3:
http://i41.tinypic.com/16icidz.jpg
Current:
Like I said, I've spent way too much time on this level :lol Hopefully it ends up being fun to play. Through my tests with the (shitty) AI it feels like it will be a good map, but won't know for sure until I test it out (COME ON BLIZZARD).
MisterAnderson
Member
rhfb said:
Reapers actually are going to be quite useful on this map. There's a lot of areas separated by cliffs (like the island expansions for example) that are still accessible via cliff walking/cliff jumping units like Reapers.
And I didn't want them to be too useful, so I didn't have direct access to the main's mineral line but gave them two options to try, but if you make it up you still have a bit of distance to travel before you get to the mineral line. Here's an image representing those two options to get into the main. The X's in the picture represent an area that is slightly separated by space, so Reapers can't jump directly down from that ledge. I just specified that because I don't think it's very obvious from that angle. Also if you notice onthe bottom part of the base, with a little bit of microing with their jump jets you could jump back down on that lower ledge and jump back up to more safely creep up to the mineral line.
Yeah it is the norm, but it is one way to help set this map apart a little. It seems most maps are fairly generic when it comes to resources and follow exactly the same pattern. I know it is what people are used to, but half the fun for me is trying maps that require me to adjust strategies used for old maps. Maybe Im in the minority, but I hope more maps try new things.rhfb said:
thestopsign
Member
valenti said:
I would play with you guys but a.) I suck compared to the level that you guys are playing at and b.) I have a paper to write right now
Procarbine
Forever Platinum
Come on US!
My last two ladder's have been 30 minute ZvZ, first one was back and for roach/hydra, second was back and forth muta/ling. I lost both because of my inability to defend expansions =\ Hung in this last one for a long time because I owned him in micro, but ultimately his 3rd base gave him the ability to build a larger ling/baneling force, which wrecked mine.
My last two ladder's have been 30 minute ZvZ, first one was back and for roach/hydra, second was back and forth muta/ling. I lost both because of my inability to defend expansions =\ Hung in this last one for a long time because I owned him in micro, but ultimately his 3rd base gave him the ability to build a larger ling/baneling force, which wrecked mine.
PillowKnight
Member
pillow.pillow , im still terrible though.
The Lamonster
Member
I want to spectate GAF games!!
Lamonster.zone
Lamonster.zone
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
valenti said:
I have three essays due in this week and next week then I have finals week. I have no idea how much SC2 Ill be able to get in for awhile
..../tear
instro.instro
Anyway, this game seems to have some issues. Ive gotten a couple BSOD's since I started playing yesterday. Probably a memory leak. Doubt its overheating but I cleaned out my case just to make sure, it was getting up in the 90's before now its holding in the mid 80's or less while playing so we'll see how it goes.
Anyway, this game seems to have some issues. Ive gotten a couple BSOD's since I started playing yesterday. Probably a memory leak. Doubt its overheating but I cleaned out my case just to make sure, it was getting up in the 90's before now its holding in the mid 80's or less while playing so we'll see how it goes.
Feel sooooo good. Just finished an "epic" 50 minuet base race 2v2 on Twilight Fortress :lol
My team would have won around the 25 minuet mark if I would have attacked with my teammate instead of trying to do things my own way. Ended up winning eventually though, just took forever due to low worker numbers, diminishing resources, ect. Other dudes were pissed off because they had basically been dead for 20+ minuets, just running around with a 80ish unit count each army destroying stuff as they found it.
My team would have won around the 25 minuet mark if I would have attacked with my teammate instead of trying to do things my own way. Ended up winning eventually though, just took forever due to low worker numbers, diminishing resources, ect. Other dudes were pissed off because they had basically been dead for 20+ minuets, just running around with a 80ish unit count each army destroying stuff as they found it.
NovemberMike
Member
November.mike
Pretty fairly in gold league
Pretty fairly in gold league
Str0ngStyle
Member
I dunno what that is. Please enlighten me?snack said:
Tony Rocky Horror
Member
Haha look at you, mr Allstar starcraft player all of a suddenMr Cola said:ffa with rainy, msv, and knives i came 2nd first
thats my story and im sticking with it
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3dNQbYWZ80Str0ngStyle said:
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
Alright GAF: something I just introduced to a friend on gchat
Edit: Sorry about inital formating, I just copy-pasted from Gchat. Fixed now
The biggest problem with SC2 is that it has become what I would call a "twitch-RTS"
Just like Unreal Tournament is a "twitch-FPS", reaction time and sheer speed of deployment has replaced creativity and strategy. The main problem lies in the imbalance that exists within each race between the so called "tiers". The first tier has become the single requirement for success for 2 of the 3 races, with following tiers unnecessary due to cost, time, and overall ineffectiveness.
In chess, the pawns don't dominate a game. They serve as "introductory" pieces that always exist yet don't do much to sway the game
There's a reason a pawn can't leap over the rest of the units and capture the King in the first 3 moves. There needs to be incentive to progress to the later tiers of units and naturally lengthen the game.
Thus, I propose the problem isn't with Tier 2 being too weak (although that is a legitimate concern). The problem lies with the fact that Tier 1 units are too strong to begin with and have no potential to grow.
In SC1, Tier 1 units could never easily decimate a base with a basic, competent defensive setup or a decent amount of units/builders. There existed natural methods of defense that gave the advantage to the defender. Whereas you could always harass, you could rarely end the game without first building a Factory/Lair/Stargate .However, the Tier 1 units progressively got stronger as Tier 2/3 rolled out of production: Zerglings had the speedling/crackling upgrade, Zealots had foot speed, Marines had range/stim-packs
Along with that, damage upgrades at Engineering Bays/Evolution Chambers/Forges helped keep Tier 1 relevant as the game progress. They weren't the lynchpin unit, but they proved good distraction forces or helped round-out a diverse force.
In SC2, there is no reason to move beyond Tier 1. If you attack soon enough with Marauders, you don't have to fear their inability to counter air
Stalkers are more agile Dragoons, with decent power and the ability to bypass most defenses: Mutalisks, while useful on paper, are simply too expensive when compared to, Zerglings/Banelings and thus not eligible for deployment, Zerg has the only real carrot to move into Tier 2 with Hyrdalisks, but even then there is too much of a Vespene cost.
In addition, Tier 1 units, especially for Terran, are proportionally better than most other sheer-offensive units. You have no real control over whether or not you move into Tier 2, since pressure put on by Tier 1 units will conquer any attempt to "tech" every single time
Instead, you are simply regulated to mass Tier 1 units quicker than the other player, which not only removes the creative aspect of the game but also puts some races at a disadvantage.
Overall, making Tier 1 units weaker, while providing either greater means or incentive to reach Tier 2 and 3, will hopefully improve the game's overall satisfaction level
Edit: Sorry about inital formating, I just copy-pasted from Gchat. Fixed now
The biggest problem with SC2 is that it has become what I would call a "twitch-RTS"
Just like Unreal Tournament is a "twitch-FPS", reaction time and sheer speed of deployment has replaced creativity and strategy. The main problem lies in the imbalance that exists within each race between the so called "tiers". The first tier has become the single requirement for success for 2 of the 3 races, with following tiers unnecessary due to cost, time, and overall ineffectiveness.
In chess, the pawns don't dominate a game. They serve as "introductory" pieces that always exist yet don't do much to sway the game
There's a reason a pawn can't leap over the rest of the units and capture the King in the first 3 moves. There needs to be incentive to progress to the later tiers of units and naturally lengthen the game.
Thus, I propose the problem isn't with Tier 2 being too weak (although that is a legitimate concern). The problem lies with the fact that Tier 1 units are too strong to begin with and have no potential to grow.
In SC1, Tier 1 units could never easily decimate a base with a basic, competent defensive setup or a decent amount of units/builders. There existed natural methods of defense that gave the advantage to the defender. Whereas you could always harass, you could rarely end the game without first building a Factory/Lair/Stargate .However, the Tier 1 units progressively got stronger as Tier 2/3 rolled out of production: Zerglings had the speedling/crackling upgrade, Zealots had foot speed, Marines had range/stim-packs
Along with that, damage upgrades at Engineering Bays/Evolution Chambers/Forges helped keep Tier 1 relevant as the game progress. They weren't the lynchpin unit, but they proved good distraction forces or helped round-out a diverse force.
In SC2, there is no reason to move beyond Tier 1. If you attack soon enough with Marauders, you don't have to fear their inability to counter air
Stalkers are more agile Dragoons, with decent power and the ability to bypass most defenses: Mutalisks, while useful on paper, are simply too expensive when compared to, Zerglings/Banelings and thus not eligible for deployment, Zerg has the only real carrot to move into Tier 2 with Hyrdalisks, but even then there is too much of a Vespene cost.
In addition, Tier 1 units, especially for Terran, are proportionally better than most other sheer-offensive units. You have no real control over whether or not you move into Tier 2, since pressure put on by Tier 1 units will conquer any attempt to "tech" every single time
Instead, you are simply regulated to mass Tier 1 units quicker than the other player, which not only removes the creative aspect of the game but also puts some races at a disadvantage.
Overall, making Tier 1 units weaker, while providing either greater means or incentive to reach Tier 2 and 3, will hopefully improve the game's overall satisfaction level
^ that was very very bad formating and very very very hard to read
1) Comparing to chess... no no no no NO.
2) T1 units is the backbone in your army, but the higher tier units is the one that shift the favors of winning the battle.
Example: You have hydra/lings/roaches... he comes with marauders and seige tanks... then in the back you have Brood Lords... they destroy everything.
in all games I have played its have been a must to move to T2-T3.
1) Comparing to chess... no no no no NO.
2) T1 units is the backbone in your army, but the higher tier units is the one that shift the favors of winning the battle.
Example: You have hydra/lings/roaches... he comes with marauders and seige tanks... then in the back you have Brood Lords... they destroy everything.
in all games I have played its have been a must to move to T2-T3.
Looking for 1v1 PvT advice... I still lose the majority of my matches 1v1 against Terran to early pushes. I almost always build for an early stalker to prevent an early reaper (which just about always appears), and then I get raped by mass marauders before I can get colossi up.
Not having much of a problem against Zerg or Protoss players, but when I see Terran as my opponent, I sigh. Any advice?
Not having much of a problem against Zerg or Protoss players, but when I see Terran as my opponent, I sigh. Any advice?
fanboi said:
In all the games I've played, massing Marauders or Stalker is really all you need. If you put adequate pressure on the opponent, you can either cripple their economy or force them to counter your Marauders with Tier 1. They will never have an opportunity to get to air, so you don't have to worry about that. Siege Tanks are a waste of time, and there is no way a Terran player will ever let you get Brood Lords.
ahoyhoy said:
I have a replay for you! me vs Won where I as a zerg player is having map control and keep a contain for him (he is terran), and shift the battle when I get broods.
And how would a terran stop you from not getting broods when it is end game?
EDIT: Seige tanks waste of time? I don't think so, but I don't play so much as terran... but they are great for keeping one contained etc
Have you tried 5-6 gateways -> warpgates -> stalker spam (with zealots mixed in as well)? Eventually getting immortals/colossi? At least I've had some success with that method (only in silver though, probably wouldn't be too effective in gold/plat) Include a few phoenix units to pick up some marauders and/or deal with air units.LaneDS said:
LaneDS said:
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Protoss and Zerg players are never in a position to advance to Tier 2, especially against Terran, while Terran has no need to with Marines and Marauders at their side.
fanboi said:
Marauders prevent you from ever reaching Tier 2. They put enough pressure on you so early that you can't spare any resources in order to tech up. You get stuck in Tier 1 massing Lings/Banelings while he keeps sending more Marauders at you. Even if you get a Mutalisk out, a few marines make short work of it.
Edit: Here's my rant on Marauders:
Marauders are an overall excellent unit that not only dominate Tier 1 ground-based forces, they control the fate of the game and ensure that even the best-laid defense is of no consequence. While they are indeed vulnerable to air, most games will come to an end at the hand of Marauders before that issue even comes into play. Thus, my proposed solution will limit the Marauder effectiveness in the short term while hopefully keeping them somewhat more relevant in the long-term.
First, if Marauder is indeed a "anti-armor" unit, then naturally they should do less damage against light units while doing a significantly greater amount of damage to armored units. While Marines should be dominating the ground range for Terran and be the best jack-of-all-trades in Tier 1, they are instantly usurped by their older brother, who does an almost equal amount of damage against light at the same mineral cost, yet has over double the amount of health. My solution calls for a reduction of the Marauder "normal" damage to 6, while increasing the bonus damage against armor units to 12. That way, the Marauder can still hold their own against other Tier 1 units (especially with their Concussive Shells), while still able to pose a threat to Tier 1 armored units or Tier 2 ground armor. Zerg and Protoss players will once again have an incentive to build Zerglings and Zealots that can potentially overwhelm a solely Marauder force of equal size, economics-wise.
Secondly, though Marauders are indeed slower than the other Tier 1 Terran units, they're relatively decent speed, with or without stim-packs, pose a significant threat to Tier 2 armored units that rely on range, specifically the Siege Tank, the Thor, the Roach, the Ultralisk, the Colossus and the Immortal. Against these units, a sizable group of Marauders can move into their range limit (or out of their opponents in the case of the Siege Tank) without much issue. For Tier 2 to be remotely effective against mass Marauders, their speed should be slightly reduced to give these Tier 2 units a chance to dwindle their armor. While Marauders will still prove effective in their role as anti-armor when part of a group complimented by other units, their sheer numbers alone wouldn't stand a chance against Siege-mode Siege Tanks or Immortals with increased shields.
Third, make Marauders a light unit. It is almost laughable that a unit would naturally be adapt at countering itself. Terran players often find themselves massing Marauders to counter the Marauders of their opponent, as they are the only armored unit that happens to be adept against armored units. Making Marauders light, but maintaining their high level of health would not only provide Marines, Zerglings, and Zealots a fighting chance against them, it will also motivate Terran to build something aside from Marauders, such as Reapers, creating a more naturally diverse force.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5a8QVuYTpU
I was watching this cast by Husky and I just lost it when he said, "and this guy is doing some kind of slow motion Queen rush." :lol
Also, love the base in the base. It's funny stuff like this that keeps me coming back to casts.
I was watching this cast by Husky and I just lost it when he said, "and this guy is doing some kind of slow motion Queen rush." :lol
Also, love the base in the base. It's funny stuff like this that keeps me coming back to casts.
ahoyhoy said:
Some of your points I agree, but not that they set the fate of the game... As a zerg player I have much much harder times against prot timing push.
You will be able to reach T2 units quite easily, if you keep the rule (as zerg) one more exp then the opponent.
Also, lets count: Maruder 100/25 cost, so on one maruder you can have 4 lings (with no gas cost) or 1.3 roaches (also remember as a zerg you should have more income per min so you should be able to mass more units).
rhfb said:
Hm, it'd be really hard to have that many gates by the time the marauder push hits me. Generally I'm at 2, maybe 3 gates when I get overrun. But I'll certain try just massing stalkers and seeing how it goes until I can tech up more.
Having to go stalkers immediately against Terran as the only acceptable defense against an early reaper is such crap. There is zero flexibility there.
ahoyhoy said:
That's just stupid. You can easily overwhelm any marauder mass with just pure speedling. Either micro them around the mara-ball, or just run to terrans base when maras start moving. Remember banelings? All zerg tier 2 rape maras too... mutas, hydras and infestors.
And if you can't out-tech terran with zerg, then you aren't controlling the map with your speedlings. You must always mass speedlings...
Did I mention SPEEDLINGS.
lol my birthday.
fanboi said:
I was a heavy Zerg player in SC1, and I've been thinking about switching to Terran only because they do macro much better than Zerg in SC2 for some reason, but that's not the point.
Marauders have an ultimate advantage over Lings and Lots thanks to Concussive shells and the natural supply depot wall. You can't put pressure on them, but they can put pressure on you (and your expansion) if you don't keep up with their output. If you try and fight them in the open, they will kite you into oblivion then eventually march on your base.
ahoyhoy said:
When it is this far in game, you should have:
1 exp, lair and on way T2 building.
Also, don't engage opponent when he is kiting, stay back and keep the map control, set rally points from your hatch to that point so you get more and more units also did I say creep highway?
EDIT: Also, if you have banelings, creep highway and speed upgrade you will force them to retreat it they don't they will be facing a green blob of HOLY FUCKING SHIT
EDIT2: wow! damn, a lot of potential: http://www.youtube.com/huskystarcraft#p/u/1/aB12Gy9zuFs
ChronicleX
Banned
If anyone as Protoss is having problems vs Terrans try rushing Dark Templars and warping them in the back. Most of the time you can take out their entire eco in 1 blow with 2-4 of them.