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[Psy-Phi]

By the time you can build a Raven your SCV line is gone. And that's if you bolt for raven. In which case, regular army toss can destroy you.

Terran's best bet against DT is just blocking off your ramp with a turret for visibility, and a bunker for focal firing point. Then they have to be warped in, by the time 'toss get that, you should have defense enough if you know you're going up against Protoss.

 

[Cru Jones]

All this talk about com sweeps and turrets, and I'm seeing no mention of the Raven.

At this point in the match, they won't have a raven out unless they've scouted and realize you have DTs.

Targets by priority once you are in the base

Turrets
SCV
CC
Starport

My suggestion is to kill turrets, then put a couple on SCV line, one on CC and one on Starport. You should be able to take down that starport before he gets anything out.

 

[Cru Jones]

By the time you can build a Raven your SCV line is gone. And that's if you bolt for raven. In which case, regular army toss can destroy you.

Terran's best bet against DT is just blocking off your ramp. Then they have to be warped in, by the time 'toss get that, you should have defense enough if you know you're going up against Protoss.

You can simply build twilight council and robo facility concurrently if you built early enough gas. It only costs 200 minerals for prism and as protoss, I am usually more constrained by gas than minerals, so 200 minerals isn't going to break the bank for me.

 

[mbmonk]

Seems like this game gives people tools for punishing people who clump up there army.

Protoss has storm
Terran has hunter seeker and EMP
Zerg has ????

I haven't played enough zerg to know.

If you could EMP then Hunter Seeker Missle a protoss player... that we piss them/me off. I really need to split my armies into different control groups.

 

[The Lamonster]

Seems like this game gives people tools for punishing people who clump up there army.

Protoss has storm
Terran has hunter seeker and EMP
Zerg has ????

 

[Corran Horn]

Zerg have the infestor barf...forget the name, to halt the group from moving. I guess you can say Mutas too with splash damage but terran balls can own that if enough marines/aa. Banglings too if positioned right

 

[ChronicleX]

Seems like this game gives people tools for punishing people who clump up there army.

Protoss has storm
Terran has hunter seeker and EMP
Zerg has ????

I haven't played enough zerg to know.

They have some cloud thing that makes it so ranged units cannot attack anything inside it, but ranged units inside can attack things outside (that also does damage too I think.). And ofc they also have them things that explode and take out 1/2 an army in 1 go when placed correctly.

 

[mbmonk]

LMAO. How could I forget the baneling?! That is my favorite zerg unit . Thanks for setting me straight everyone.

Just thought I would post these links to Starcraft shows at TeamLiquid:

Day 9 Daily
Cover all races, strats, amazing show
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=104154

Gretorp
Seems like a Terran specialist. First episode is marine+ghost build
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=123413

Orb Knows Best
I think he is a fairly high level Protoss player. His livestream account was locked down but he started a Ustream account. Just look in the thread for details
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=119564

 

[joelseph]

In opening builds is there a reason people constantly drag boxes over their base and gatherers?

 

[Cheeto]

In opening builds is there a reason people constantly drag boxes over their base and gatherers?

heh, so their apm average is higher... its pointless otherwise

 

[The Lamonster]

heh, so their apm average is higher... its pointless otherwise

uh...


APM average is also pointless.

 

[Corran Horn]

uh...


APM is also average pointless.

Having a good APM doesnt mean you are good, but having a good APM is a useful tool to win games.

Alot of people spam apm at the start to keep their hands/fingers loose.

 

[The Lamonster]

Having a good APM doesnt mean you are good, but having a good APM is a useful tool to win games.

Alot of people spam apm at the start to keep their hands/fingers loose.

So what exactly are they doing? Say you drag a box to highlight workers, and then what?

 

[OptimoPeach]

It becomes an unconscious habit after your 400th or so game in which you spend 3 minutes doing nothing but building workers

 

[ZealousD]

So what exactly are they doing? Say you drag a box to highlight workers, and then what?

Then do it again.

The idea is that being quick with your mouse at the start warms you up so that when higher apm matters in the mid-late game it's easier to get up to that point. Serves no real purpose otherwise.

I've been trying it myself. I'm not sure if it really helps you ramp up your apm later, but I have noticed that the speed and cleanliness of my spam usually gives me notice as to how my overall play will be for the rest of the match. If I notice I'm being sloppy with my spam, my later macro may be a bit sloppy. If my spam is cleaner and fast, then I'll play well.

 

[w3stfa11]

LMAO. How could I forget the baneling?!

I hardly ever see people using the baneling. It's usually not worth it, since speedlings are fairly effective.

 

[Corran Horn]

So what exactly are they doing? Say you drag a box to highlight workers, and then what?

All it does is keep your hands loose, hell before matches often players will type out words over and over and over to keep their hands warm too. Watch high level play in first person view and you will see crazy amount of actions happening in quick response.

 

[Haly]

Com Scan is the reason I never used DTs against Terran.

 

[LaneDS]

Man, people sure get sore when I rush early with zealots after saying "gl hf" at the start of a match (which I do every game).

Does "hf" have some "I won't rush you" connotations in SC that I don't know about?

 

[Corran Horn]

Com Scan is the reason I never used DTs against Terran.

Sometimes thats the reason I rush with DTs against terran, Ill sacrifice 1 DT for a scan while I have 2-3 more sitting off to the site somewhere then wreck havoc, works well against people sometimes.

If they happen to have enough scans, I figured I then at least caused no mules.

 

[Hazaro]

Man, people sure get sore when I rush early with zealots after saying "gl hf" at the start of a match (which I do every game).

Does "hf" have some "I won't rush you" connotations in SC that I don't know about?

:lol I sorta assume that.

It's nice not to be rushed (at lower levels).

Gretorp has a VOD of his mass Ghost strat vs Protoss. Apparently it works really well, but you gotta make marauders/marines still. They're the back up for the ghosts (and after a while other units as well ofc). Everytime you get 125? gas make a ghost, inbetween make rines and rauders.

Check out his latest vod's via TL, his strategy worked pretty well.


www.youtube.com/psystarcraft <--- Zerg player that owns. Watch his casts, he explains his own strategies, should be some good info for you.

I can do a ghost opening pretty well but it feels sort of all in ish, it's not a timing push or anything just throwing all of your units at the P. 1 rax FE is beaten by a good counter timing push from 4 gates, but I think I could improve it.
Obviously these are still sound strategies for many, just that at higher play the timings get picked apart.

I've watched Gretrop stream (and Moo's) so I'll take a look at his vid. Moo is (was) Rank 1 in Division 1 Platnium for a bit with like 1900 points so he knows what he is doing

Sometimes thats the reason I rush with DTs against terran, Ill sacrifice 1 DT for a scan while I have 2-3 more sitting off to the site somewhere then wreck havoc, works well against people sometimes.

If they happen to have enough scans, I figured I then at least caused no mules.

Gotta have turrets as T! Anytime you can find where you seem safe, plop down a few turrets to cover your base. Each observer you kill means less immortal/collosi or denies information. Very important.

 

[LaneDS]

:lol I sorta assume that.

It's nice not to be rushed (at lower levels).

Hah, well I'm playing in 1v1 Gold, I don't think I'm being too cheesy by pushing early on fellow Toss players with some zealots, but maybe I'll just say "GL" at the start of matches. Oh well!

Actually, when they call me a faggot at the end I don't feel very bad at all about any of my tactics, so whatever.

 

[joelseph]

but maybe I'll just say "GL" at the start of matches. Oh well!

How about not saying anything and just playing? =)

 

[OptimoPeach]

I always gl before I cheese

 

[Corran Horn]

Hah, well I'm playing in 1v1 Gold, I don't think I'm being too cheesy by pushing early on fellow Toss players with some zealots, but maybe I'll just say "GL" at the start of matches. Oh well!

Actually, when they call me a faggot at the end I don't feel very bad at all about any of my tactics, so whatever.

I only GL. If your not having fun stop playing the game! :lol

I cheese alot lately because I been bored. My 2v2s lately have been doing stupid stuff

 

[msv]

I can do a ghost opening pretty well but it feels sort of all in ish, it's not a timing push or anything just throwing all of your units at the P. 1 rax FE is beaten by a good counter timing push from 4 gates, but I think I could improve it.

The ghost strat Gretorp was talking about isn't supposed to be an all-in. He's actually talking about an all-game strat. Sure you should get ghosts relatively quick, but I don't think you should go all in on them. Just keep producing ghost just as you mass MM.

The examples Gretorp showed weren't that great (he actually didn't know that blink doesn't work on energy but on a cooldown :lol ), but they did work. He seemed really confident about that strat vs protoss. But he explains the build in great detail; So maybe the higher level players here can comment on it ( I'm a bronze noob ).

 

[watervengeance]

DTs are pretty expensive in the beginning unless you know it's going to be hurting them a lot. It's amazing in the end game when the opponent least expects it. You can send a bunch of DTs in their base while you attack them with your army. If they focus on the battle, then your DTs will wreck their base. If they focus on the DTs, they'll probably retreat their army allowing you to get some free kills. Even better if they use scans on your DTs.

 

[watervengeance]

The ghost strat Gretorp was talking about isn't supposed to be an all-in. He's actually talking about an all-game strat. Sure you should get ghosts relatively quick, but I don't think you should go all in on them. Just keep producing ghost just as you mass MM.

The examples Gretorp showed weren't that great (he actually didn't know that blink doesn't work on energy but on a cooldown :lol ), but they did work. He seemed really confident about that strat vs protoss. But he explains the build in great detail; So maybe the higher level players here can comment on it ( I'm a bronze noob ).

I have a feeling they're going to make Blink require energy soon. I mean, they gotta find someway to nerf protoss every patch after all. :lol

 

[Pai Pai Master]

This is way less stable than before. What the heck happened with the latest patch? 1/2 my games crash in the first few minutes, and it takes me forever to be able to create or join a game because of random bugs.

 

[LaneDS]

How about not saying anything and just playing? =)

Hah, I try to be nice and friendly on B.net to counter all the not so nice, not so friendly people. But apparently being nice and putting early pressure on my opponents don't mix. Oh well!

Just played my first game as Zerg in FFA and it was pretty embarrassing (came in 2nd out of four, but it was ugly as sin).

With the queen, do you need to constantly keep an eye on it and hit V to do that spawn larvae thing? I wasn't quite sure what I was doing there.

 

[btkadams]

i suck at this i seem to never have that many guys but i get swarmed by the other team who has like 30 so early in the game. ill havve like 5 at that point. i try and build 3/4 of the possible buildings and upgrade attacks/armor rught when i start building guys. what should i change? should i just build a barracks (or other race equivalent and build 30 guys before i bother upgrading attacks or building all the buildings?

DTs are pretty expensive in the beginning unless you know it's going to be hurting them a lot. It's amazing in the end game when the opponent least expects it. You can send a bunch of DTs in their base while you attack them with your army. If they focus on the battle, then your DTs will wreck their base. If they focus on the DTs, they'll probably retreat their army allowing you to get some free kills. Even better if they use scans on your DTs.

whats a dt?

and whats apm average? apm?

 

[watervengeance]

i suck at this i seem to never have that many guys but i get swarmed by the other team who has like 30 so early in the game. ill havve like 5 at that point. i try and build 3/4 of the possible buildings and upgrade attacks/armor rught when i start building guys. what should i change? should i just build a barracks (or other race equivalent and build 30 guys before i bother upgrading attacks or building all the buildings?

whats a dt?

and whats apm average? apm?

You shouldn't be upgrading so fast. There's not much point to upgrade your unit when you don't even have an army yet. When you do this, you're wasting money that could be spent on producing more units.

Also, walling off as a Terran is pretty essential. (Meaning you place your buildings near a ramp or choke (small pathway) so that enemy units can't just run into your base)

If you have extra money, build more barracks.

DT = Dark Templar (cloaking unit for Protoss)
APM = Actions Per Minute (exactly what it sounds like)

 

[Corran Horn]

Installed and played a game against AI on my netbook. Holy shit never play it again on that :lol

 

[btkadams]

You shouldn't be upgrading so fast. There's not much point to upgrade your unit when you don't even have an army yet. When you do this, you're wasting money that could be spent on producing more units.

Also, walling off as a Terran is pretty essential. (Meaning you place your buildings near a ramp or choke (small pathway) so that enemy units can't just run into your base)

If you have extra money, build more barracks.

DT = Dark Templar (cloaking unit for Protoss)
APM = Actions Per Minute (exactly what it sounds like)

thanks!

 

[Instro]

Finally won my first match earlier, 1 out of 5 in my placements so Im a copper league now. Im quite proud of myself, I held off the initial zergling rushes with a couple hellions and reapers and then massed vikings to wipe him out.

I really like the viking unit in general, being able go from land to air is fantastic.

 

[Yaweee]

DTs are pretty expensive in the beginning unless you know it's going to be hurting them a lot. It's amazing in the end game when the opponent least expects it. You can send a bunch of DTs in their base while you attack them with your army. If they focus on the battle, then your DTs will wreck their base. If they focus on the DTs, they'll probably retreat their army allowing you to get some free kills. Even better if they use scans on your DTs.

I agree with that. I think most of the posters here are underestimating how severely gas-constrained Protoss are, even with relatively 6x on the Assimilators. Getting any T2.5 units before the MM push is going to be difficult, and investing in two T2 branches (as people are suggesting for getting DTs and Warp Prisms) is basically suicide, since all you'll be able afford are Stalkers and Zealots, both of which are essentially counter either Marines or Marauders. The mandatory investment in Sentries drastically slows down Protoss Tech.

DT rushing works well in Silver and early Gold leagues, but better players will either scout out your tech buildings or be able to figure out something is up when you have a small army or when filled with worthless zealots. Range-upgraded Collosi have always been my best bet against MMM, with Warp Gated sentries playing defense until then.

 

[mcrae]

With the queen, do you need to constantly keep an eye on it and hit V to do that spawn larvae thing? I wasn't quite sure what I was doing there.

if you look at the hatchery, there are bars on the top, one of them is for the progression of how soon the extra larvae will pop, one of them is for how soon it will turn into a lair. they dont exist if you dont have it selected/arent researching lair/havent used the spawn larvae ability. you can't re-use the ability untill the larvae are fully spawned.

 

[PhoenixDark]

One time a terran player flooded my base with marines in a counter attack and said "gg." I exploded my burrowed banelings and decimated his entire army. He quit the game a few minutes later :lol

 

[Cru Jones]

LOL, a replay of the above would be epic

 

[Hazaro]

The ghost strat Gretorp was talking about isn't supposed to be an all-in. He's actually talking about an all-game strat. Sure you should get ghosts relatively quick, but I don't think you should go all in on them. Just keep producing ghost just as you mass MM.

The examples Gretorp showed weren't that great (he actually didn't know that blink doesn't work on energy but on a cooldown :lol ), but they did work. He seemed really confident about that strat vs protoss. But he explains the build in great detail; So maybe the higher level players here can comment on it ( I'm a bronze noob ).

In short he is saying that a marine/ghost heavy army has the DPS vs light (sentry/zealot) early game and since stalker do shit vs marines of equal numbers (and the few mards you have slow them to finish them off) you get a good army survivability early game which helps you late game.

I dig it. You still have the problem of collosi / storm but at least now you have a core set of ghosts you don't have to build again (+ they will have energy).

i suck at this i seem to never have that many guys but i get swarmed by the other team who has like 30 so early in the game. ill havve like 5 at that point. i try and build 3/4 of the possible buildings and upgrade attacks/armor rught when i start building guys. what should i change? should i just build a barracks (or other race equivalent and build 30 guys before i bother upgrading attacks or building all the buildings?

whats a dt?

and whats apm average? apm?

Find a build order and try to follow it.
Make buildings, make workers (near constantly), make units (near constantly), if you have too much money spend it on more builds / more units.
If you are a low level player the most important thing you can do is just to build units, build units, build units.

 

[Swag]

Got my code for pre ordering off gamestop, but wtf at it saying EU / RU when I bought from the US Gamestop store :lol

 

[MisterAnderson]

Does anyone know how to get the "heat haze" effect on lava maps in the map editor? Something like this:

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/_...rLavaEruption.Jpg/800px-AfterLavaEruption.Jpg

Pretty sure Incineration Zone has something (not as drastic) as that.

 

[mbmonk]

In short he is saying that a marine/ghost heavy army has the DPS vs light (sentry/zealot) early game and since stalker do shit vs marines of equal numbers (and the few mards you have slow them to finish them off) you get a good army survivability early game which helps you late game.

I dig it. You still have the problem of collosi / storm but at least now you have a core set of ghosts you don't have to build again (+ they will have energy).

I am glad Terran's are finally going to make ghost a focus and try to abuse their abilties in the beta. It's going to force Protoss to find a counter, and if Protoss can't it will cause EMP/Ghost to be nerfed.

My mind has been turning on how to handle ghosts for a long time as Protoss. They are a very powerful unit in that matchup. I have some ideas on how to handle this build, but it's all theory craft.

 

[mbmonk]

How about not saying anything and just playing? =)

Because some people want to be social?

 

[Keyouta]

I'd be so grateful if I could get a SC2 beta key

 

[Instro]

I'd be so grateful if I could get a SC2 beta key

There's a separate thread for key begging somewhere, you're more likely to get one there.

 

[Yoshichan]

Hmm... need to change the way I play as a Protoss... anyone want to help?

GAME START
1. Fix ~10 workers + a Pylon away from the base, near a narrow path in case enemies are going to attack (and not vice-versa)

2. Gateway @ Pylon

3. Keep pressuring workers all the time

4. 3-4 pylons near main base

5. Build gas, Cyber Core and start spamming some Zeals

6. Research Warp Gate, build two more Gateways near the (1) Gateway

7. Use Warpgate on all Gateways and start spamming Sentries, Zeals and Stalkers

8. Upgrade Hallucination

9. Attack or wait to be attacked

Anyone ? I'm a super scrub.

 

[Keyouta]

Ah. Okay, I found it. Thanks

 

[ChronicleX]

Hmm... need to change the way I play as a Protoss... anyone want to help?

Building the same way everygame is a sure way to loose and protoss do not make very good turtlers since they have no way to heal their units/buildings, eventually your defence will fall. Your best bet is to scout early and get enough units to counter what they could rush you with with you try and raid their eco using warp prism drops/warps.

 

[MisterAnderson]

Hmm... need to change the way I play as a Protoss... anyone want to help?

GAME START
1. Fix ~10 workers + a Pylon away from the base, near a narrow path in case enemies are going to attack (and not vice-versa)

2. Gateway @ Pylon

3. Keep pressuring workers all the time

4. 3-4 pylons near main base

5. Build gas, Cyber Core and start spamming some Zeals

6. Research Warp Gate, build two more Gateways near the (1) Gateway

7. Use Warpgate on all Gateways and start spamming Sentries, Zeals and Stalkers

8. Upgrade Hallucination

9. Attack or wait to be attacked

Anyone ? I'm a super scrub.

9 Pylon
10 chrono boost your next 3 probes
13 Gateway
14 Assimilator
16 Pylon

Then from here you can do any number of things. You can double Gateway build or go straight to Cyber Core as soon as your Gateway is finished and tech to Robo Facility. You want to get your second Assimilator pretty much as soon as you start building your Cyber Core.

Scouting should determine what you do next, I typically send out my Probe who creates the 9 Pylon to scout.