Technosteve
Banned
Hazaro said:
is it really?
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StarCraft 2 Beta |OT| (Beta Now Reopen, GL HF)
- Thread starter Scrow
- Start date
is it really?
Feep said:
Proxy: Building a Barracks, or Pylon etc, far away from your base, unbeknownst to your enemy. Like building a Rax(Barracks) inside your enemys base without him knowing, building a pylon near your enemies base so your reinforcements arrive quickly.
Cheese: Using cheap tactics, like Photon Cannon rush, Barracks proxy inside the enemies base, reaper+bunker could be considered cheese....
10supply, 8pool, 9pylon refer to when a certain building is being built. 8 Pool means that you, as Zerg, build your spawning pool at your 8th harvester. 9 Pylon means that you build your pylon once you built your 9th probe.
Disagree on that. Cheese is usually very early agression + all-in strat.Des0lar said:
In many many cases the Reaper harass just sets up early tech + harassment while the Terran doesn't fall behind on economy because of MULEs. You have your gas earlier and you can do interesting things with the build.
Another example of this was a 5 pool in a pro-match (SC1) where the Zerg player followed up into a double expansion. I recently had a 7 pool happen to me in a 2v2 (SC2) where he followed up with a quick expansion and his partner kept on early pressure with a proxy rax.
Is it annoying as hell and really stupid? Yes. But it's not cheese imo
close to the edge
Member
I just completed the placement matches in 2v2 with a friend, we landed in Bronze league. I'm Protoss, he's Terran. We got matched up against a Platinum team in our first ladder game.. obviously we lost big time. Why does something like this happen?
close to the edge said:
How do you know they are platinum? The current UI doesn't display the league of your opponent. You can't just assume if a team is better than you that they're platinum. Also, platinum has a HUGE range of skill. Everyone who was raned D+ to A+ on ICCUP in Broodwar seems to be in Platinum, with the D players sitting in Silver/Gold, and Battle.net players sitting in Copper/Bronze.
It only matches you with people above your league if:
A) You've been winning too much so they want to test if you are ready to move up
B) The matchmaking system couldn't find any other teams in your league
A probably wasn't the case if you just got placed in a league, so it was possibly B. Problem B won't happen when the game is released, and there are millions of players instead of 30,000 hardcore players.
You need to play better people to improve and learn new things. Probably not the best to face plats in your first game... but the matchmaking works really well in my experience.close to the edge said:
You need both ID's for people to add you. Homeskillet.______HomShaBom said:
thestopsign
Member
Hazaro said:
What league you play in for 2v2 Haz? I just watched your game and I would like to think that I can play a lot better than almost all of those players. I have a much higher APM (around 60-70 normally), and have a very good macro game yet I'm still only in the Bronze league.
h0pper said:
When the game comes out, there will be a ton of people that suck. Just play Co-op vs the AI for a month or so, gradually working your way up the difficulty settings, then start matchmaking and you should be set. By then, all the best players will have been placed or promoted, so the lower leagues will be lower skill.
Zzoram said:
true. I don't mind learning. It's just a process. Takes time for me. It was the same with RoC and TFT. I usually get a decent harass in. But, end up losing all my units due to shitty micro. Then I get countered and fall apart.
Well the problem was for that game neither of them expected my ghost to be on the low ground. And they were stupid stubborn about moving their workers away...thestopsign said:
The Terran seemed to only think I was defensive nuking his units. (He was a plat with 170 games, his partner a bronze player)
Anyway I am in 2v2 silver, 2v2 silver, and 2v2 gold. I was 2v2 plat with more people earlier but I am playing with my buddies instead of good people
I certainly could have done much better in the match (and so could have the Terran) but getting nuked over and over again messes with you
Plus it was maybe the 8th game of the day for me after I had watched another 8 games streamed. Was Starcrafted out by that point and I didn't care so I went proxy reaper into nukes for kicks.
I've only played a single ranked 1v1 since patch but I've been in Silver, Gold, and Plat. I haven't really laddered much or played too many 1v1's because it's too stressful and I end up thinking about everything I could have done and watch the replays like 3 times.
If you have a good APM and good macro why are you in bronze? Work on scouting and learning what buildings at what time mean what for the player and take appropriate action to counter what they are doing while trying to deny scouting on your end.
h0pper said:
A mistake new players universally make is too much emphasis on micro. It's macro that wins games. You can micro your army all you want, but if you don't have a giant replacement army ready the moment that battle is over, you're going to lose. While watching a battle, you're likely not making any units, and your money is building up to 2000+ minerals, while your opponent may have used the 2000+ minerals he mined during that battle to make an army to reinforce or counter attack.
Harassment isn't purely for the economic advantage it can give you if you are successful. It's also meant to distract the opponent into forgetting to macro.
Hazaro said:
The gameplay things, again, show this wierd concept that a lot of so-called "high level" players have: they don't understand what starcraft is actually about.
They say that there's no micro because the microable units are too easy to move, but this is really ridiculous: Starcraft isn't about how it's about what. Do these people scoff at poker because the cards are too easy to read and don't weigh 50 pounds each? It's the same way that high-level fighting games, you very seldom see a whiffed input. In fact, the inputs really only affect things like being unable to charge back when walking forward so if your opponent is walking forward you know they can't be charging back: the actual difficulty of the inputs is irrelevant to high-level play, in the same way that the interface difficulty of a reaver drop is irrelevant to high level play.
Also, They say the macro doesn't really matter because everyone already knows the builds, but the fact again it's not HOW but WHAT. I watched a replay that someone built a building and cancelled it as soon as the enemy couldn't see it, and went an entirely different tact. That's a macro move, but it has nothing to do with build orders but everything to do with being a skill player. Being 50 minerals faster is meaningless if you're just following a list of clicks you have practiced.
Starcraft isn't about being out-clicked or out-hotkeyed or out-dropped, it's about being out-moved and out-thought. A lot of the sc2-has-no-game posts seem to ignore this.
fatty
Member
Just want to say thanks for all of the advice from my previous questions, just haven't had the time to log in due to being out all day during Mother's Day. The advice helped out (forgot about the vision problem for blink), but I still need to find a way to incorporate the hotkey mechanics for warp gates better where I feel comfortable. Still wondering about a decent Protoss counter for Void Rays though.
As for people who say they are noobs and are needing a friend to practice with. You can add me at Robert.fatty. I'm not good (Bronze League) and even if you need someone just to try different things out to get a better feel I have no problem doing that as I'm a patient guy.
When ever I am on I'm just doing 1v1 so don't hesitate to send me a message or even a PM here and we can set up a time to play. (I'll probably be off tonight but normally I can be free around 8-10pm CST)
As for people who say they are noobs and are needing a friend to practice with. You can add me at Robert.fatty. I'm not good (Bronze League) and even if you need someone just to try different things out to get a better feel I have no problem doing that as I'm a patient guy.
When ever I am on I'm just doing 1v1 so don't hesitate to send me a message or even a PM here and we can set up a time to play. (I'll probably be off tonight but normally I can be free around 8-10pm CST)
Zzoram said:
I'm in Gold league and this is very true. One of the issues I find happening with me is that I forget to replace my army when I'm attacking or defending. Especially when I'm playing Protoss with WarpGates because I can't warp using the minimap. How do people normally do this? =(
In my league people have a lot of issue with scouting it seems. They're so focused on building up their own base that when they or I attack, they get overwhelmed and it's too late for them to switch tech.
I'm not good by any means, but Zzoram is entirely correct when he says that macro win games. Micro is good and all but it won't do you any good if you have the wrong units or if you don't have any replacement units. Once you improve on the macro game should you start focus a bit more on micro IMO.
Another thing I suggest is to pick a race and stick with it for a bit. Learn all the different build orders to counter against T and Z. It's better to be awesome at one race than to be okay at all three.
EDIT: Advice not towards Zzoram but to whomever is having issues
fatty
Member
Sarye said:
That is my problem as well! Let's say I'm at the opponent's base in the heat of battle, unless I have a pylon in his base I don't see a way of creating more units unless I switch the screen off of the battle to a pyloned area. So my macro suffers big time.
I also recommend sticking with one race, but still play a bit with the other two at first just so you know how they act so you know their basic strengths and weaknesses. But after you get the gist I would try to stick with one. For a while I was just always playing random but I'm now starting to try and dig my heels in and learn playing Protoss. (the Collossi and Void Rays look so cool, ha ha)
thestopsign
Member
Hazaro said:Well the problem was for that game neither of them expected my ghost to be on the low ground. And they were stupid stubborn about moving their workers away...
The Terran seemed to only think I was defensive nuking his units. (He was a plat with 170 games, his partner a bronze player)
Anyway I am in 2v2 silver, 2v2 silver, and 2v2 gold. I was 2v2 plat with more people earlier but I am playing with my buddies instead of good people
I certainly could have done much better in the match (and so could have the Terran) but getting nuked over and over again messes with you
Plus it was maybe the 8th game of the day for me after I had watched another 8 games streamed. Was Starcrafted out by that point and I didn't care so I went proxy reaper into nukes for kicks.
I've only played a single ranked 1v1 since patch but I've been in Silver, Gold, and Plat. I haven't really laddered much or played too many 1v1's because it's too stressful and I end up thinking about everything I could have done and watch the replays like 3 times.
If you have a good APM and good macro why are you in bronze? Work on scouting and learning what buildings at what time mean what for the player and take appropriate action to counter what they are doing while trying to deny scouting on your end.
It's more that I started off badly (I just got my beta key like a week ago, so I never had any resets), I've won 6 out of my last 7 1v1, the only real problem I have 1v1 is ZvZ. I'm in the top 15 of my Bronze league right now, so I'm hoping to get into Silver soon.
2v2 I'm not as good at, mostly because I'm playing with my friends who just plain out aren't that good at SC2 yet. The 2v2 games normally get too drawn out and end in some giant battle. The times we win are when we do good timing pushes early game or good harass with either Reapers or Mutas.
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/day9tv
Day[9] is on now! Free vs Hiya (Epic SC 1 game)
If you haven't seen this you should because it was a great non-standard game.
Day[9] is on now! Free vs Hiya (Epic SC 1 game)
If you haven't seen this you should because it was a great non-standard game.
:lol Far too slow and unprecise.Ashhong said:
Maybe if people grew 5 more fingers per hand.
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/day9tv
Get in here!
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
I usually just wait till their on demand since I always miss the start :lolHazaro said:
Pai Pai Master
Banned
I hate mass void rays. :lol
Pai Pai Master
Banned
-COOLIO- said:
Meh, a good Phoenix player is way more impressive looking than a shitload of void rays.
Currently fucking the shit out of my 1v1 placement because I'm just not good enough yet to mass enough hydras to hold off a big fleet of VRs and it's all I've been up against so far. :lol Practice makes perfect though, I'll keep improving my timings.
I also need to improve my hydra micro so I can make it harder for them to hold their charges.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
wouldnt corruptors be better? void rays are armored arnt they?Pai Pai Master said:Meh, a good Phoenix player is way more impressive looking than a shitload of void rays.
Currently fucking the shit out of my 1v1 placement because I'm just not good enough yet to mass enough hydras to hold off a big fleet of VRs and it's all I've been up against so far. :lol Practice makes perfect though, I'll keep improving my timings.
I also need to improve my hydra micro so I can make it harder for them to hold their charges.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
-COOLIO- said:
Isn't it the other way around? Corruptors get a damage bonus on Massive units. I thought Void Rays get a bonus on armored?
Edit: Beaten. Regardless I can't see how Corruptors would be a cost effective counter when hydras come so much earlier.
msv said:
Man, if people think the pros are complaining now with very few units having moving shot? Imagine how they'd think if everybody could control the game with mind control. That'd mean everybody would have like, infinite apm.
thestopsign
Member
Pai Pai Master said:Meh, a good Phoenix player is way more impressive looking than a shitload of void rays.
Currently fucking the shit out of my 1v1 placement because I'm just not good enough yet to mass enough hydras to hold off a big fleet of VRs and it's all I've been up against so far. :lol Practice makes perfect though, I'll keep improving my timings.
I also need to improve my hydra micro so I can make it harder for them to hold their charges.
I find to counter Voids, you either have to push out with roaches before they start to mass produce them, or you have to out expand them and mass hydras like no tomorrow.
Edit: 3000 posts!
Mass void rays is probably the easiest thing for a protoss player to counter though (IMO at least). A well microed fleet of Phoenixes, because they can move while shooting now, and move faster than void rays as well should be able to shred through the void rays, and after that, go harass some probes or something :lol. Just don't let them get enough resources to mass anything and you should be good.