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StarCraft 2 Beta |OT| (Beta Now Reopen, GL HF)
- Thread starter Scrow
- Start date
I don't understand why people get warp gates so quickly. Make a few stalkers or sentries first then get it.
It's not like a single warpgate is going to do that much imo. You can start it when you plop down your other 2 additional gateways.
I don't play Toss though.
It's not like a single warpgate is going to do that much imo. You can start it when you plop down your other 2 additional gateways.
I don't play Toss though.
It's useful for getting in clutch sentries. As long as they have forcefield on warp in, I'll train Warp Gates ASAP.
True, it's by no means necessary and for me it's simply a matter of convenience. I think once the gateways start building it's too late to research warp gates unless you're not planning to warp stuff in at all. Basically, the moment gates 2 and 3 go down, you want to be able to turn them into warp gates at a moment's notice. Since the training takes a while even while constantly chronoed, I like to get it out of the way early so I don't forget later on.
True, it's by no means necessary and for me it's simply a matter of convenience. I think once the gateways start building it's too late to research warp gates unless you're not planning to warp stuff in at all. Basically, the moment gates 2 and 3 go down, you want to be able to turn them into warp gates at a moment's notice. Since the training takes a while even while constantly chronoed, I like to get it out of the way early so I don't forget later on.
I usually have enough gas for both. I think it's mathematically impossible but I love my stalkers and my warp gates and sentry spam and I never really run into gas issues until I'm building colossi from two robos.
I'm saying, it's a bit late to train warp gates when gates 2 and 3 are already being warped in. The research time is long even with chrono and I like having the luxury of turning gates 2 and 3 into warp gates upon construction.
Halycon said:
If I don't place the pylon near the ramp, won't that just delay my choke?
I don't want skip immortals. In PvP, they can make the difference if your opponent is going for stalkers, which happens a lot because of sentries.
My APM is still in the sub-100s, highest I've gotten is around 60. Getting the timing perfect on every single thing probably won't happen for some time, especially since I play Random.
I have a bad habit of late gas with every race I play. This probably would have made a difference in a more macro oriented game, but I don't think it played much of a factor in this particular match.
He was about to die. Moving him back and then sending him to back attack would have made the enemy zealots target the other guys who had more hp, keeping him alive a bit faster. His re-attack took longer than it should have, not really sure what happened there. Keeping him at that position would have been moot for protecting the stalker, since he would have only lasted one or two more zealot swipes.
Halycon said:
Even if your warp gates research really late, there's no reason NOT to research it.
Hazaro said:
Yeah, 16 Gold atm. I'm not saying that I'm bad, just that I'm not going to time every single Chrono Boost, larva, mule, and building perfectly. My micro/macro balance still needs work.
I choke with double gates or gate + cyber. Leaves the cyber vulnerable but if they can knock it down a pylon wouldn't stand a chance.
Yeah I know, I only use the "no space" choke against zerg or when I feel like stalker spamming.
I have sub 30 APM on average. Just remember to check your gates from time to time.
Well, if you had enough gas to go for the early sentry instead of stalker, you might've been able to hold them off with FF while you build reinforcements. The unit really is as strong as everyone says it is and crucial to early toss defense.
Right, I see that you were trying to shuffle them but he wigged out a bit afterward, bad AI I guess.
Halycon said:
Double gate is a late choke if I'm doing gate into cyber. I don't feel comfortable putting the cyber on the ramp. I think I just needed to squeeze the gateway onto the left side of the ramp instead of flush with the pylon in the middle, and then and moved my second pylon into its range as a backup.
Hazaro said:
If you get the assim on 12-13 right after you drop the gate at 10-11, by the time the cyber core pops(even if you just go one gate into cyber, like I almost always do), you will have enough gas for the stalker and the research at the same time.
I don't like dropping more than one gate until I scout the opponent usually. If i see more tech than army, or an early double gas or something, I immediately drop 3 more gates and by the time they are in, warpgate is finished, and in like 45 secs you can have more than a dozen units headed to their base and a pylon set up outside for reinforcements, and you are unstoppable.
I don't save my first chrono boosts for warp gate though, I use the first 2-3 on probes, and by the time the core is done, I should have enough energy for 2 boosts on that anyway, after it finishes the chrono goes back to probes.
Warp gates are actually more powerful the earlier you get them it seems.
Plus it's handy to have early(and late) so you can warp units directly to your mineral line to deal with harassment. Not having to run units back from the front line or wait for them to build is so awesome. Nothing beats scouting a few reapers coming down to jump up on your mineral line and warping in a couple stalkers right on top of where they are about to hop up. It's hilarious watching their jetpacks blow up as soon as they jump up(anyone else think the reaper death animation is the greatest thing ever? :lol :lol ).
Ashhong said:
No, I mean that if I'm doing 1 gate, then cyber, then my choke will be wide for a longer period of time until I get the second gate down. If I'm trying to prevent a double gate zealot rush or a zergling rush, I think it's better to close that choke early.
Edit: What haly said.
MisterAnderson
Member
I don't know what it is, but I find at this time of night/morning I do better in 1v1 ladder than during the afternoon/evening...You'd think the really good players would be on at this time and my luck would be reversed.
I just got someone to say "gg fuck you blizzard" before he left as I stomped his Toss army as Terran. And in the very next game "zerg are so lame" before quitting. Good times. Nothing compares to like a week ago when this one guy who straight up said nothing but "fuck you" before quitting. :lol
I just got someone to say "gg fuck you blizzard" before he left as I stomped his Toss army as Terran. And in the very next game "zerg are so lame" before quitting. Good times. Nothing compares to like a week ago when this one guy who straight up said nothing but "fuck you" before quitting. :lol
ZealousD said:
Oh, I was just saying there is no reason to go Gate -> Cyber -> Gate when you can do Gate -> Gate -> Cyber in the same time
i could be completely mistaken with my timing...or missing your point entirely =P
MisterAnderson said:
people are really hating on cheese these days. i was playing 2v2 random and my partner decided to build cannons outside of their base, in their nat area. i didnt even think this was really cheese, but they got royally pissed off and started cussing at us. i was just massing stalkers and blinking into their base from the side. its called containment and map control bitches!
Depends, if you go gate gate you're slowing down when you can get that first sentry/stalker. If you want to try to get a sentry/stalker at nearly the same time as a gate -> cyber build then you need to hold back on your zealot/probe production.
MisterAnderson said:
Haha, I love when people shit talk.
A couple days ago, I had a dude proxy gateway and cannon right in my natural(my scouting probe went right by his probe as he was dropping the pylon, it was like half a square away from being spotted, I was kicking myself after I saw the replay). Naturally, after I killed off his cheese and promptly rolled him because he went all in(dude sent like 3 dozen zealots and a dozen probes up my ramp where they were promptly slaughtered, not even counting all the pylons and cannons I killed while they were warping in), he blamed it on the lag and ragequit, even though there was no lag the whole game.
:lol :lol
Halycon said:
yea i dont build any zealots, but my point was that i get my second gate down and still have enough minerals to get my cyber down as soon as my first gate is done, all while building probes. so my stalker/sentry speed should be equal to gate->cyber, and i may be able to squeeze in 1 zealot
I really dislike playing against Protoss. Luckily I've been able to play more Zerg and Terran (what I usually play). I don't mind an early push against me as I think I've gotten pretty decent at walling off and then placing my supply depots around my base to get a good look at it. However I dislike that toss can put up pylons anywhere they want and thus warp in troops to almost any location on the map.
Why more people don't have issues with this I don't understand. They already have a second layer of health with their shields which puts them at a advantage over the other factions right from the start. Combine that with only having to summon buildings and freeing their workers to do other things. I don't even want to think about psystorm. I wouldn't mind if it took a high level unit to call in troops or if they had to work up to the tech to do it the way Zerg do and Terrans do with the medivac in order to move troops around the map quickly.
I guess I"m just a fan of RTS where you can only build core buildings within the area of influence of your main base.
Though I do think the Viking is my unit of choice now (I'm a mecha fan in general).
Why more people don't have issues with this I don't understand. They already have a second layer of health with their shields which puts them at a advantage over the other factions right from the start. Combine that with only having to summon buildings and freeing their workers to do other things. I don't even want to think about psystorm. I wouldn't mind if it took a high level unit to call in troops or if they had to work up to the tech to do it the way Zerg do and Terrans do with the medivac in order to move troops around the map quickly.
I guess I"m just a fan of RTS where you can only build core buildings within the area of influence of your main base.
Though I do think the Viking is my unit of choice now (I'm a mecha fan in general).
ChronicleX
Banned
Hazaro said:
It takes along time to get and is cheap to tech. The other reason is once you have warp gates you no longer have to worry about army placement or production macro since you are alerted the second a warp is ready (and how many) with the ability to spawn anywhere.
In short no reason not to get it. It is as important to Protoss as Orbital Command is to Terran or Queens to a Zerg.
FromTheFuture
Member
Well the thing is, at a cost of only 50/50, it's incredibly cheap to get. The upgrade takes quite a while to get as well. The way I play involves timing my Warp Gate upgrade to finish just as my 2nd (and soon 3rd, 4th if I went for a Gateway centered build) in order to maximize production and have a decent timing push. That said, you can pull out a Sentry and a Stalker and upgrade Warp Gate tech all at once when your Core completes if you set up your build correctly.Hazaro said:
Adent said:
Well not really harassed but still weird.
Him: Hi John
(That scared the f*ck out of me because my real name is actually John. I feared that he might have hacked my B-net account or whatsoever. But i tried playing it cool)
Me: Hi
Him: Are you John?
Me: No
Him: Then why the "%$§ are you answering me?
Hm maybe I'm doing something wrong but my marine count is always very small. Plus a MMM ball always clumps up and mutas do splash damage...
Confused101
Member
I had a 2v2 the other day where I got handily reaper smacked and the bastard took out my nexus before my partner could fend them off. Yes, I say my partner because I was going zealots like an idiot against a Terran opponent. I took my probes and scouted an area to rebuild while throwing my entire force at the enemy. Luckily, Terran's partner was a first time player and I walked right in with my 12 or so zealots and wrecked his economy and nexus. Basically no resistance at all.
Then I see this come over the "ALL" channel: "Stay in game. I'll have these guys dead in a minute."
My partner loaned me 200 minerals so I could build a second nexus as he was massing stalkers. I was able to not only rebuild, but get 4 warpgates, EXPAND (on the rich minerals no less), and throw down stargates which I ultimately didn't need. My partner and I walked around the map with a gigantic stalker army and it was clear that all our Terran opponent knew how to do was make a lot of reapers relatively fast. He didn't bother expanding because he thought he had the game in the bag. We blinked up into his base and he quit. We promptly destroyed what was left of his partner and that was the game.
I wish I would've talked some smack but I was too busy making sure I was producing enough to ensure a win. I still thought it was hilarious though.
Then I see this come over the "ALL" channel: "Stay in game. I'll have these guys dead in a minute."
My partner loaned me 200 minerals so I could build a second nexus as he was massing stalkers. I was able to not only rebuild, but get 4 warpgates, EXPAND (on the rich minerals no less), and throw down stargates which I ultimately didn't need. My partner and I walked around the map with a gigantic stalker army and it was clear that all our Terran opponent knew how to do was make a lot of reapers relatively fast. He didn't bother expanding because he thought he had the game in the bag. We blinked up into his base and he quit. We promptly destroyed what was left of his partner and that was the game.
I wish I would've talked some smack but I was too busy making sure I was producing enough to ensure a win. I still thought it was hilarious though.
prodystopian
Member
Is Battle.net still down from yesterday? I can get to everything on the site except I can't DL the beta to this computer. Anyone else having problems?
Last two tvz games i have been rushed with mutas, scouted both times, wasnt sure what to do so i went marines, built a viking too, which held the first rush, but not the second, i cant seem to build stuff fast enough to repel, even though i know its coming.
Tips fine mentelgen?
Tips fine mentelgen?
Ashhong said:
I've just tried this several times with 13 gate. I either get supply blocked on the first zealot or the gas comes too late to build a stalker once the cyber finishes.
Tried it with 10 gate too. It simply doesn't have the economy to get the cyber up when the first gateway finishes, and when the first gate DOES come up, not enough minerals to get the first zealot.
You're making a sacrifice SOMEWHERE.
Edit: Oh, you're sacrificing a zealot? I've been having this discussion in terms of PvP, which means I need zealots blocking my ramp. Trying to stop a double gateway rush, and 1 stalker won't stop 5 zealots.
Alright, so here's my new PvP opener. 13 gate, with 2 zealots and a sentry guarding the entrance. Also shows my better choke.
http://www.mediafire.com/?zwwz3dlojjz
Anything after the second gateway is open for me, I'd probably go with that third gate if the opponent is double gateway rushing, or robo if the opponent is getting earlier stalkers.
http://www.mediafire.com/?zwwz3dlojjz
Anything after the second gateway is open for me, I'd probably go with that third gate if the opponent is double gateway rushing, or robo if the opponent is getting earlier stalkers.
thestopsign
Member
Anyone heard the rumor that the beta is ending June 1st. Are these rumors true?
fatty
Member
ChronicleX said:
Could you or anyone else elaborate on this? You still have to spawn within pylon range, so when attacking an opponent's base do you produce a pylon just outside his base? Otherwise, in the middle of battle you would still have to hotkey back to a screen of your base to produce units instead of hotkeying the normal way while still fighting. Me being a bronze player I'm still trying to learn of a good way to incorporate usage of warp gates, and I'm still not sure how rally points with warp gates would work.
Anyone have any good replays or VODs where this is shown used offensively (I've seen defensive use of warp gates and they are very efficient in this scenario)?
fatty said:
W is the hot key for all your warp gates. Use it to select all your gates, then you can just warp in units very quickly.
Generally when I push with an army I bring a probe with me, to build a pylon right behind the line... so I can continually feed my troops. Also it's nice to have pylons placed in locations that the enemy might attack, so you can spawn in troops quickly to defend.
Also don't think of warp gates as defense/offensive. It's just protoss way of building units really (you should never not go warp gates).
fatty
Member
I don't think of the warp gates themselves as offensive/defensive, but to me it just seems like they are easier to use when defending (like the example above of defending the mineral line against the reaper early game).
So when using warp gates, I'm pretty much going to have to bring a probe (or a phase prism) with my army to build the proxy pylons? I guess that is the downside to having the easy access from the 'W' hotkey but for me it will hurt my already poor micro since I will probably have to have that probe with its own separate hotkey and to make sure it stays away from the rest of the group.
So when using warp gates, I'm pretty much going to have to bring a probe (or a phase prism) with my army to build the proxy pylons? I guess that is the downside to having the easy access from the 'W' hotkey but for me it will hurt my already poor micro since I will probably have to have that probe with its own separate hotkey and to make sure it stays away from the rest of the group.
fatty said:
You don't have to do that... but if you want reinforcements instantly which is an advantage over all the other races then yes. Otherwise you'd just pop back to your base hit W summon a crap load and then tell them to come to the front line (you can tell them to move while warping in).
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Halycon said:
The first time I ever saw a warp prism used was yesterday when a guy flew one in over my mineral line and warped in a bunch of Zealots. Luckily I had a few siege tanks and made quick work of them, but he still did some nice damage to my economy.
Confused101
Member
Ooo, I like this. I'll have to start utilizing it more. And I completely agree on the DTs. I'm surprised by how many players don't plan for cloaked units.Ferrio said:
fatty
Member
Oh, I didn't know that phase prisms were transport units as well.
I like using Dark Templars but man they can burn through gas like nobody's business. If they don't have any kind of detection I like to sneak them through to the mineral line but if I see they are prepared I just use them for map control.
I used to use the DT themselves to prevent expansions but now I will wait a bit until that expansion is just established and then bring in a small army to wreak havoc on it causing a bigger hit to their economy.
I like using Dark Templars but man they can burn through gas like nobody's business. If they don't have any kind of detection I like to sneak them through to the mineral line but if I see they are prepared I just use them for map control.
I used to use the DT themselves to prevent expansions but now I will wait a bit until that expansion is just established and then bring in a small army to wreak havoc on it causing a bigger hit to their economy.
Just got in the beta yesterday, woot!
I played through single player SC back in the day, but never got real good at multi. I'm afraid I'm gonna get my ass kicked a whole bunch
Anyone have a look to a good beginners guide, ya'know with basic strats, and explanations of all the different terms that you vets use? That would be awesome, thanks!
I played through single player SC back in the day, but never got real good at multi. I'm afraid I'm gonna get my ass kicked a whole bunch
Anyone have a look to a good beginners guide, ya'know with basic strats, and explanations of all the different terms that you vets use? That would be awesome, thanks!
cooljeanius
Member
Does the beta have any way to practice before you get thrown right into multiplayer? It'd be nice to have some experience with the new units and stuff before actually trying to command them in a multiplayer game. Anyway, in the meantime, I've downloaded the original Starcraft and Brood War to my laptop (finally put my key into Battle.net for it). I've been replaying the single player campaign to get back into the swing of RTS games and also to see if I can do it without cheats this time. Hopefully this will help me prepare for Starcraft II...
fatty
Member
Glix said:Just got in the beta yesterday, woot!
I played through single player SC back in the day, but never got real good at multi. I'm afraid I'm gonna get my ass kicked a whole bunch
Anyone have a look to a good beginners guide, ya'know with basic strats, and explanations of all the different terms that you vets use? That would be awesome, thanks!
Unfortunately, I haven't seen a good beginners guide to Starcraft 2 yet.
Team Liquid has the Liquidpedia for both games, but the one for SC2 is just getting started. Good news is that a lot of the terms and basic theories behind the game transfer over so using the strategy section of the Broodwar Liquidpedia is a good place to start. You'll learn pretty much all of the SC lingo there and of course don't hesitate to ask any questions here. But as for a good breakdown of the new units and some different strategies, I haven't stumbled upon anything. But make sure to check out Blizzard's own SC2 page for a general overview of the units.
Ingeniero
Member
I just won a long TvZ on Kulas Ravine, I went 2 x rax marines/marauder, pushed his expo, then he switched to MASS zerlings and raped my marauders, I built 2 more rax, expo and tried to push again with MMM ball, he counter with roach/hydra/ling.
Then he countered and I barely survived, so I built bunker, tank new expo and turtle for a while full macro and raped him with 200 units and upgrades.
He called me a fag and turtle ass player, he was so mad :lol
Then he countered and I barely survived, so I built bunker, tank new expo and turtle for a while full macro and raped him with 200 units and upgrades.
He called me a fag and turtle ass player, he was so mad :lol