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StarCraft 2 Beta |OT| (Beta Now Reopen, GL HF)

Zzoram

Member
Sh1ner said:
In the HDStarcraft/Husky vids they assigns 2 each, thats the same for minerals for 1 crystal thingy. Anymore the SUVs end up queuing unless the nexus/whatever is further away then usual.

edit: beaten by autobzooty, how does one delete his own post?

That could just be early game. Long time Starcraft Broodwar players are used to not using geysers to their potential early game to horde more minerals for early expansions or something else. It is also very common for players to pull workers off of gas as soon as they hit some threshold where they can build the tech they want, but won't need gas for a while because of their planned near-term unit composition.

In Broodwar, it takes 3 workers to maximize gas production from a geyser at the closest distance allowed, but you often see 0, 1, or 2 workers mining gas at different timings in the early game.
 

Zzoram

Member
g35twinturbo said:
ugh I hate zergs and people who zerg rush.

got zerged in less then 3mins in a FFA game by 1 dude :/

You can beat that. Wall off your entrance if you're Terran, so 1 Marine can scare them off, and use SCVs to repair your wall. If you're not, use your workers to support your Zealots/Zerglings if they get in your base. Generally, you want to wall off your ramp with Zealots/Zerglings standing in a semi-concave so they have the most trouble attacking up your ramp.

Also, in any small maps (2 or 3 player) or FFAs, you should send out a scouting worker around 10 population to see what they are doing, and consider being less greedy with your build order due to the higher risk of rushes.

In 4 player maps, it is pretty rare for anyone to do a super early Zergling rush since they can't guarantee they'll go to the right base on their first try, which would result in a late Zergling rush that is easily deflected, and a damaged economy due to cutting worker production for the early Spawning Pool.
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Zzoram said:
You can beat that. Wall off your entrance if you're Terran, so 1 Marine can scare them off, and use SCVs to repair your wall. If you're not, use your workers to support your Zealots/Zerglings if they get in your base. Generally, you want to wall off your ramp with Zealots/Zerglings standing in a semi-concave so they have the most trouble attacking up your ramp.

If you're Protoss against Zerg, you can still tighten the choke with pylons and gateways, and just leave a little space for units to go through. Block the choke with Zealots and tell them to hold position so that zerglings can't surround. This way you can still block your choke with as little as two zealots.
 

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
You only need 1 zealot to wall, but if you want to be more agressive you can leave 2 spots so you can have a probe (or 2) also attack (2 zealot attacks + probe hit = dead ling).
 
Sh1ner said:
In the HDStarcraft/Husky vids they assigns 2 each, thats the same for minerals for 1 crystal thingy. Anymore the SUVs end up queuing unless the nexus/whatever is further away then usual.

edit: beaten by autobzooty, how does one delete his own post?
You might be confused. When you send 3 to a geyser, there is always one inside, and two outside. Just because two appear outside doesn't mean they've only sent two. Higher level players might change the amount of gas miners to tend to their build accordingly, but anything below that high level play, it is a non-issue.

autobzooty said:
It depends on how far away your command center/nexus/hatchery is from the gas. Only one worker can be in the gas facility at a time, so to efficiently mine, just make sure that there's never more than one worker waiting outside at a time. Usually that means 2 or 3 workers.
When a geyser is as close as possible to your base, you can only maximize efficiency with 3 miners. Any less and you're not getting enough gas, any more and you're wasting harvesters on geysers.
 
It's not always wise to send 3 workers to gas right off the bat. Depending on the build you're going for, it's sometimes better to have less than a full optimization of workers on a geyser when there's other things that are more important than gas early in the game.

That was the case in SC1, anyways. Not sure how much has changed in SC2.
 

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
Well in SC2 you need 6 workers to saturate your gas collection.

Say as Terran and you only want a fast reactor / a few mards you can be fine on just 1 gas with 3 workers.
Also helps getting that Orbital command early so it can kick in fast.

As for minerals 'optimal' seems be be 2x per patch as the timing is right. For maximum it is probably 2.5x or so.
Keep in mind you'll also need another 6 for gas.
 
Trasher said:
How many workers are people putting on minerals? Seems like a lot more compared to SC1.

2 is extremely close to perfect efficiency, so you do a disservice by going any higher. 24 total on 8 minerals basically maxes out the mineral intake, anything over that actually makes the mineral intake LOWER.

The way I see it being perfect is when you at least get 16, then if you add any more it should only be for expansion adding at a later time.

I found out about that on team liquid a while ago, so dont hate me for not providing a link. The people doing the tests were very exact about it.
 

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
http://www.livestream.com/bukkit

KawaiiRice is playing SC2!
Ranked A- or B iCCup and a very good player with fast apm.

You will have to listen to a lot or korean and japanese music though.

*Still clicking on buildings to build :lol
Probably just got the Beta or is trying out SC1 style?
 
Trasher said:
How many workers are people putting on minerals? Seems like a lot more compared to SC1.

You should not be putting more than 2 workers per mineral patch UNLESS you plan on transferring workers to an expansion. While your expansion is being built, you can add 8 more workers to your line and then transfer them to the expansion once it's ready.

Reading this helps a lot:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=113089
 

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
Yeah just go on teamliquid if you are wondering about Starcraft.

So think about it this way: Every probe you build and throw on minerals after 24 is doing absolutely nothing. If you are adding them because you plan on expanding, you must remember that they are just wasted minerals until the moment that expansion comes up. If you could get away with it, it'd even be better to long distance mine than add a 25th probe onto your main.
Awesome.
 
Are there any functions in-game to get a headcount on your SCVs or Marines or whatever? Like what they have in the replay mode? Would be helpful for making sure you got the right number of workers going, or for sizing up your overall army.
 
autobzooty said:
Are there any functions in-game to get a headcount on your SCVs or Marines or whatever? Like what they have in the replay mode? Would be helpful for making sure you got the right number of workers going, or for sizing up your overall army.
Double click one of your SCVs and it should give you all the SCVs on your screen.
 
autobzooty said:
Are there any functions in-game to get a headcount on your SCVs or Marines or whatever? Like what they have in the replay mode? Would be helpful for making sure you got the right number of workers going, or for sizing up your overall army.

no. you have to use a box and base it off of the 8 unit per row. I actually find this much faster than double clicking.

also probably why its 8 units per row.
 

Scrow

Still Tagged Accordingly
BrknGuitar said:
AI 6.0 is out? I haven't seen it anywhere. How long ago did they release it? Getting sick of beating 5.5 AI.
not sure how long it has been out, but i've been using it for many days.
 
darkpaladinmfc said:
Double click one of your SCVs and it should give you all the SCVs on your screen.

hard to trust this because it wont select SCVs inside geysers, and sometimes it could actually select a geyser SCV and you'd get the headcount wrong. plus with terran or zerg youll get drones/scv assigned to buildings which can throw off your estimate of how efficient your mineral intake is.

it is quicker though.
 
autobzooty said:
It's not always wise to send 3 workers to gas right off the bat. Depending on the build you're going for, it's sometimes better to have less than a full optimization of workers on a geyser when there's other things that are more important than gas early in the game.

That was the case in SC1, anyways. Not sure how much has changed in SC2.
It's the same here. In theory, you should always try to optimize harvester usage so that you're always as close to 0 minerals and gas as possible. However, for low level players, I would suggest against it.

To me, it's just high level players pushing unnecessary suggestions upon them. At non-high levels of play, one harvester mining gas over minerals uselessly is not an issue. I'd much rather have these players focus on stuff like macro/micro, which is much more important. Why worry about having one extra SCV/Probe/Drone on a geyser when you've got like 1000+ minerals and gas in the bank?
 

kiryogi

Banned
Hazaro said:
It is interesting to watch a good SC1 player fumble around with what to do in SC2.

Yeah, everyone kept telling him to make reactors instead of the massive barracks, but he had no idea. That said, he still held up and won in the end. It was a very fun watch.
 
good games tonight everyone... in that last game against GregLombardi (SturmLight) for some reason I thought he was going to be placed symmetrically from me... of course he wasn't and that fucked up my whole plan :lol.... still new to this :p
 

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
So true.
Just gotta work on spendin that money.

I watched Rice play a game where he had 800 minerals and 3000 gas late game.
Should have massed ghosts and used Snipe to kill everything.

1 Ghost made early game (Full energy) can kill 5 lings and a roach in around 1 second :D
kiryogi said:
Yeah, everyone kept telling him to make reactors instead of the massive barracks, but he had no idea. That said, he still held up and won in the end. It was a very fun watch.
Yeah his macro is still great even if he has no idea what do to. Just spam units and win :lol
 

bounchfx

Member
holy shit I don't understand. everyone plays this game the exact same. I've done about 12 matches so far and every single time, every person, without fail, rushes with zealot/marauder/roach. it's like the only way anyone plays. wtf? seriously, wtf?

that and I'm awful, because even if I attempt to do the same thing, and my build order is better to start, they wind up having 2x my units by the time they strike. goddam.

someone teach me wtf.

I miss the varied games though in SC1.. people actually did different shit. now everyone (so far) plays the same
 

aznpxdd

Member
bounchfx said:
holy shit I don't understand. everyone plays this game the exact same. I've done about 12 matches so far and every single time, every person, without fail, rushes with zealot/marauder/roach. it's like the only way anyone plays. wtf? seriously, wtf?

that and I'm awful, because even if I attempt to do the same thing, and my build order is better to start, they wind up having 2x my units by the time they strike. goddam.

someone teach me wtf.

I miss the varied games though in SC1.. people actually did different shit. now everyone (so far) plays the same

That's not true, lol. If you play 1v1 competitively, you pretty much have to follow the build against each particular race.
 

bounchfx

Member
aznpxdd said:
If you play 1v1 competitively,


sure don't!


I just had a game where I thought I was doing pretty good. was zerg, had a bunch of units. all of a sudden a shitload of zealots come, fast as lightning, destroy both my bases and everything in them in under 60 seconds. I tried to take them out with mutas, but there was just too many, and hydras destroyed my mutas in a second flat. it was just embarassing.


I'm Garde.bounchfx in the game if anyone wants to beat me. :( (or show me how to play)
 

-COOLIO-

The Everyman
bounchfx said:
holy shit I don't understand. everyone plays this game the exact same. I've done about 12 matches so far and every single time, every person, without fail, rushes with zealot/marauder/roach. it's like the only way anyone plays. wtf? seriously, wtf?

that and I'm awful, because even if I attempt to do the same thing, and my build order is better to start, they wind up having 2x my units by the time they strike. goddam.

someone teach me wtf.

I miss the varied games though in SC1.. people actually did different shit. now everyone (so far) plays the same

welcome to the first month of an rts
 

fugimax

Member
Just tried something a bit weird...

Started off the game by loading my SCVs into my main base and flying it over to a floating island. Did the same with my expansion leaving my opponent wondering: "WTF??"

Due to some muck-ups on my part, it was close ... but versus a Zerg that focuses heavy on ground (zerglings, etc.) it seems like it'd be hard to recover to be out of reach like that. Could have done way better had I put up some turrets and at least spit out a few marines to guard my main.

http://fugimax.com/replays/FugiMax is Missing.SC2Replay
 

Zzoram

Member
bounchfx said:
holy shit I don't understand. everyone plays this game the exact same. I've done about 12 matches so far and every single time, every person, without fail, rushes with zealot/marauder/roach. it's like the only way anyone plays. wtf? seriously, wtf?

that and I'm awful, because even if I attempt to do the same thing, and my build order is better to start, they wind up having 2x my units by the time they strike. goddam.

someone teach me wtf.

I miss the varied games though in SC1.. people actually did different shit. now everyone (so far) plays the same

Variety in strategy will come as the skill level rises. A lot of people are just experimenting right now, and if their experimental rushes keep winning, they won't try anything else until they start to lose.

Watch your replays and see what you are doing wrong. Pay particular attention to what your enemy is doing, and what weaknesses his build leaves open for you to exploit.
 

bounchfx

Member
Zzoram said:
Variety in strategy will come as the skill level rises. A lot of people are just experimenting right now, and if their experimental rushes keep winning, they won't try anything else until they start to lose.

Watch your replays and see what you are doing wrong. Pay particular attention to what your enemy is doing, and what weaknesses his build leaves open for you to exploit.

Oh! good idea. I forgot about watching the replays. I was just looking at build order.

you know, I'm sure I could beat people more often if I would harass them instead of taking my sweet ass time.

Maybe I should call them names.
 

Zzoram

Member
bounchfx said:
sure don't!


I just had a game where I thought I was doing pretty good. was zerg, had a bunch of units. all of a sudden a shitload of zealots come, fast as lightning, destroy both my bases and everything in them in under 60 seconds. I tried to take them out with mutas, but there was just too many, and hydras destroyed my mutas in a second flat. it was just embarassing.


I'm Garde.bounchfx in the game if anyone wants to beat me. :( (or show me how to play)

Ok, you're Zerg.

Step 1: Scout scout scout!

You shouldn't be surprised when his army starts marching, you should know about it in advance. Also, you should keep sacrificing single Zerglings into his army to get an idea of his unit composition and numbers. You should always make sure you have enough units to defend against his army, and the only way to do so is to scout and see what he has. Alternatively, if his army is too strong, make sure you have a group of 12 Zerglings hiding near his base (but not in the path between his base and yours). That way, if he moves out before you are ready, wait until his units are about mid-way between his base and yours, then use that group of Zerglings to attack him. He will likely pull back his army to deal with it, buying you more time to prepare your defense.

Step 2: Make sure you never have fewer bases than your enemy, and ideally always have 1 more base than your enemy.

If he's turtling, take another expansion, ideally one that is close to your base but far from his. Send lone Zerglings to every base on the map so you can tell when he is taking another base.

Step 3: Don't waste money by having it do nothing.

Either mass units (a mix of Zerglings/Roaches at first, add Hydras/Mutas later) or take expansions, but you should not let your minerals rise above 300 during the first 10 minutes of the game. It should only hit 300 when you're preparing to plant a new Hatchery to take an expansion.

Step 4: Harassment.

Harassment isn't just killing workers, it's anything that drains his attention or wastes his money on static defense. Doing something to annoy him isn't good if it messes up your own macro more than it messes up his, so be careful. Your goal is to make him build a bunch of Cannons in his base, because those can't be used to attack you, and because you can take more expansions while he's cowering in his base.

As Zerg, your priority upgrade is armor. Zealots kill Zerglings in 3 hits, but if the Zealots get +1 atk, they can kill Zerglings in 2 hits, dramatically weakening your army. You need +1 armor to make Zerglings die in 3 hits again.
 

Milabrega

Member
infinityBCRT said:
good games tonight everyone... in that last game against GregLombardi (SturmLight) for some reason I thought he was going to be placed symmetrically from me... of course he wasn't and that fucked up my whole plan :lol.... still new to this :p

I totally thought you had that match at first, Greg was tech'n to Banshee's rather slowly and you had a sizable ground force. But you didn't scout, and then slowly inched your way into a base that wasn't occupied, and when no one was there YOU RETURNED HOME :lol

I am growing sick of Roach Rush and MMM though. Sure you get the occasional Reaper harass that almost always fails. There isn't even a need to scout anymore. Unless of course its a Protoss player, then you know they have to play defensively and tech for something.
 

Bisonian

Member
Zzoram said:
Ok, you're Zerg.

<Great Zerg Tips here>

Thanks for the post. I've been trying to further my zerg game and these are some great fundamental tips to refresh on.

Now, if you can come up with a plan to reliably counter MMM from a terran player we can really get down to business! Against a good terran player, I'm just at a loss as soon as those medivacs come flying in, even if I know it's coming.

I recognize that I don't utilize banelings nearly as much I should (and thus not sure if they are effective there against attack moving ranged units), and I've never even built an infestor yet in beta. Maybe there are some options there I'm not aware of?
 

vitaflo

Member
For those waiting for the Mac client, this today from SC2Armory forum post:

Hello Alex,

The Starcraft 2 Beta for the Mac is slated for end of this month or more than likely the end of next month, but it's hard to tell the actual time frame, but it is coming.

Rad
Mac and PC Technical Specialist
Blizzard Entertainment
 

Scrow

Still Tagged Accordingly
Bisonian said:
Now, if you can come up with a plan to reliably counter MMM from a terran player we can really get down to business! Against a good terran player, I'm just at a loss as soon as those medivacs come flying in, even if I know it's coming.

I recognize that I don't utilize banelings nearly as much I should (and thus not sure if they are effective there against attack moving ranged units), and I've never even built an infestor yet in beta. Maybe there are some options there I'm not aware of?
ultralisks rip marines to shreds. :)

the splash damage on those kaiser blades is brutal to a mob of marines. the army will melt away.
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
vitaflo said:
For those waiting for the Mac client, this today from SC2Armory forum post:

It's planned for this month.
Which means it'll come out next month.
Which means we don't know when the fuck it's coming.

*thumbs up*
 

Apath

Member
Hm, I'm bootcamping on my Mac book. I guess I'll buy a copy of Starcraft 1 and start a new b.net account for a OSX beta profile.
 
Bisonian said:
Thanks for the post. I've been trying to further my zerg game and these are some great fundamental tips to refresh on.

Now, if you can come up with a plan to reliably counter MMM from a terran player we can really get down to business! Against a good terran player, I'm just at a loss as soon as those medivacs come flying in, even if I know it's coming.

I recognize that I don't utilize banelings nearly as much I should (and thus not sure if they are effective there against attack moving ranged units), and I've never even built an infestor yet in beta. Maybe there are some options there I'm not aware of?

Scrow said:
ultralisks rip marines to shreds. :)

the splash damage on those kaiser blades is brutal to a mob of marines. the army will melt away.

thats not really helpful though against mmm if mmm comes very early. A better suggestion would be to either try and bumrush his force from the side with an angry pack of banelings (with speed upgrade is NECESSARY) or just burrow even as low as 10 or less banelings at your choke, wait for him to come up with his mass of shit and explode while burrowed. also note they should be in a line to hit the entire force all at once. Instant mob death, mop up with a paltry counter force maybe also of banelings and then immediately attack his base.

Don't forget the only thing that would help him at that point is a raven, he likely wont be using a scan sweep on your choke. Note that even if I'm wrong about the previous sentence, then just burrow the lings somewhere else that he'll likely be walking past. Like a few feet in FRONT of the farther ramp that he'll definitely not scan. plus, the raven will usually hang back and wait for you to burrow roaches right in front of him anyway so you should absolutely still be able to pull of the explosion. You don't even have to explode them underground, just burrow them hiding outside of your nat and have a few force up top that they'll be busy with, come from behind with banelings as soon as the fight starts.

If you pull off the baneling explosion, which isnt hard at all, you're almost guaranteed to win if you have a medium sized force of anything. especially if you can even pull off a burrowed roach attack to get past his wall. extra points if you burrow two sets of banelings at both ramps to your base, detonate the one closest to your main first and as he retreats do the farther one.

edit: I should mention that I find it downright hilarious that I always have these involved and complicated strategies that I can name off the top of my head, then I go to play the game and somehow I always go for something stupid simple like straight teching to mutas while defending with a paltry amount of zerglings and I forgot to make a queen or something. Damn I suck.
 
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