Support NeoGAF

[Nzyme32]

Can someone remind me - is there a way to set user specific customisations?

So say I was going to play an FPS set up to use a trackball on the right tocuhpad, can I have all trackball FPS games auto set to a certain sensitivity, deadzone, size, weight, spin duration etc etc that I have predetermined by default, or does it have to be set manually per game?

 

[tim.mbp]

Got me email!!! FedEx on 10/10 from IL -> MA.

Can't wait to try out some platformers.

 

[catabarez]

Has anyone's controller actually shipped? Not just the shipping label being created.

 

[Jzero]

Everyone is getting it early. Might as well make the thread on the 10th.

Has anyone's controller actually shipped? Not just the shipping label being created.

Mine is just a label but shipping times are accurate 90% of the time, especially with fedex home delivery.

 

[Sorcerer]

Just got back from Gamestop and apparently they have no clue whats going on. The person who took my order had no idea what an Alienware Steam Machine even was.

Pre-ordered a Steam Machine and guess what I can pick it up next week on the 16th. That's according to my order online. I guess it could be false.

For those who need a controller soon, check your local store and see if they will get the controller in your hands on the 16th of this month.

Online ordering says controllers, links, machines ordered after a certain date will ship Nov 10th. So I am a bit puzzled. Perhaps the store got zero pre-orders in my area and I just got lucky?

 

[Nzyme32]

Everyone is getting it early. Might as well make the thread on the 10th.

I'm actually trying to avoid that since it isn't clear how many will actually have it that early to make the thread meaningful enough for everyone that ventures into it. If there are a significant amount of people using it and posting enough to make it thread worthy according to everyone else in the this thread, I'll put the thread up before the 15th.

 

[Astral/H3X]

I ordered like the first day or two, and I'm still waiting on it to say something other than "Shipping soon". :/

Purchased from Steam, no less.

 

[Putyouinmyoven]

Has anyone had any experience using the final version on a mac yet?

 

[Krejlooc]

Well, except for the mouse.

No, especially the mouse.

 

[Dr Dogg]

Devin updated his blog post:



http://devinandrewwhite.com/2015/07/07/everything-you-need-to-know-about-valves-steam-controller/


Also, I didn't mention, but in 8bit's stream we found out Valve removed the stick mouse option from the pads. It wasn't finished before that, the description was missing etc. It might return later.

Hey that could be pretty cool. You could do the Killzone 2 thing where you use the gyro to finesse you aiming but I guess with the advantage of having dual stage triggers you could set it the the first press engages the gyro so it's not always on and the the full press to take the shot. Fucking hurry up the 16th!

 

[Ark]

All these people with delivery dates and my Link & Controller are still just sat in the Netherlands

 

[Burger]

All these people with delivery dates and my Link & Controller are still just sat in the Netherlands

It's just a printed label. The stock will arrive in NL from wherever it's being made, i.e. China and then packaged and sent. It's just a logistical reality. If they shipped from the US we would need to pay taxes on top.

 

[Ark]

It's just a printed label. The stock will arrive in NL from wherever it's being made, i.e. China and then packaged and sent. It's just a logistical reality. If they shipped from the US we would need to pay taxes on top.

Ohh okay. I've waited this long, another eight days should be manageable.

 

[Spazznid]

Still no mail or shipment change US.

 

[c0Zm1c]

Well, except for the mouse. And all the keys.

I mean, I got a Steam controller preordered, but I very much doubt I'd enjoy playing RTS (or even competitive non-console-style FPS) on it.

No, especially the mouse.

I'll put it to the test when I get mine but I'm not convinced in the slightest that it's going to be a perfect alternative to playing with an actual mouse (and keyboard), especially for a twitch FPS game.

 

[Krejlooc]

all of these "It can never be as accurate as a mouse" posts sound exactly like "gamepads will never beat a fighting game stick" schlop people threw about for years

until someone did

I've laid out in extreme detail why this is just as good as a mouse. It is. Will it be as good as a mouse is for you? Maybe not, because you likely have 20+ years of experience holding a mouse in your hand. But, functionally, they are identical, and I would not be the least bit surprised if, eventually, someone who is more used to the steam controller than a standard mouse will eventually win tournaments.

 

[joshbob1985]

Really random question:

For the people getting Portal 2 free with their pre-order and playing it for the first time on the Steam controller, will the joke at the beginning where you are prompted to press "space bar" be spoiled?

 

[Krejlooc]

Really random question:

For the people getting Portal 2 free with their pre-order and playing it for the first time on the Steam controller, will the joke at the beginning where you are prompted to press "space bar" be spoiled?

Portal 2 has native mappings. It uses the actual button prompts on the controller. The joke works exactly the same as it does if you are using an xbox controller. It has an insane amount of configuration compared to other games - you can do things like change mappings per screen. It also has an option to play with motion controls:

 

[joshbob1985]

Nice! Thanks for your response. I regret replaying this earlier this year. I will have to do some community test chambers with the new controller.

 

[ashecitism]

Did they map "Use" to pad click or if you reach the edges?

 

[Zeknurn]

Krejlooc, any chance we could get a Battlefront video? Especially with flying because it feels pretty terrible with mouse and keyboard and people have said it works better with a controller.

 

[Krejlooc]

Did they map "Use" to pad click or if you reach the edges?

pad click

Krejlooc, any chance we could get a Battlefront video? Especially with flying because it feels pretty terrible with mouse and keyboard and people have said it works better with a controller.

It's in my download queue - something like 300 out of 500 at the moment. So eventually I'll get to it, but when? probably not until like next week at the very earliest.

 

[ashecitism]

What is the center black dot then? You have a line coming out of that. Always thought that meant pad click.

 

[Krejlooc]

What is the center black dot then? You have a line coming out of that. Always thought that meant pad click.

the center black dot doesn't mean anything. There aren't any lines pointing to it.

EDIT: Actually, I guess in that picture, it does have a line pointing to it. You can't edit it, however, and normally choosing camera controls doesn't have that. It's something unique to that one mapping. I dunno what it is supposed to be.

 

[Thoraxes]

Got me email!!! FedEx on 10/10 from IL -> MA.

Can't wait to try out some platformers.

Dang, it's coming from IL too? I should've hopped on the early train. I'd have had mine in a day.

 

[c0Zm1c]

all of these "It can never be as accurate as a mouse" posts sound exactly like "gamepads will never beat a fighting game stick" schlop people threw about for years

until someone did

I've laid out in extreme detail why this is just as good as a mouse. It is. Will it be as good as a mouse is for you? Maybe not, because you likely have 20+ years of experience holding a mouse in your hand. But, functionally, they are identical, and I would not be the least bit surprised if, eventually, someone who is more used to the steam controller than a standard mouse will eventually win tournaments.

Well I for one didn't say it can never be as accurate as a mouse! What I've become accustomed to is certainly a big factor and it's that difference in operation - the difference between moving a mouse around a large platform with my hand versus sliding my thumb around on a small touchpad - that makes me sceptical about it as an alternative control method, and not so much how they compare in functionality.

But then, I'm not getting it for use as a complete replacement for keyboard and mouse, more a go between - between keyboard and mouse, and conventional gamepad - for certain games that I think might benefit from the combined aspects of the two control types: I wasn't going to get the controller until very recently, when I started thinking about how I prefer to play action games such as The Witcher 3 and Shadow of Mordor with mouse (and keyboard) because of the speed and accuracy of control I have over the camera with it, but the idea of having something like, or approaching that, along with analog control for character movement is really appealing.

 

[joshbob1985]

I notice in the above image Valve have opted for movement on the stick rather than the left pad, is the stick generally considered to be better than using the pad for movement? I feel like I would be more comfortable with my thumbs symmetrical (possible just OCD). Sorry if this issue has already been covered in the thread.

 

[Krejlooc]

I notice in the above image Valve have opted for movement on the stick rather than the left pad, is the stick generally considered to be better than using the pad for movement? I feel like I would be more comfortable with my thumbs symmetrical (possible just OCD). Sorry if this issue has already been covered in the thread.

Think of the left pad as a d-pad. It's better for 2D movement, not nearly as well suited for 3D movement.

But, if you wish, there is nothing that would stop you from using the left pad instead. I use the left pad for fighting games and 2D platformers, and the analog stick for third person and first person shooters.

When it comes to things like Besiege, I wind up using both the left pad and the left stick to control the camera (along with the right pad, and left trigger, and pushing the button on the right pad), because you need to be able to do so many things at once. Cities Skyline has a similar setup.

 

[ashecitism]

the center black dot doesn't mean anything. There aren't any lines pointing to it.

EDIT: Actually, I guess in that picture, it does have a line pointing to it. You can't edit it, however, and normally choosing camera controls doesn't have that. It's something unique to that one mapping. I dunno what it is supposed to be.

I looked up some other config pics, that line was always there, and other parts also have a line coming out of their center.

With the stick it's click and I guess the same goes for the d-pad and the face buttons (they're probably just using the same image there like when you configure one of the pads as face buttons), but the mouse no idea then.

 

[Red]

I preordered within five minutes of sales going live and haven't heard a thing. But, I just saw I got a free copy of Rocket League. So I am happy.

 

[Nzyme32]

Well I for one didn't say it can never be as accurate as a mouse! What I've become accustomed to is certainly a big factor and it's that difference in operation - the difference between moving a mouse around a large platform with my hand versus sliding my thumb around on a small touchpad - that makes me sceptical about it as an alternative control method, and not so much how they compare in functionality.

But then, I'm not getting it for use as a complete replacement for keyboard and mouse, more a go between - between keyboard and mouse, and conventional gamepad - for certain games that I think might benefit from the combined aspects of the two control types: I wasn't going to get the controller until very recently, when I started thinking about how I prefer to play action games such as The Witcher 3 and Shadow of Mordor with mouse (and keyboard) because of the speed and accuracy of control I have over the camera with it, but the idea of having something like, or approaching that, along with analog control for character movement is really appealing.

The bolded really misrepresents the touch pads. They are simulating a trackball and all of its quirks, all of which are customisable unlike a real trackball mouse where you are likely stuck with the same size ball, weight, possible momentum etc. It opens the door to having an impossibly sized trackball simulated within the controller, with mass and momentum that probably are not very feasible in a physical product, but also without the issues trackballs used to have (grit, dirt, sweat causing issues / cleaning). Trackball mice can be competitive with actual mice, even without the surface area of a desk. Of course it would take time to adjust and whether you could be as competent or competitive with a mouse is debatable - in theory though it should be possible to be close to competitive with a mouse if you can get your head around the spinning mechanics.

 

[AwesomeMeat]

I preordered within five minutes of sales going live and haven't heard a thing. But, I just saw I got a free copy of Rocket League. So I am happy.

You should also have a giftable copy of Portal 2 .

I also ordered a right after it was announced and stuck on "Shipping Soon". I ordered the controller and link package so maybe that is different from the people that ordered just the controller.

 

[Unai]

The bolded really misrepresents the touch pads. They are simulating a trackball and all of its quirks, all of which are customisable unlike a real trackball mouse where you are likely stuck with the same size ball, weight, possible momentum etc. It opens the door to having an impossibly sized trackball simulated within the controller, with mass and momentum that probably are not very feasible in a physical product, but also without the issues trackballs used to have (grit, dirt, sweat causing issues / cleaning). Trackball mice can be competitive with actual mice, even without the surface area of a desk. Of course it would take time to adjust and whether you could be as competent or competitive with a mouse is debatable - in theory though it should be possible to be close to competitive with a mouse if you can get your head around the spinning mechanics.

I'm still very curious if in the end I'll prefer to use the right trackpad as a mouse or as a trackball.

 

[c0Zm1c]

The bolded really misrepresents the touch pads. They are simulating a trackball and all of its quirks, all of which are customisable unlike a real trackball mouse where you are likely stuck with the same size ball, weight, possible momentum etc. It opens the door to having an impossibly sized trackball simulated within the controller, with mass and momentum that probably are not very feasible in a physical product, but also without the issues trackballs used to have (grit, dirt, sweat causing issues / cleaning). Trackball mice can be competitive with actual mice, even without the surface area of a desk. Of course it would take time to adjust and whether you could be as competent or competitive with a mouse is debatable - in theory though it should be possible to be close to competitive with a mouse if you can get your head around the spinning mechanics.

I'm not sure how you think that misrepresents it, because that is exactly what I'll be doing with my thumb on the touch pad. Yeah, there is more to it than the touch pad on most other devices (because of the haptics) but I will still be "sliding my thumb around" on it.

But this is irrelevant to what I was talking about anyway, which was the difference between how it's used (with just the thumb) versus a mouse (the whole hand).

I'm still very curious if in the end I'll prefer to use the right trackpad as a mouse or as a trackball.

I get the feeling trackball will feel the more accurate for me, since I assume being able to feel something tangible would give some proper feedback.

 

[joshbob1985]

I'm still very curious if in the end I'll prefer to use the right trackpad as a mouse or as a trackball.

Do we know what is valve using in that Portal 2 configuration?

 

[Veal]

I just realized that we finally have a controller made for Katamari Damacy and we'll (probably) never get it. Just like we never got a Wii version. Unless an indie dev gets in there and makes one. Name it Ballfondlers.

 

[Nzyme32]

I'm not sure how you think that misrepresents it, because that is exactly what I'll be doing with my thumb on the touch pad. Yeah, there is more to it than the touch pad on most other devices (because of the haptics) but I will still be "sliding my thumb around" on it.

But this is irrelevant to what I was talking about anyway, which was the difference between how it's used (with just the thumb) versus a mouse (the whole hand).

My point is that a physical trackball mouse use the same "swiping around" mechanics, albeit with a more physical ball, and dependant on the trackball mouse you use, its size may determine if you use just a thumb or use all your fingers / hand as well. Like I said before, having trackball with properties that probably couldn't conform to a real physical trackball, in a controller of the Steam Controller's size to assist usability would make a big difference. This is particularly so if say you decide to use one of a simulated size bigger than the controller could take, and lighter than would be workable in a real trackball mouse, allowing for a much higher range of movement from spins from just a thumb. Trackball mice have been fairly comparable to mice for a long while

 

[c0Zm1c]

My point is that a physical trackball mouse use the same "swiping around" mechanics, albeit with a more physical ball, and dependant on the trackball mouse you use, its size may determine if you use just a thumb or use all your fingers / hand as well. Like I said before, having trackball with properties that probably couldn't conform to a real physical trackball, in a controller of the Steam Controller's size to assist usability would make a big difference. This is particularly so if say you decide to use one of a simulated size bigger than the controller could take, and lighter than would be workable in a real trackball mouse, allowing for a much higher range of movement from spins from just a thumb. Trackball mice have been fairly comparable to mice for a long while

Well okay, talking about your point rather than mine.. I would just like to say I've never used a trackball mouse before, but a trackball is something I've long felt would work well on a gamepad. So it, albeit a simulation of that mechanism, is something I'm looking forward to trying out with the Steam controller.

 

[Durante]

But, functionally, they are identical

I'm sorry, that's grade A bullshit.

With a mouse, the location of your hand is mapped to a cursor location. With the Steam controller, the location of your thumb is mapped to a cursor location. You have a lot more range and relative accuracy (as in movement/range) in positioning and moving your hand than in positioning and moving your thumb.

These are physical facts.

 

[c0Zm1c]

With a mouse, the location of your hand is mapped to a cursor location. With the Steam controller, the location of your thumb is mapped to a cursor location. You have a lot more range and relative accuracy (as in movement/range) in positioning and moving your hand than in positioning and moving your thumb.

These are physical facts.

This is more what I've been talking about. The differences in how you physically interact with the devices rather than what they can do.

 

[Nzyme32]

I'm sorry, that's grade A bullshit.

With a mouse, the location of your hand is mapped to a cursor location. With the Steam controller, the location of your thumb is mapped to a cursor location. You have a lot more range and relative accuracy (as in movement/range) in positioning and moving your hand than in positioning and moving your thumb.

These are physical facts.

I think the best way of thinking of this is points of articulation. With a mouse you can use your thumb, fingers, wrist, elbow and even your shoulder to a certain extent, all on a large surface area for input. With a trackball, you have your thumb only, but you also have the quirks of flicking a trackball around.

I doubt that the trackball operated by just a thumb would be fully competitive with a mouse user, but I think it can probably get close if someone was willing to put in the effort at getting to grips with the mechanics of a trackball and could choose a suitable size / mass simulated - I doubt it would be easy, but possible

 

[Durante]

I think the best way of thinking of this is points of articulation. With a mouse you can use your thumb, fingers, wrist, elbow and even your shoulder to a certain extent, all on a large surface area for input. With a trackball, you have your thumb only, but you also have the quirks of flicking a trackball around.

I doubt that the trackball operated by just a thumb would be fully competitive with a mouse user, but I think it can probably get close if someone was willing to put in the effort at getting to grips with the mechanics of a trackball and could choose a suitable size / mass simulated - I doubt it would be easy, but possible

I'm not disputing that.

I am saying that the mouse has a clear, measurable, physical, objective advantage.

 

[Krejlooc]

You have a lot more range and relative accuracy (as in movement/range) in positioning and moving your hand than in positioning and moving your thumb.

These are physical facts.

You have more range in moving your hand, but that doesn't come into play because we are limiting ourselves to a 2-dimensional plane. If you were arguing 3D mice, then yes, your wrist is much better at selecting a location than your thumb. Given a floating 2D plane? No, a prehensile thumb is just as accomplished.

Please show me this movement your wrist can do on a flat surface that your thumb cannot. And explain how this supposed mobility is so much greater than what your thumb offers that you'd be certain it would provide an automatic and constant competitive advantage.

But, functionally, they are identical

I'm sorry, that's grade A bullshit.

No, it isn't. The function of a track pad is definitely the same as the function of a mouse. They are interchangable between each other because they function the same way.

 

[duppolo]

i think cat wins over mouse

 

[Sorcerer]

I think the best way of thinking of this is points of articulation. With a mouse you can use your thumb, fingers, wrist, elbow and even your shoulder to a certain extent, all on a large surface area for input. With a trackball, you have your thumb only, but you also have the quirks of flicking a trackball around.

I doubt that the trackball operated by just a thumb would be fully competitive with a mouse user, but I think it can probably get close if someone was willing to put in the effort at getting to grips with the mechanics of a trackball and could choose a suitable size / mass simulated - I doubt it would be easy, but possible

I think I am going to have to agree with Nyzme here. A mouse user would destroy a trackball user who just used his thumb. I have a logitech MS70 that is operated by just a thumb and just no way. I also have a Kengsinton Slimblade witch uses about 3 fingers and also no way. Also as far as I know nobody ever uses a trackball in e-sports and I think that pretty much says it all.

 

[Krejlooc]

Also as far as I know nobody ever uses a trackball in e-sports and I think that pretty much says it all.

LOL player Kerp uses a trackball mouse.

 

[Sorcerer]

LOL player Kerp uses a trackball mouse.

I have to look him up. That's pretty fascinating. I assume he is an exception, are there others?

I just don't get how one can be competitive with the momentum of a track ball and only a thumb as opposed to using your wrist and just snapping to with a mouse.

This dude must have reflexes on a whole another level.

 

[HappenstanceUK]

Anyone from the EU received their controller yet? I got an email on the 1st Oct saying it was shipped and gave me a link to track it but that takes me to a foreign site that hasnt updated since the 1st

 

[Dead Prince]

i'm part of the late crew. only email i got was make sure my shipping address is right before october 20. D;

 

[Nzyme32]

i think cat wins over mouse

Yep. A man's input device.

I have to look him up. That's pretty fascinating. I assume he is an exception, are there others?

I just don't get how one can be competitive with the momentum of a track ball and only a thumb as opposed to using your wrist and just snapping to with a mouse.

This dude must have reflexes on a whole another level.

It's hard to call him an exception when trackballs are already barely prevalent, mostly down to the introduction of optical tracking in the 90s I think. That said, I feel that he probably is an exception to the vast majority of users. He demonstrates the possibility being there though

Anyone from the EU received their controller yet? I got an email on the 1st Oct saying it was shipped and gave me a link to track it but that takes me to a foreign site that hasnt updated since the 1st

Basically the controllers are in Europe, but won't get dispatched from there till a bit later. You'll get it prior to the 16th though, if others are to be believed.

i'm part of the late crew. only email i got was make sure my shipping address is right before october 20. D;

Yeah your probably in the November 10th group then, but you might still get it a day or two earlier assuming they have the same dispatch process.