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[Jason's Ultimatum]

God damn my friend at work has been playing the stock market for 10 years, and he's made over 100K. Not sure if that's good or not, but then again he's not some super rich dude who can gamble more money. He's only 32, too.

I need to get into this stock market game.

 

[Rubenov]

I dont short. Im waiting to buy again. I bought October 2008 and it worked out real well. Its time to buy at the bottom again.

Bottom was October 4th, 2011.

 

[Rubenov]

God damn my friend at work has been playing the stock market for 10 years, and he's made over 100K. Not sure if that's good or not, but then again he's not some super rich dude who can gamble more money. He's only 32, too.

I need to get into this stock market game.

That's pretty good. It's not that difficult once you get an understanding of it. If you have some modicum of intelligence, you will do well.

Mistakes will happen (me buying Netflix, LOL), but overall results should be satisfactory. Great learning experience and beats a savings account... by a lot.

Quick question...

What online trader is considered the 'best'? I've been eyeballing a few stocks for a while now and I'm looking to get active soon. Right now, i am leaning towards etrade. Anyone got any personal experience to share?

I use etrade, its interface and options are great but trades are expensive (9.95). There are cheaper options out there... I've heard good things about TDAmeritrade and Zecco.

 

[jamesinclair]

Bottom was October 4th, 2011.

I disagree.

But if anyone really knew when the bottom was, theyd be very rich

 

[Ether_Snake]

Still wondering what to do with STP. Either I sit on my losses and wait (-86%), or add a lot hoping for strong upward movement eventually to cut my losses. Doubt I'll ever make a profit on this, but I can't imagine selling. Solar are highly volatile, but I don't think STP would disappear outright. If anything the current period would push them to be more innovative to turn a profit in the difficult times. If the economy eventually picks up again, maybe it could be a good stock. I don't mind holding it for a very long time, but I'm wondering if I should add or not to reduce my losses, cause I might not get this kind of opportunity with this stock again.

 

[Piecake]

Still wondering what to do with STP. Either I sit on my losses and wait (-86%), or add a lot hoping for strong upward movement eventually to cut my losses. Doubt I'll ever make a profit on this, but I can't imagine selling. Solar are highly volatile, but I don't think STP would disappear outright. If anything the current period would push them to be more innovative to turn a profit in the difficult times. If the economy eventually picks up again, maybe it could be a good stock. I don't mind holding it for a very long time, but I'm wondering if I should add or not to reduce my losses, cause I might not get this kind of opportunity with this stock again.

Well, if I were you, I would just hold onto it and not put any more money into it until I actually get a profit on it, or writing it off my loses actually makes sense. Of course, I am a rather cheap and conservative investor, so take that for what you will.

I also don't have much faith in solar power. Just seems too risky to me considering that I dont think a bump in our economy will necessarily mean a bump in STP stock as well

 

[Karak]

Been a damn good month. 120.00+ a day or more. A little stressful a couple days ago when I switched from Ameritrade to OptionsHouse, tired of paying Ameritrade rates and cost for trading margin.

Did the move on the wrong day and could have made 360.00. Fuck I guess if I am not losing I should be happy.

Anyone have experience with OptionsHouse? My friends father uses it and loves it but that's just one person.

 

[RumblingRosco]

Still wondering what to do with STP. Either I sit on my losses and wait (-86%), or add a lot hoping for strong upward movement eventually to cut my losses. Doubt I'll ever make a profit on this, but I can't imagine selling. Solar are highly volatile, but I don't think STP would disappear outright. If anything the current period would push them to be more innovative to turn a profit in the difficult times. If the economy eventually picks up again, maybe it could be a good stock. I don't mind holding it for a very long time, but I'm wondering if I should add or not to reduce my losses, cause I might not get this kind of opportunity with this stock again.

I always break this situation down as so... imagine you owned zero shares in STP at this point (and never owned them at any point prior). Would you buy shares now? If yes, then you should consider adding more... if no, then you should not add more or perhaps just sell outright and eat the loss.

I'd hold if I were you, but that's mostly speaking out of my ass because I know little about STP.

 

[kathode]

God damn my friend at work has been playing the stock market for 10 years, and he's made over 100K. Not sure if that's good or not, but then again he's not some super rich dude who can gamble more money. He's only 32, too.

I need to get into this stock market game.

Ask him how much he's lost along the way

 

[Ether_Snake]

I always break this situation down as so... imagine you owned zero shares in STP at this point (and never owned them at any point prior). Would you buy shares now? If yes, then you should consider adding more... if no, then you should not add more or perhaps just sell outright and eat the loss.

I'd hold if I were you, but that's mostly speaking out of my ass because I know little about STP.

Yeah taking that approach, no I wouldn't buy it or any solar stocks. I bought it a long time ago when I was still quite green. It's the only stock I still own from that time.

I guess I'll just keep it there, and hope for it to go up eventually enough to just sell it. But down 86%, there is no point in even selling at this price.

 

[Zyzyxxz]

Just to pimp trade king some more, you defintiely arent restricted. Zero minimums, no fees on anything, no trade restrictions, no nothing and can trade stocks, mutual funds, etfs, shorts, options, etc, basically everyhing. You can deposit money from your bank and into your account and leave it there for however long you want with no fees or penalties so that when you see a good stock deal you can get it

Thanks for the tip, if it looks good I'll move my account from etrade over.

Do you know about their margin trading accounts and how are they?

 

[Piecake]

Thanks for the tip, if it looks good I'll move my account from etrade over.

Do you know about their margin trading accounts and how are they?

I dont bother with margin accounts, but I found the rates for you. There is also a FAQ for margin accounts if you want more details

https://www.tradeking.com/rates/margin

Oh, like I said previously, if you are interested, I can refer you and we will both get 50 bucks out of the deal. PM me if youre interested

 

[Ether_Snake]

Oh yeah, I'm gonna be #2 by the end of the day on the Investopedia game!

edit: ADSK up 8%.

STP up 30%, lol......

 

[Rubenov]

Oh yeah, I'm gonna be #2 by the end of the day on the Investopedia game!

edit: ADSK up 8%.

STP up 30%, lol......

Yeah, HUGE day for solars. If we can keep up this rally (with less force of course) you may be able to recover.

My Netflix loss was improved by ~2% today (Still down 35%, lol).

I'm also losing big on some TVIX I bought as a hedge in case things went south at the Euro meeting. Not concerned there as there will always be a "doomsday" scenario in the distant future that will drive volatility and TVIX up. It has tripled since June in spite of today.

 

[Roofy]

so over the past week I've sold SNDK at 50.89 (bought at 45) and purchased NFLX at 74.83 (going to ride up to 90, hopefully!), AMZN at 232 which sort of hurt and TTWO at 14.98

lets see how things go!

 

[Rubenov]

so over the past week I've sold SNDK at 50.89 (bought at 45) and purchased NFLX at 74.83 (going to ride up to 90, hopefully!), AMZN at 232 which sort of hurt and TTWO at 14.98

lets see how things go!

Good luck! I think Netflix should be able to hit 90 no prob, as long as we don't get more surprises from Europe. The selloff was overdone, in my view.

AMZN... yeah, you bought at the top which is never a good idea. Good thing is, you should be sitting on profits in ~3 weeks or less.

 

[Rubenov]

I disagree.

But if anyone really knew when the bottom was, theyd be very rich

James,

If you sit around waiting for a bottom, opportunity will pass by. Stocks are still cheap enough that you will make money; I would buy on a pullback day (s).

By Oct 4th the market was done selling off on what it thought was a guaranteed Greek default. Those fears have calmed significantly, as Greece's default has been pushed away for months if not years, and when it happens the ECB / ESFS is in place to bail everyone and their mothers out.

Since Oct 4th the indixes are up in the double digits, and they will continue to rally. Also, we are in the historically best season for stocks (November - January). The only ones not making money right now are perma-bears.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

So what do you guys think about DRIP? While I understand that reinvesting dividends is a Good Thing, I'm not completely sold on having it be so automatic. Sure, it saves you from needing to pay the standard transaction fee to get more shares, but you also have no control. It seems like if I had a short list of possibilities, I could then choose to spend on whichever is at a relative low compared to the others and be better off.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Yeah, HUGE day for solars. If we can keep up this rally (with less force of course) you may be able to recover.

My Netflix loss was improved by ~2% today (Still down 35%, lol).

I'm also losing big on some TVIX I bought as a hedge in case things went south at the Euro meeting. Not concerned there as there will always be a "doomsday" scenario in the distant future that will drive volatility and TVIX up. It has tripled since June in spite of today.

The 30% rise today just sent me from -84% to -81%...

 

[Anno]

So what do you guys think about DRIP? While I understand that reinvesting dividends is a Good Thing, I'm not completely sold on having it be so automatic. Sure, it saves you from needing to pay the standard transaction fee to get more shares, but you also have no control. It seems like if I had a short list of possibilities, I could then choose to spend on whichever is at a relative low compared to the others and be better off.

To me it depends on how much you're actually getting in dividends. Right now I'm only brining in about $500/year. At that rate I'd need to wait at least 2 years to have a decent amount worth actually investing back into a position without paying a ton of fees. So until I can ramp up the size of my portfolio I have everything set to reinvest automatically.

 

[RumblingRosco]

So what do you guys think about DRIP? While I understand that reinvesting dividends is a Good Thing, I'm not completely sold on having it be so automatic. Sure, it saves you from needing to pay the standard transaction fee to get more shares, but you also have no control. It seems like if I had a short list of possibilities, I could then choose to spend on whichever is at a relative low compared to the others and be better off.

I think they are very good, but ultimately boring. I always auto-reinvest dividends from my mutual funds, but from stocks, I collect enough every year that I can purchase another stock or two"for free" so I quite enjoy that.

 

[Rubenov]

I was getting ~20% in dividend yield from a single stock - AGNC (Mortgage REIT). It is a sweet deal, but sold it last night after they announced the issuance of millions of more shares, therefore diluting the stock price.

 

[CrankyJay]

Hoping the PANL earning's announcement next weak will push this stock back up above 60...I can't believe how volatile this stock is. I've seen a bunch of bullshit articles trashing this company in an effort to short this stock. How that shit isn't illegal is beyond me.

 

[Rubenov]

Hoping the PANL earning's announcement next weak will push this stock back up above 60...I can't believe how volatile this stock is. I've seen a bunch of bullshit articles trashing this company in an effort to short this stock. How that shit isn't illegal is beyond me.

60 is close to its 52-week high... but seems like it will get there easily if it reports positive earnings per share, and we don't get more surprises from Yurop.

Also, I dislike how short sellers can sometimes get so vocal in bashing companies. They can't take losing money everyday and tro to force people to sell so they can profit. Not nice. If I need to go short I use ETFs.

 

[CrankyJay]

60 is close to its 52-week high... but seems like it will get there easily if it reports positive earnings per share, and we don't get more surprises from Yurop.

I'm long on this one, so either way I'll be sticking with it. I think OLED will dominate the market in the coming years. Hoping some TV mfg's start rolling some OLED tv's out in the coming year or next, phones, tablets, and obviously lighting as cost to produce goes down.

edit: Just noticed in my previous post I said "next weak"...hope that's not foreshadowing anything. Heh.

 

[Anno]

Adding to my position in LMT is beginning to look attractive. 5.3% yield that has increased over 20% for the last 5 years, increased guidance on their last earnings call, all sorts of good signs. The only thing I can think of is a hit if the super committee garbage doesn't work and the $600 million of defense cuts go through. I don't see them scrapping the F35 at this point, though, and they're slowly beginning to export more anyway. Hmmm...

 

[Rubenov]

^^I just took a look at LMT, and it just received a flurry of downgrades. Likely influenced by this, it ended the day on a negative note, when nine out of ten stocks (approximately) ended positive. Headwinds from defense cuts also are likely to intensify. IMO (take it with a grain of salt!), there are better stocks out there to put your money into.

 

[Anno]

^^I just took a look at LMT, and it just received a flurry of downgrades. Likely influenced by this, it ended the day on a negative note, when nine out of ten stocks (approximately) ended positive. Headwinds from defense cuts also are likely to intensify. IMO (take it with a grain of salt!), there are better stocks out there to put your money into.

The downgrades seem to be entirely speculative though. Looking at what the company said during the last earnings call as well as their recent dividend increase I can only assume that they're far more bullish on their future success. With such a high yield it seems like a good stock to own while waiting for Wall St to come around. I guess that's the risk in this, though.

 

[TylerD]

I am pissed that I have 15k in a 401k left over from a company buyout that I can't get at right now. We can't contribute anything else to it and all I can do is move the money around to the 15 different funds that we have in the plan. This buyout was finalized at the end of 2009 and we are told every time someone inquires about it that the IRS still hasn't approved the close of the account so we can take the money with no penalty or roll it into another retirement account.

The only people that have been able to do anything with it are those that have left the company.

I would LOVE to have that right now. :/

 

[dpatel304]

God I'm so pissed that I invested in Netflix when it was $230 a share. Worst decision ever.

 

[Javaman]

I am pissed that I have 15k in a 401k left over from a company buyout that I can't get at right now. We can't contribute anything else to it and all I can do is move the money around to the 15 different funds that we have in the plan. This buyout was finalized at the end of 2009 and we are told every time someone inquires about it that the IRS still hasn't approved the close of the account so we can take the money with no penalty or roll it into another retirement account.

The only people that have been able to do anything with it are those that have left the company.

I would LOVE to have that right now. :/

The only thing you can do without penalty is to roll it over into another account. There's no way to access the money directly without paying a 10% penalty and the money being treated as income. The account closing doesn't mean you can get around the penalties.

 

[Rubenov]

God I'm so pissed that I invested in Netflix when it was $230 a share. Worst decision ever.

Yep, this shit can be so hard sometimes. After my Netflix debacle, even though I lost a lot less than you, I'm waaaayyy more careful on where I put my money. NOt only do I have to know the company well, but I have to be almost completely sure risk of a Netflix-esque debacle is almost nil.

 

[mastershake]

At first i was going to actively trade but i think i rather put my money in a good dividend stock while i research a lot more. I'm looking at VNR right now... anyone got some insight/advice/words of caution?

 

[Rubenov]

At first i was going to actively trade but i think i rather put my money in a good dividend stock while i research a lot more. I'm looking at VNR right now... anyone got some insight/advice/words of caution?

Don't know, things are bad right now that Greece threw a curveball to the world markets. Stocks now are low, but if you buy now make sure it is for the long haul as things can get worse than they are right now.

TIP: When researching stocks, worry about BOTH dividend yield AND principal appreciation (stock growth). In many cases it might be better to choose a stock with a lesser dividend that has room to grow than a stock with a higher yield but that is already maxed out.

Energy companies (Exxon Mobil - XOM, Conoco Phillips - COP) could be good starting points. Good dividends and oil will continue to increase in price long term.

Edit: Also, Eaton (ETN) and Aflac (AFL) are strong companies and dividend payers. I spent a lot of time researching them, and recently they beat their earnings estimates and future guidance. ETN goes ex-divi this Friday. I would stay away from ~20% dividend Mortgage REITS such as Annaly (NLY) and American Capital Agency (AGNC). Possible Fed intervention is killing those stocks.

 

[Piecake]

At first i was going to actively trade but i think i rather put my money in a good dividend stock while i research a lot more. I'm looking at VNR right now... anyone got some insight/advice/words of caution?

Personally, i am going to wait it out some more since I think its going to fall quite a bit further. If you want to get in and are unsure what to invest your money in, I say go with ETFs.

Best way to get diversified and I am a big proponent of putting the vast majority of your investment money into two etfs - total US stock index and total world stock index. Great if youre investing long term too since mutual funds and etfs rarely beat the indexes and those two indexes right there have insanely insanely cheap expense ratios. Also, its just nice investing and not having to worry about it constantly.

 

[mastershake]

Don't know, things are bad right now that Greece threw a curveball to the world markets. Stocks now are low, but if you buy now make sure it is for the long haul as things can get worse than they are right now.

TIP: When researching stocks, worry about BOTH dividend yield AND principal appreciation (stock growth). In many cases it might be better to choose a stock with a lesser dividend that has room to grow than a stock with a higher yield but that is already maxed out.

Energy companies (Exxon Mobil - XOM, Conoco Phillips - COP) could be good starting points. Good dividends and oil will continue to increase in price long term.

Edit: Also, Eaton (ETN) and Aflac (AFL) are strong companies and dividend payers. I spent a lot of time researching them, and recently they beat their earnings estimates and future guidance. ETN goes ex-divi this Friday. I would stay away from ~20% dividend Mortgage REITS such as Annaly (NLY) and American Capital Agency (AGNC). Possible Fed intervention is killing those stocks.

Yeah, the Greece snafu is making me nervous to invest right now. Thats why i wanted to find a good paying dividend stock and sit on it for a while. I'm not experienced enough to play in these troubled waters

Looking at the energy companies you suggested i started looking around for other companies. What do you think of GE or NOK? Both offer good dividends(especially NOK) and have potential for decent growth though they are both atleast a little bit risky(especially NOK). Just curious for discussion sake...

Personally, i am going to wait it out some more since I think its going to fall quite a bit further. If you want to get in and are unsure what to invest your money in, I say go with ETFs.

Best way to get diversified and I am a big proponent of putting the vast majority of your investment money into two etfs - total US stock index and total world stock index. Great if youre investing long term too since mutual funds and etfs rarely beat the indexes and those two indexes right there have insanely insanely cheap expense ratios. Also, its just nice investing and not having to worry about it constantly.

I agree, i think the market will fall quite a bit further as well but i dont want to perpetually wait around for the 'bottom', and end up missing out. I can always double up on my position if there is another 'bottom'.

btw TradeKing is annoying me right now. Mainly just because i am incredibly impatient. I had to jump through hoops to link my bank to them so i can transfer funds(which still isnt approved yet) and then they said my first transfer will have a 3 business day wait period. I signed up with TD Ameritrade as well. They let me fund my account the same day and so far i am liking what I'm seeing. I wonder if i should just keep both? hmmm...

 

[Fatghost]

Greece move is just noise. I'm staying 100% long quality North American blue chips.


Collect my 5.12% yield on cost and relax while the world goes nuts in the short-medium term.

Long term, the lights will stay on, people will still go to work, things will be made, sold and thrown out, energy will be used, food will be eaten, clothing will be worn, iPhones will be bought, data will move along networks, kids will scrape their knees and use band-aids, people will use credit cards and need mortgages and car loans, etc.

 

[Piecake]

I agree, i think the market will fall quite a bit further as well but i dont want to perpetually wait around for the 'bottom', and end up missing out. I can always double up on my position if there is another 'bottom'.

btw TradeKing is annoying me right now. Mainly just because i am incredibly impatient. I had to jump through hoops to link my bank to them so i can transfer funds(which still isnt approved yet) and then they said my first transfer will have a 3 business day wait period. I signed up with TD Ameritrade as well. They let me fund my account the same day and so far i am liking what I'm seeing. I wonder if i should just keep both? hmmm...

Hmm, i didnt have the bank problem (shit like that really annoys me as well though), but yea, that 3 day thing is standard when you first fund your account.

As for when Ill go in, ill probably invest some around the 10800 mark and then just continuously feed those index stocks as the market drops.

The most depressing forecast Ive read is that the S&P will hit 950 in april, so my 10800 benchmark might lower depending on how things are going

 

[Ether_Snake]

Dudeworld you're making a killing with gluu in the investopedia game!

 

[Rubenov]

Yeah, the Greece snafu is making me nervous to invest right now. Thats why i wanted to find a good paying dividend stock and sit on it for a while. I'm not experienced enough to play in these troubled waters

Looking at the energy companies you suggested i started looking around for other companies. What do you think of GE or NOK? Both offer good dividends(especially NOK) and have potential for decent growth though they are both atleast a little bit risky(especially NOK). Just curious for discussion sake...




I agree, i think the market will fall quite a bit further as well but i dont want to perpetually wait around for the 'bottom', and end up missing out. I can always double up on my position if there is another 'bottom'.

GE is decent, and since it has been around forever it is pretty safe. Of concern, however, is its high levels of debt. But it doesn't seem to have affected the company or stock at all.

As far as NOK, I remember hearing a lot of negative info on the company recently. It has a nice dividend, but I'm not sure they will be able to maintain it especially late next year. Lots of cutthroat competition on their field and they aren't the best at what they do. Utilities, such as SO and AT, pay nice dividends and are able to whitstand turbulent times better than other stocks. AT pays over a 7% dividend monthly, which is good for people that like immediate gratification such as myself.

As far as markets tops or bottoms, nobody in this world knows.

 

[dudeworld]

Dudeworld you're making a killing with gluu in the investopedia game!

I've figured out a pattern

 

[Rubenov]

I've figured out a pattern

PM the pattern to a fellow gaffer?? Earnings tomorrow btw.

 

[Anno]

Yeah, the Greece snafu is making me nervous to invest right now. Thats why i wanted to find a good paying dividend stock and sit on it for a while. I'm not experienced enough to play in these troubled waters

Looking at the energy companies you suggested i started looking around for other companies. What do you think of GE or NOK? Both offer good dividends(especially NOK) and have potential for decent growth though they are both atleast a little bit risky(especially NOK). Just curious for discussion sake...

As a dividend investor I look for companies that not only pay dividends but grow them regularly and likely will be able to continue to do so in the future. NOK (despite my love of WP7) seems very speculative from a dividend perspective. GE seems much more solid (and I do own it), recently increasing their dividend several times and committing to more in the future. Since they've paid back their obligation to Buffett I think they'll be able to put that towards common dividends in the future. Something similar should happen when GE Capital starts paying dividends back to the parent company as well.

I'd suggest looking for companies in the Dividend Aristocrat and Dividend Achievers index as a starting point. Those are companies that have increased their dividends every year, sometimes for more than 50 years in a row. Look into those companies as much as you can and decide what you think is at a good value. With the current pullback I have Chevron, Honeywell, Teva and Proctor & Gamble on my short list. Maybe Clorox, too. I'd like to get into VF Corp if they would pull back substantially as well.

 

[Rubenov]

By the way guys, seem like we are going down deep in the red tomorrow, at least according to futures.

Referendums, fuck yeah!

 

[mastershake]

GE is decent, and since it has been around forever it is pretty safe. Of concern, however, is its high levels of debt. But it doesn't seem to have affected the company or stock at all.

As far as NOK, I remember hearing a lot of negative info on the company recently. It has a nice dividend, but I'm not sure they will be able to maintain it especially late next year. Lots of cutthroat competition on their field and they aren't the best at what they do. Utilities, such as SO and AT, pay nice dividends and are able to whitstand turbulent times better than other stocks. AT pays over a 7% dividend monthly, which is good for people that like immediate gratification such as myself.

As far as markets tops or bottoms, nobody in this world knows.

Yeah, i was looking at GE as a safer bet but i think NOK has a lot of potential. More on that later.

Thanks for the heads up on AT and SO!

As a dividend investor I look for companies that not only pay dividends but grow them regularly and likely will be able to continue to do so in the future. NOK (despite my love of WP7) seems very speculative from a dividend perspective. GE seems much more solid (and I do own it), recently increasing their dividend several times and committing to more in the future. Since they've paid back their obligation to Buffett I think they'll be able to put that towards common dividends in the future. Something similar should happen when GE Capital starts paying dividends back to the parent company as well.

I'd suggest looking for companies in the Dividend Aristocrat and Dividend Achievers index as a starting point. Those are companies that have increased their dividends every year, sometimes for more than 50 years in a row. Look into those companies as much as you can and decide what you think is at a good value. With the current pullback I have Chevron, Honeywell, Teva and Proctor & Gamble on my short list. Maybe Clorox, too. I'd like to get into VF Corp if they would pull back substantially as well.

I think Nokia has a lot of potential because of WP7. Nokia is now, and has been for the longest time, a quality hand set maker. They just got completely left in the dust on the OS side of the house when iOS and Android took over. WP7 instantly makes them competitive again. Also, i think Microsoft really needs this as well. There arent too many other handset makers that are giving WP7 that much love. It's pretty much a two horse race right now and we all know Microsoft wants a piece of the pie. They can't get left behind. I guess thats why im so optimistic on them - you have two big companies that can't afford to get left behind. Then again, maybe im just falling in love with a stock? lol

 

[Anno]

Yeah, i was looking at GE as a safer bet but i think NOK has a lot of potential. More on that later.

Thanks for the heads up on AT and SO!



I think Nokia has a lot of potential because of WP7. Nokia is now, and has been for the longest time, a quality hand set maker. They just got completely left in the dust on the OS side of the house when iOS and Android took over. WP7 instantly makes them competitive again. Also, i think Microsoft really needs this as well. There arent too many other handset makers that are giving WP7 that much love. It's pretty much a two horse race right now and we all know Microsoft wants a piece of the pie. They can't get left behind. I guess thats why im so optimistic on them - you have two big companies that can't afford to get left behind. Then again, maybe im just falling in love with a stock? lol

I just think there are safer investments than a handset maker who's effectively all-in on an OS that has a long, uphill climb, even if I think it will eventually break through and be the de-facto third option, up there with iOS and Android. Especially one that's so levered to the EU.Even then there's no guarantee that Nokia will be the primary beneficiary.

That said, I do think NOK is probably undervalued and could potentially provide some upside in the future, I just think there are safer plays with far wider moats out there. Ones that aren't as subject to currency fluctuations and provide stronger regulatory filings as they are local. Ultimately I just think that companies that own finite resources like oil or produce patent-protected products like drugs or cola syrup have more of a future than a manufacturer of what will eventually become a commoditized product, no matter how beautiful it is. I'd feel the same way about something like Intel were it not for their burgeoning server and software portfolios and their absolute dominance in their industry. Nokia has far more competition.

I'd keep an eye out for cash flow in the following quarters before I got behind Nokia. For the last twelve months they've paid out roughly 80% of their free cash flow as dividends - a rate that just isn't sustainable for a company that isn't a REIT or MLP unless they have a big increase in the future. Even operating cash flow is down about 50% from the previous 12 months, so it's not just an increase in capital expenditures.

 

[Ether_Snake]

By the way guys, seem like we are going down deep in the red tomorrow, at least according to futures.

Referendums, fuck yeah!

Oh yeah I just checked, all markets in Asia are down 2%+

 

[CrankyJay]

Hah, PANL dropped another few dollars to 41.50 so I bought another 20 shares. God what am I doing? Earnings announcement next Tuesday.

 

[Ether_Snake]

THQI up 14%. I have little confidence over the long term, but it was expected they would be on a better track than a year or two ago.

 

[CFMOORE!]

THQI up 14%. I have little confidence over the long term, but it was expected they would be on a better track than a year or two ago.

i am sad i only bought 75 shares a couple months back. bought in at 1.85 and then it dipped to like 1.60 or something several weeks back i thought about buying another 100 but never did. i am just starting out so i have been timid about buying up large quantities. if only i bought a few thousand shares like i could have!