SenorArdilla
Member
Ike can act out of his Side-B in the air? That's big news.
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Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U DLC |OT2| Lucas comes out of Nowhere!
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
NamikazeBurst
Member
Ike still goes into free fall after side-B.
Smash tourney today FYI: https://www.twitch.tv/smashstudios
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
Ike could always act out of side-B on hit, not only being able to up-B but jump as well. This is nothing new.
Man, I'm rusty as hell. I even got beaten in a Pac ditto when my opponent was only spamming keys and hydrants the whole time...
I guess having played lots of Bayo and Cloud and not too much Pac-Man last time I played also got me used to better range and priority on my aerials, so I kept making dumb mistakes.
I guess having played lots of Bayo and Cloud and not too much Pac-Man last time I played also got me used to better range and priority on my aerials, so I kept making dumb mistakes.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Only if you manage to hit your opponent with Side B.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
We mostly do our matchmaking on the discord now. I'm sure someone can provide a link, I'm on mobile right now so I can't.
entremet
Member
I do but mostly randoms since I don't have a wired connection. I doubt most players here would tolerate my setup lol.
I've played some people with a non-wired connection from all the way south in Argentina and it hasn't been all that bad (but depends on who I'm playing against), so chances are you aren't going to get a much worse outcome that mine unless you also live far away from your opponents and your wi-fi's even worse than mine.
D
Deleted member 125677
Unconfirmed Member
Is Zelda actually good now?
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
She still have a lot of issues so she's not going anywhere. Mewtwo, Samus and Charizard really got best buffs out of this update.
Wyndstryker
Member
Better, definitely gotten some new things going with the buffs but she's not going to leave bottom group of tiers anytime soon. But does have a chance at leaving lowest tier.
But those new things going for her does go a long away when you're a Zelda main trying to take anything.
Zelda won't be good unless they change her specials. Phantom Slash is decent but Zelda should be able to keep the charge like most other chargeable specials do. Din's Fire could be decent if it could be used in the air without going into freefall. Teleport is good barring ledge shenanigans.
Wyndstryker
Member
Phantom Slash is an edge guard or mid range hitter. Easily best thing there for mixing things up with Zelda. Especially on the edge guard. Being obvious doesn't stop windbox shenanigans from a guaranteed kill.
Din's Fire is stupidly situational but does have some uses. No freefall din's fire would definitely help, and can't really see how it can be broken.
Teleport is teleport, self explanitory.
The buffed up Nayru's goes a long way now. Before a lot of things just trade but now it beats many things and is completely immune to a whole bunch of stuff now.
I think any Zelda main learns how to just deal with horrible specials. As much as I would love holding charge with Phantom it would have to be heavily tweaked in order for it to be balanced, after which it won't even be the same move. Else Zelda will win the offstage 100% as the size and windbox of phantom will literally deny ALL recoveries. If anyone was knocked any decent distance, the Zelda just needs to jump off, line themselves up and fire the full charge phantom. Airdodge ain't gonna help, most recovery moves won't help.
We're talking worse than Rosa absorbing PK Thunder's level of broken, but for the whole cast. Now if you want Zelda to be bumped up to broken tier then sure.
Of course Zelda's pretty bad that giving a holdable phantom will bump her up that much. But it's way too reliably broken. It's bad enough it can gimp quite a few recoveries already in it's current state.
Main issue with Zelda though is frame data. Good special's won't help too much if she can't even get a chance to do anything. Zelda players right now play the biggest mindgame out there.
I can go on a rant about Zelda, but hey I still main her lol. Zelda will always be the true S-tier. Struggle Tier. It's either she's gonna wipe the floor or she's getting wiped. There's no middle.
Din's Fire is stupidly situational but does have some uses. No freefall din's fire would definitely help, and can't really see how it can be broken.
Teleport is teleport, self explanitory.
The buffed up Nayru's goes a long way now. Before a lot of things just trade but now it beats many things and is completely immune to a whole bunch of stuff now.
I think any Zelda main learns how to just deal with horrible specials. As much as I would love holding charge with Phantom it would have to be heavily tweaked in order for it to be balanced, after which it won't even be the same move. Else Zelda will win the offstage 100% as the size and windbox of phantom will literally deny ALL recoveries. If anyone was knocked any decent distance, the Zelda just needs to jump off, line themselves up and fire the full charge phantom. Airdodge ain't gonna help, most recovery moves won't help.
We're talking worse than Rosa absorbing PK Thunder's level of broken, but for the whole cast. Now if you want Zelda to be bumped up to broken tier then sure.
Of course Zelda's pretty bad that giving a holdable phantom will bump her up that much. But it's way too reliably broken. It's bad enough it can gimp quite a few recoveries already in it's current state.
Main issue with Zelda though is frame data. Good special's won't help too much if she can't even get a chance to do anything. Zelda players right now play the biggest mindgame out there.
I can go on a rant about Zelda, but hey I still main her lol. Zelda will always be the true S-tier. Struggle Tier. It's either she's gonna wipe the floor or she's getting wiped. There's no middle.
A Zelda recently took 9th at a fairly stacked regional, which is the highest tournament placing she's ever gotten.
I'd still hesitate to call her "good" now, but winning with her is more of a possibility now.
Well she's also a completely unknown match-up for many players.
Yeah, it's the same reason I don't think I can say I'm a really good Pac-Man, but rather that match-up inexperience might swing things heavily in my favor. People repeatedly getting hosed by oranges on get-up, whacked by dropped hydrants, flung off-course by their water jets and getting put in special fall or whiffing approaches due to my trampolines are really common. I've got to remember fair doesn't give me much of a frame advantage though, since I keep trying to link them together and eating random attacks. Empty jumps into trampolines are a nice mix-up compared to how I always used to unsafely short-hop nair into shields, though.
Earlier today I played a decent opponent and we eventually started rotating our character picks. I was having lots of trouble as Roy against his Lucas and was at kill percent with him at 0% on his second stock, but then I managed to slow down and kept baiting unsafe moves from him while not leaving myself open in order to turn things around. Hopping all over my character roster is also interesting since I've got to keep track of which character I'm playing to avoid picking the wrong moves for a given situation (ie: Pac's nair works well for getting people off of my face, but Bayo/Cloud's... not so much).
Dimitri LH
Member
That's definitely the case, same reason is what helps me win a lot when I play as WFT in tourneys.
South American fella here..
I would like to play with some of the gaffers, is people still playing? I am a bit tired of for glory matches.. I main Zelda, Pac-man and Villager but I'm not pretty good.
Also, I don't know if there would be some lag problems seeing that I am currently in South America and most of you are in the US but I've been playing for glory the last few days and it's very decent.
I can play almost everyday starting at 18:00 (Eastern Time) I'll check this later or send me a pm, if there is a smash-gaf discord room that works too.
Thanks.
I would like to play with some of the gaffers, is people still playing? I am a bit tired of for glory matches.. I main Zelda, Pac-man and Villager but I'm not pretty good.
Also, I don't know if there would be some lag problems seeing that I am currently in South America and most of you are in the US but I've been playing for glory the last few days and it's very decent.
I can play almost everyday starting at 18:00 (Eastern Time) I'll check this later or send me a pm, if there is a smash-gaf discord room that works too.
Thanks.
I think as far as LatinSmashGAF goes it's only Boney, you and I. I tend to be able to play during the night (maaaybe starting at around 6 PM EST as well), so maybe we can set something up and play a couple games.
Sounds good.
Yesterday I couldn't make it but I'll be playing today around 18:30 EST for sure, let me know if you are up for some games.
my NNID is: fraaaanco
Has anyone posted this tech video yet?:
http://youtu.be/mH528Pdh1Rk
Not exactly new, but broken down in English and potential applications and optimization are shown.
http://youtu.be/mH528Pdh1Rk
Not exactly new, but broken down in English and potential applications and optimization are shown.
Dimitri LH
Member
Boney is Latin? I'm part of that group but I haven't been able to play online at all due to time, but by summer I should have all the time in the world, miss playing you guys.
Alright, I'll add you in case we can play later.
He's from the Chile AFAIK, and the only person on my friend list I get a good connection icon with.
We in LatAm tend to create NNIDs set in Alberta so we can purchase stuff on the eShop with international CCs at not retarded prices, mostly since the US eShop requires using a credit card issued by a US bank which is impossible to get for us, while the Canadian one doesn't have such restrictions in place.
NamikazeBurst
Member
Canadian prices are pretty retarded. You also left out the part of Alberta having the lowest tax rate in Canada.
LA prices are even worse, anyway. And yeah, Alberta's there for the low tax rates.
Blood Diamonds
Banned
So would increasing the hitbox on Zelda's fair and bair be a good change? Or would it make it too OP?
It's not only to avoid retarded prices, many (most? all?) LatAm countries don't even have eShop support. There's no eShop for Chile, so you need to make an account in Canada or the US to buy digital games.
The beauty of region locking.
Karsticles
Member
I think the better solution is making it decent outside of the sweetspot.
Make the kicks safe on shield even with the sourspot :/
I think what she really needs at this point is less endlag to make for a better neutral a lot of her options are unsafe. She cannot force approaches because her projectiles are simply awful and having only Dtilt, Jab and Nair as "safe" moves doesn't work at all.
The Ftilt and Nayru's buffs were useful for her neutral and maybe it's only me that sucks but I always get bodied using Zelda when facing someone who really knows what is doing especially against clouds, bayonettas and ikes.
Playing in my "local scene" with her is hard af but I really love using Zelda so I just stick with her anyways.
Wyndstryker
Member
Zelda will get bodied hard against a good Bayonetta, that's easily a bad MU for her if the Bayo is good. Cloud and Ike, it's much closer, better for her in the Ike MU than Cloud but both are very similar in fundamentals. Main thing in the Cloud and Ike MU is really getting them offstage, Zelda beats them offstage if they're trying to make it back. Phantom can screw with them hard. Moreso Cloud than Ike.
Yeah, I don't know why all of her aerials depend on sweetspots to function. 1 is understandable, but all 4?!
Really holds her back.
Wyndstryker
Member
Of all her aerials dair is the most functional even when a sourspot hits. At least in the offstage game, rage or high damage makes a sourspot dair as effective as a sweetspot. And the dair+footstool combo can be done if you're good enough.
Uair's buff makes it way easier to land. So it's quite viable now.
Sadly her two lightning kicks are high risk moves with not the best of rewards.
Blood Diamonds
Banned
Actually, this is true. I think it only does like 4% if you don't get the sweetspot, which is ridiculous imo. Falcon's fair is similar but he can act out of it pretty quickly while Zelda is left open for quite a bit and if your opponent shields it you're fucked.
Yes I know what you mean, I guess it is just me that don't know how to play those MU properly but they are still hard.
You are right saying that Cloud is not that difficult to gimp when he doesn't have limit with the phantom or even with Nair/Nayru offstage, my problem is getting them offstage.
I just saw a Zelda MU tier list, Bayonetta and Cloud are at the top as the most harder MU for Zelda.
MiguelMexMIstery
Member
Hmmm, is this the correct thread to ask for combats? If so, someone wants to play against me and my cousin?
My ID: Miguel_Angel10
My ID: Miguel_Angel10
Karsticles
Member
It's part of her Wisdom theme. The knowledge of exactly how to strike for massive damage, in contrast with Ganondorf as Power with his heavy hits, and Link as Courage as he stands across the screen spamming projectiles.
I also think that Falcon's Knee is much easier to sweet spot.
Did pretty well at Hawaii local today.
Got 4th place. Managed to beat one of the top players' Ness and Diddy Kong with Mewtwo and Game and Watch. In total I used 6 different characters to win games in bracket (Cloud, Ness, Mewtwo, Game and Watch, Diddy Kong, Duck Hunt)
Got 3rd for the low tier tourney side event. I used Mewtwo (not even low tier but he was legal since were using Glitch rules), Duck Hunt, Palutena, Jigglypuff, Samus, Little Mac for that. Ended up losing Winner's and Loser's Finals to good Little Macs lol
Need to work on anti-Mac tech with Duck Hunt and Mewtwo. I already have a few with Duck Hunt, but I'm definitely much more comfortable going Ness (which wasn't legal in the low tier tourney obv) against good Mac players in general.
Also Karst or anybody else, got some Mewtwo tips/videos? Trying to improve mine. Mostly optimized combo and matchup specific stuff is what I want to learn since I think I got the edgeguarding and basic gameplan down in games. I already have a playlist I found of some post-patch Mewtwo stuff here:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUqlGSSasvYO_aBtSkBTVTxvOxB5Aq8DG
Bidou is been getting a lot more attention lately and I think since I use a few characters with C-stick set to special anyway I might get some mileage on it.
I'm thinking I'll use Bayonetta with Bidou. Easier instant aerial sideB punish, and 100% accurate PP dtilt on shield sounds amazing. I also haven't even really used Bayo yet so I won't have the muscle memory issue I think
Got 4th place. Managed to beat one of the top players' Ness and Diddy Kong with Mewtwo and Game and Watch. In total I used 6 different characters to win games in bracket (Cloud, Ness, Mewtwo, Game and Watch, Diddy Kong, Duck Hunt)
Got 3rd for the low tier tourney side event. I used Mewtwo (not even low tier but he was legal since were using Glitch rules), Duck Hunt, Palutena, Jigglypuff, Samus, Little Mac for that. Ended up losing Winner's and Loser's Finals to good Little Macs lol
Need to work on anti-Mac tech with Duck Hunt and Mewtwo. I already have a few with Duck Hunt, but I'm definitely much more comfortable going Ness (which wasn't legal in the low tier tourney obv) against good Mac players in general.
Also Karst or anybody else, got some Mewtwo tips/videos? Trying to improve mine. Mostly optimized combo and matchup specific stuff is what I want to learn since I think I got the edgeguarding and basic gameplan down in games. I already have a playlist I found of some post-patch Mewtwo stuff here:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUqlGSSasvYO_aBtSkBTVTxvOxB5Aq8DG
Bidou is been getting a lot more attention lately and I think since I use a few characters with C-stick set to special anyway I might get some mileage on it.
I'm thinking I'll use Bayonetta with Bidou. Easier instant aerial sideB punish, and 100% accurate PP dtilt on shield sounds amazing. I also haven't even really used Bayo yet so I won't have the muscle memory issue I think
Brook is now making Wii U converters for PS4/PS3 & 360/XB1 sticks & pads.
Judging by the fact that this works with Smash 4, Pokkén Tournament, & Tekken Tag Tournament 2 on the Wii U, it likely registers your stick as a Pro Controller. I've reached out to both Focus Attack & Brook via Twitter to make sure, but FA wasn't sure & Brook has yet to respond.
Judging by the fact that this works with Smash 4, Pokkén Tournament, & Tekken Tag Tournament 2 on the Wii U, it likely registers your stick as a Pro Controller. I've reached out to both Focus Attack & Brook via Twitter to make sure, but FA wasn't sure & Brook has yet to respond.
Brook is now making Wii U converters for PS4/PS3 & 360/XB1 sticks & pads.
Judging by the fact that this works with Smash 4, Pokkén Tournament, & Tekken Tag Tournament 2 on the Wii U, it likely registers your stick as a Pro Controller. I've reached out to both Focus Attack & Brook via Twitter to make sure, but FA wasn't sure & Brook has yet to respond.
IMO not really useful for Smash unless you mod a Tekken Wii U stick to have a way to shift between analog states on control stick + C buttons/stick on the stick. There was a custom made stick for Smash 4 and it looked interesting. I can also see a modified stick or hitbox config being good for bidou.
Would like to pick one up for Pokken though for sure.
I don't think Bayonetta is broken either, but her design is pretty toxic.
She's just obscenely unfun to fight since a single mistake can cost you a stock, though I still think this iteration of Smash 4 is the absolute best in terms of balance. You're seeing tons of character variety now, which legitimately wasn't a thing before when Sheik and co were gatekeeping the hell out of the cast.
Even though Bayonetta is the "best" character, she's still significantly easier to beat than pre-patch Sheik.
She's just obscenely unfun to fight since a single mistake can cost you a stock, though I still think this iteration of Smash 4 is the absolute best in terms of balance. You're seeing tons of character variety now, which legitimately wasn't a thing before when Sheik and co were gatekeeping the hell out of the cast.
Even though Bayonetta is the "best" character, she's still significantly easier to beat than pre-patch Sheik.
Karsticles
Member
A single mistake can cost you a stock, but that isn't any different from other characters with strong counters. Mewtwo landing Disable at 60% often makes you lose a stock, but no one complains about Disable.
I just go for lots of baits against Bayonetta players. Empty jumps into Usmash every time she's landing.
Agreed.
Bayonetta still has some weird design issues. They've been removing 0-deaths, so I imagine hers will go away too in time and she'll just take a bit longer to kill in later patches.
But yeah....She also is supposed to have great landing lag, but she can usually mitigate this with aerial sideB away, and she's supposed to have a mediocre ground game but her upB is frame 4 and hits both sides. Removing the 0-deaths, adding some more end lag to a few moves, and making her upB not the best OOS option in the game would help a lot in making her less obnoxious without ruining her design. Wouldn't really have an issue with Witch Time if the 0-deaths were gone too.
Pre-patch Sheik was definitely worse of course. But that doesn't mean Bayo doesn't have some weird design issues that I hope they'll address.
But yeah....She also is supposed to have great landing lag, but she can usually mitigate this with aerial sideB away, and she's supposed to have a mediocre ground game but her upB is frame 4 and hits both sides. Removing the 0-deaths, adding some more end lag to a few moves, and making her upB not the best OOS option in the game would help a lot in making her less obnoxious without ruining her design. Wouldn't really have an issue with Witch Time if the 0-deaths were gone too.
Pre-patch Sheik was definitely worse of course. But that doesn't mean Bayo doesn't have some weird design issues that I hope they'll address.
Well let's not get carried away here. Bayonetta can start her 0 death combos from her Up B, a frame 4 move that is godlike out of shield. Counters are counters. They are the definition of situational (barring Witch Time). Even Corrin's legendary pre-patch counter was a niche option at high level play.
Exactly.