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Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U DLC |OT2| Lucas comes out of Nowhere!

M

MaverickHunterAsh

Member
Whew! After E3 week with the rest of the GameXplain crew and the Electric Daisy Carnival with my fiancée this past weekend, I'm finally back. (Not that I ever really left, but I fell silent just as E3 began since it always keeps me so busy.)

So what's the general consensus among SmashGAF on Lucas, Roy, and Ryu? I haven't had too much time to play around with them myself yet, but they seem to be pretty fun to use and I'm especially impressed by how "de-cloned" Roy is in Smash 4. He feels appreciably different from Marth and Lucina, which is a real feat considering he started out in Melee as little more than a Marth clone. I suppose Sakurai had the same thought a lot of us did and figured Marth didn't need two straight-up clones in one game. :p

I'm also floored by how faithfully Sakurai and his team brought Ryu over with so many of his core Street Fighter mechanics intact. He plays so much like he does in Street Fighter... and yet this is Smash. It's wild, but he seems to be a comfortable fit and not at all the "Smash killer" so many ridiculous whiners claimed he was when they learned of his command inputs, cancelable Focus Attacks, etc.

Lucas... pretty much seems like Lucas and doesn't really feel like he's been changed from Brawl all that much, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I might be wrong about that, though; I was always more of a Ness player than a Lucas one. I'm just glad he's back!

Scouring the Internet for general opinions and impressions of the DLC Three in an effort to get caught up, these are the feelings I'm getting:

Lucas - Not actually all that great, maybe a little worse here than in Brawl and struggles with a lot of matchups... generally worse than Ness in Smash 4?

Roy - A strong contender with a lot of reliable throw combos and a comfortable variety of kill options at surprisingly low percentages... maybe the best Fire Emblem character in the game?

Ryu - A highly technical character who can be very dangerous in the right hands but is somewhat average otherwise, not nearly the overwhelmingly OP presence so many assumed him to be upon release... also in the running for worst recovery after Little Mac?

That about right? I'm curious what ya'll think of our new challengers...
 
K

Karsticles

Member
MaverickHunterAsh said:
Whew! After E3 week with the rest of the GameXplain crew and the Electric Daisy Carnival with my fiancée this past weekend, I'm finally back. (Not that I ever really left, but I fell silent just as E3 began since it always keeps me so busy.)

So what's the general consensus among SmashGAF on Lucas, Roy, and Ryu? I haven't had too much time to play around with them myself yet, but they seem to be pretty fun to use and I'm especially impressed by how "de-cloned" Roy is in Smash 4. He feels appreciably different from Marth and Lucina, which is a real feat considering he started out in Melee as little more than a Marth clone. I suppose Sakurai had the same thought a lot of us did and figured Marth didn't need two straight-up clones in one game. :p

I'm also floored by how faithfully Sakurai and his team brought Ryu over with so many of his core Street Fighter mechanics intact. He plays so much like he does in Street Fighter... and yet this is Smash. It's wild, but he seems to be a comfortable fit and not at all the "Smash killer" so many ridiculous whiners claimed he was when they learned of his command inputs, cancelable Focus Attacks, etc.

Lucas... pretty much seems like Lucas and doesn't really feel like he's been changed from Brawl all that much, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I might be wrong about that, though; I was always more of a Ness player than a Lucas one. I'm just glad he's back!

Scouring the Internet for general opinions and impressions of the DLC Three in an effort to get caught up, these are the feelings I'm getting:

Lucas - Not actually all that great, maybe a little worse here than in Brawl and struggles with a lot of matchups... generally worse than Ness in Smash 4?

Roy - A strong contender with a lot of reliable throw combos and a comfortable variety of kill options at surprisingly low percentages... maybe the best Fire Emblem character in the game?

Ryu - A highly technical character who can be very dangerous in the right hands but is somewhat average otherwise, not nearly the overwhelmingly OP presence so many assumed him to be upon release... also in the running for worst recovery after Little Mac?

That about right? I'm curious what ya'll think of our new challengers...
Click to expand...
Agreed on those points. Scroll up to find a killer Ryu combo video.

If Ness is A+ tier, Lucas is probably B+ tier. His biggest issue is struggling to get kills.
 
S

Snacks the sober sea lion

Member
MaverickHunterAsh said:
Whew! After E3 week with the rest of the GameXplain crew and the Electric Daisy Carnival with my fiancée this past weekend, I'm finally back. (Not that I ever really left, but I fell silent just as E3 began since it always keeps me so busy.)

So what's the general consensus among SmashGAF on Lucas, Roy, and Ryu? I haven't had too much time to play around with them myself yet, but they seem to be pretty fun to use and I'm especially impressed by how "de-cloned" Roy is in Smash 4. He feels appreciably different from Marth and Lucina, which is a real feat considering he started out in Melee as little more than a Marth clone. I suppose Sakurai had the same thought a lot of us did and figured Marth didn't need two straight-up clones in one game. :p

I'm also floored by how faithfully Sakurai and his team brought Ryu over with so many of his core Street Fighter mechanics intact. He plays so much like he does in Street Fighter... and yet this is Smash. It's wild, but he seems to be a comfortable fit and not at all the "Smash killer" so many ridiculous whiners claimed he was when they learned of his command inputs, cancelable Focus Attacks, etc.

Lucas... pretty much seems like Lucas and doesn't really feel like he's been changed from Brawl all that much, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I might be wrong about that, though; I was always more of a Ness player than a Lucas one. I'm just glad he's back!

Scouring the Internet for general opinions and impressions of the DLC Three in an effort to get caught up, these are the feelings I'm getting:

Lucas - Not actually all that great, maybe a little worse here than in Brawl and struggles with a lot of matchups... generally worse than Ness in Smash 4?

Roy - A strong contender with a lot of reliable throw combos and a comfortable variety of kill options at surprisingly low percentages... maybe the best Fire Emblem character in the game?

Ryu - A highly technical character who can be very dangerous in the right hands but is somewhat average otherwise, not nearly the overwhelmingly OP presence so many assumed him to be upon release... also in the running for worst recovery after Little Mac?

That about right? I'm curious what ya'll think of our new challengers...
Click to expand...

"Well, Lucas's aerials don't cancel and his forward air sweetspot doesn't KO until 160% because we wouldn't want the new characters to be too strong, you know?" while a screen in the background shows Roy KO'ing Dedede at 60%.
 
T

Thulius

Member
MaverickHunterAsh said:
Ryu - A highly technical character who can be very dangerous in the right hands but is somewhat average otherwise, not nearly the overwhelmingly OP presence so many assumed him to be upon release... also in the running for worst recovery after Little Mac?
Click to expand...

Not even close to the worst recovery. All of his specials affect his air momentum in ways that help him recover, and being able to focus through things on the way back lets him avoid a lot of basic airdodge traps. Tatsu ledge snaps, shoryuken has an amazing hitbox that makes edgeguarding him difficult and it even gains invincibility if you're ballsy enough to go for the motion.

His offstage options are unorthodox for sure, but they're still really good.
 
S

Shamrock7r

Member
I'd probably place Lucas right in the middle of middle tier, not upper, but right in the middle. Maybe slightly lower. Will have to play more. He also plays very differently from his Brawl counterpart due to changes with his moves, hit boxes, and momentum changes.
 
S

Snacks the sober sea lion

Member
Lucas definitely feels like he could be better. He's obviously not bad, but it's like they were scared of making him actually be particularly good.

I paid for Roy because I just need all the characters, but he kind of feels like the least-interesting technically. In practice he's obviously really strong and has nice animations, but I feel like he doesn't flow nearly as well as Ike or Marth.

Ryu I don't know. It's hard to find the right mix of Street Fighter, since he benefits more from walking than most characters, and Smash Bros just running around doing aerials and dash attacks can be effective but doesn't seem quite right. His command specials are awkward to pull off in a game that doesn't have autocorrect. Reactions to him being top tier were obviously exaggerated, unless someone really figures him out and earns that spot, but since characters rarely make it to top tier on potential alone and are generally "best reward for least effort" (not to say playing Sheik or Rosalina competitively is super-easy or anything), it seems unlikely he would be placed there even if he earns it. Greninja and Peach are two characters I would say still have a ton of potential, but are thoroughly ignored due to the effort you need to put in as well as some obvious weaknesses. At times, mid tier feels like a dumping ground for "we don't understand this character yet and can't really be bothered to play them."
 
O

Out_Of_Ammo

Member
Just read a thread on Smashboards that claimed Dedede is OP in smash 4.
His reasoning:
1. One of the best recoveries
2. Heavy as sh##
3. Strongest f smash
4. OP Nair
5. Most knockback heavy projectile with a disjointed hitbox
6. All moves not laggy or gives to much shield knock back
7. Has an SD move

Guess the thruth is finally out. Can't wait to see nothing but Dededes at tourneys from now on.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Out_Of_Ammo said:
Just read a thread on Smashboards that claimed Dedede is OP in smash 4.
His reasoning:
1. One of the best recoveries
2. Heavy as sh##
3. Strongest f smash
4. OP Nair
5. Most knockback heavy projectile with a disjointed hitbox
6. All moves not laggy or gives to much shield knock back
7. Has an SD move

Guess the thruth is finally out. Can't wait to see nothing but Dededes at tourneys from now on.
Click to expand...
A Dedede player consistently wins our locals every week. I think he is pretty underrated.

He feels heavier than Bowser. Drives me nuts. Fat penguin lives forever.
 
O

Out_Of_Ammo

Member
Karsticles said:
A Dedede player consistently wins our locals every week. I think he is pretty underrated.

He feels heavier than Bowser. Drives me nuts. Fat penguin lives forever.
Click to expand...

One great Dedede player doesn't make the character OP though. I mean, I agree with you, I think he's underrated and definitely not low tier, but any of those points of why he's supposed to be OP are ridiculous.
His recovery is good but very predictable. He's heavy but slow and gets juggled by utilts by half the cast. His Fsmash is strong but you'll only ever land it off a hard read or by luck. Nair is punishable with shield, as are all his aerials. And lol at his moves being not laggy.
 
J

JulianImp

Member
Snacks the sober sea lion said:
I got into a game with a Japanese player who didn't leave after one match.
Click to expand...

While most of them used to leave right away back when I had Julian as my mii name, many more stuck to playing around at least one match once I began using a mii I imported from my JP N3DS with my name written in katakana. I still wish the WiiU would let me use japanese input, though.

Nowadays it isn't that rare for me to play against JP opponents who stick around for a couple matches, but only as long as there isn't an awful skill gap between them and I.
 
T

Thulius

Member
Out_Of_Ammo said:
One great Dedede player doesn't make the character OP though. I mean, I agree with you, I think he's underrated and definitely not low tier, but any of those points of why he's supposed to be OP are ridiculous.
His recovery is good but very predictable. He's heavy but slow and gets juggled by utilts by half the cast. His Fsmash is strong but you'll only ever land it off a hard read or by luck. Nair is punishable with shield, as are all his aerials. And lol at his moves being not laggy.
Click to expand...

For what it's worth Nair's utility has nothing to do with how safe it is, it's so good because he has 3 air jumps that are the perfect height for feinting it. You're forced to either eat through your own shield or just guess when/if he'll actually commit every time he leaves the ground.

He still sucks against characters with the mobility to meet him in the air but there are a lot of situations for a lot of characters where that's not an option. Even for characters who do have that option, it's not an easy thing to do on reaction if you're not familiar with the matchup.

Obviously I'm not gonna sit here and tell you Dedede is OP but any character that forces you to be defensive by doing basically nothing is going to seem that way to weaker players.
 
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