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[strange headache]

Not bat, not terrible. The Batman is all style over substance.

There are some truly epic moments, but all of them could have easily been packed into a much tighter experience. Cinematography and visual tone were simply amazing, especially the lighting added so much to the overall atmosphere of the movie. That includes many of the blurry and smeared macro shots which lend the movie a beautifully messy and worn feeling.

Stone-faced Pattinson looked good in his costume, but was easily outplayed by Paul Dano's Riddler. I enjoyed looking at Batman staring intensely into the distance as he finally got to do some real detective work. I liked the more grounded approach to Pattinson's Batman, but I feel like the Riddle just was the more interesting character here.

Catwoman's cringe "white privileged as*holes" line was not only subtly racist, but totally unnecessary considering how Zoë Kravitz performance and the forced romance were easily the worst aspects of the movie. I really don't need to be lectured by millionaire Lenny Kravitz' daughter on privilege. The opening, the frikken' Batmobile and the thick atmosphere were good stuff.

The clichéd corruption story did not warrant the overly long runtime though, as most of the dialogues were merely serviceable. All in all, The Dark Knight is the vastly superior Batman movie still.

 

[DeafTourette]

I'd argue that the current incarnation was more about Batman, in a sense, the true Bruce Wayne, developing into what he's known for. Whereas, I found TDK trilogy to be more about Bruce Wayne, the person, coming to terms with and re-emerging as his own distinct person. Making Batman the disguise for Bruce, and not the other way around. Yes, the villains were, for the most part, awesome, but I feel they operated as well written foils to different aspects of Bruce's personality.

Consider, Ras Al Ghul was cunning, had forethought, skill, experience. He was literally trained in the same manner as Batman. In a film where he's struggling to balance vigilantism with heroism, having someone who basically operates as a parable of what his own internal dogma could lead him to become is fascinating. Ditto the Scarecrow and his manipulation of fear and anxiety, two tools that Batman used quite often.

Moving onto the Joker, he was a vigilante and an icon on the streets of Gotham much like Batman. He challenged Bruce's code of honor, as it were. Never killing, saving lives over anything. Two Face was pretty clearly an inversion of Bruce. The white knight to his dark knight. A very blatant visual metaphor the light and darkness in everyone, the two sides of the same coin and how thin the line between the two is.

And Bane, finally, was Batman's physical foil. A man with experience in the dark, in the underworld, and the first in Nolan's trilogy to really physically outclass Bruce to the point of breaking the bat. Taking Batman back to the beginning and making him find his inner strength. I think all three films are fantastic for the arc they put Bruce through, and it's in part because of how fleshed out the villains are.

Umm... The Joker killed ...

 

[TheInfamousKira]

Umm... The Joker killed ...

The bolded part is Batman's personal code. I'm aware the Joker killed, lmfao

 

[sol_bad]

Not bat, not terrible. The Batman is all style over substance.

There are some truly epic moments, but all of them could have easily been packed into a much tighter experience. Cinematography and visual tone were simply amazing, especially the lighting added so much to the overall atmosphere of the movie. That includes many of the blurry and smeared macro shots which lend the movie a beautifully messy and worn feeling.

Stone-faced Pattinson looked good in his costume, but was easily outplayed by Paul Dano's Riddler. I enjoyed looking at Batman staring intensely into the distance as he finally got to do some real detective work. I liked the more grounded approach to Pattinson's Batman, but I feel like the Riddle just was the more interesting character here.

Catwoman's cringe "white privileged as*holes" line was not only subtly racist, but totally unnecessary considering how Zoë Kravitz performance and the forced romance were easily the worst aspects of the movie. I really don't need to be lectured by millionaire Lenny Kravitz' daughter on privilege. The opening, the frikken' Batmobile and the thick atmosphere were good stuff.

The clichéd corruption story did not warrant the overly long runtime though, as most of the dialogues were merely serviceable. All in all, The Dark Knight is the vastly superior Batman movie still.

Holy shit, I'm amazed that I'm reading something vaguely positive from you.

 

[FullMetalx117]

This might first Batman where I sympathized with the civilians/cops who don’t like Batman - that car chase scene was so dumb. He decides to chase penguin down a highway, cause many accidents/destruction, blowup trucks/oil tankers in the process where probably many people died, all to have a small conversation with penguin and drive off again…was it worth it? Batman is not that dumb lol

 

[Shubh_C63]

The movie set up the Gotham right way for me. break everything and build it back up.
He is still the "Vengeance" and has a long way to earn "I am Batman".

Penguin was the best. and as that grave secret of Wayne enterprises is out does that mean going forward company will face huge backlash or go bankrupt ?

 

[DeafTourette]

Not bat, not terrible. The Batman is all style over substance.

There are some truly epic moments, but all of them could have easily been packed into a much tighter experience. Cinematography and visual tone were simply amazing, especially the lighting added so much to the overall atmosphere of the movie. That includes many of the blurry and smeared macro shots which lend the movie a beautifully messy and worn feeling.

Stone-faced Pattinson looked good in his costume, but was easily outplayed by Paul Dano's Riddler. I enjoyed looking at Batman staring intensely into the distance as he finally got to do some real detective work. I liked the more grounded approach to Pattinson's Batman, but I feel like the Riddle just was the more interesting character here.

Catwoman's cringe "white privileged as*holes" line was not only subtly racist, but totally unnecessary considering how Zoë Kravitz performance and the forced romance were easily the worst aspects of the movie. I really don't need to be lectured by millionaire Lenny Kravitz' daughter on privilege. The opening, the frikken' Batmobile and the thick atmosphere were good stuff.

The clichéd corruption story did not warrant the overly long runtime though, as most of the dialogues were merely serviceable. All in all, The Dark Knight is the vastly superior Batman movie still.

You know that Zoë didn't write the script, right? A white man did. No one is lecturing you or anyone in this movie. One line isn't a lecture... It fits her character as a working poor black woman in Gotham. Context... Zoe is rich, Selina Kyle isn't.

Plus the line is meant to be ironic in that scene because she's unknowingly saying it to one of those "white privileged a-holes" as Batman is Bruce Wayne. She didn't know who he was.

That's the last time I'm going to even bring that up...

 

[NahaNago]

This might first Batman where I sympathized with the civilians/cops who don’t like Batman - that car chase scene was so dumb. He decides to chase penguin down a highway, cause many accidents/destruction, blowup trucks/oil tankers in the process where probably many people died, all to have a small conversation with penguin and drive off again…was it worth it? Batman is not that dumb lol

Yeah, I thought that chase was a bit weird. There is no telling how many people died as a result of that chase. I keep having to remind myself that this is supposed to be a newbie batman. I would have thought batman would have just placed a tracer on the penguin's car and taken out penguin at a better time.

I know that this is a batman that folks are raving about online but nearly every one I've talked to in person didn't really like the movie. I'm personally mixed on the movie after having pondered over it a bit more.

 

[DeafTourette]

Yeah, I thought that chase was a bit weird. There is no telling how many people died as a result of that chase. I keep having to remind myself that this is supposed to be a newbie batman. I would have thought batman would have just placed a tracer on the penguin's car and taken out penguin at a better time.

I know that this is a batman that folks are raving about online but nearly every one I've talked to in person didn't really like the movie. I'm personally mixed on the movie after having pondered over it a bit more.

My friend, a woman, that i often go to the movies with saw it recently ... She loved it! And she's not a comic geek like many of us on here.

My experience is different from yours... I've seen more hate for this film online ... I've heard more positivity in person.

 

[PaddyOCanager]

This might first Batman where I sympathized with the civilians/cops who don’t like Batman - that car chase scene was so dumb. He decides to chase penguin down a highway, cause many accidents/destruction, blowup trucks/oil tankers in the process where probably many people died, all to have a small conversation with penguin and drive off again…was it worth it? Batman is not that dumb lol

Yep - he is reckless. He is tunnel-visioned in his role as Batman, disregarding everything else. He literally punches his way in to see Penguin the first time. Alfred says he regrets that he only taught Bruce how to fight, and it shows.

The car chase and other scenes like it are why I really enjoyed the ending of the film.

 

[strange headache]

You know that Zoë didn't write the script, right? A white man did.

I don't care if it is written by a white man, a black woman or a green alien, bad dialogue is bad dialogue.

This might first Batman where I sympathized with the civilians/cops who don’t like Batman - that car chase scene was so dumb. He decides to chase penguin down a highway, cause many accidents/destruction, blowup trucks/oil tankers in the process where probably many people died, all to have a small conversation with penguin and drive off again…was it worth it? Batman is not that dumb lol

What makes this even worse is that Batman didn't know about the rat's identity or the scope of Riddler's plan. It also totally devalues Batman's comment about Jim Gordon using a gun. At least the commissioner isn't indirectly guilty of killing dozens of civilians in a totally unnecessary car chase, especially not if the Penguin can be found at his usual place a little while later anyway. The scene exists purely to show off the very cool car.

So many narrative inconsistencies happen because the movie wants to introduce a cool scene. I can forgive it for that to a certain degree, but it could have been so much more. Visually the movie is a treat, it is a real shame that it gets dragged down by such a middling story.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

As I've mentioned in this thread, I didn't really like the movie either, even though I love dark and gritty movies. It's was meh at best - too long, some SJW jammed in there, way too much Catwoman and not enough Riddler. This movie probably has triple the Catwoman storyline and screen time vs. Riddler mayhem.

I like Bale movies better even though he sounds like an idiot with that gravelly voice.

But looking back at what you guys said aboive about the reckless car chase scene youre right! It is violent. I didnt think of it as I simply enjoyed the car chase scene for what is was (pure mayhem), but it doesnt fit the Batman character as an uncaring hero who doesnt care about innocent people - which is what his character is all about.

But then again, I guess the new direction of Batman is ultra gritty. And if that means some innocent people get tossed into the fire here and there, that' OK with the new direction of the character.

 

[Sub_Level]

I don't care if it is written by a white man, a black woman or a green alien, bad dialogue is bad dialogue.

Sure, and I agree the dialogue isn't the best. But its not the movie being "subtly racist" or trying to lecture the audience. Its just a flawed character espousing her own resentful viewpoint. She was depicted as struggling in the Nolan & Burton films as well. Anne Hathaway was basically one draft away from explicitly mentioning wealth inequality.

 

[strange headache]

Sure, and I agree the dialogue isn't the best. But its not the movie being "subtly racist" or trying to lecture the audience.

Yes it is, unless you can tell how the color of your skin affects your corruptibility.

 

[PaddyOCanager]

Yes it is, unless you can tell how the color of your skin affects your corruptibility.

Catwoman is a flawed, corruptible character in this film. She wasn't shown to be this paragon of virtue in the movie; her views are blatantly undermined in the very scene people keep criticizing and in the end she chooses to pursue selfish endeavors rather than be the force of change against the status quo she complains about. She pursues money the same way the people she hates, even getting her friend killed in process. She's had trauma in her life and is lashing out, just like Bruce.

Also, why the fuck would they show Batman toss her around like a ragdoll the first time they meet? That doesn't fit the narrative of a subtly racist film.

 

[manfestival]

Saw the movie. It was a 6/10 maybe a 5/10 now that I have had more time to think about the movie. Definitely not even a contender to me among the best Batman movies. I know I posted more of my thoughts in another thread but.... the best thing this movie does is flesh out Gotham. It just too much that I don't care for. As I also mentioned in the other thread, there are too many things that occur that take me out of the immersion of the movie. My biggest gripe being the entire scene of the car chase and surrounding occurrences. Just screamed too stupid even with attempting to turn my brain off. That is among other things.

Side note: I saw this movie with my brother who is not into anything geeky and barely has any free time. Also, he isn't as harsh of a critic as I am. He really didn't like the movie. His biggest thing was that the movie was boring.

 

[Dr Bass]

Sure, and I agree the dialogue isn't the best. But its not the movie being "subtly racist" or trying to lecture the audience. Its just a flawed character espousing her own resentful viewpoint. She was depicted as struggling in the Nolan & Burton films as well. Anne Hathaway was basically one draft away from explicitly mentioning wealth inequality.

Uhhh doesn't she? She threatens Bruce that him and his friends are going to wonder how they could take so much and leave so little for everyone else ... very soon.

Then of course she realizes it was wrong later in the movie but .. yeah. That stuff is in TDKR, but it's never tied to race of all things.

 

[NahaNago]

My friend, a woman, that i often go to the movies with saw it recently ... She loved it! And she's not a comic geek like many of us on here.

My experience is different from yours... I've seen more hate for this film online ... I've heard more positivity in person.

I had talked with a female coworker last night at work about the last movie she had watched and surprisingly it was batman and she just didn't like it. I really didn't think she was the type to go watch it at all. I knew she wouldn't like the movie and my brother ended up falling asleep while watching it. I think iv'e seen more positivity because I stuck with mostly watching online reviews . It threw me off cause I was expecting something else when watching the movie. The movie was solid but just not to my taste in a batman movie.

 

[strange headache]

Catwoman is a flawed, corruptible character in this film. She wasn't shown to be this paragon of virtue in the movie;

I somehow doubt that they intended for lowbrow racism to be one of catwoman's character flaws.

Your argument is strenuous at best and easily refuted by the simple fact that omitting this ridiculous line would have changed nothing in the portrayal of her character. Having a flawed personage is no excuse for bad dialogue, especially considering the rather fine depiction of a much worse antagonist in the form of Riddler. The movie clearly intended the audience to be sympathetic to her, but the whole audience groaned when she said that line (which by the way, was pretty much the only reaction that movie got). Let's not play coy here, we all know why this line was included and your threadbare excuse is nothing more than a false pretext.

 

[FunkMiller]

Plus the line is meant to be ironic in that scene because she's unknowingly saying it to one of those "white privileged a-holes" as Batman is Bruce Wayne. She didn't know who he was.

I find it weird that people are trying to say this movie is some sort of woke polemic, when Catwoman's opinion is so clearly incorrect. Reeves is subtly, but very deliberately, skewering her point of view that all rich white men are assholes, but claiming such to the literal rich white hero of the movie.

 

[PaddyOCanager]

I find it weird that people are trying to say this movie is some sort of woke polemic, when Catwoman's opinion is so clearly incorrect. Reeves is subtly, but very deliberately, skewering her point of view that all rich white men are assholes, but claiming such to the literal rich white hero of the movie.

This movie isn't woke at all. It's actually a pretty good litmus test for exposing people who think everything is woke nowadays. One sentence is literally all it took, in a 3 hour movie. People are so fucking fragile.



This line was in Jurassic Park, and no one walked out of the theater screaming "FEMINIST AGENDA RUINS FILM!!!!!!!!!!"

 

[FunkMiller]

This movie isn't woke at all. It's actually a pretty good litmus test for exposing people who think everything is woke nowadays. One sentence is literally all it took, in a 3 hour movie. People are so fucking fragile.



This line was in Jurassic Park, and no one walked out of the theater screaming "FEMINIST AGENDA RUINS FILM!!!!!!!!!!"

More than a little irony in that one of the ways woke people are generally described is 'someone who can take offence at the least little thing and blow it out of all proportion'.

The horseshoe of the left and right is closer to touching than ever before.

 

[DeafTourette]

I had talked with a female coworker last night at work about the last movie she had watched and surprisingly it was batman and she just didn't like it. I really didn't think she was the type to go watch it at all. I knew she wouldn't like the movie and my brother ended up falling asleep while watching it. I think iv'e seen more positivity because I stuck with mostly watching online reviews . It threw me off cause I was expecting something else when watching the movie. The movie was solid but just not to my taste in a batman movie.

I understand. I still wish we got the Batfleck movie even though i really liked this one!

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

I somehow doubt that they intended for lowbrow racism to be one of catwoman's character flaws.

Your argument is strenuous at best and easily refuted by the simple fact that omitting this ridiculous line would have changed nothing in the portrayal of her character. Having a flawed personage is no excuse for bad dialogue, especially considering the rather fine depiction of a much worse antagonist in the form of Riddler. The movie clearly intended the audience to be sympathetic to her, but the whole audience groaned when she said that line (which by the way, was pretty much the only reaction that movie got). Let's not play coy here, we all know why this line was included and your threadbare excuse is nothing more than a false pretext.

Pretty sure the line was meant to be ironic considering the secret identity of the man she was standing next to. Its sad that in 2022 we can't use literary devices that depend on subtext for fear of offending people who take things too literally.

 

[GeekyDad]

I somehow doubt that they intended for lowbrow racism to be one of catwoman's character flaws.

Your argument is strenuous at best and easily refuted by the simple fact that omitting this ridiculous line would have changed nothing in the portrayal of her character. Having a flawed personage is no excuse for bad dialogue, especially considering the rather fine depiction of a much worse antagonist in the form of Riddler. The movie clearly intended the audience to be sympathetic to her, but the whole audience groaned when she said that line (which by the way, was pretty much the only reaction that movie got). Let's not play coy here, we all know why this line was included and your threadbare excuse is nothing more than a false pretext.

I'm hoping we're thinking the same here. Again, for me, it wasn't the dialogue itself that bothered me. As a matter of fact, it would be completely believable that a woman about that age could feel and think that way -- it's reflective of the current era. But it was just, well, seemingly obvious that it was put there to appeal to that audience. I can't quite pinpoint whether it was poor delivery by the actress, poor direction, poor screenwriting -- having placed the line at that point in the script -- or a mixture of those or other things, but it simply fell flat. And though perhaps the masses are thinking they're offended by the line itself, they're actually probably, like me, disgusted by it being used to, again, appeal to a certain crowd, rather than to be used as artistic expression.

 

[DeafTourette]

I'm hoping we're thinking the same here. Again, for me, it wasn't the dialogue itself that bothered me. As a matter of fact, it would be completely believable that a woman about that age could feel and think that way -- it's reflective of the current era. But it was just, well, seemingly obvious that it was put there to appeal to that audience. I can't quite pinpoint whether it was poor delivery by the actress, poor direction, poor screenwriting -- having placed the line at that point in the script -- or a mixture of those or other things, but it simply fell flat. And though perhaps the masses are thinking they're offended by the line itself, they're actually probably, like me, disgusted by it being used to, again, appeal to a certain crowd, rather than to be used as artistic expression.

It's irony. She said it to the literal embodiment of what she just said ... Batman is a white privileged guy... She just doesn't KNOW it yet. The line isn't supposed to "appeal" to anyone.

 

[EviLore]

It's fair that she says the line because of the irony that Bruce Wayne is standing right in front of her, and that she's the sort of character who would believe it.

It still made me groan and took me out of the experience. The bad guys being far-right incels organizing on social media was another groaner. Culturally relevant in 2022? Sure, but not what I went to a Batman movie to see.

 

[NahaNago]

I understand. I still wish we got the Batfleck movie even though i really liked this one!

I mostly just wanted Batfleck to continue in order for that universe to keep going. I wanted a darkseid fight even though I'm not a fan of the look their darkseid.

 

[GeekyDad]

It's irony. She said it to the literal embodiment of what she just said ... Batman is a white privileged guy... She just doesn't KNOW it yet. The line isn't supposed to "appeal" to anyone.

Fair enough, but I just wasn't convinced. And like I said, that could have been because of "poor delivery by the actress, poor direction, poor screenwriting -- having placed the line at that point in the script -- or a mixture of those or other things..."

Either way, it felt like, for whatever reason, that the intention was to appeal to a certain audience.

 

[strange headache]

It still made me groan and took me out of the experience. The bad guys being far-right incels organizing on social media was another groaner. Culturally relevant in 2022? Sure, but not what I went to a Batman movie to see.

Exactly.

Up to that point I was simply watching a movie and pretty much enjoying the visual spectacle, but that line took me right out of the experience.

I wasn't even thinking about the Riddler and his incel gang being an allusion to far-right extremist social media conspiracy bubbles. Or how all the white guys are rich and corrupt functionaries of the city and how all of Riddler's targets were exclusively white. I would have thought nothing about all the incorruptible characters being exclusively black (Jim Gordon, Bella Real, etc...). There were also no black people at the secret underground club, which was exclusively run by white patriarchal mafioso.

I even felt sympathetic to Selina and her struggles which resulted from her unfortunate upbringing. She may be a flawed character, but she did her best to get though life despite the fact that she got exploited by her very own father. That single line pretty much changed everything as I find it difficult to sympathize with borderline racists. Unless I'm to somehow assume that she never encountered a powerful corrupted black guy who tried to get into her panties at that nightclub?

The line is bad, because it only takes away from the movie without adding anything of substance. Even in my own review, I've enumerated many other positive and negative aspects, but people only want to focus on that one single thing.
The line is also bad because it forced me to ponder about the carefully curated demographics of that movie and the insidious thought process which might lie behind its casting.

I would have very much preferred to just be allowed to enjoy the movie...

 

[The Skull]

I loved the film but the Riddler basically being a 4chan mod was a bit meh.

 

[DeafTourette]

How does ONE FREAKING LINE TAKE Y'ALL OUT OF THE MOVIE?

Hearing Quentin Tarantino say the N-word every chance he gets in his movies doesn't take ME out... Or the majority of movie goers...

But no... THAT line... Which doesn't even pertain to most of the people on this board ... Takes y'all out.

 

[The Skull]

How does ONE FREAKING LINE TAKE Y'ALL OUT OF THE MOVIE?

Hearing Quentin Tarantino say the N-word every chance he gets in his movies doesn't take ME out... Or the majority of movie goers...

But no... THAT line... Which doesn't even pertain to most of the people on this board ... Takes y'all out.

I imagine it's not the actual line itself but the sociopolitical connotation. It's a kind of "look at us we said the thing" almost fourth wall break. That's at least how I take it, not that it bothered me .

The line itself is fine and fitting within the movie with it being so ironic who she's saying it to. Probably would have been overlooked if "white man bad" wasn't plastered over Twitter everyday.

 

[SafeOrAlone]

People are so sensitive. I can’t believe that one white privilege line is such a talking point.
On one hand, I get it, your little brother bit your finger, but is it really that bad?

I don’t like being preached to either but this is how people make a mountain out of a molehill.

 

[JoduanER2]

Yep, completely agree.

I dont agree. Hollywood has been preaching "white people are bad, all minorities should be treated as victims of the white system" for a long time now. That line was put there with an specific purpose, and we have plenty of evidence (Oscars, interviews, famous actors/directors comments) to assume what is that purpose. I think some people, myself included (im white btw) are tired of being painted as an evil man or part of some kind of "club" that is more privilige than others because of the color of my skin, saying those things doesnt help with nothing at all, it only makes us more hateful towards each other... if you are one of those asshole i sincerenly hope the worst for you and i think you are the cancer of this society.

 

[strange headache]

How does ONE FREAKING LINE TAKE Y'ALL OUT OF THE MOVIE?

Your strawmanning is really starting to piss me off or did you simply not read my previous comment? I think to have made it quite obvious why it isn't just that "one line".
Also, in case you haven't noticed, YOU are the only one making a big fuss because of your stubborn unwillingness to simply accept the fact that others might not be so fond of a dumb line of dialogue for various reasons.

You of all people should be sympathetic to others refusing to reduce others to the color of their skin or attributing human vices to their ethnicity.
I'm not American and I certainly don't like to be vilified for my skin-color as a frikin' customer who paid almost 20 f*cking euros to go see this movie!

That's the last time I'm going to even bring that up...

Heed your own words and get over it already.

 

[PaddyOCanager]

How does ONE FREAKING LINE TAKE Y'ALL OUT OF THE MOVIE?

Hearing Quentin Tarantino say the N-word every chance he gets in his movies doesn't take ME out... Or the majority of movie goers...

But no... THAT line... Which doesn't even pertain to most of the people on this board ... Takes y'all out.

Peacemaker - another current DC superhero product - has tons of racial, sexual, etc statements/stereotypes in it and I thought it was pretty great. One of the main villains is literally a KKK Grand Dragon given superpowers lol. I guess I'm supposed to be offended though because they made a white person bad.

I've never been more excited to see what DC brings next, outside of their Justice League-esque stuff. While the Batman wasn't a perfect movie, this iteration of the character is what I've always wanted to see. The mini Bat-verse they are building with the 2 spin-off shows and the sequel movies have me waaaaay more interested than the previous DCEU efforts.

The MCU felt like one long comic-book arc that finished with Endgame. Now its kind of sputtering aimlessly with all these separate shows/movies. Whereas DC fell flat on its face trying to copy the original Marvel formula, but is finding its footing with all these separate shows/movies. Weird.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Superhero movies as a whole have gravitated to dark and gloomy (especially DC). Marvel movies can still have their laughs and jokes, though Dark Phoenix was pretty serious (good movie too though a lot of people didnt like).

I'm more curious is if the trend will ever 180 and superhero movies get back to being colourful and more comedic like the 80s and 90s family fun of Superman and Batman flicks. Or if superhero movies will forever stick to the more gritty realistic way of doing them.

 

[DeafTourette]

Your strawmanning is really starting to piss me off or did you simply not read my previous comment? I think to have made it quite obvious why it isn't just that "one line".
Also, in case you haven't noticed, YOU are the only one making a big fuss because of your stubborn unwillingness to simply accept the fact that others might not be so fond of a dumb line of dialogue for various reasons.

You of all people should be sympathetic to others refusing to reduce others to the color of their skin or attributing human vices to their ethnicity.
I'm not American and I certainly don't like to be vilified for my skin-color as a frikin' customer who paid almost 20 f*cking euros to go see this movie!



Heed your own words and get the over it already.

You're right ... I did say that.

Consider it let go... Just do better next time with it... Plenty of lines have been like "black bastards" and N-word this and that in movies... Because i understood that was the character... They weren't good people and i understood that. If i can get that, you should get this.

But I've had DECADES of hearing that... You haven't ...

 

[DeafTourette]

Peacemaker - another current DC superhero product - has tons of racial, sexual, etc statements/stereotypes in it and I thought it was pretty great. One of the main villains is literally a KKK Grand Dragon given superpowers lol. I guess I'm supposed to be offended though because they made a white person bad.

I've never been more excited to see what DC brings next, outside of their Justice League-esque stuff. While the Batman wasn't a perfect movie, this iteration of the character is what I've always wanted to see. The mini Bat-verse they are building with the 2 spin-off shows and the sequel movies have me waaaaay more interested than the previous DCEU efforts.

The MCU felt like one long comic-book arc that finished with Endgame. Now its kind of sputtering aimlessly with all these separate shows/movies. Whereas DC fell flat on its face trying to copy the original Marvel formula, but is finding its footing with all these separate shows/movies. Weird.

Peacemaker was AWESOME! Because we got actual character definition and growth ... We got to understand each character and their motivations! James Gunn is a GENIUS! Fight me, yeah I said it .. GENIUS!

I actually REALLY enjoyed Zack Snyder's Justice League, tho! Gave us more time to get to know Cyborg and Flash and even Aquaman ... WB and Whedon really did a number on the theatrical version.

 

[sol_bad]

I dont agree. Hollywood has been preaching "white people are bad, all minorities should be treated as victims of the white system" for a long time now. That line was put there with an specific purpose, and we have plenty of evidence (Oscars, interviews, famous actors/directors comments) to assume what is that purpose. I think some people, myself included (im white btw) are tired of being painted as an evil man or part of some kind of "club" that is more privilige than others because of the color of my skin, saying those things doesnt help with nothing at all, it only makes us more hateful towards each other... if you are one of those asshole i sincerenly hope the worst for you and i think you are the cancer of this society.

White men have been villains in films for decades, what y'all on about?

Total Recall - rich white old man
Beverly Hills Cop Trilogy - white old men, black hero
RoboCop - white man
Commando - white men
Lethal Weapon 1-3 - old white men, white hero with issues and addiction, perfect black hero with perfect family.
Baby Driver - white old man
Mission Impossible 1-3- white men.

The list goes on and on. Why is it only an issue now?

 

[FunkMiller]

The list goes on and on. Why is it only an issue now?

Contemporary media is trying to readdress the racist and misogynist attitudes that have prevailed for decades in their industry.

Unfortunately they are swinging way too much in the other direction in some instances to over compensate. This is wrong.

Most sensible people recognise this, and criticise it when it happens.

Others have decided any readdressing of those issues is wrong, regardless of how it is presented. This is of course, equally wrong.

 

[sol_bad]

Contemporary media is trying to readdress the racist and misogynist attitudes that have prevailed for decades in their industry.

Unfortunately they are swinging way too much in the other direction in some instances to over compensate. This is wrong.

Most sensible people recognise this, and criticise it when it happens.

Others have decided any readdressing of those issues is wrong, regardless of how it is presented. This is of course, equally wrong.

We need more movies like Equaliser 2. Not the best film but I still liked the message that Denzels character gives to the young kid.

 

[FullMetalx117]

I’m still thinking about how dumb that car chase scene was. Seeing arguments online that it just shows how green Batman is and is still learning - sorry I’m not buying it. It takes most people about 6-9 months to get “good”/decent at their normal job. You’re telling me after 2 years that Batman still doesn’t understand a 2 min convo isn’t worth blowing people up into smithereens? Idk why, but that one very cheap scene (obviously made only for the spectacle) may have ruined the entire movie for me.

“It’s just a movie tho, don’t take it seriously.” I like my trash/garbage as much as the next guy - I still watch a lot of Family Guy, it’s relaxing. Everyone needs some good not so serious trash to watch. But this Batman movie was trying to be something - idk smart, dark/gritty, whatever. But to me it’s just trash, which is fine if it wasn’t portrayed to be otherwise

 

[EviLore]

I’m still thinking about how dumb that car chase scene was. Seeing arguments online that it just shows how green Batman is and is still learning - sorry I’m not buying it. It takes most people about 6-9 months to get “good”/decent at their normal job. You’re telling me after 2 years that Batman still doesn’t understand a 2 min convo isn’t worth blowing people up into smithereens? Idk why, but that one very cheap scene (obviously made only for the spectacle) may have ruined the entire movie for me.

“It’s just a movie tho, don’t take it seriously.” I like my trash/garbage as much as the next guy - I still watch a lot of Family Guy, it’s relaxing. Everyone needs some good not so serious trash to watch. But this Batman movie was trying to be something - idk smart, dark/gritty, whatever. But to me it’s just trash, which is fine if it wasn’t portrayed to be otherwise

This Batman is a buffoon. He has a giant ticking bomb clock in front of him as it counts down to zero and ignores it, letting it explode in his face. It facilitates a "cool" slow motion sequence, but undermines the character.

 

[sol_bad]

Nah, car chase was awesome with great music.

 

[0neAnd0nly]

Saw the movie tonight.

Background for me: Not a huge fan of most comic hero’s EXCEPT for Batman. When it comes to Batman, I have read a large portion of the comics in chronological order over the years including the smaller rarer titles like the Legends of the Dark Knight Collection, have beaten all of the modern games (Arkham series and TellTale), and have watched all the films multiple times. My favorite comic of them all is The Last Halloween. My favorite movie to this point would be TDKR (what can I say, I am a Bane fan), and my favorite game was probably City, but I do enjoy Asylum especially for how groundbreaking and influential it ended up being.

Now, with that established and so you guys can understand the aspects of Batman I personally enjoy - here are my thoughts:

I definitely think the movie is good. Did it mean the lofty review scores, hype that has been generated? For me - no. It wasn’t great. I think at best it was as good as the worst Nolan trilogy film (whichever you think that was), so still good - just not as great as the scores indicated.

What I liked story wise was that it was

Spoiler

inspired in large by the Long Halloween.

. However I wasn’t as enthused that the

Spoiler

Telltale game clearly had inspiration on it as well. 100%.

Reeves writing was just so-so. Parts of the main story felt convoluted, and other parts felt far to simple / dumbed down and predictable. Modern politics were injected which I am never a fan of. I prefer to escape reality, but the influence of very serious real life events / tragedy certainly played a part of the film, and the political overtones felt out of place and needless.

Catwoman wasn’t particularly likable. Neutral here. Gordon was portrayed ok. Farrell as Penguin imo was fantastic. Riddler was ok. Most importantly, I think I was pretty happy with Pattinson’s portrayal of Batman though we could have used more

Spoiler

Bruce Wayne

.

Cinematography was good, and lifted up the film even where the story fell average.

Overall I will be excited to see where this goes in the future. It’s nice to see detective Batman / young Batman go to work on film - and overall it was enjoyable even if not up to the expectations that have been set, at least IMO.

Thanks for coming to my Bat talk! Enjoy your weekend! Haha.

 

[strange headache]

You're right ... I did say that.

Consider it let go... Just do better next time with it... Plenty of lines have been like "black bastards" and N-word this and that in movies... Because i understood that was the character... They weren't good people and i understood that. If i can get that, you should get this.

But I've had DECADES of hearing that... You haven't ...

No, you do better! Your silly appeal to emotion doesn't fly with me, sorry.

You are very well aware that Tarantino movies don't vilify their own audiences.

You are conflating two very different contexts in order to make your shoddy argument. A slave owner in a Tarantino movie using derogatory and discriminatory vocabulary makes sense, because he is a nasty racist. The use of the word is intended to make audiences despise these characters. A black character saying it to another black character would also be in line with their character, as evidenced by current real life vernacular and rap music.

In either case, I very much doubt that Tarantino movies are fostering resentment against black people, on the contrary. Movies like Django are putting racists into the vile light that they deserve and make audiences sympathize with the plight of slaves in America. That is the reason why you have no issues with these movies... myself included! A villain or nasty character hating white people and using derogatory terms, I'd have no issue with, as I also have no issue with the Riddler despite the heavy allusions.

The Catwoman line is very different from that. Yes, she is supposed to be a flawed character, but in no way are audiences supposed to regard her as a vile racist. On the contrary, we are supposed to feel for her and be empathetic to her struggles. I somehow very much doubt that DC and Warner have the intention of turning one of her superhero characters into a racist. Flawed or not, we are not supposed to despise Selina. The line was put in there not to portray her as a casual racist, but to appeal to a certain target audience who is resenting white people. In other words, racists!

If a non-black character that I'm supposed to feel sympathetic towards would be using the n-word in a discriminatory fashion, I would be complaining in the exact same manner! Imagine one of the Suicide Squad members casually dropping the line "black people are stupid", you would not be appreciative of that. And you'd be right! Movies, especially not dumb popcorn movies, should not be fostering resentment towards demographics!

You'd think suffering through "decades" of this ignominy would make you more aware of these issues. You simply don't care because it is either not targeted at you, or you just want to enjoy these popcorn movies in a braindead manner.

Oh and Catwoman saying that line to the Batman doesn't really matter. First she is perfectly aware of him being a white dude, irrespective of his true identity. Second, the Batman just passively accepting her casual racism and also falling in love with her, can only mean that he either agrees with her, that he simply doesn't care, or that he's too stupid to realize it. None of the options put him in a very favorable light, but I'm somehow supposed to like that character?

Finally there is also the issue of considering Batman a "privileged character". Yes, he is rich, but he also witnessed the death of both his parents at a very young age, suffers from crippling depression, is unable to form human bonds, cannot maintain a healthy relationship with a woman, is unhealthily reclusive, has a battered and bruised body that cannot keep up with his crime fighting demands and he doesn't care about his material wealth beyond using it as a means to facilitate his vigilantism. You think it is a privilege being Batman? Think again! But you don't care, do you? For you he is simply "white and rich", that's enough.

In case you haven't noticed, that is exactly the same kind of rhetoric that the Riddler uses against Batman. He absolutely despises Batman for being a rich orphan, while Riddler himself was turned into a poor orphan whose cruel fate didn't receive any kind of attention. The Riddler is evil because he can only think in strict categories. He is by the true definition of the dictionary, a classicist with a deep grudge towards those who had it easier in life than him. That is the reason why he feels vindicated through his acts of violence, because from his perspective he is merely punching up.

If you think a little bit more about that line, it flies directly into the face of everything that the movie wants to convey. It perpetuates Riddler's f*cked up worldview without even realizing it... and that, my friend, is the true irony behind it.

 

[Hoppa]

I’m not a big Batman guy but I enjoyed the movie quite a lot! I thought the grungy/goth take on Bruce was pretty refreshing.

It’ll never happen but I would be interested in seeing a reformed Justice League in this grounded style, could give the series a more uniform and unique identity?

I liked the creativity behind the handling and toning down of the characters and it’ll be cool to see their takes on other characters like Poison Ivy and Mr.Freeze.

Spoiler

I suspect Penguin will be the main bad guy in a sequel now that the city is underwater ? Idk. I was kinda expecting to see Joaquin’s Joker revealed in the cell

Cool movie, cool ideas, interesting reboot of the characters.

 

[sol_bad]

ou are very well aware that Tarantino movies don't vilify their own audiences.

The Batman doesn't vilify it's audience, it's your politics and world view that is vilifying the movie.