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the customization in SMT: Nocturne is overrated
- Thread starter U5230
- Start date
Yeah, that bugs the shit out of me too (And I can see how it would be worse for you having played DDS first), but it's still a really fun game. It's just very different. I'm semi-stuck in the next to last dungeon in Nocturne, I really need to get back and finish it (Got stuck on a boss because I don't have demons with the right abilities, which is my only real beef with the game).
keeblerdrow
Member
Stop thinking of it as a turn based RPG and start thinking of it like Pokemon. I've spent about 70% of my time fusing, gathering demons for fusing, or updating my Compendium. Gotta catch em all.
I appreciate them making the game hard for being hard's sake. The megaten games are like the bullies on the block. You can try messing with them if you want to, but you know you'll walk away with brsuises, at the very least. I also think playing DDS before Nocturne will definitely hamper you liking Nocturne because it changed your expectations for the game too much.
I appreciate them making the game hard for being hard's sake. The megaten games are like the bullies on the block. You can try messing with them if you want to, but you know you'll walk away with brsuises, at the very least. I also think playing DDS before Nocturne will definitely hamper you liking Nocturne because it changed your expectations for the game too much.
Himuro said:
I thank you for the tips. I have no doubt I could take him at 18 with a little luck. The problem is that I got to him around level 15, and the randoms I meet give so little xp and/or kill me. I'd deal with it this one time for sure, but I have the impression this won't be the only time I face a situation like that in the game.
radios shipping overview
Member
You shouldn't have to level up at all to beat him, really. You just need to fuse the right demons to beat him out of the demons you have and the demons living in the areas you've been in. He uses force attacks, so fuse or find demons that are immune to force attacks (via absorb, reflect, etc.). Uzume, Koppa, Nozuchi, Nekomata, Sudama, and Kodama are demons around your level that are good for this. The Hifumi magatama (force immunity, in the Ginza underpass) is good to have for this fight too. It'll help to have Sukunda or Fog Breath to negate the stat bonuses he gives himself too.callous said:
Basically the fight will take all your resources to get through, but there's no tedium involved - just getting your party properly organized.
As for Himuro's complaints: You can't change the skills of demons because they're living entities that you've convinced to come along with you, not the standard-RPG brain-swappable party-drones. The entire point of SMT's gameplay is knowing which demons to use for which tasks, and knowing when to keep what you have and when to fuse something new. The game is a series of challenges that can be beaten only by having a good grasp of the demons that will provide the right skillset for the task at hand; half the fun is constructing a party that is matched to the task, be it through conversation or fusion. It's just the way the series is, and it's been that way since before the skill-swapping in FF5 and FF6.
Using magatama well is just a matter of picking a mix of the skills you absolutely need, and refining the hero's skillset bit by bit. The magatama do provide varying stat growth rates, too, which can be helpful. Think of magatama as a replacement for equipment. Previous SMT games had lots of armor and weapon items to equip, but SMT3 abstracted them out when it turned the main character into a demon. I think magatama are a nice substitute for the usual equipment maintenance (which I've really started to tire of).
As for item use: in previous SMTs, there were story-related human characters in your party as well as the demons you chose, and all of those characters could use items. Demons have never been able to use items. Since in SMT3 your character is the only one in your party that's at least partially human, he's the only one who can use items. It's not much of an explanation, but it's another "the way the series is" thing. SMT is best taken on its own terms, because comparing it to other series will just distract you from what you need to be doing to win, I find.
radios shipping overview
Member
I can't remember what level I was at when I fought him, but since I had Uzume (lv18) at the time, I was probably at or above level 18. Usually your demon skillset will have a much greater effect on how you do in a given battle than the hero's level, though.callous said:
Beating SMT: Nocturne without a guide is one of my personal best achievements in gaming this gen. All of the original poster's complaints regarding difficulty seem like assets to me.
Nocturne is one of the only RPGs I can think of in which levelling isn't the be-all end-all solution to all problems--like earlier posters have implied, the rigorously designed combat system means that no matter how overpowered your characters are, you still have to think your way through boss battles to win. Conversely, if you can think your way through a battle, then you can probably beat a boss no matter what your level is, as long as you've managed to get to the boss in the first place.
Nocturne is one of the only RPGs I can think of in which levelling isn't the be-all end-all solution to all problems--like earlier posters have implied, the rigorously designed combat system means that no matter how overpowered your characters are, you still have to think your way through boss battles to win. Conversely, if you can think your way through a battle, then you can probably beat a boss no matter what your level is, as long as you've managed to get to the boss in the first place.
Prospero said:
Definitely. I beat it last week, and I felt a tremendous sense of accomplishment. I was stuck on
Baal avatar
Kagatsuchi was a fucking cakewalk. Sweet jesus Freikugal is overpowered. Focus+Freikugal+75% defense drop=4-5000 points of damage. And if I were focused and used Avenge the damage was greater.
I completly disagree.
The fact you have to build your character certain ways and anything your hero doesn't have, you have to make up with your other demons is brillant.
I seriousely loved the customization in SMT: Nocturne. The fusion system is great.
My team is completly pimped, and it's not cause I spent a bunch of time leveling. It's cause I was smart with my fusions and characters.
My boss team is Hero (pure physical, focus (greatest ability in the game), pierce, attack all, iron claw, void death (2nd best ability in the game), void expel (2nd best ability in the game) and I believe one or two more). Wu Kong (null physical/expel/death and completely badass on buffing everyone). Uriel (he's both healer and has debilitate). Dante (he sucks right now, but I'm still leveling him up)
The fact you have to build your character certain ways and anything your hero doesn't have, you have to make up with your other demons is brillant.
I seriousely loved the customization in SMT: Nocturne. The fusion system is great.
My team is completly pimped, and it's not cause I spent a bunch of time leveling. It's cause I was smart with my fusions and characters.
My boss team is Hero (pure physical, focus (greatest ability in the game), pierce, attack all, iron claw, void death (2nd best ability in the game), void expel (2nd best ability in the game) and I believe one or two more). Wu Kong (null physical/expel/death and completely badass on buffing everyone). Uriel (he's both healer and has debilitate). Dante (he sucks right now, but I'm still leveling him up)
SatelliteOfLove
Member
SailorDaravon said:
Or, you can do like I did and have built insanely tough avatar and demons till I didn't die past 1/3 thru it because I had the tools to use to get out of tight situations. DDS is if anything, is a study that fixed this, (tree-based learning system keeps you tied up, Countering an Physical absorbing or reflecting enemy heals them or hurts the counterer, the Bright/Dark Might descendants work much less often, etc).
Tabris said:
Wu Kong was the fuckin' MAN. Sky-high numbers, Focus, couple buffs, Bright Might, Attack All, voids out the wazoo; too bad Avenge doesn't work with him...but it did with the Thor I got from mixing Wu with a Yurlungur!
My avatar had Void Death, V. Expel, the highest Counter-type I could get, the thing that saves you with 1 HP, Rakunda, Makunda, and that single-target Almighty spell for Physically untouchables. Due to him dying making Game Over, I avoided Attack Skills with him, and Focus takes him out of using Items and switching demons out; not good imo.
Bizarro Sun Yat-sen
Banned
I've noticed that people will always complain about any system that forces them to make hard decisions and/or risk permanently losing something. I think an RPG becomes less of an adventure without these elements, though.
Nostrildamus
Member
IAWTPjiji said:As for Himuro's complaints: You can't change the skills of demons because they're living entities that you've convinced to come along with you, not the standard-RPG brain-swappable party-drones. The entire point of SMT's gameplay is knowing which demons to use for which tasks, and knowing when to keep what you have and when to fuse something new. The game is a series of challenges that can be beaten only by having a good grasp of the demons that will provide the right skillset for the task at hand; half the fun is constructing a party that is matched to the task, be it through conversation or fusion. It's just the way the series is, and it's been that way since before the skill-swapping in FF5 and FF6.
Using magatama well is just a matter of picking a mix of the skills you absolutely need, and refining the hero's skillset bit by bit. The magatama do provide varying stat growth rates, too, which can be helpful. Think of magatama as a replacement for equipment. Previous SMT games had lots of armor and weapon items to equip, but SMT3 abstracted them out when it turned the main character into a demon. I think magatama are a nice substitute for the usual equipment maintenance (which I've really started to tire of).
As for item use: in previous SMTs, there were story-related human characters in your party as well as the demons you chose, and all of those characters could use items. Demons have never been able to use items. Since in SMT3 your character is the only one in your party that's at least partially human, he's the only one who can use items. It's not much of an explanation, but it's another "the way the series is" thing. SMT is best taken on its own terms, because comparing it to other series will just distract you from what you need to be doing to win, I find.
It doesn't really make sense given the context of the game to be able to mix and match all the skills you've learned whenever as in DDS. You're a demon (or demi-human) in Nocturne and forced to play by demon rules. By having to choose carefully what skills you want the main character to keep, it personalizes the experience imo. The skills you choose to learn and adopt reflect your style of play... be it offensive (physical or magic), defensive, healing or support. Being able to equip any skills you wanted at anytime would discourage demon fusing by making you forego the effort of attempting to make a balanced and adaptable party.