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The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion |OT|

slayn

needs to show more effort.
I may very well be wrong, but I think the magika formula is a set formula like:

intelligence*unkown factor. (int*4 + birthsign maybe?)

Meaning that it does not matter when you max it. 100 is the max a stat can be naturally. You can push that over 100 with equipment that gives +int.

If two people have the same int and the same birthsign then they will have the same magika.

your health, on the other hand, is determined at the start of the game and you get an additional (current endurance)/10 hp per level. Meaning if two people are at the same level with max endurance the one that maxed endurance first will have higher hp.

If you are trying to go all out min/maxing your character, I am pretty sure endurance is the only stat that must be maxed as fast as possible for the greatest possible stats.
 

syllogism

Member
SNUG REVOL said:
Holy......

What kind of rig is that running on? DAMN. Man send me your ini file.

It's unplayable on 1920x1440 (3200+, 1gb, 7800gs), but runs well enough on 1280x960. I'm using (you should be able to find them at TES source):

808-Better Water-TESSource.esp
Landscape LOD replacement textures for Oblivion
ForeverView.esp

If I recall correctly, these are the changes I've made in the ini:

uGridDistantTreeRange=50
uGridDistantCount=50 (I haven't touched gridstoload)
bUseWaterReflectionsMisc=1
bUseWaterReflectionsStatics=1
bUseWaterReflectionsTrees=1
bUseWaterReflectionsActors=1
bUseWaterReflections=1
bAllow30Shaders=1

edit: I now have 854 spell points (Apprenctice 100 + High Elf 100 + Int 102 x 2 + 9x50 (equipment with Transcended Fortify Magica Sigils). Making custom spells with so much magica is fun.
 
LakeEarth said:
So what's great about a trainer again, other than not having to do the work? What you get trained in doesn't count for your level increasing?

And holy crap this thread. RE4 who?

Trainers are great for helping you level up stats that are either hard to level up or give you a significant benefit at Journeyman rank and above (Armorer, for instance). It's important to note that you can only train 5 total times per level, so make sure that you don't waste any potential stats and train the full 5 times for each level.

Also, if you train in your major skill, it does count towards your level increasing, but I would save trainers for minor skills that are harder to raise because you don't want to level too quickly. Training is also useful to build up the skill multipliers that you will get at each level up.

Armorer is a great stat to focus on training early in the game because once you get to level 50, you can repair magical armor. Here is where the Armorer trainers are:

---Low Level Trainers---
1. Eitar, who lives in a house just east of Leyawiin's Great Chapel of Zenithar
2. Tadrose Helas, who lives in the Bravil Fighters Guild

---Mid Level Trainers---
1. Rohssan, who lives in A Fighting Chance shop in the Imperial City Market District
2. Rasheda, who lives in Fire and Steel in Chorrol.

---Master Level Trainer---
Gin-Wulm, who lives at The Best Defense in Imperial City Market District
To get training from this character, you need to take a quiz. First you need to read the book: The Armorers Challange so you can answer his quiz with, "He won the Armorer's Challenge." If you don't read the book, the quiz option will not be available. The book is found in the First Edition Bookstore.
 

3rdman

Member
Sysgen said:
I have to echo how Brandon responded to my post. I hope Steve is listening. This quest and it's difficulty totally destroyed that special bond I had formed with the game. The implicit immersion, the believeability of the world. Turning down the slider two notches, which I've been doing, is understandable. It's impossible to balance a game of this magnitude. When your're confronted with a situation in which this quest puts you and have to take the drastic measure of totally nuking the difficulty, it's like why am I even bothering with the game.

The 3 soldiers that you are given
when you enter the basement
never survived for me so you don't have them
to accompany you outside
to face the mass multitude of enemies that you have to clear. Just obscenely disappointing.

I don't think its the difficulty of the enemies or the weekness of your charecter...the problem is that at lvl. 20 or so, you charecter isn't really ready to handle those baddies. If anything, they shouldn't be introduced until lvl. 25 or so.

Yea, my interest nosedived completely after this mess of a mission. The thief-build just isn't designed for the main quest it seems, and the default difficulty is outrageous at that level. So overwhelmed in frustration, I eventually just scaled that bitch way down. I've since been completely turned off from the game and decided to crack open KH2. Kvatch was just heinous. I'll casually finish up the faction stuff eventually, might screw with the AI here and there, but I'm so disenchanted right now.

But, c'mon, whats with the melodrama! Aside from that quest, the game hasn't thrown anything at me that I can't handle. No game can ever be perfect and for a game of this size and amibition, I'm just happy it exists. BTW, loved the Dark Brotherhood quests! Now to go through the Mage's Guild.
 

firex

Member
well, I need to level again to see if my magic changes by any predictable amount, but I don't have 450 magic, and I have 100 int on my breton (I know this because I have spells that cost about 250ish magic, and I don't have enough to cast them). So either the formula is right as you guys say, and I'm way bugged (which is a possibility anyway, how the hell did I hit level 25 and 100 int on a magic specialized character and not have at least 450 magic), or it works like endurance and you gain magic based upon how much you have at your level. the manual isn't very clear on this either... I could just have some kind of stupid bug. If I have some kind of disease/debuff lowering my overall magic, that's weird, cause it doesn't show up in red or anything.
 

slayn

needs to show more effort.
ah, I forgot about race.

according to the elder scrolls forums:

magika = 2*int + race bonus + birthsign bonus

so, for example, a high elf with mage and 100 int gets

2*100 + 100(high elf) + 50 (mage) = 350 magika.


with a non magic adding race and no magic birthsign, the best natural magika you can get is 200.
 
slayn said:
ah, I forgot about race.

according to the elder scrolls forums:

magika = 2*int + race bonus + birthsign bonus

so, for example, a high elf with mage and 100 int gets

2*100 + 100(high elf) + 50 (mage) = 350 magika.


with a non magic adding race and no magic birthsign, the best natural magika you can get is 200.

Lame. This is correct. I'm a High Elf with Apprentice Birthsign (ooh, magic burns so bad~) and I capped out at 400 magicka. Ugh... even with reductions through skill gains, 400 mana is not much AT ALL for high level spells.

I also wonder, how is defense handled? My warrior caps out at 85 which seems horribly low especially considering it doesn't even take a full set of Daedric to get that.
 
Seth C said:
I got a spell that costs over 2500 magicka to cast. What's the point?

Was it something you designed yourself? If so, then you obviously made it way too powerful.

As for the horse armor being up on the marketplace, I thought that it was suppose to be free. That sucks. I don't own a horse in game, so I'll be passing on that unless it ends up looking totally amazing.
 
Race:
Breton: +50 MP Bonus
High Elf (Altmer): +100 MP Bonus
Other: No Bonus

Sign
The Mage: +50 MP Bonus
The Apprentice: +100 MP Bonus
The Atronoch: +150 MP Bonus
Other: No Bonus

Stat Modifier
100 * 2 = 200 (maxed Int)

So, you're total Magika depending on the choices you picked can range from:
200 to 450 (unless I forgot another bonus)

Even 450 is not all that much when you look at some of the higher end spells. Unless mana is drastically reduced when you gain points in that skill at the higher levels. Anyone know what the rate of decrease is?
 

slayn

needs to show more effort.
My Arms Your Hearse said:
Lame. This is correct. I'm a High Elf with Apprentice Birthsign (ooh, magic burns so bad~) and I capped out at 400 magicka. Ugh... even with reductions through skill gains, 400 mana is not much AT ALL for high level spells.

I also wonder, how is defense handled? My warrior caps out at 85 which seems horribly low especially considering it doesn't even take a full set of Daedric to get that.

I believe that AC in this game is % damage reduction. If you have armor of 85, then you take only 15% damage from physical attacks. So were you able to get an armor of 100, it would mean you take no damage...
 

Karg

Member
Yeah the horse armor costing MP points? Thats meh, but I'm not a huge horse fan in the game so no big deal.

I've also thought about restarting with a all mage character but that MP cap is a little discouraging. Then again with a MP around 350-400 and high Willpower (regen MP faster) its not that bad is it? Anyone that has capped INT and Willpower reply with how it works?
 
slayn said:
I believe that AC in this game is % damage reduction. If you have armor of 85, then you take only 15% damage from physical attacks. So were you able to get an armor of 100, it would mean you take no damage...

That makes sense. Even though his armor capped at like level 22... he is at 36 or so now and nobody can really hurt him even though his AC hasn't improved. My battlemage is going to cap out in like 3 levels with Aegis at this rate...
 
Karg said:
Yeah the horse armor costing MP points? Thats meh, but I'm not a huge horse fan in the game so no big deal.

I've also thought about restarting with a all mage character but that MP cap is a little discouraging. Then again with a MP around 350-400 and high Willpower (regen MP faster) its not that bad is it? Anyone that has capped INT and Willpower reply with how it works?

The easy workaround is battlemage. This is what I'm doing. Ridiculously powerful. Mana regens pretty fast, but the capped mana totals are still really low for the fun high level spells. Having at least a shield and somewhat decent armor to tank with alleviate the problem greatly (block a few attacks and half your mana will be back up).

I think, however, it makes "pure mage" types COMPLETELY broken. Yea, you with your 0 AC cloth casting like two spells at level 30 that won't even tough the mob's HP...

Then again, the high level conjuratiosn seem pretty stout, so maybe cast one then run around like a girl.
 

Karg

Member
My Arms Your Hearse said:
The easy workaround is battlemage. This is what I'm doing. Ridiculously powerful. Mana regens pretty fast, but the capped mana totals are still really low for the fun high level spells. Having at least a shield and somewhat decent armor to tank with alleviate the problem greatly (block a few attacks and half your mana will be back up).

I think, however, it makes "pure mage" types COMPLETELY broken. Yea, you with your 0 AC cloth casting like two spells at level 30 that won't even tough the mob's HP...

Then again, the high level conjuratiosn seem pretty stout, so maybe cast one then run around like a girl.

Well my current character is a Nightblade. So thief/mage so I end up kiting every mob basically. Most things I try to go melee with chew up my light armor. But jumping like a nutjob and blasting whatever is chasing me with arrows and spells from rooftops has been fun! :)
 

SteveMeister

Hang out with Steve.
My Arms Your Hearse said:
The easy workaround is battlemage. This is what I'm doing. Ridiculously powerful. Mana regens pretty fast, but the capped mana totals are still really low for the fun high level spells. Having at least a shield and somewhat decent armor to tank with alleviate the problem greatly (block a few attacks and half your mana will be back up).

I think, however, it makes "pure mage" types COMPLETELY broken. Yea, you with your 0 AC cloth casting like two spells at level 30 that won't even tough the mob's HP...

Then again, the high level conjuratiosn seem pretty stout, so maybe cast one then run around like a girl.

Shield spells. The magnitude gets added to your armor rating. My character wears clothing enchanted with Shield spells that total up to an armor rating of 51. And I can make a Shield potion that adds 43 points (capping at 85 of course) that lasts almost 2 and a half minutes.

Also, elemental shields (Fire, Frost, and Shock Shield) increase your resistance to damage from that element *AND* increase your armor rating.

You can be a pure mage wearing *NO* armor and have just as good an armor rating as a tank in a full set of Daedric.
 

Karg

Member
SteveMeister said:
Shield spells. The magnitude gets added to your armor rating. My character wears clothing enchanted with Shield spells that total up to an armor rating of 51. And I can make a Shield potion that adds 43 points (capping at 85 of course) that lasts almost 2 and a half minutes.

Also, elemental shields (Fire, Frost, and Shock Shield) increase your resistance to damage from that element *AND* increase your armor rating.

You can be a pure mage and have just as good an armor rating as a tank in a full set of Daedric.

Hmmm....thats saucy. Didn't know the elemental shields increased armor rating as well, never thought to check. Is it a flat amount or %?
 

firex

Member
My Arms Your Hearse said:
Lame. This is correct. I'm a High Elf with Apprentice Birthsign (ooh, magic burns so bad~) and I capped out at 400 magicka. Ugh... even with reductions through skill gains, 400 mana is not much AT ALL for high level spells.

I also wonder, how is defense handled? My warrior caps out at 85 which seems horribly low especially considering it doesn't even take a full set of Daedric to get that.
That explains me having only 250 magic... bleh, totally defeats the purpose of playing a spellcaster with any birthsign that isn't mage/apprentice/atronach, and more to the point, any race but high elf.

Defense is a % reduction from what the manual says. So 85 defense means 85% damage reduction. I can kinda, sorta confirm this by casting aegis (the description says 50% shield) and then seeing my armor go up by 50.

and yeah, damage with a weapon seems determined by the base stat, and your weapon skill, with weapon skill being the far more important factor. I've been leveling blades as a minor skill and I've noticed weapons have gone way up in their listed damage, while the gigantic strength increases I had over the past 5-6 levels (well, not that gigantic, there was only one level of +5, but it's still been my most improved stat along with endurance) have made a different of about 2 or 3 on weapon damage (I can tell this because blunt weapons are still at skill 5 for me, so the listed damage increases I'm seeing can only be determined by my strength going up).

Ah well, now I'm hoping there's either some mods that address this lameness with magic (as IMO it really is game-breaking... it forces you into ONE race for an optimal mage, with three birthsigns) or an official patch. I figured I'd go with a birthsign that'd, you know, make up for my shortcomings (The Lady) and instead it turns out to inadvertantly screw my character over... and there's no way I could have foreseen that from the beginning.
 
Aegis will cost a fifth of your magicka or more with the way that mana is apparently capped. My alteration skill is 100 and Aegis is still 80 magicka to cast (and I'm a high elf with +200 mana... more than most will get). Also, don't you think it would be a bit much to use a potion /every single fight/? There is a LOT of fighting.

I just wish the caps weren't so low. I was actually looking forward to capping out my light armor skill and getting the 1.5 armor bonus, which I now realize is barely necessary to cap my armor.

It is good to know that my armor capping at 85 wasn't a bug like I thought it might be originally. I do think it should be harder to cap it out though.
 

SteveMeister

Hang out with Steve.
firex said:
Ah well, now I'm hoping there's either some mods that address this lameness with magic (as IMO it really is game-breaking... it forces you into ONE race for an optimal mage, with three birthsigns) or an official patch. I figured I'd go with a birthsign that'd, you know, make up for my shortcomings (The Lady) and instead it turns out to inadvertantly screw my character over... and there's no way I could have foreseen that from the beginning.

Spell casting costs go down as your skill increases. Get those magic skills up and you'll be able to cast the more powerful spells! Even the celebrated "Enemies Explode" spell only costs 168 to cast with a Master of Destruction (100 points) and no armor worn.
 

jarosh

Member
alright, can someone help me out here (steve, maybe)? it's about the gray prince sidequest (agronak gro-malog)...

he's already in the arena and i'm supposd to fight him (grand champion match) but i didn't do the gray prince sidequest. is there ANY WAY i can get him out of there so i can talk to him and complete the sidequest first? i know that it'll be MUCH easier to kill him in the arena after completing that quest (i guess he will basically not fight at all). so, is this quest lost forever now? would be a real shame :(
 

slayn

needs to show more effort.
another thing I've been curious about if anyone know. Does a sneak attack triple *all* damage or just the base damage?


say I have a bow so that it is:
base damage 10
10 fire damage over 1 second (is there any way to enchant something to be immediate damage rather than over 1 second)

and I shoot arrows that have a damage of 10.

so in total 30 damage from one arrow. Then I sneak attack. Do I do 90 damage? or is it 60 damage + 10 fire damage?
 
SteveMeister said:
Spell casting costs go down as your skill increases. Get those magic skills up and you'll be able to cast the more powerful spells! Even the celebrated "Enemies Explode" spell only costs 168 to cast with a Master of Destruction (100 points) and no armor worn.

Hmm. This is encouraging. My destruction skill is only still at around 60, and Enemies Explode is still rated at near 600 or so magicka... so I suppose it seems pretty massive reductions as time goes on. Of course, I'm still wearing light armor, so perhaps I should check without. At any rate, the cost reductions for high level Destruction seem more significant than for other schools, though this could simply be my impression (I did notice that conjuration spells go down 4-5 points per skill gain... it would seem that Destruction spells go down a good deal faster).
 

SteveMeister

Hang out with Steve.
jarosh said:
alright, can someone help me out here (steve, maybe)? it's about the gray prince sidequest (agronak gro-malog)...

he's already in the arena and i'm supposd to fight him (grand champion match) but i didn't do the gray prince sidequest. is there ANY WAY i can get him out of there so i can talk to him and complete the sidequest first? i know that it'll be MUCH easier to kill him in the arena after completing that quest (i guess he will basically not fight at all). so, is this quest lost forever now? would be a real shame :(

I think it's too late to do that if you're already fighting him. I can't remember, though -- are you forced to wear your Arena Raiment for that fight? If so, you could always take it off & be disqualified, that'll cancel the match. I'm not sure that the raiment is required for this particular match, though, and if not, that won't help you.
 
SteveMeister said:
Spell casting costs go down as your skill increases. Get those magic skills up and you'll be able to cast the more powerful spells! Even the celebrated "Enemies Explode" spell only costs 168 to cast with a Master of Destruction (100 points) and no armor worn.

Okay, so as your skill increases, the spell cost goes down drastically (at an exponential rate rather than a linear rate)? Thank God. I was worried that my measely 250 MP (when I max Int - I'm a Breton) would be insufficient when I got to the higher end spells. Too bad I'll only be able to cast the "Enemies Explode" spell once per battle though. SteveMester, are there any spells that cost more than 250 Magika even if the skill it's located under is maxed out? Or is 168 MP the biggest costing spell? Thanks. :)
 
cvkpaladin said:
Okay, so as your skill increases, the spell cost goes down drastically (at an exponential rate rather than a linear rate)? Thank God. I was worried that my measely 250 MP (when I max Int - I'm a Breton) would be insufficient when I got to the higher end spells. Too bad I'll only be able to cast the "Enemies Explode" spell once per battle though. SteveMester, are there any spells that cost more than 250 Magika even if the skill it's located under is maxed out? Or is 168 MP the biggest costing spell? Thanks. :)

You can make spells that cost more. There are also some that cost nearly as much (there is one Ice magic one... Blizzard or some such, that only cost about five less). I don't think there are any natural spells that cost more. It does seem that destruction costs go down at a significantly higher rate than other magic schools, though, at least from my observations.

It will still cost you a third of your mana to cast Aegis at 100 skill (lasts 1 minute, which isn't too long if you are fighting a couple of enemies).
 
Having a Magica limit does add some balance to the game. If you cast Enemies Explode say three times, how much of a challenge do you have? I'm playing a Battlemage right now, with more of a lean towards the mage part, and having a blast. I'm just getting started with him, but so far I'm tearing through enemies, and having plenty of magica and spells to go around, as long as I think strategically, pick my spots to use weapons or spells, and allow my magica to recharge before jumping into the next fight.
 

jarosh

Member
SteveMeister said:
I think it's too late to do that if you're already fighting him. I can't remember, though -- are you forced to wear your Arena Raiment for that fight? If so, you could always take it off & be disqualified, that'll cancel the match. I'm not sure that the raiment is required for this particular match, though, and if not, that won't help you.
unfortunately that's not required in this match. is there any other way to get disqualified? well, thanks anyway, i guess :(
 
My Arms Your Hearse said:
You can make spells that cost more. There are also some that cost nearly as much (there is one Ice magic one... Blizzard or some such, that only cost about five less). I don't think there are any natural spells that cost more. It does seem that destruction costs go down at a significantly higher rate than other magic schools, though, at least from my observations.

It will still cost you a third of your mana to cast Aegis at 100 skill (lasts 1 minute, which isn't too long if you are fighting a couple of enemies).

Oh well. Not all is lost. I'm still having plenty fun with my character. I also made a battlemage but it looks like more of my emphasis will be geared towards bashing people with my club. I was just hoping that at the later levels, my character would be basically invincible with the ability to destroy every monster in sight with powerful spells. Looks like it was not meant to be. :lol
 
Is anyone else having as much fun as I am running around looking for Nirnroots? Every time I see one my mouth waters as I say "my precious" to myself. I haven't been this bad since the dead birds in Condemned and the hidden packages in GTA. Without cheating by looking up Nirnroot locations, I have around 60 so far (I accidentally ate a few), but I need around 40 more to complete that quest so I have my work cut out for me.

It also really helps to go into the game knowing which ingredients you need for the various quests in the game. Every time I see something that I need, such as ectoplasm, I keep it, and it made that quest in the Fighter's Guild a breeze since I already had the required ectoplasm with me.

One thing I'd be interested to see from the forum members are the stats from the last page of the General Info tab such as active quests, quests completed, fame vs. infamny, number of nirnroots, etc.
 

Ecrofirt

Member
How is it that I breezed through the Kvatch castle seige at level 3 and you guys are having problems at level 20? I'd imagine the enemies scale up in difficulty with you, so the fight would probably be about the same.

Are there any mods that make the caves and whatnot look better? I'm playing on high texture quality and whatnot, and these walls and floors look like poop. They're terribly pixelated.
 

belgurdo

Banned
Ecrofirt said:
How is it that I breezed through the Kvatch castle seige at level 3 and you guys are having problems at level 20? I'd imagine the enemies scale up in difficulty with you, so the fight would probably be about the same.

Are there any mods that make the caves and whatnot look better? I'm playing on high texture quality and whatnot, and these walls and floors look like poop. They're terribly pixelated.

The problem with the level scaling is 1) that the enemies advance in stats way faster than you, and outside of console commands, making enchanted weapons that do 60 damage per strike, or messing with the difficulty slider, there's not much you can do, and 2) when you reach a certain level threshold the game throws stronger mobs at you. A level 1 at Kvatch may have to only face off against stunted scamps, while a level 20 will be going up against normal scamps, flame and ice atronaches, skeleton heroes, clannfears, a daedric lord or three, etc. It's just very illogical and busted
 
Man, I'm getting sick of playing an archer. I typically start quests with over 100 fucking arrows and I still run out too damn fast. Every fucking arrow I fling is a crit, but still takes 6-7 to kill. The whole pick up arrows you fire thing is rubbish too, you get maybe 1/3 back on the corpse and they disappear fast if they bounce off skeletons. Not to mention spirits don't give a single damn one back.

And the spawnrate of skeleton archers or arrows in boxes or chests or whatever is abysmal. I'm knee deep in the final thieves guild mission and I'm going to have to trudge back 5 zones to buy more goddamn arrows because I can't take a goddamn wraith in melee.
 

Baron Aloha

A Shining Example
syllogism said:
There's a scroll that does that in a chest next to Denel

Just make sure you stand right up against the pillar when you use it because its a 'touch' spell and you need to be close enough to the pillar to touch it. I made the mistake of using it at a distance (because the other 3 spells are projectiles) and I ended up wasting the scroll. I went all over the place looking for another one or another similar spell but I couldn't find it (and I went to nearly every single shop, guild, etc in the game). Finally, after like a week passed in the game and after I completed other quests the chest was restocked with all of the scrolls.
 

syllogism

Member
Seth C said:
Yes, well, that scroll has been used up already, so I need another.

Then you'll either have to be lucky enough to find one in a shop or make a custom spell with that effect (just buy any low level fortify magicka spell first)
 
Jeezus! Is there a way to buy lockpicks?! The Theif guild guy was selling them for a while, but after the first quest he stopped. I'm always breaking them because my lockpicking skills are weaksauce. Every quest I have now requires lockpicking and I don't have any left. My alternative is to sit on the couch for hours casting a lockpick spell on a door to max out my Alteration to allow me to create a spell. That's stupid lame though. If I could just buy a shitload of them I'd be happy. :(
 

BlueLegs

Member
Jeezus! Is there a way to buy lockpicks?! The Theif guild guy was selling them for a while, but after the first quest he stopped. I'm always breaking them because my lockpicking skills are weaksauce. Every quest I have now requires lockpicking and I don't have any left. My alternative is to sit on the couch for hours casting a lockpick spell on a door to max out my Alteration to allow me to create a spell. That's stupid lame though. If I could just buy a shitload of them I'd be happy. :(
See your fence, everytime i see them they always have 100+ of them.
 
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