thequickandthedead
Member
How much of the manga will the anime cover?
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The Flowers of Evil (Aku no Hana) |OT| There's a rotoscoped SHIT EATER in all of us
- Thread starter wonzo
- Start date
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Shinya Ohira just felt an intense slap on his face.
Oh my lord.
Time to make another thread!
Jex
Member
Shinya Ohira just felt an intense slap on his face.
RIP all good animators.
Who cares, all great art brings out a divisive reaction.. and aku no hana is no different.
Messofanego
Banned
Shinya Ohira just felt an intense slap on his face.
Who?
Shinya Ohira is an animator. He is known for his unique expressive and surrealist art style. He does not rotoscope. He does key animation. There was no rotoscoping in Kid's Story. The problem that I have with Aku no Hana is not the art. The character designs looking weird is fine. I have no problems with unique art styles. My problem is the rotoscoping itself. It is technically poor and distracting because I notice all the flaws which detracts from my experience. I should probably also add that implying that a talented key animator's work is rotoscope is something which will always set me off. It is insulting and disrespectful.
BlazingDarkness
Member
Episode 3 Oh my GOD
LOL
LOL
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
BlazingDarkness
Member
Episode 3 was brilliant. Hardly any repeated scenes/awkward stills (which 2 really suffered from) the animation was excellent, especially with smaller things like the hair/eyes and the voice acting was excellent!
It was nice to see more outside of the classroom, I'm glad it's following the manga closely in that regard.
I feel like people who weren't sure about Nakamura will grow to like her this episode.
Yamada cracks me up in every scene he's in.
The water in the river looked great, and overall I feel a lot of detail (like the girl bouncing the ball) is really well realised.
Next episode will be good to see
but I'm guessing it won't be until episode 5 where we see
<- manga spoilers there!
It was nice to see more outside of the classroom, I'm glad it's following the manga closely in that regard.
The scene with Nakumura stripping Kasuga I actually burst out laughing, shit is twisted
Yamada cracks me up in every scene he's in.
The water in the river looked great, and overall I feel a lot of detail (like the girl bouncing the ball) is really well realised.
Next episode will be good to see
the relationship with Saeki start to develop
the secret gym clothes wearing date
CornBurrito
Member
Wait episode 3 aired today? I guess it is low on Crunchyroll's priority list. 2 days until it comes out o nthere
Crash Station
Member
episode 3
Oh god, the way they handled that scene. lololol. That must have been pretty awkward for the live action actors.
Also
Oh god, the way they handled that scene. lololol. That must have been pretty awkward for the live action actors.
Also
Episode 3
Yep, this show continues to absolutely nail the general tone of the series,
Soooo good.
The pacing has also sped up from the first episode quite a bit as it's now almost up to chapter 5.
Yep, this show continues to absolutely nail the general tone of the series,
the beginning with Kasuga running around with the bag in his arms was even more pathetically hilarious than it was in the manga, but that paled in comparison to just how domineering Nakamura comes off as, especially in that scene.
The pacing has also sped up from the first episode quite a bit as it's now almost up to chapter 5.
Stephen Stills
Member
I love how unapologetically ugly it is. It comes across as very genuine. A nice counterbalance to all the generic moe stuff that has put me off anime for the last few years.
So yeah, count me amongst those who love this.
So yeah, count me amongst those who love this.
Episode three was pretty good - the 'strip' was by far the highlight, featuring the best cut so far as the rotoscoping goes. It's a sign of what it might look like as a show if they had more time and money, yet alas, for the most part they will remain faceless, jittery blobs.
Important to note that just as Nakamura latches onto Kasuga with the wrong image of him as a pervert, he in turn is now constructing an image of her in his head that's not quite aligned with reality. It's sad, in a way - because of the way they misunderstand each other, their misunderstandings will drive them. They set standards for each other that the other cannot quite possibly meet, mistaking it as insight. And yet the attempts to meet that standard drives the other to greater hysterics.
For a moment I wondered if this line was directed at the fans of the show. Shit eaters.
Important to note that just as Nakamura latches onto Kasuga with the wrong image of him as a pervert, he in turn is now constructing an image of her in his head that's not quite aligned with reality. It's sad, in a way - because of the way they misunderstand each other, their misunderstandings will drive them. They set standards for each other that the other cannot quite possibly meet, mistaking it as insight. And yet the attempts to meet that standard drives the other to greater hysterics.
For a moment I wondered if this line was directed at the fans of the show.
Shit eaters.This episode was quite disturbing. I loved Nakamura in it; we're getting to see more and more of her true colors, I think. After the events of the episode's end, I wonder if she'll treat Kasuga differently?
Though for being so essential to the premise, we haven't seen much of Saeki at all. I do hope that she'll become more prominent as the series goes on.
Though for being so essential to the premise, we haven't seen much of Saeki at all. I do hope that she'll become more prominent as the series goes on.
melichrous
Member
Well, episode 3 was great. I really love the atmosphere of this show, and I'm really looking forward to seeing where this is going.
Jex
Member
[Aku No Hana] - 3
What really helps sell this story for me is how shockingly well drawn (although, not literally of course) all the characters are. Their over the top manner of speaking, the heightened emotions (particularly in that great scene at the start where Kasuga is running around), the phrases they use and the reaction they have to the situations that occur. Kasuga, mumbling poetry to himself and looking down on other's for not understanding it really encapsulates an accurate a picture of what a pretentious teenager looks like. I love the little details too, such as the books Kasuga reads:
The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch? He could have been reading a much more traditional novel by Philip K Dick, such as Man in the High Castle, but because it's Kasuga he has to read one of Dick's more esoteric and nonsensical works because it's too deep for normal people.
What really helps sell this story for me is how shockingly well drawn (although, not literally of course) all the characters are. Their over the top manner of speaking, the heightened emotions (particularly in that great scene at the start where Kasuga is running around), the phrases they use and the reaction they have to the situations that occur. Kasuga, mumbling poetry to himself and looking down on other's for not understanding it really encapsulates an accurate a picture of what a pretentious teenager looks like. I love the little details too, such as the books Kasuga reads:
The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch? He could have been reading a much more traditional novel by Philip K Dick, such as Man in the High Castle, but because it's Kasuga he has to read one of Dick's more esoteric and nonsensical works because it's too deep for normal people.
Niconico streams the series in Japan: http://ch.nicovideo.jp/akunohana
Depending on your location in Japan you might also be able to watch it on TV, but it's probably easier to just stream it on Nico.
thequickandthedead
Member
I'm still baffled at how easily she overpowered him.
That too. Should be lifting more weight instead of books.
Trent Strong
Banned
I don't know what rotoscoping is, but whatever it is, this animation style is so much better than the usual infant-faced freak animation style you see in almost every other anime that it's not even funny. The voices are also a lot better than the infant voices every female character has in every other anime. And I can't believe people are complaining about the music. With the exception of the retarded end credits song, the music is really good. Much better than the goofy stuff in most anime. Man, I don't understand anime fans at all. If it wasn't for the dumb scene where the dude gets pushed into the chick's boobs, these first two episodes might be the first anime I've ever seen that I wouldn't be ashamed to be caught watching by someone in the real world.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
This show totally captures the feeling of being an egocentric paranoid teenager who overblows every little thing. It makes me feel ashamed of my middle school years.
Could I ask you to put the manga spoilers warning before the actual spoilers? I end up highlighting them anyway because I don't see the warning until it's too late. >___<
That scene is meant to be kind of unsettling and awkward.;p
Dedication Through Light
Member
3
Everyone is so rude and vulgar in this, iCant. Worst yet, Nakamura's expressions makes it come across more intense than it really is and how characters even react to her as she stares there blank faced. Kasuga is finally becoming pretty good character after the
library scene and then in the classroom
. Terrible that students here are just really all atrocious making Nakamura and Kasuga truly the only sane ones. Easily the best episode of the anime so far
Everyone is so rude and vulgar in this, iCant. Worst yet, Nakamura's expressions makes it come across more intense than it really is and how characters even react to her as she stares there blank faced. Kasuga is finally becoming pretty good character after the
nekkid
taking initiative and standing up for the disadvantaged
Hellsing321
Member
Episode 3
God damn that
Nakamura seems even more imposing in this than she does in the manga. Really good casting job.
God damn that
forced dressing scene
hosannainexcelsis
Member
Just watched the first episode, and what struck me immediately is how naturalistic it is. Normally with a setup like this, I'd expect either the protagonist to give us a monologue along the lines of "I'm so-and-so, I'm in X year at school, this is my life", or for obviously contrived writing that takes him around to the main characters he'll be interacting with and presents their defining quirks. But here we're just dropping into an average day in his life with no exposition provided. Instead, Kasuga's personality is gradually revealed by ordinary, unremarkable events: glances at Saeki, small talk with classmates, the drabness and loneliness of his daily routine.
This understated approach to the material will probably help a lot when it gets to the crazier events I understand the manga gets to.
I liked how over the course of the episode, we're slowly brought inside Kasuga's head. At first we're totally outside it; we see him walking to school with no indication of what's going on inside his mind. But he's walking by himself, and when he gets to school he seems somewhat aloof from his classmates. We start to understand what motivates him when he's surreptitiously reading a book under his desk during class (which is totally something I did back in the day), but breaks it off to admire Saeki during her reading, and later stares at her during gym. During the quiz, we hear for the first time his interior voice as he daydreams and the outside world falls away - though it is not really his voice, it is Baudelaire's which he appropriates for himself. When he gets home, we see the world of books that he lives in, and are brought one step deeper into his mind as Baudelaire is now accompanied by images of Saeki flowing through his mind, twisting themselves up with the poetry. This is also the point where the titular flower makes its appearance. Only at the end do we actually hear Kasuga speak for himself, voicing his love for Saeki and his concern about what she would think of his bookish world - and the bag drops and the flower blooms. The more I think about it, the more I realize what an exquisitely crafted piece of characterization this episode is.
One revealing detail is how Kasuga calls Saeki his "femme fatale". Now a femme fatale is a dangerous, wicked temptress, quite at odds with the pure angel that is Kasuga's general idealization of her. He may think that his reading of foreign literature elevates him beyond those uncomprehending fools around him, but yet he does not rightly comprehend the words that he reads. At the same time, I wonder if this is some foreshadowing of how Saeki's personality will turn out to be once/if we actually get to know her.
If there's one element that pulls me into this show more than anything else, it's the music. It's ambient and simple, yet so powerful. When a soft drone fades in, I can feel the tension growing inside me until it suddenly cuts off and I exhale the breath I've unconsciously been holding. It's not just the music itself; the moment when Saeki's bag drops from the cubby holes onto the floor, its thump echoes as if it dropped in a large, super-resonant hall instead of a classroom, and you can feel it thrust through Kasuga's heart as he realizes what is lying in front of him. The hypnotic ED song kicking in seals the deal. The sound direction is top-tier.
If the rest of the series can execute at this level, it'll be something I remember for a long time to come.
This understated approach to the material will probably help a lot when it gets to the crazier events I understand the manga gets to.
I liked how over the course of the episode, we're slowly brought inside Kasuga's head. At first we're totally outside it; we see him walking to school with no indication of what's going on inside his mind. But he's walking by himself, and when he gets to school he seems somewhat aloof from his classmates. We start to understand what motivates him when he's surreptitiously reading a book under his desk during class (which is totally something I did back in the day), but breaks it off to admire Saeki during her reading, and later stares at her during gym. During the quiz, we hear for the first time his interior voice as he daydreams and the outside world falls away - though it is not really his voice, it is Baudelaire's which he appropriates for himself. When he gets home, we see the world of books that he lives in, and are brought one step deeper into his mind as Baudelaire is now accompanied by images of Saeki flowing through his mind, twisting themselves up with the poetry. This is also the point where the titular flower makes its appearance. Only at the end do we actually hear Kasuga speak for himself, voicing his love for Saeki and his concern about what she would think of his bookish world - and the bag drops and the flower blooms. The more I think about it, the more I realize what an exquisitely crafted piece of characterization this episode is.
One revealing detail is how Kasuga calls Saeki his "femme fatale". Now a femme fatale is a dangerous, wicked temptress, quite at odds with the pure angel that is Kasuga's general idealization of her. He may think that his reading of foreign literature elevates him beyond those uncomprehending fools around him, but yet he does not rightly comprehend the words that he reads. At the same time, I wonder if this is some foreshadowing of how Saeki's personality will turn out to be once/if we actually get to know her.
If there's one element that pulls me into this show more than anything else, it's the music. It's ambient and simple, yet so powerful. When a soft drone fades in, I can feel the tension growing inside me until it suddenly cuts off and I exhale the breath I've unconsciously been holding. It's not just the music itself; the moment when Saeki's bag drops from the cubby holes onto the floor, its thump echoes as if it dropped in a large, super-resonant hall instead of a classroom, and you can feel it thrust through Kasuga's heart as he realizes what is lying in front of him. The hypnotic ED song kicking in seals the deal. The sound direction is top-tier.
If the rest of the series can execute at this level, it'll be something I remember for a long time to come.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
When Nagahama sat down to structure this show, he must have started by picking the ED song and then figuring out what would be the scenes most suited for it, because in each of the three episodes so far the song has kicked in at the perfect moment. The dissonant sprechstimme becomes the voices of evil calling out to Kasuga. In the first episode, it is the voice of temptation calling out from the gym bag, awakening that flower of evil lurking inside him. In the second, it is the voice of corruption from Nakamura, gleefully rubbing in Kasuga's face that his pure love from afar for Saeki is being degraded into carnal lust. In the third, it is the voice of ostracization coming from his classmates after he inadvertently identified himself with the outcast. Each scene marks one layer deeper in the pit he is digging for himself.
While I can't relate to Kasuga's particular circumstances, the nature of the pool of sin, guilt, and shame he falls into is very believable and resonates with my own experiences. The lure of the illicit, the internal voice screaming at you to stop even as you stretch your hand forwards, the freight at being discovered, the resolution to come clean that you can't actually muster the courage to go through with, the feeling that everyone is looking at you with judging eyes, the withdrawal away from others into yourself - it is a classic pattern that I am sadly familiar with. The gym clothes serve as the albatross around his neck, the physical reminder of his guilt that he cannot seem to eradicate. This comes to a climax when, yelling at Nakamura that he'll throw them into the incinerator and utterly destroy them, she instead violently forces him to identify with them by forcefully dressing him up in them. After all, even if he had managed to succeed in erasing the evidence, he wouldn't be able to erase the memory of it from his mind. Pretending like it never happened is not a course available to him.
One moment in the third episode I really liked was how the theme of the "corrupt pure-love story", as Oshimi calls it, was reflected in the music. What I like to call the "pure-love" theme enters in the first episode when Kasuga is observing Saeki in class. In contrast to the low register, dark color, and spare harmonies of much of the music, this theme is a major sonority, comparatively richly harmonized, played on a warm synth in a higher, "heavenly" register. This reoccurs several times when Kasuga is fantasizing about how perfect and otherworldly Saeki is. (Notice the scene where he explicitly identifies her with the moon.) In the scene with Nakamura and him by the river, when she sniffs his hand and says he must have been using it to rub Saeki's gym clothes on him, a similar warm synth with a major sonority enters but it is quickly disturbed by the introduction of dissonant notes sliding in and out, and gradually intensifying low rumblings. Just as Nakamura is corrupting Kasuga's supposedly pure, intellectual/spiritual love for Saeki into the realm of the basely sexual, so her pure-love theme is being corrupted by elements from the general style of music. Nagahama is getting great work out of the composer.
While I can't relate to Kasuga's particular circumstances, the nature of the pool of sin, guilt, and shame he falls into is very believable and resonates with my own experiences. The lure of the illicit, the internal voice screaming at you to stop even as you stretch your hand forwards, the freight at being discovered, the resolution to come clean that you can't actually muster the courage to go through with, the feeling that everyone is looking at you with judging eyes, the withdrawal away from others into yourself - it is a classic pattern that I am sadly familiar with. The gym clothes serve as the albatross around his neck, the physical reminder of his guilt that he cannot seem to eradicate. This comes to a climax when, yelling at Nakamura that he'll throw them into the incinerator and utterly destroy them, she instead violently forces him to identify with them by forcefully dressing him up in them. After all, even if he had managed to succeed in erasing the evidence, he wouldn't be able to erase the memory of it from his mind. Pretending like it never happened is not a course available to him.
One moment in the third episode I really liked was how the theme of the "corrupt pure-love story", as Oshimi calls it, was reflected in the music. What I like to call the "pure-love" theme enters in the first episode when Kasuga is observing Saeki in class. In contrast to the low register, dark color, and spare harmonies of much of the music, this theme is a major sonority, comparatively richly harmonized, played on a warm synth in a higher, "heavenly" register. This reoccurs several times when Kasuga is fantasizing about how perfect and otherworldly Saeki is. (Notice the scene where he explicitly identifies her with the moon.) In the scene with Nakamura and him by the river, when she sniffs his hand and says he must have been using it to rub Saeki's gym clothes on him, a similar warm synth with a major sonority enters but it is quickly disturbed by the introduction of dissonant notes sliding in and out, and gradually intensifying low rumblings. Just as Nakamura is corrupting Kasuga's supposedly pure, intellectual/spiritual love for Saeki into the realm of the basely sexual, so her pure-love theme is being corrupted by elements from the general style of music. Nagahama is getting great work out of the composer.
I speel my dreenk
Member
The talk around this has been so dominated by the divisive visual treatment, I'm glad to see more attention being paid to the music. It creates this amazing recursion of setting the tone, then being amplified in turn by the tense and unsettling scenes, and back and forth. The end credits piece is one of the most fitting things I've ever seen in any anime.
I do really love the rotoscoping, and live actors somehow make everything much more intense - Nakamura in particular:
she's so MENACING!
Episode 3
Wow, this was a really, really good episode. I'm really impressed with the direction and the mood tones here. The character interactions and dramatic arc is really impressive, and while I still have issues with the lip sync and some of the more awkward movements, the events of the episode made it much more bearable. Really compelling developments. The audio in the show is really an unsung hero too. The way sound and music is used to create and enhance the mood and how the main character is feeling is really spectacular.
Wow, this was a really, really good episode. I'm really impressed with the direction and the mood tones here. The character interactions and dramatic arc is really impressive, and while I still have issues with the lip sync and some of the more awkward movements, the events of the episode made it much more bearable. Really compelling developments. The audio in the show is really an unsung hero too. The way sound and music is used to create and enhance the mood and how the main character is feeling is really spectacular.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
Hey, I just sung its praises above! But yes, audio is often an overlooked component of anime, and film/TV at large for that matter, with people tending to pay more attention to the visuals. But even if you don't consciously realize it, music and sound can have a powerful effect on shaping your emotional state and pulling you into the atmosphere that a production wants to create. So I appreciate the careful attention paid to them in Flowers of Evil. Wolf Children and Hyouka are two other recent anime that come to mind where I was impressed by the music and sound direction.
That said, I actually want to comment on a visual aspect of the third episode; namely, its closing shot that Jexhius pointed out. I like the way it focuses on the book Kasuga is clutching to his chest - a book prominently marked foreign, no less. It is his defense mechanism, a barrier he holds against him to shield himself from the accusatory comments of his classmates. I haven't read The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch, so I don't know if its content is relevant, but I can't help but think that the use of "stigmata" is intentional. Stigmata are wounds experienced by devout Christian mystics in the location of the wounds Christ received during his crucifixion, thus identifying themselves with his unjust suffering. This fits with Kasuga's exaggerated sense of self-importance as compared to the petty people that surround his town, and I can see his reaction to this scene to be to think of himself as a martyr, unjustly persecuted by his classmates for his pure love they cannot comprehend.
Jex
Member
I've been singing the praises of the audio since the beginning!
I get the feeling that the books Kasuga reads aren't chosen because of their actual content, but rather intended to be intentionally obtuse works which might or might not actually have artistic value. It's a reflection of him as a character, trying to be more special than everyone else by believing that he consumes stuff which others would just "not understand". I don't think there is any deeper meaning into the books he has aside from the one used in the show's title. The "foreign sci-fi" part of the book cover was clearly intentional though, and a good observation.
Gentleman Jack
Member
He might as well be carrying 'Catcher in the Rye,' which is why even the manga rubs me the wrong way. The new arc there shows promise but I spent a lot of time loathing most of what I read before. I guess that's intentional?
BlazingDarkness
Member
Episode 4
Progressing exactly as I hoped!
I found this episode both funny and sinister,
really came out of nowhere lol, I actually like it!
The music overall continues to be brilliant! I feel the first quarter of the episode had one too many still shots, but once it kicked off it looked really great, and there was none of the awkward pop from still to motion like there was in earlier episodes.
I think it captures Saeki's beauty with her big smile really amazingly, and then how with Nakamura there's both the instances where she looks quite ugly with her unflattering facial expressions and then when she looks at Kasuga intently she becomes quite pretty.
I can only imagine somebody who's not read the manga to be thinking 'JESUS WHERE IS THIS GOING?!' and I love that about it, it's twisted. Having said that, knowing where it IS going only makes me want to see it more <3
Best show of the season for me
Progressing exactly as I hoped!
I found this episode both funny and sinister,
the contrast between happy Kasuga and pathetic Kasuga brings a lot of comedy, and I also loved how it contrasted Nakamura (with the foreshadowing with the crows and how she was clad in black) with Saeki (in her angelic white near the end)
New OP
The music overall continues to be brilliant! I feel the first quarter of the episode had one too many still shots, but once it kicked off it looked really great, and there was none of the awkward pop from still to motion like there was in earlier episodes.
I think it captures Saeki's beauty with her big smile really amazingly, and then how with Nakamura there's both the instances where she looks quite ugly with her unflattering facial expressions and then when she looks at Kasuga intently she becomes quite pretty.
I can only imagine somebody who's not read the manga to be thinking 'JESUS WHERE IS THIS GOING?!' and I love that about it, it's twisted. Having said that, knowing where it IS going only makes me want to see it more <3
Best show of the season for me
BlazingDarkness
Member
Aku no Hana - 4
Holy shiiiiiit. This is so gripping. I hate Nakamura so fucking much, dieeeee!!!1
Why am I get a School Days type sensation from this show!?
Is this good or bad? lol
#teamNakamura ;p
BlazingDarkness
Member
I hope they release some sort of OST for this, I'd so buy that.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
At this point I don't know.
I can just sense something BIG with a lasting impact from this show.
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