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The iPad Mini

mrklaw

MrArseFace
It's amazing how many people can't deal with a non-retina display now. It's like having to look at one is worse than having their eyeballs gouged out with hot pokers. How did they ever get by before the iPhone 4 came out?

when I upgraded from my ipad 2 to ipad 3, I was convinced the ipad 2 was fine and the ipad 3 was no big deal. But now, looking at my ipad 2 (my kids have it), it looks pixelly right from the off - first glance the fonts are horrible.

If you've never owned a retina ipad though I'm sure its still fine - its something you probably notice more when switching regularly back and forth.


I'd like to hear more impressions on size for magazines and books. For books I expect its better than the ipad - i used to use the kindle app in landscape with two pages because otherwise the pages felt too big (my kindle could do with being a tad larger though). But for magazines the larger ipad is perfect, and I can imagine it feeling a little cramped on the mini.
 

Fox Mulder

Member
Glad to see this thing is nice. I love how big my iPad 2 is though, so I don't see myself wanting a Mini. I do want a retina iPad though, I bet I'll grab a 3 or 4 at some point down the line.

I had an ipad 2 and really considered the 3 before I got the mini.

The 4 isn't a huge bump over the 3, you get retina, and you can get the 3 refurbished by Apple for a good price.
 
when I upgraded from my ipad 2 to ipad 3, I was convinced the ipad 2 was fine and the ipad 3 was no big deal. But now, looking at my ipad 2 (my kids have it), it looks pixelly right from the off - first glance the fonts are horrible.

If you've never owned a retina ipad though I'm sure its still fine - its something you probably notice more when switching regularly back and forth.


I'd like to hear more impressions on size for magazines and books. For books I expect its better than the ipad - i used to use the kindle app in landscape with two pages because otherwise the pages felt too big (my kindle could do with being a tad larger though). But for magazines the larger ipad is perfect, and I can imagine it feeling a little cramped on the mini.

With retina, it would be the perfect size for reading books. Not in landscape mode though. I have a subscription to Entertainment Weekly and it feels kinda squished on the Mini, but it felt that way on the regular iPad as well. It looks great though, and I love having an interactive magazine.
 

MajorPain

Member
I had an ipad 2 and really considered the 3 before I got the mini.

The 4 isn't a huge bump over the 3, you get retina, and you can get the 3 refurbished by Apple for a good price.

I keep hearing the ipad 4 is really ipad 3.5 but this article says there is a huge bump in graphics.

Source
 

TheExodu5

Banned
Just checked out a co-worker's iPad mini today. The screen...yeah it's a pretty big disappointment coming from my iPad 4. But the form factor? It's perfect. It's light and far more usable than the iPad 4 in a portable situation. You can hold it one handed in portrait mode, or you can hold it two handed in landscape mode and easily type away with both thumbs. The full sized iPad is more suited to couch use than true portable usage...it works a lot better if you can rest it on your lap or on a table.

Once the revision for the mini comes with a retina display and updated processor, this will be the way to go for most people, IMO.
 
6 months ago, people didn't even think the iPad 3 could be $500 because a retina display would be so ridiculously amazing.

Now they can't understand why they can't get the same resolution for $199-249 in a lighter 8" tablet.

It costs $188 to make, no idea how much a retina screen will add to the price

Like the device but that low res just doesn't look good at all especially when used retina devices like iPad 4 and iPhone 5
 

Vyer

Member
It costs $188 to make, no idea how much a retina screen will add to the price

Like the device but that low res just doesn't look good at all especially when used retina devices like iPad 4 and iPhone 5

I'd worry more about the battery to power it. If it would have to be heavier/thicker closer to the big ipad it would lose a lot of appeal IMO.
 

numble

Member
iPad retina resolution, it's time for apple to end put the iPad 1/2 resolution to pasture

I still would prefer a 10" iPad that is lighter than the iPad 2, and I prefer the lightness/thinness of MacBook Airs to the retina Macbooks. As long as there is that heavy premium associated with Retina, I will prefer lightness.
 

japtor

Member
I keep hearing the ipad 4 is really ipad 3.5 but this article says there is a huge bump in graphics.

Source
Another way of looking at it all is at the third iPad was like an iPad 2 with retina display, with the fourth being an iPad 2S with retina display. I'm hoping the next one is called "iPad 3" just to fuck with everyone (like "iPhone 5" is technically the 6th iPhone).
Doesn't it get like 12-13 hours now? I'd easily take a couple hours drop in battery for retina screen
10 hours. The retina display in the big iPad took around 2.5x the backlight power to work...but there's newer more efficient screen tech available if the volumes and costs are down enough.
Could Apple do that in the current mini form factor while not taking a massive hit in battery life and increasing costs?
Yeah, just depends on that screen tech basically. The displays can be more efficient than the current big retina display, and can be lighter and thinner, so they could cram more battery in with whatever space/weight savings they get from the screen to compensate for whatever power difference. Costs would be a question mark cause it'd be newer screen tech, but could be partially offset by the rest of the costs getting lower over time.
 

dallow_bg

nods at old men
10 hours. The retina display in the big iPad took around 2.5x the backlight power to work...but there's newer more efficient screen tech available if the volumes and costs are down enough.

I got nearly 13 hours from my post above.
And all the usage was with the screen on. (no streaming music or anything)
I think Apple lowballed it.

Hoping Anand can their tests soon.
 
Just got back from picking up a 16GB model. I really love this thing. Already wondering if I should have gotten a 32GB 4G model as I can see myself taking this thing with me everywhere I go.
 

TxdoHawk

Member
Just got back from fondling one at an Apple store. Wow. The form factor is just stunning, and the screen didn't look nearly as bad as I expected it to, despite owning a 3rd gen w/ Retina. Pretty sure I am selling my OG Retina and grabbing a 16GB in black...going to throw that up on Craigslist tonight and make sure I can get a decent price for it first, but after that it's on.

Already wondering if I should have gotten a 32GB 4G model...

Make sure you check the data plan prices first if you haven't already, you may not like what you see.
 
10 hours. The retina display in the big iPad took around 2.5x the backlight power to work...but there's newer more efficient screen tech available if the volumes and costs are down enough.

The only one i think I'm aware of is IGZO, which may depend on Sharp escaping bankruptcy in the next few months. In any case new backlight strategies are enormously expensive because of the failure rate - it's not worth building if half your panels can't be sold. Sharp is betting on IGZO to save the company, which speaks as much to the expense of manufacturing as it does to the promise of their technology.

Anyway, the bigger problem is that the mini is a "Trailer" device. To meet their cost targets/margins they are shipping with older/cheaper parts. But the Retina display requires 3 things:
a) More battery life (if they cut power draw, maybe 25% more)
b) A faster multicore CPU/GPU with double the bandwidth (A5X dieshrunk, I guess)
c) The more efficient display panel (if Apple goes with IGZO I'm guessing the 10" model will dominate Sharp's production line)

I guess it's possible we see all three of those improvements but of the three I think only b) is a lock for next year.
 
D

Deleted member 22576

Unconfirmed Member
Just spent like 20 minutes playing with this thing in the Apple store.
Its amazing. It makes the full size iPad feel like this gigantic albatross in comparison. Literally every single about the formfactor is more appealing to me. ESPECIALLY the asymmetrical bezel on the sides. Those skinny sides are the thing that puts thing into jesus-device category for me. They make thumb typing SOOOOOOO much easier and less straining. Obvoiusly the slightly smaller portrait keyboard is easier to type on as well, but couple with the small side bezel the iPad mini is the best iOS typing experience by far.


The screen was more rough than I was expecting. the "ads via the deck" blurb found on many websites is the best indicator of that. That shit is chunky. However, not a dealbreaker. The device overall felt much more responsive than my iPad three. I loaded up Giantbomb, the verge, a couple gaf pages and the youtube page and didnt have any tabs close. Im sure if I had stayed there browsing for like 2 hours I'd have seen some tab reloads, but in the limited time I Had the experience was great. Its everything I love about the iPad but in a much better formfactor.

goddamn.

Still have two weeks until the cellular models hit so I have a bit of time to stew on this, but as of now I'm totally gonna sell my ipad3 and get one of these babies.
 
D

Deleted member 22576

Unconfirmed Member
They really need to change notification center on the ipad to look like it does on osx. Have it come in from the side "beneath" the homescreen.
 

The Real Abed

Perma-Junior
They really need to change notification center on the ipad to look like it does on osx. Have it come in from the side "beneath" the homescreen.
No. Because then it would fuck with some apps gestures. The top is the most innocuous they can get.


The store won't have the 16's yet. They only have 32's right now. I don't need a 32GB model. Especially not for $100 more. Crossing my fingers for this week sometime.
 
D

Deleted member 22576

Unconfirmed Member
Eh, they make it like three fingers or something. Who knows. Anyway, I had an observation I can't quite articulate. With the new devices. (iphon5, mini, etc..) the hardware looks significantly more modern than the os does. look at the diamond cut edges etc.. the little candy gloss icons and blue hues on the menu bars look terrible. It really drove home how dated ios looks and feels seeing it on this super modern futuristic device. The way you interact with ios is perfectly fine, but just the way it looks and feels seems very outmoded. and yes, im aware of the recent shakeups in higher management at apple and i really hope their new head of human interaction intends to fix what I see.
 
Apple is saying they sold three million iPads since Friday. Not specifying how many of those are minis but I'd guess they've got to account for most of that number.
 

TheExodu5

Banned
The problem with the iPad 3 was always obvious: 4x the pixels with only 2x the graphics performance. With the iPad 4, we're finally back to par.
 

dwebo

Member
people, myself included, were hoping the display would make up for the low resolution with other metrics. well, turns out it largely doesn't.
http://www.displaymate.com/iPad_mini_ShootOut_1.htm
The iPad mini is certainly a very capable small Tablet, but it does not follow in Apple’s tradition of providing the best display, or at least a great display – it has just a very capable display. What’s more, the displays on existing mini Tablets from Amazon and Google outperform the iPad mini in most of our Lab tests as documented below in the Shoot-Out Comparison Table. Some of this results from constraints within the iPad product line, and some to realistic constraints on display technology and costs, but much of it is due to a number of poor choices and compromises.

Lower Screen Resolution:
Many people were expecting a Retina Display like the new iPad 3, but that would have required a 326 Pixels Per Inch display with more than 4 times the screen area of the iPhone 5. That is currently out of the question for both cost and manufacturing volume and yield since it would need to be Low Temperature Polysilicon. Given that Apple has been sticking with either 1024x768 or 2048x1536 iPad displays for compatibility reasons, that meant the iPad mini had to be 1024x768 with 163 Pixels Per Inch. But that’s now considered to be rather on the low side, especially given that the $199 Amazon Kindle Fire HD and Google Nexus 7 both have considerably sharper displays with 216 Pixels Per Inch. So Apple, the inventor of Retina Display marketing, now has a significant competitive shortfall on this very issue…

Improving Screen Sharpness:
Apple could have increased the iPad mini Screen Resolution in the same way as it did for the iPhone 5 – simply having older Apps running Letterboxed inside a higher resolution display, which would have been a great way to provide a higher Pixels Per Inch display. iOS and newer Apps would have used the full higher Resolution – that didn’t happen. While screen Resolution gets lots of attention from both consumers and marketers – it’s really only critical for providing visually sharp text – but that applies for most applications running on a Tablet. As we have pointed out a number of times, the best way to increase visual text sharpness on any display is by using Sub-Pixel Rendering, which Apple should now implement in order for the iPad mini to become competitive on visual sharpness…

Viewing Widescreen Content:
All of the iPads have a 4:3 Aspect Ratio screen, rather than the 16:10 or 16:9 Aspect Ratios found on most other Tablets. One advantage of the iPad’s more square 4:3 screen shape is that it lends itself better for use in both Landscape and Portrait viewing modes. Another is that a 4:3 screen is often better suited for reading because it has the same Aspect Ratio as content on 8.5x11 inch documents. But another major application for mini Tablets is viewing widescreen video content with Aspect Ratios of 16:9 (and higher for many movies). On the iPad mini 16:9 content is viewed Letterboxed with only 1024x576 Resolution, which is getting pretty close to Standard Definition video rather than true High Definition 1280x720 video on most other mini Tablets like the Amazon Kindle Fire HD and Google Nexus 7. A much better screen resolution choice for the iPad mini would have been 1280x960, because it could then deliver true HD video content, satisfactory Letterboxing for older 1024x768 Apps, plus much sharper text for reading…

Higher Screen Reflectance:
The iPad mini is the most portable of the iPads so it will often be used under brighter ambient lighting than full sized Tablets. As a result it’s more important for the mini to have a low Reflectance screen, otherwise reflections from the higher ambient lighting will reduce screen visibility and wash out the images and colors. Most displays are now coming with lower Reflectance screens. The Amazon Kindle Fire HD and Google Nexus 7 managed to accomplish this, even at their low price points, but the iPad mini comes with an unusually high Reflectance – it reflects 53 percent more ambient light than the Nexus 7 and 41 percent more than the Kindle Fire HD. This is another poor choice and another significant competitive shortfall…

Smaller Color Gamut:
The previous generations of LCD Tablet and Smartphone displays had smaller Color Gamuts in order to improve their screen Brightness, Power Efficiency, and Battery Running Times. But that’s been changing due to both technology and competition. Full standard Color Gamut displays not only deliver more accurate and vivid colors, but are better in high ambient lighting because the additional color saturation improves image contrast. While the iPad 2 and iPhone 4 had reduced 61-64 percent Color Gamuts the new iPad 3 and iPhone 5 have full 100 percent standard Color Gamuts. So it was a surprise and major disappointment for the iPad mini to arrive with an antiquated smaller 62 percent Color Gamut, especially considering that the Amazon Kindle Fire HD and Google Nexus 7 both managed to deliver considerably larger 86 percent Color Gamuts. That’s another poor choice and another significant competitive shortfall…
 
people, myself included, were hoping the display would make up for the low resolution with other metrics. well, turns out it largely doesn't.
http://www.displaymate.com/iPad_mini_ShootOut_1.htm
While I won't try to argue with those results - displaymate knows his shit - to call this a "significant competetive shortfall" is absurd in real terms. Anyone who thinks a lower color gamut is going to make any kind of dent in terms of the mini's competitiveness against the Fire and Nexus 7 is nuts. I've used all three and they're all good in their own ways but the mini will easily outsell the Fire and N7 combined, it won't even be close.
 
D

Deleted member 22576

Unconfirmed Member
The display is definitely more rough than I had expected. The pixels look even more recessed than the iPad3. Which already look super recessed compared to the 4S. I think its just one of those things though. I'm happy to take a step backwards. Its not like they'll never fix it.

My plan is to get rid of my iPhone and just be a huge nerd who rocks his mini everywhere (in an elegant hand made felted wool case of my own design obvoiusly) then i can just get a prepaid sim and use old RAZRs and nokia phones. Gon' get that gold razr and a lime green PEBL. Shit, might even get a ROKR up in here. Thats not even counting old sony ericsson devices.

Should free up like 35 bucks a month, not to mention one less device
 
still waiting for 16gb black to show up on stores. only ones i found are 64gb and theres no way im getting that one. cmon apple send more!

im really enjoying the ipad 4 in the meantime. its definitely heavy and annoying to just hold up with one arm so im looking at the mini to alleviate that. however the performance is out of this world. holy shit is this thing fast and smooth. i have like 30 apps open, some of them games and stuff and it works as smoothly and quickly as if i had nothing. just an all around pleasant and beautiful experience.
 

Fox Mulder

Member
Apple is saying they sold three million iPads since Friday. Not specifying how many of those are minis but I'd guess they've got to account for most of that number.

I'm sure. People were hot for them when I was getting mine the other day. Bestbuy had none of the 16, but I wanted 32 anyways. I guess Apple didn't want to specify because the 4 is selling lower than they expected. It's a minor upgrade to most people, and you can get the 3 for a good price refurbished from apple. I don't see any real reason to buy one.
 
You also don't see a problem with the screen. So you're obviously not the type of person that notices these things and that's fine.
Awesome word-twistage there, A+, would find to be bullshit again. Obviously the difference is noticeable, I just don't find it to be a deal breaker. I also have reasonable expectations for what's possible in terms of display yields, battery performance and overall cost, which is why I didn't just bust out a knee-jerk "no retina LOL" like so many others did when it was first shown.
 
No one is saying the size is the problem.

Late last week people had a problem with some of us saying the Mini was the perfect size, and would most likely be the dominant iPad in sales in the not-to-so distant future unless Apple continues to cut its nuts off by using 2 year old processor and screen tech.
 
Awesome word-twistage there, A+, would find to be bullshit again. Obviously the difference is noticeable, I just don't find it to be a deal breaker. I also have reasonable expectations for what's possible in terms of display yields, battery performance and overall cost, which is why I didn't just bust out a knee-jerk "no retina LOL" like so many others did when it was first shown.
classic damned if you damned if you don't situation for Apple. The bitching/breakdowns/analysis of shortfalls would still be there if they went retina and it was more expensive and had worse battery life and was heavier.
 

leng jai

Member
Awesome word-twistage there, A+, would find to be bullshit again. Obviously the difference is noticeable, I just don't find it to be a deal breaker. I also have reasonable expectations for what's possible in terms of display yields, battery performance and overall cost, which is why I didn't just bust out a knee-jerk "no retina LOL" like so many others did when it was first shown.

That's what I'm saying Captain Defensive. You don't find it a deal breaker and I'm sure a lot of people don't either. You're not in the market segment that cares enough about this stuff which also isn't the market that Apple is aiming for obviously. For the record I never found the iPad 3 to underperform either because I never played games on it. It was clearly lacklustre when it came to running the high end apps at native resolution.

I think it was absolutely the right decision for Apple to launch the Mini in this state. It gives them a clear upgrade path and a decent price. The sales have obviously reflected this is well. For me personally I won't be getting it though until it gets a Retina upgrade.
 

MRORANGE

Member
well I've been using the ipad mini in the real world today in my computing class, used it for about 6 hours has gone down to around 30% which is pretty damn good, most people loved the form factor and some ipad 3 users are tempted to switch.

Nobody gave two shits about the resolution, the only obvious complaints was that the app store for ipad is still quite limited and trying to replace it as a laptop is still out of the question.

I'm really considering getting a apple TV, this thing is like a mini home media server remote.
 

Fox Mulder

Member
well I've been using the ipad mini in the real world today in my computing class, used it for about 6 hours has gone down to around 30% which is pretty damn good, most people loved the form factor and some ipad 3 users are tempted to switch.

Nobody gave two shits about the resolution, the only obvious complaints was that the app store for ipad is still quite limited and trying to replace it as a laptop is still out of the question.

I'm really considering getting a apple TV, this thing is like a mini home media server remote.

I've been thinking about an Apple TV as well, as I cut the cord and get my shows off iTunes.
 
Late last week people had a problem with some of us saying the Mini was the perfect size, and would most likely be the dominant iPad in sales in the not-to-so distant future unless Apple continues to cut its nuts off by using 2 year old processor and screen tech.

Perfect size for you, let's not impose views on others

I've been thinking about an Apple TV as well, as I cut the cord and get my shows off iTunes.

With iTunes Match, Apple TV suddenly becomes a great product, I like it a lot
 

KtSlime

Member
I'm sure. People were hot for them when I was getting mine the other day. Bestbuy had none of the 16, but I wanted 32 anyways. I guess Apple didn't want to specify because the 4 is selling lower than they expected. It's a minor upgrade to most people, and you can get the 3 for a good price refurbished from apple. I don't see any real reason to buy one.

Apple never breaks down the sales of individual products, only the main categories.
 
Perfect size for you, let's not impose views on others

The reason Mini exists is because the original iPad isn't the perfect size. Jobs was wrong about that. Horribly wrong. I'm not saying what's right or wrong for you. I'm saying what I ultimately believe will be the flagship size iPad for Apple.
 
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