you have to move out of his LOS for him to play with the pot, otherwise he'll get distracted by you on the other side of the gate. so you have to walk up on the platform, wait for him to start playing with the pot/chain, then jump down and get ready to push the thing under the gate when it goes up. seemed pretty simple.
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The Last Guardian |OT| In my memories, the monster always has kind eyes
- Thread starter Agram
- Start date
FrankWza
Member
I thought 1 part was very simple as well.
The water puzzle when trico needs to dive and send you up onto a ledge. Only reason it was simple for me was when i reached the first water area i went to get trico some barrels and he jumped in and popped me up.
I also had to reload a checkpoint when trying to revive trico with a nap.
Depends on everyones tolerance and how many issues per playthrough. Still a great game but i feel even with my issues i may have gotten off easy.
Played another 2 hours today, just got past the
area so I think I'm something like halfway through?
Absolutely adoring this game, despite Trico ignoring my orders from time to time (getting him to
was hell). Zero issues with the controls too, I actually really like how weighty they feel. This is climbing my 2017 GotY list real quick 
coliseum
Absolutely adoring this game, despite Trico ignoring my orders from time to time (getting him to
catapult me in the coliseum
Alex_Mexico
Member
I'm stuck!!!
I'm frustrated. What am I supposed to do?
I fell through the woodfloor while pushing a huge pot. Now I'm stuck in an underground green lake with one crate. Trico is looking at me but won't throw me his damn tail. I tried positioning myself below him and nothing.
I'm frustrated. What am I supposed to do?
The tail is supposed to fall through a hole in one of the far corners of the room, it sometimes gets caught in the rafters though. It's a common issue and my least favorite 'puzzle' in the game tbh. If the tail hasn't fallen down at all at the far... right (if you're on the ledge out of the water and looking at the wall across from you, it's to the right) try swimming over there and calling trico for a bit. I think he's supposed to walk over there and break some of the boards before his tail'll come down.
I just did that part.
Trico should be scratching some of the boards on the other side of the room from where the crate was. Push it into the water and push it towards the end of the room where the boards are falling. Trico should break some of the boards and allow you to climb the crate and into its tail.
Alex_Mexico
Member
Thanks. That worked.
It almost got caught in the woodwork. I don't understand why he couldn't just throw it through the whole that was already there from which he was watching me.
victreeb3l
Member
Just realized how much this game and some of its themes reminded me of How To Train Your Dragon. Now I want a HTTYD game like TLG
I am current playing the game again, and I just finished that puzzle. It seems like you have to let Trico do his own thing and pull on the chain. Try not make any noise or be visible to him, otherwise he will stop and look at you and try to bump the gate to open it
The ending is going to stick with me for the longest time. I was in tears. It was perfect.
Yeap. Those are my rankings for Ueda's games as well. SOTC takes top spot but TLG is pretty high up there as well. Followed finally, by Ico.
Dangansona
Member
Everyone is saying R1+x is cancel, but isn't it stay/drop down? I'm early in the game but the narrator says that it's mirroring the boy's actions, so I think there is a better mapping to his command than cancel.
I second this. I used it when it came to the
coliseum
Either way works fine and makes sense, I guess. Definitely not sure why people spend so much time doing the same thing(just pushing it even when Trico stops to look at you when you are close) and getting frustrated.
I didn't know you can do this. That would make it even easier. Three simple/logical ways to beat the puzzle...I dont see how its the AI's fault here.
My biggest incentive to replay the game is to check all the parts people tend to get stuck on. See how much of it is luck and if there are foolproof ways of getting passed them.
I had zero problems with Trico's AI. Not trying to be a dick (but already kind of being I guess) but I think it speaks more about the person that is playing than the game's AI when I see some posts about how "broke" certain stage is.
The game is a masterpiece in puzzle design, and seeing some reductive statements here about it are really insulting to the amazing work and results it has accomplished.
The game is a masterpiece in puzzle design, and seeing some reductive statements here about it are really insulting to the amazing work and results it has accomplished.
Dangansona
Member
Actually just did the puzzle yall are talking about! I rolled the thing up the ramp, than pulled it off so it was vertical by the gate. Then you wake for Trico to give it a good tug (don't have the food nearby) and then push the thingy under the gate as a doorjam.
I am currently playing the game a second time, and I am having almost no issues with the controls and Trico. Trico is obeying my commands pretty much when I tell him to do something. I think what people need to realize is that you can't give Trico several commands at once. Know which command you want him to do, and make sure to position the camera at the object/location you want. The last is crucial!
Dangansona
Member
Yup, playing through it my first time and I'm having little issue with commands. Takes max like three attempts. I do get a little too hang up on Tricos body for my liking at times though.
Bronetta
Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
Wait you mean flipping the pillar's optional?
I saw the circular object and the ramp. Its a physics based game so I wondered if the boy could push it up the ramp. Once up, I wondered if the boy could push it off the ledge and what would happen. It landed on its side which I wasnt expecting.
Trico was playing with the chain but as I got near the gate he stopped and started staring at the boy. I wondered if it was hungry so I went to go back and get the food barrel but Trico started playing with the chain again when I walked away. Then I wondered if I just had to sneakily push the pillar into the door whole Trico was busy playing with the chain (he starts with light pulls before really yanking it up when you're out of sight)
A lot of I wonder if I can do this and what happens if I do that which makes the solutions so very satisfying when you finally figure them out.
If you try something repeatedly and it doesnt work, the solution may lie elsewhere. That goes for guiding Trico as well (on my playthrough Trico guided me more than I guided him) although some people claim to have had AI glitches which I havent experienced so I cant say anything about that.
FYI, the last guardian companion book is on sale - https://www.amazon.com/dp/3869930799/?tag=neogaf0e-20
I preordered the companion book. Looking forward to it. I'm hoping it sheds a little light on the development hurdles, but I'm also looking forward to learning more about the game/world.
I plan on getting the plat since I adored this game. Minor technical issues aside, I thought the game was amazing.
To be honest, I'm not sure what R1+X and R1+Circle do (R1+Circle = when the boy claps his hands?). I generally used R1+X as a way to discipline Trico, but I'm not sure if that's the intention. When I needed him to catch/eat a barrel, I'd often press R1+X to get his attention. I noticed during times when I was not holding a barrel, if I pressed R1+X he'd sort of growl at me and his ears would flatten against his face.
I plan on getting the plat since I adored this game. Minor technical issues aside, I thought the game was amazing.
To be honest, I'm not sure what R1+X and R1+Circle do (R1+Circle = when the boy claps his hands?). I generally used R1+X as a way to discipline Trico, but I'm not sure if that's the intention. When I needed him to catch/eat a barrel, I'd often press R1+X to get his attention. I noticed during times when I was not holding a barrel, if I pressed R1+X he'd sort of growl at me and his ears would flatten against his face.
Bronetta
Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
SmiteOfHand
Member
Thanks for the heads up!
Cave Johnson
Member
This is what completely baffles a lot of people. Trico is an independent AI but the game hasn't removed the emergent physics that goes along with it. It was pretty damn obvious that the more Trico plays with the chain, it will eventually come to point where it will have to pull it.
And that would be the moment to lock the gate with the wheel axel.
See, what people confused with "bad" game design is actually a framework of simple scripted emergent scenarios in its early stage. The fact that no other game is doing this takes away any sense of familiarity established by other titles. The path to persistent AI makes sense with an animal because its easily to compartmentalize the framework, than let's say a human. The building blocks have already been there, it's just the mindset of players that has to adjust otherwise. It's like introducing a metroidvania level design to someone who never experienced anything else than linear 2D side scrollers.
EatinOlives
Member
That's insane, while a couple of times
Trico did not pull the lever all the way
for him to come back and lift it
This is relevant here: https://twitter.com/futanaright/status/817715101956526080
Caipirinha
Member
In the end what worked for me was simultaneously calling Trico and mashing the face buttons to struggle. It worked.
Props on the BS avatar btw.
Just realized how much this game and some of its themes reminded me of How To Train Your Dragon. Now I want a HTTYD game like TLG
It's funny because I just finished the movie and it reminded me of TLG a lot! Great movie just because of that.
YankeeDonB
Member
Just started this - love Trico, and finding it pretty intuitive to deal with him/her. Requires a fair bit of patience at times, but nothing compared to real deal experimental animal training. The inability to reward or signal approval to Trico with temporal precision is disappointing - I was hoping we could actually do some shaping of the AI, Sniffy the Rat style. Still, often feels like interacting with a real animal, which is an achievement.
That camera though. Maybe the most annoying camera I've encountered. The way it moves I feel almost like there's a rubber band attached to the right stick that I'm constantly fighting.
That camera though. Maybe the most annoying camera I've encountered. The way it moves I feel almost like there's a rubber band attached to the right stick that I'm constantly fighting.
victreeb3l
Member
Awesome, pre-ordered. Thanks!
HTTYD is amazing. I just love stories about human-beast bonding.
thatJohann
Member
Has anyone discovered what's the best way to command Trico? Is it R1 + analog stick direction or is it R1 + triangle or x or circle? Ugh. I hate that I don't know how to command this fucker.
Preordered. I'm really surprised at how much I'm into this game. I should uh, play SotC someday I guess.
Depends on what you're trying to get it to do? If you want him to move, analog stick. If you want him to jump, triangle. Action is circle and cancel is cross.
I'm starting to believe being a cat owner prepared me for this game in ways I couldn't fathom.
The ICO and SotC HD bundle is on sale on PSN at the moment (63% off).
TLG is an amazing game, but Shadow of the Colossus still takes the throne. Sense of scale, music, animation, gameplay, puzzles and lore. I can't believe that game came out on the PS2 11 years ago.
Thanks, I just pre ordered, It had to be done.
Glad you got past it. That one got me too.
Thanks, Nico is just a badass and George is my favourite video game character, an American with a British sense of humour is A ok in my book. BS is the first game I ever completed too, I even rang a helpline for the goat, ah the days before good internet.
Just beat the game. Amazing! I found the AI to be very well done. I never got stuck on a puzzle for more than about 10-15 mins and they all had good, organic solutions. Huge feeling of accomplishment when you figure it out.
After beating it I found out I only got 30 out of 96 barrels though. Man! I thought I got them all.
After beating it I found out I only got 30 out of 96 barrels though. Man! I thought I got them all.
I finished the game yesterday, but couldn't find the time to write about it. You know what I find most interesting about Ueda games? The way they have of making you forget all the awful shit in them and focusing on the feels and good stuff.
Before writing this, I went back to reread my reviews of Ico and SotC. Just going by memory, I mostly remember Ico as a game where you protect as a precious little girl with tender moments, especially when you potentially get seperated from her. In contrast, I remembered complaining that Yorda was a stupid cow, but I completely forgot the ridiculous lengths she goes to be unhelpful until I reread my own interview detailing the times she just sat on her lazy ass while I did all the work. Similarly, I remember the majesty and loneliness and epicness of Shadow of the Colossus, only dimly remembering how Wander was the pinnacle of suck with his 5 second recovery animation and how he'd flail about at the tiniest movement of the colossus resulting in times where you'd have to wait literal minutes before you stab a weakspot.
It's been only one day, and already TLG is continuing that tradition. So while the frustrations and flaws I felt while playing are still fresh in my mind, when I actually think about the game itself, I think only of the good times I had with the game, and I feel myself getting ready to excuse a great deal that may go wrong.
Like, lets be real, you barely ever get games with complex buddy AI that don't get glitched in some way. So while it annoyed the piss out of me that Trico didn't go to the spot I needed him to for a literal half hour at one point even though I solved the puzzle and knew where to go next, sometimes that shit just happens, so I'm willing to tenaciously forgive it a little. It sill gets maddening sometimes like one memorable time were I am telling Trico to go forward for like 15 seconds, only for him to finally go the opposite direction. I don't accept the "it behaves like a real animal" explanation either, since at that point Trico should be listening to me. Yet, I don't think about that, but instead about how great Trico acts most other times.
It's awe inspiring how much like a real animal Trico acts. There is scarcely a moment where the illusion breaks, and THAT'S what makes it amazing. It reminds me of how Ellie in the Last of Us has a reply for almost any situation, and caused one reviewer to jump after she had a unique response to his meandering around for 15 seconds focusing on one particular object. That kind of consistency creates a kind of immersion that is extremely rare. It's typically easy to break the illusion of reality with companion AI, and Trico doesn't, and that's pretty amazing.
So, don't get me wrong, there are legitimately great things and moments in the game, and it's a unique and excellent experience, pretty much all of them revolving around Trico. Still, ignoring Trico's magnificence, there are extreme and numerous shortcomings that should be standing out to me.
Maybe their mostly on the technical side, but these are serious issues that impacted the enjoyment of my game! They should stick in my mind as much as anything, but they just fall away to all the good stuff that the game has to offer. Give it a week, I'll forget these were problems in the first place.
This is frustrating for me because I am very much not the kind of critic that believes "games are only as good as you remember them, so if you forgot it, it must not be important." That's a bad way of thinking about things because it ignores that people are ultimately shitty at remembering things in general. The best way to review a game is to talk about it comprehensively. But Ueda just has a frustrating way of worming himself into the best light possible. I feel like I'm fighting to maintain as objective a view of his work as possible since the flaws (substantial ones) just fall away in front of everything else.
Ultimately, that's the best way to describe the experience this (and Ico and SotC). Experiences that stick with your in a good way, for all the shit they put you through.
Before writing this, I went back to reread my reviews of Ico and SotC. Just going by memory, I mostly remember Ico as a game where you protect as a precious little girl with tender moments, especially when you potentially get seperated from her. In contrast, I remembered complaining that Yorda was a stupid cow, but I completely forgot the ridiculous lengths she goes to be unhelpful until I reread my own interview detailing the times she just sat on her lazy ass while I did all the work. Similarly, I remember the majesty and loneliness and epicness of Shadow of the Colossus, only dimly remembering how Wander was the pinnacle of suck with his 5 second recovery animation and how he'd flail about at the tiniest movement of the colossus resulting in times where you'd have to wait literal minutes before you stab a weakspot.
It's been only one day, and already TLG is continuing that tradition. So while the frustrations and flaws I felt while playing are still fresh in my mind, when I actually think about the game itself, I think only of the good times I had with the game, and I feel myself getting ready to excuse a great deal that may go wrong.
Like, lets be real, you barely ever get games with complex buddy AI that don't get glitched in some way. So while it annoyed the piss out of me that Trico didn't go to the spot I needed him to for a literal half hour at one point even though I solved the puzzle and knew where to go next, sometimes that shit just happens, so I'm willing to tenaciously forgive it a little. It sill gets maddening sometimes like one memorable time were I am telling Trico to go forward for like 15 seconds, only for him to finally go the opposite direction. I don't accept the "it behaves like a real animal" explanation either, since at that point Trico should be listening to me. Yet, I don't think about that, but instead about how great Trico acts most other times.
It's awe inspiring how much like a real animal Trico acts. There is scarcely a moment where the illusion breaks, and THAT'S what makes it amazing. It reminds me of how Ellie in the Last of Us has a reply for almost any situation, and caused one reviewer to jump after she had a unique response to his meandering around for 15 seconds focusing on one particular object. That kind of consistency creates a kind of immersion that is extremely rare. It's typically easy to break the illusion of reality with companion AI, and Trico doesn't, and that's pretty amazing.
So, don't get me wrong, there are legitimately great things and moments in the game, and it's a unique and excellent experience, pretty much all of them revolving around Trico. Still, ignoring Trico's magnificence, there are extreme and numerous shortcomings that should be standing out to me.
- Framerate. As a PS3 game, this is something that should be easier to run, not harder. Often, the framerate drops just by being outside. It's not like anything is happening with Trico, just as soon as you go to a large area, the fps take a hit. I feel like the best way to play Ueda games is a generation after they release, with a remaster.
- The Camera. Dear lord, the camera. It's literally one of the worst I've EVER used. Why would someone ever program a feature that blacks out and resets it like hit does. Why?! God almighty.
- Why do those help boxes appear to tell me to do things I've been doing all game even to the end, and why is there no option to turn them off? And why are they so goddamn huge? In a game about a minimalism as this is, this is extremely intrusive.
- None of the puzzles are difficult or clever enough to make me feel smart for solving them. I feel I knew the solution to literally every contraption as soon as I walked into the room. Only the
(which i feel makes no sense why it would work that way, which is probably why it took me so long to notice that.) and a scant few other places. I'm not a super good puzzle solver or anything, it was just mostly really obvious.Master of the Valley stumped me before I realized that his orb expands much slower if you don't burn it all the way away
- Even though I am willing to be forgiving, all the same, Trico can be a dumb shit. For me, it's mostly in the back half of the game. So many times I am telling him clearly go somewhere and he just stares at me blankly for a while before finally doing it. I feel this is backwards. It's in the beginning that he should be slow as shit because he's not used to all this, while toward the end, he is more familiar with the problems since we've been solving them all game.
Maybe their mostly on the technical side, but these are serious issues that impacted the enjoyment of my game! They should stick in my mind as much as anything, but they just fall away to all the good stuff that the game has to offer. Give it a week, I'll forget these were problems in the first place.
This is frustrating for me because I am very much not the kind of critic that believes "games are only as good as you remember them, so if you forgot it, it must not be important." That's a bad way of thinking about things because it ignores that people are ultimately shitty at remembering things in general. The best way to review a game is to talk about it comprehensively. But Ueda just has a frustrating way of worming himself into the best light possible. I feel like I'm fighting to maintain as objective a view of his work as possible since the flaws (substantial ones) just fall away in front of everything else.
Ultimately, that's the best way to describe the experience this (and Ico and SotC). Experiences that stick with your in a good way, for all the shit they put you through.
Thanks for the write-up, Veelk. I agree with you on almost any point. Ueda games get way better in retrospect. I remember finding ICO very interesting, but not all that impressive as a game. Only after finishing it and thinking about it more I found myself really liking it a lot. After replaying it later it became one of my favourite games ever.
I hope TLG is similar in that regard
I hope TLG is similar in that regard
It's not a PS3 game. If it had come out on PS3 and this was an HD remaster or something that would be a good point, but this was moved to PS4 during development because the PS3 was not powerful enough.
ZeBraTurtle
Neo Member
I finished the game 2 days after The Last Guardian was released but my account never got activated till today so I thought I finally talk about why I absolutely adore this game.
Instead of writing a book im just gonna point out a few things that I absolutely adored from the game because Im still getting the formatting down for Neogaf.
1.Trico: This animal something that feels nothing short of being alive. It is crazy how many animations this creature has for every part of the game. Even though many people call this Stupid AI I call it the best AI gaming will ever see.
2.The Story: If you have a good story in games I will most likely gush over that particular game and The Last Guardian falls into this category. The story is put together in a way that I thought never would be told and the way they presented the ending was just perfect.
3.Art Direction: The art in this game is like everything else and is simply amazing in terms of colors and other directions that Fueda presented his game. It's far from the best looking game every but one thing for sure is The Last Guardian is one long Art piece that we were graced to play through.
I absolutely adored this game and was my Game Of The Year last year for the simple fact that Trico felt so alive. I recommend this game to anybody who is interested in good story and great art directions.
Off topic but if anybody could link me to formatting help for Neogaf that would be lovely
Instead of writing a book im just gonna point out a few things that I absolutely adored from the game because Im still getting the formatting down for Neogaf.
1.Trico: This animal something that feels nothing short of being alive. It is crazy how many animations this creature has for every part of the game. Even though many people call this Stupid AI I call it the best AI gaming will ever see.
2.The Story: If you have a good story in games I will most likely gush over that particular game and The Last Guardian falls into this category. The story is put together in a way that I thought never would be told and the way they presented the ending was just perfect.
3.Art Direction: The art in this game is like everything else and is simply amazing in terms of colors and other directions that Fueda presented his game. It's far from the best looking game every but one thing for sure is The Last Guardian is one long Art piece that we were graced to play through.
I absolutely adored this game and was my Game Of The Year last year for the simple fact that Trico felt so alive. I recommend this game to anybody who is interested in good story and great art directions.
Off topic but if anybody could link me to formatting help for Neogaf that would be lovely