Cthulhu_Steev
Member
It was just him shouting to get Trico's attention at first, i never saw them as commands. I did think the 'running on the spot' animation was a hilarious glitch though.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The Last Guardian |OT| In my memories, the monster always has kind eyes
- Thread starter Agram
- Start date
It was just him shouting to get Trico's attention at first, i never saw them as commands. I did think the 'running on the spot' animation was a hilarious glitch though.
Consensus that most of the content is great, but stuff like camera, stubborn/confused AI and poor FPS(OG PS4) can sour the entire experience for some to the point it can be more frustrating than fun.
I played it on PS4 pro and AI was near flawless for me and ended up with great experience better than ICO personally.
To get that speed running trophy and that doesn't seem like the only really hard and super rare trophy. One of them was sitting at 0 percent.
I glanced at the trophy list and this game seems like a pretty hard or time-consuming platinum. Might be wrong, but it looks like it. Could be worse if there's no chapter select once you beat the game.Definitely ignoring anything concerning trophies on this first run though.
Wow some posters in this thread really want to silence valid criticism.
I know a guy in this thread saying very similar things to me who can carry people in Flawless Trials of Osiris in Destiny (one of the hardest things to currently do in gaming) pretty much whenever he wants but he must suck at gaming if he complains about Tricios AI according to some posters in this thread lol.
I platinumed several of the hardest games on PS and other consoles that don't have platinum trophy lol.
You basically state anyone who likes it is wrong and just praising the game because of its creator and his prior titles. You aren't making a valid criticism, you're just making some broadly over reaching statement with no proof because you didn't like the game but a lot of other people. You seem to forget but I tried to help you several times with entirely neutral post. I even acknowledged you might just not like the game and that was fine. So once more, cut the shit will you. If you hate it so much just move on, not every game is for everyone and this is a game with a very specific design philosophy that it makes no compromises on. There are also legit issues like the frame rate and the bugs so don't play it like the people who loved the game aren't acknowledging the issues either.
doing a second playthrough, and there's no way to hop around the story. (there aren't any labels like 'chapter' in the game anywhere, unless I've missed something)
DJ Lushious
Member
Fuck. This. Game.
I have continuously been frustrated with this game and it's all because of the controls. If it isn't the shitty camera, it's Trico being a pain to direct or it's the shit controls.
I have literally spent the past 15 minutes trying to dehead ONE armor. The vast amount of times the boy will CLIP through the shoulder of the armor, rather than jumping on its back. And IF I manage to get on their back and topple them over, the fucking stun-lock of the rag doll physics working them out prevents me from having any time to grip the head.
I don't get frustrated with games for this long of a time. And I don't hurl controllers. But this fucking game makes me want to twist my controller until it shatters into tiny pieces.
I don't even want to play it any more. The moments of greatness are few and far between and constantly marred by the shit of actually trying to play the game.
I have continuously been frustrated with this game and it's all because of the controls. If it isn't the shitty camera, it's Trico being a pain to direct or it's the shit controls.
I have literally spent the past 15 minutes trying to dehead ONE armor. The vast amount of times the boy will CLIP through the shoulder of the armor, rather than jumping on its back. And IF I manage to get on their back and topple them over, the fucking stun-lock of the rag doll physics working them out prevents me from having any time to grip the head.
I don't get frustrated with games for this long of a time. And I don't hurl controllers. But this fucking game makes me want to twist my controller until it shatters into tiny pieces.
I don't even want to play it any more. The moments of greatness are few and far between and constantly marred by the shit of actually trying to play the game.
Cave Johnson
Member
Is this the part where you have you have to get down the cage? Then, I would understand, this particular aspect by far to me was the most curious design choice.
DJ Lushious
Member
Nope.
This is after he floating eye stained glass that you have to climb up everything to destroy. There's a stairwell and when you get to the top, two armor are attacking Trico.
No matter what I do the boy ALWAYS jumps past the armor! I can be lined up perfect and he clips through the shoulder or misses completely.
Neither of those actions are very vital. You can easily beat the game without using them once and the statue riding seems mostly r a trophy. As to the head pulling itself Trico needs to knock them down first so they are laid out flat then position yourself near the head and just hold O. The boy will run and grab the head without you directing further except to pull it off like a spear in Trico.
My first time I did it, it was a complete accident. I didn't even know it was a tactic. Just latched onto the guard, pulled, and the head popped off after a few seconds.
Kinda scratching my head here how people are spending insane amounts of time figuring out how to play this game and failing. Are lots of copies of this game horrifically bugged or something?
I keep asking myself the same thing.
DaddyDonuts
Neo Member
Here I thought you could only pull their heads off after they were already knocked down. Huh! I ran from them 99% of the time
DJ Lushious
Member
Yes, I do know I I have to knock them down first. The only reliable way I have been able to do that is to TRY jumping on their backs and knocking them off balance. Then we both fall and the boy is fucked by rag doll physics and a long get-up animation.
Also, I want the trophy. :-|
No, the controls are shit. The camera is shit. Why does the boy have to stumble/fall after jumping a foot?! Why does rag doll physics have to kick in for everything?! Why if I get up near a wall, the boy immediately drives himself into the wall, causing further delay as the rag doll physics have to engage?!
I don't remember Ico being anything like this. Sadly, I still haven't played Shadow of the Colossus, though I own it on PS2 and PS3. I hear bad things about the HD version and the PS2 version is a bit of a pain to get up set up for me.
Also, sorry for all the cursing. I am just very very frustrated right now.
Nope I didn't say that. I said that the reviews would be a lot lower in my opinion if it wasn't for the history of ICO and SotC and I stand by that.
I also backed up everything I said with a lot more arguments than anyone who subsequently disagreed with me.
And I also thanked people who offered help for me yesterday.
A game thread is not supposed to be just blind praise by the mega fans. It is also valuable to post justified criticism and I think I did that....
No you misunderstand me. I think Trico needs to do it for you. It always seemed to work when he knocked the suits down as they would often lie totally still for several seconds. In some of the bigger battles I pulled off like 3 or 4 helmets as Trico batted enemies about. Also the camera can play a role as the direction you need to move the stick to yank the head off after grabbing can be affected by this camera angle. The same goes for jumping off of chains.
Its all physics based and animation takes priority. The best way to deal with the controls is like you are actually controlling a little boy and not a grown man action hero. Running through rubble will take longer than just running around it as the boys body needs to react to the rugged geometry. It's a game of soft slow light touches and this goes for the camera as well.
DaddyDonuts
Neo Member
Yeah, I couldn't pull off any heads unless Trico knocked them down for me.
I think a lot of people are spamming commands or not pointing the camera at the right thing and waiting for Trico. Like there's just no way the game worked so well for some of us and not at all for others unless they're not doing it right imo.
Which is fair fwiw, this is the most "not for everyone" game I may have ever played. I love it tho.
Also in response to some of the comments above I definitely don't think the controls are shit, I actually liked them a lot. It's only the camera that I really thought was atrocious - biggest flaw of the game by far.
I'm glad I played ICO and SotC like two years ago so that I could be brainwashed into liking this. 😘
Who said it was? I even acknowledged differing opinions and the games obvious flaws in the very post of mine you quoted above. You can have a different opinion but not revert to baseless hyperbole about the industry and other people's opinions. Your claim about the reviews is BS as even the reviewers who gushed about the game brought up many of the very same criticisms as you but they weren't nearly as bothered, if at all.
Yeah, sometimes the camera just gets stuck. It's especially bad when you're on Trico and he's walking through tight spaces.
L1 often helps with this issue as it can reset the camera when stuck.
lukeskymac
Member
Still waiting to hear your response to my images, by the way.
Primethius
Banned
The boys animations were amazing. Wouldn't change those for the world. The game doesn't require precise controls anyways as there's nothing much in it that requires much dexterity or precision.
Well I think a game that DF says runs at 20 fps on the main console that the vast majority of people who might buy the game own (a base PS4) shouldn't be getting 8/10 scores. I don't see any hyperbole there for example. I have a Pro so I can't judge that for myself.
Your images don't load.
People can be so bad at this game, like wow. I never had to reset a checkpoint or deal with any of this frustration.
I also never killed a soldier by hand myself. Trico killed them all for me automatically.
The game has realistic physical reactions that are pretty easy to learn. You're a small child. You're not an action hero.
The HD collection is great.
This may surprise you but something can have flaws and still be a masterpiece. Many of the most fervent reviews mention the issues people are having and stated the final game was so good the negatives didn't hurt the overall experience for them.
This is nothing new either. The Witcher 3 was a mess on consoles at launch and was for months afterwards and look at the scores people gave that game both normal everyday gamers and the professionals.
lukeskymac
Member
Oh, shoot. Thanks, OneDrive.
First two are the Metacritic scores for Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword. Third is Ocarina's - 99 at 20FPS, yum.
So you keep bringing up how the game is suposedly running at 20fps for the most part, even though that's not correct and not even what the DF video states.
Yet you're playing it on a pro at a rock solid 30fps without any dips?
Makes sense. It doesn't show any intent to push a negative agenda at all, either.
Primethius
Banned
Ludonarrative harmony. This game.
That's what I kept thinking of as I played it.
That's what I kept thinking of as I played it.
SolidusDave
Member
It had been fine for me until
I fell into that water room. I had to move the crate to a certain position before Trico would start destroying the floor to let its tail down. No command (e.g. the destroying or jumping on the ground command) would trigger it. It was very unintuitive as each command was pulling the camera onto Trico, suggesting it was just waiting for the right input. The position of the crate HAD to be the spot where he would let the tail down afterwards (and thus can't even see you there)...
Directly afterwards is the next feeding scenario. However, after feeding and moving around a bit it would stop listen to any commands and just sit down on all fours in a very stressed way. Facing the door that you would later try to open while being chased. I saw where it should stand up so that I could reach a window but the AI basically crashed.
Directly afterwards is the next feeding scenario. However, after feeding and moving around a bit it would stop listen to any commands and just sit down on all fours in a very stressed way. Facing the door that you would later try to open while being chased. I saw where it should stand up so that I could reach a window but the AI basically crashed.
DJ Lushious
Member
Yeah, sure, victim blame. Get outta here with that shit.
/RollEyes
Duh! It's ridiculous game design components that mar the experience. As in, EVERY ledge the boy jumps onto, he cannot grab it with anything other than one hand. Then he rag doll swings before placing his second hand on the ledge to carry himself up. Every ledge, no matter the height!
This game is rough around the edges and there's no disputing that. As for the kid comment, when i was 12 I sure as hell didn't stumble to my hands and knees whenever I jumped over a puddle. That is what is happening here.
I can count on my hands the number of times Trico tried to eat a barrel and MISSED! Not a rolling barrel, not a barrel in the air (though its missed that plenty of times), but a stationary upright barrel standing 10ft in front of it.
Here's another one for ya. I just jumped from a great height, as expected from the game. As I was descending, I was no more than five feet away from Trico. The games goes into slow motion/makes that whooshing sound, indicating Trico is going to catch me.
And it missed completely and I nearly died.
Oh, and isn't it great when the camera gets confused by the geometry it's trying to go through and screen goes black?!
It's damned near 2017 and I feel like I'm playing a shitty game on the Dreamcast, in regards to controls.
OmnipotentO
Member
Just finished this. OMFG it's amazing!!
Played on reg PS4. Few technical issues with frame rate, camera, controls etc. but content wise it's great. overall an incredible experience.
I almost cried like a little bitch when he was trying to revive the boy and then again in the end at the village. Motherfucking feels.
Played on reg PS4. Few technical issues with frame rate, camera, controls etc. but content wise it's great. overall an incredible experience.
I cannot fathom how bad people are playing this game. It's like they got totally bugged copies I didn't. Or they have disastrous issues with controlling an analog stick.
People reporting unpreventably dying a lot or being unable to get Trico to do something they want for 15 minutes signals profound incompetence or misunderstanding of controls.
How many ruins did you run around and traverse barefoot?
Have you ever seen an animal in real life? They don't always reach what they try to bite. Trico realistically repositions himself to get the barrels he misses. Besides who cares? Just leave the barrel and he will grab it. R1+circle will get him to target and eat any barrels nearby. Eating barrels is like 1% of the action in-game.
The slow motion is there to indicate to you you made a dangerous jump, and that's your cue to try move in mid air to grab the creature. It's not always to indicate he will grab you.
The camera is indeed fucked but it only really gets in he way in cramped spaces and it's usually easily remedied by not trying to cram yourself in a tight space, i.e. jump off Trico and walk instead of riding his neck through a cramped space.
I feel some perverse completionist need to finish the game.
Now I am at the part right after I j
and Trico is on the ground laying there and I pulled out all of his spears and I went to get the two barrels up high. I have thrown the barrels pinpointed right to his face and nose at every spot numerous times and Trico wont eat them I've been here for 15 minutes. The guide says the next thing to do is to make Trico eat these barrels but he keeps meekly attempting to eat them and instead pushing them away from him even though they are as close as they could possibly be to his mouth. I am 100% sure there are no spears left in him.
ust fought evil Trico
And yet there are people speed running it under 5 hours. Listen no one isn't saying you're having issues but some of those are what I would not even what I would consider worthy of criticism. For example the slow mo as you fall past Trico happens no matter what in many cases, even if you're coming nowhere close to Trico. This isn't auto platforming like the Uncharted games where your character will often be attracted to or drawn towards grabbable point that you should have missed. If you aren't going to land a jump, you aren't going to land a jump and that includes Trico assisted saves. This isn't really flaw, you just missed Trico and this is no comment on your skills or the controls, its just a missed jump/fall. It happens.
I'd even make the same claim for the eating of barrels. The only real issue I've encountered is Trico doesn't like to eat them in confined spaces and will just paw at them a lot. Hell seeing how my dog eats IRL seeing Trico miss a barrel isn't all that surprising to me even when its right in front of it.
Trico won't eat them until you hand them directly to it in my experience from this part.
Its just been seriously wounded so consider it like spoon feeding a wounded animal that can't feed itself
Actually, it only indicates that you've made a dangerous jump and might or might not be saved by Trico. It doesn't mean your safety is guaranteed. If it did mean you would always be saved, there would be no reason for it to go into slow motion and create tension. Trico would just save you every time.
But it sounds like this game is just hell for you for some reason. I hope you bought it physically so you can take it back. There's no reason for you to play this game and suffer like this.
SiteSeer
Member
i had the same problem, then fixed it by holding the barrels in front of his face without dropping them to the ground, he ate them out of my hands. also there are two more barrels in that area that you need to feed him.
Yeah I can't wait till the game is out there longer and people have really sunk their teeth into it and someone with more time who is more eloquent can go into why the design of every aspect of the game reinforces the gameplay ideas without drawing attention to them. Its brilliantly done and even the puzzles make sense in context and it rarely if ever feels like a gamey moment. Nothing in the gameplay draws you out of the experience the game is presenting and the story its telling. Its like the exact opposite of games like Uncharted.
Honest question. Why roll your eyes at that?
As I posted before, I never even attacked an armour either besides shoving into the ones to push the shields out of their hands so Trico wouldn't be scared of them.
Not a single time from start to end. It didn't even come to mind.
I either ran away from them or climbed on top of Trico so he could protect me as I tended to his spear wounds.
I'm only a few hours in but I'm really enjoying the game.
I just wanted to chime in with the discussion about controls, camera, and Trico's AI. IMO I think everything was intentionally designed this way. While I don't think the controls are perfect if looked at in a general gaming-sense, I do think they are perfect for this game. I mean I'm playing a boy that's trying to escape a castle with a giant beast that thinks its a cat/dog. The way the kid just stumbles and fumbles around while moving makes him seem authentic and more believable in my mind.
So far I think Trico's AI has been amazing or at least very animal-like. There have only been maybe a handful of times he hasn't responded to commands properly and that is more than likely partly my fault. Again in my mind the way he acts and responds just fits perfectly in with the way the world around them is designed.
The camera I can see being an issue for some, but it hasn't been so overwhelmingly horrible that its ruined any part of the game for me so far.
I think the overall game as a whole is much better than the sum of its parts. I just don't understand the overall disgust people are having while playing. I mean if you don't like the game fine, there is nothing wrong with that. Before giving up on it completely I'd recommend just sitting back and relaxing a little bit while playing. Seems like you all are getting frustrated over things that don't really matter much.
I just wanted to chime in with the discussion about controls, camera, and Trico's AI. IMO I think everything was intentionally designed this way. While I don't think the controls are perfect if looked at in a general gaming-sense, I do think they are perfect for this game. I mean I'm playing a boy that's trying to escape a castle with a giant beast that thinks its a cat/dog. The way the kid just stumbles and fumbles around while moving makes him seem authentic and more believable in my mind.
So far I think Trico's AI has been amazing or at least very animal-like. There have only been maybe a handful of times he hasn't responded to commands properly and that is more than likely partly my fault. Again in my mind the way he acts and responds just fits perfectly in with the way the world around them is designed.
The camera I can see being an issue for some, but it hasn't been so overwhelmingly horrible that its ruined any part of the game for me so far.
I think the overall game as a whole is much better than the sum of its parts. I just don't understand the overall disgust people are having while playing. I mean if you don't like the game fine, there is nothing wrong with that. Before giving up on it completely I'd recommend just sitting back and relaxing a little bit while playing. Seems like you all are getting frustrated over things that don't really matter much.
pixellated_man
Member
Woah, that's some high praise indeed.
So happy most people are in the 'very happy' camp with this game. I thought it would be more divisive. Even the Metacritic user score of 76 is much higher than I would have expected a game like this to get.
I'm still going to wait until I get the pro to play this game. Although I am pretty confident I will be able to look past the technical issues, I still want the best possible experience.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
Ok, I'm stuck in some water with a box. I think I know what's supposed to happen as there's even dialog talking of my escape but it ain't happening. Any tips?
I'm standing on a box floating in the water and I'm waiting for Trico to toss down his tail...?
I'm actually not sure what happened in this one.
I actually thought you had to break the supporting pillars by building up speed with the box and ramming into them. After several minutes of failing to do this I noticed the tail hanging down. Might just take a little bit. Give a call out to Trico either using the R1 + O or just hitting R1 by itself to get Trico's attention.
I think an important note is that this game is not a sandbox. Each area is carefully designed to be completed a particular way, with some occasional different routes. If you see a jump that looks like you maybe coooould make but it doesn't go anywhere, you might die. If Trico isn't doing the thing you think hebshould, he might have something else he has to do. His route is obviously scripted, it's all about giving the right commands at the right time. You can also rely on him to just do things sometimes.
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I did get stuck once because I didn't figure out that R1+Triangle tells him to jump. I think the game did a bad job explaining this. But generally, Trico's behaviour and the boy's abilities are fine. I think it's fine to critique the game for sometimes having things in the environment that look reachable but aren't, but I think as long as you understand this fact and seek out the "right" route you'll find the gameplay experience is pretty smooth and solidly crafted.
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I did get stuck once because I didn't figure out that R1+Triangle tells him to jump. I think the game did a bad job explaining this. But generally, Trico's behaviour and the boy's abilities are fine. I think it's fine to critique the game for sometimes having things in the environment that look reachable but aren't, but I think as long as you understand this fact and seek out the "right" route you'll find the gameplay experience is pretty smooth and solidly crafted.