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Gimme any decent bowler over any of those batsmen anyday.

McGrath, warne, akram, Ambrose, Walsh, younis, steyn, Donald.

If you had to pick one of the above or any of those three batsmen, you would go the bowler every time.

Conditions have been so suited to batsmen in the last 20 years resulting in all the batting records becoming massively over inflated. It's not hard to find a batsman averaging 50 these last 20 years.

It's bloody hard to find a bowler averaging low 20s with a 50 to 60 ball strike rate.

I actually agree with you that it is much harder to find a good bowler than a good batsmen but lets not pretend that Tendulkar is the same as any batsmen who averages over 50. Tendulkar averages like 56.5 with over 14,000 runs and he has done this facing every single bowler you have listed there.

In the end though your comparison is silly because you could apply it to any batsmen that has basically ever played the game. So i'm not sure why you are specifically talking about these Indian batsmen only.

Also just to go further with your point i think getting a good spinner is even harder. I would take Warne first out of the players you listed in a heartbeat. It's damn near impossible to find a good spinner let alone one of that sort of quality.

I grew up watching Warne and Murali (and to a lesser extent Kumble, Macgill etc.) and i got spoiled into thinking that having spinners like that around was the norm. Now look at the quality of spinners going around.

Edit: I also find it a little ironic that you talk about how few bowlers there have been in the last 20 years. I would argue that a fairly big chunk of the best bowlers of all time have been around in the last 20 years. The last 5-10 years have been a little slack but there have still been some really good bowlers.
 
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The fucking legend. muaaaaaaaaa.
 

Window

Member
Gimme any decent bowler over any of those batsmen anyday.

McGrath, warne, akram, Ambrose, Walsh, younis, steyn, Donald.

If you had to pick one of the above or any of those three batsmen, you would go the bowler every time.

Conditions have been so suited to batsmen in the last 20 years resulting in all the batting records becoming massively over inflated. It's not hard to find a batsman averaging 50 these last 20 years.

It's bloody hard to find a bowler averaging low 20s with a 50 to 60 ball strike rate.

What the fuck? since when did the last 6-7 years translate to the last 20 years? In the 90's only 3 batsmen averaged over 50 (Lara, Tendulkar, Waugh). Dravid is the the highest avergaging visiting batsmen in England not named Steve Waugh (and pretty much everyone acknowledges that English pitches have not changed as dramatically as they have every where else). In fact if you look at batting averages from when covered picthes became the norm (1960's onwards I think), the 90's have the lowest batting average http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;groupby=decade;orderby=start;spanmin1=01+Jan+1960;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team. If your claim is that batting has been the easiest its ever been since the 90's onwards then numbers certainly don't support it. I agree with whats happened in the 00's though.

Edit:pretty much what AdventureRacing said
 

Rezbit

Member
I feel bad for Sri Lanka :( Giving up nearly 600 runs that easily. Hopefully the Aussies will echo that however.

Fair point about spinners, AdventureRacing. R Ashwin doesn't look THAT great, nor Herath for Sri Lanka. Lyon seems to just be the guy who has done the best out of a shit bunch of Aussie spinners (although he has started well, I will give credit for that). Swann is pretty old but aggressive and servicable. Tahir is an okay leggy, but is 32 years old. This might be controversial, but I'll say that Vettori is the best spinner in world cricket.
 

War Peaceman

You're a big guy.
I feel bad for Sri Lanka :( Giving up nearly 600 runs that easily. Hopefully the Aussies will echo that however.

Fair point about spinners, AdventureRacing. R Ashwin doesn't look THAT great, nor Herath for Sri Lanka. Lyon seems to just be the guy who has done the best out of a shit bunch of Aussie spinners (although he has started well, I will give credit for that). Swann is pretty old but aggressive and servicable. Tahir is an okay leggy, but is 32 years old. This might be controversial, but I'll say that Vettori is the best spinner in world cricket.

No, Swann is. Vettori's close but on the last three or so years of form, it can only be Swann.
 

Rezbit

Member
No, Swann is. Vettori's close but on the last three or so years of form, it can only be Swann.

Would Swann really be as effective without his swinging fast bowlers though? Vettori has had utter poo for teammates and does a remarkable job. Still looks threatening any time he comes on to bowl.
 
I actually agree with you that it is much harder to find a good bowler than a good batsmen but lets not pretend that Tendulkar is the same as any batsmen who averages over 50. Tendulkar averages like 56.5 with over 14,000 runs and he has done this facing every single bowler you have listed there.

In the end though your comparison is silly because you could apply it to any batsmen that has basically ever played the game. So i'm not sure why you are specifically talking about these Indian batsmen only.

Also just to go further with your point i think getting a good spinner is even harder. I would take Warne first out of the players you listed in a heartbeat. It's damn near impossible to find a good spinner let alone one of that sort of quality.

I grew up watching Warne and Murali (and to a lesser extent Kumble, Macgill etc.) and i got spoiled into thinking that having spinners like that around was the norm. Now look at the quality of spinners going around.

Edit: I also find it a little ironic that you talk about how few bowlers there have been in the last 20 years. I would argue that a fairly big chunk of the best bowlers of all time have been around in the last 20 years. The last 5-10 years have been a little slack but there have still been some really good bowlers.

yes, I think Tendulkar is just another batsman who averages 50+. He has also played so many more tests than the real greats that is total runs doesnt justify an automatic selection amongst the real greats.

Yeah he has faced those bowlers but mostly at home, where the conditions have suited him more.

I have seen two Tendulkar centuries live, neither stirred any great emotion in me that I was watching one of the greatest ever.

I have also watched Lara hit 100 live, damn it was unbelievable. He had natural talent.

The top 5 cricketers of last century judged by Wisden were:
1. Sir Donald Bradman
2. Sir Garfield Sobers
3. Sir Jack Hobbs
4. Shane Warne
5. Sir Viv Richards

And none of Tendulkar, Dravid, Ponting, Kallis or Lara (the top runs scorers of all time) deserve to be included in the above list.
 
yes, I think Tendulkar is just another batsman who averages 50+. He has also played so many more tests than the real greats that is total runs doesnt justify an automatic selection amongst the real greats.

This is fucking dumb. Yes he has played more tests but he has also managed to keep a near 56 average during all that time. He has played across multiple generations of bowlers and has managed to remain consistently good. He had to face some of the greatest bowlers of all time as well (just look at some of the names he faced in the 90s). He has also had to deal with the immense pressure that comes from being the face of Indian cricket whilst also having to try.

Just saying "hurr durr he played more tests therefore he got more runs" is dumb.

Yeah he has faced those bowlers but mostly at home, where the conditions have suited him more.

Ok before you start spouting bullshit at least get your facts straight, lets go to cricinfo and have a little look at his averages.

His average in Australia is higher than his average in India despite having to play a lot against Warne and Mcgrath.

His home record is a 56 average in 82 games, his away record is 55.61 in 104 matches. Yep he totally just relied on his performances at home to boost his record.

In short get your head out of your arse.

I have seen two Tendulkar centuries live, neither stirred any great emotion in me that I was watching one of the greatest ever.

I have also watched Lara hit 100 live, damn it was unbelievable. He had natural talent.

Well i've seen them both live and thought they both looked great. Of course i will take the words of people who know far more than you when it comes to this (especially when you are demonstrating such a lack of knowledge and come off as incredibly biased).

The top 5 cricketers of last century judged by Wisden were:
1. Sir Donald Bradman
2. Sir Garfield Sobers
3. Sir Jack Hobbs
4. Shane Warne
5. Sir Viv Richards

And none of Tendulkar, Dravid, Ponting, Kallis or Lara (the top runs scorers of all time) deserve to be included in the above list.

So if you can't crack the top 5 players of all time (which is debatable anyway) that means you are just some random batsmen who averages over 50?

Also i find it hilarious that you refer to that list after going on a rampage about how much harder it is to find a good bowler. That list has 3 batsmen, 1 bowler and 1 all rounder. If you truly believe what you said above i don't see how you can refer to this list as though it is gospel.

Also just so you know 11 years of Tendulkar, Dravid, Ponting and Kallis's careers came this century so you're right they probably don't belong on that list.
 

Grug

Member
Clarke has already scored his highest individual score, and has also notched up the highest score by an Australian at the SCG

Other milestones he could potentially reach today if (bolded to prevent irfan from misinterpreting this post as "cockiness") he keeps scoring.

Highest score by an Australian against India (Ricky Ponting 257)
Highest score by a batsman at the SCG (R.E. Foster 287)
Highest score by a batsman against India (Sanath Jayasuriya 340)
Highest test score by an Australian (Matthew Hayden 380)
Highest test score by a batsman (Brian Lara 400*)
 

Grug

Member
Tendulkar is a freak btw. He will now forever be in the mix of that group of absolute legends that sit below only Bradman (and no shame in that). His career peak spreadeagling two different centuries undoubtedly disadvantaged him in that Wisden list.

I have seen two Tendulkar centuries live, neither stirred any great emotion in me that I was watching one of the greatest ever.

Oh well that settles it then! :p

Seriously though, many, many others have had the opposite experience to you.
 
Incredible display from Clarke and just such an average performance from India. It's going to look embarrasing if they come out and get bowled out cheaply again.

Also what score did Clarke get against India on his debut? Didn't he get a double century in that series as well?
 

Myzer

Member
Incredible display from Clarke and just such an average performance from India. It's going to look embarrasing if they come out and get bowled out cheaply again.

Also what score did Clarke get against India on his debut? Didn't he get a double century in that series as well?

He scored 151 on debut against India.
 

Grug

Member
Is it wrong that I want Haddin to fail if he bats today?

We don't need the runs and I don't want him to have a false dawn.
 

Grug

Member
Well deserved @ the SCG crowd that had it coming ..

Class. Hope he is enjoying his third consecutive grinding day in the field... at half pay. He sure showed them as they sat back with ice cold beer watching two Australian batsmen pile on the runs.
 

artist

Banned
Class. Hope he is enjoying his third consecutive grinding day in the field... at half pay.
Still making more than half of the entire Australian team combined. Will probably have a longer career than 95% Aussie cricketers in this team as well. Enjoying indeed.

SCG crowd was classy though, got to hand it to them. Pietersen +1 as well.
 

Grug

Member
Still making more than half of the entire Australian team combined.

Agreed, horribly overpaid.

What is his per run earnings on this tour thus far when you divide his salary by his accumulated run total of 34 runs over three innings?
 

artist

Banned
Agreed, horribly overpaid.

What is his per run earnings on this tour thus far when you divide his salary by his accumulated run total of 34 runs over three innings?
Umm, why would you want to even calculate that? It will still be exorbitantly high .. :/

You want to make Puppy look like an underpaid chinese factory worker infront of him?

Mussey gets his 100.
 

Grug

Member
Umm, why would you want to even calculate that? It will still be exorbitantly high .. :/

You want to make Puppy look like an underpaid chinese factory worker infront of him?

Couldn't care less.

You are the one finding some weird form of validation in cheering for the salary of your players. I don't get it... at all...

Musseyyyyyyyy! <3
 

Grug

Member
Why bring it up then Sheila?

haha, you'll find that you are the one who tried to start some baffling "our players earn more than yours" pissing contest. Not me. Like I said, I don't get it at all. It's genuinely confusing me. Do you feel somehow validated that some Indian bloke that doesn't know your name makes more money than some Australian bloke that doesn't know mine?

Personally I think that most professional sportsmen are grossly overpaid, but that's what the free market values them at... who am I to complain?

Still get a massive laugh out of you butchering the use of the term "sheila" by the way and your false understanding that it comes across as some sort of derogatory put down. In reality it just makes you look like a tourist fumbling badly with a cheap phrasebook. I know that you're committed to it now and that to stop using it now would be some admission of defeat, so I look forward to the next time. :D

Also comes across as you trying to beef up a flailing argument with some emotional deflections. Just saying. :)

Nope, I'm responding to your "enjoy @ half pay" bit when he's still making a LOT.

And I was merely stating that in the context of the game, I don't think he got much value from that gesture. A subtle raised middle finger to the crowd after taking a key wicket or epic catch can have some nice arsey effect. But when deployed on foreign soil to a crowd that is enjoying watching your team get systematically dismantled, it merely adds icing to the delicious cake they are already eating. If he is as overpaid as you say he is, I don't think he got value for money there.

How that became a one-man pissing contest about which team earns more is beyond my comprehension.
 
I try to just watch with it muted as much as i can. I just do something else during the match to keep me busy. It's a shame because good commentary can really enhance the experience.
 

Dead Man

Member
Salazar would be gutted.
Can someone get Slater off TV? :)
I try to just watch with it muted as much as i can. I just do something else during the match to keep me busy. It's a shame because good commentary can really enhance the experience.

I think Tubs will be the last decent commentator we see join the team for a while, at least on 9. The rest of the newer ones always seem to talk about their mates, or just mug for the camera. Lee might be okay eventually, he seems to have some interesting things to say.
 

artist

Banned
haha, you'll find that you are the one who tried to start some baffling "our players earn more than yours" pissing contest. Not me. Like I said, I don't get it at all. It's genuinely confusing me. Do you feel somehow validated that some Indian bloke that doesn't know your name makes more money than some Australian bloke that doesn't know mine?

Personally I think that most professional sportsmen are grossly overpaid, but that's what the free market values them at... who am I to complain?
You started the pay debate. I was merely pointing out that even at that half pay, he's still much better off. Must have stung quite a bit to get this sort of lengthy response ..
Still get a massive laugh out of you butchering the use of the term "sheila" by the way and your false understanding that it comes across as some sort of derogatory put down. In reality it just makes you look like a tourist fumbling badly with a cheap phrasebook. I know that you're committed to it now and that to stop using it now would be some admission of defeat, so I look forward to the next time. :D

Also comes across as you trying to beef up a flailing argument with some emotional deflections. Just saying. :)
Then why does it bother you? And thank god I'm not a tourist.
And I was merely stating that in the context of the game, I don't think he got much value from that gesture. A subtle raised middle finger to the crowd after taking a key wicket or epic catch can have some nice arsey effect. But when deployed on foreign soil to a crowd that is enjoying watching your team get systematically dismantled, it merely adds icing to the delicious cake they are already eating. If he is as overpaid as you say he is, I don't think he got value for money there.

How that became a one-man pissing contest about which team earns more is beyond my comprehension.
Umm, how would it be of any value of gesturing on a catch or fall of a wicket when the asshole that abused your mother and sister might or might have actually left and he might potentially be pissing off the "innocent"?
 

Grug

Member
You started the pay debate.

Geez you really are a halfwit. You can't even keep track of your own discussion. Just go back and read it.

Then you can explain how I started the debate about who earns more than who. If your response is in anyway based on me mentioning the word "pay" first, I am going to laugh my arse off.

That awkward moment when you are accused of starting a debate you didn't even participate in. *chuckle*

Then why does it bother you?

As I said, it's a source of amusement, not irritance. Despite how poorly you misue the term, you've invested far too muchin it to stop now, and fuck me it is hilarious. And I'm not the first to say so. :)
 

Grug

Member
Is it in sync?

Last time I tried it was a bit behind.

Need to do it with a real radio. Web stream is delayed by a few seconds.

Protip: If you don't have a traditional radio but Foxtel IQ you can use the pause feature to delay the TV coverage and bring it into sync with the internet stream.
 

Dead Man

Member
Need to do it with a real radio. Web stream is delayed by a few seconds.

Protip: If you don't have a traditional radio but Foxtel IQ you can use the pause feature to delay the TV coverage and bring it into sync with the internet stream.

Look at Mr Fancypants with his fancy TV! ;)
 
This is fucking dumb. Yes he has played more tests but he has also managed to keep a near 56 average during all that time. He has played across multiple generations of bowlers and has managed to remain consistently good. He had to face some of the greatest bowlers of all time as well (just look at some of the names he faced in the 90s). He has also had to deal with the immense pressure that comes from being the face of Indian cricket whilst also having to try.


Just saying "hurr durr he played more tests therefore he got more runs" is dumb.

Its just like saying, he has the most runs ever, therefore he is the best batsman ever. durr-durr!

Ok before you start spouting bullshit at least get your facts straight, lets go to cricinfo and have a little look at his averages.

His average in Australia is higher than his average in India despite having to play a lot against Warne and Mcgrath.

His home record is a 56 average in 82 games, his away record is 55.61 in 104 matches. Yep he totally just relied on his performances at home to boost his record.

In short get your head out of your arse.

Well i've seen them both live and thought they both looked great. Of course i will take the words of people who know far more than you when it comes to this (especially when you are demonstrating such a lack of knowledge and come off as incredibly biased).

Yeah we should get the opinion of someone who knows more about cricket than you or I. Someone like Murali, who you know, actually bowled at him:

http://www.cricketcountry.com/crick...ll-the-records-but-Lara-is-better-Murali/7069

So if you can't crack the top 5 players of all time (which is debatable anyway) that means you are just some random batsmen who averages over 50?

Also i find it hilarious that you refer to that list after going on a rampage about how much harder it is to find a good bowler. That list has 3 batsmen, 1 bowler and 1 all rounder. If you truly believe what you said above i don't see how you can refer to this list as though it is gospel.

no, its not the "Top" players of the century. These players were more than being just top players. In fact, there are not many statistics that any of these players "top", other than The Don's 99 of course.

Also just so you know 11 years of Tendulkar, Dravid, Ponting and Kallis's careers came this century so you're right they probably don't belong on that list.

That wasnt what I said or implied.

None of Tendulkar, Dravid, Ponting or Kallis have done someonthing to deserve displacing any of those top 5.

They are all very, very good players. But not great.

Nope. Greatness comes with being able to do what none of your contemporaries could possibly do.

That is why those five players are in the list.

In an indian's eyes you have had two of the best batsmen of all time for the last 20 odd years.

The reason their greatness gets bandied around so much is because India has had no one of real greatness, so Indians put those two names up there.

P.s. Clarkie just got to 300. If he betters Lara's 400, does that make Clark better than Lara?
 

speedpop

Has problems recognising girls
I see that despite the seasons irfan and Grug continue riding their carousel of shit together.

I think Tubs will be the last decent commentator we see join the team for a while, at least on 9. The rest of the newer ones always seem to talk about their mates, or just mug for the camera. Lee might be okay eventually, he seems to have some interesting things to say.

I agree. Taylor and Benaud in the same room is the main reason why I leave the Ch 9 commentary on. Absolutely despise Slater and Healy - both men have the Australian flag wrapped around them and nothing but rubbish comes out of their mouths.
 
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