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C

chicko1983

Member
crazy monkey said:
india and pakistan are not what they used to be. Match are not fun.
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Pakistan are too good at the moment, or more so, India are really bad.

In the past they were much more evenly matched and both a lot more stronger batting wise. Been pretty slow batting in both matches so far, maybe the pitch, dew or just the quality of the batsmen?
 
A

artist

Banned
crazy monkey said:
india and pakistan are not what they used to be. Match are not fun.
Click to expand...
This coming from a person who likes the most boring cricketer in world cricket. The little exchanges between the Ind-Pak players (nothing serious), just joking around and pulling each others leg is FAR more interesting than the entire SA team. :p

Having said that, good win by Pakistan. India completely outplayed. Besides being a side undergoing change, the few good players they have, all of them seem to be in a really bad patch of form. Bowling has always been traditionally weak which was made up by the strength in batting, which is I said earlier is also lacking (a lot) now.

Also need to point out about Jamshed. I said this guy could be the next Saeed Anwar for Pakistan and some of you doubted it ..
 
B

beast786

Member
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I was thinking when the two line up were shown before the match on how one sided and dominant indian batting records are.

"Pakistan added to their record of being the only side, other than Australia, to inflict home ODI series defeats on India in the previous ten years. They also continued their impressive record at Eden Gardens, and have now won all their four ODIs against India at the ground."
 
C

chicko1983

Member
LiquidSolid said:
Ryder's break was completely understandable but he could come back into the squad tomorrow if he liked. He's been playing domestic cricket for the last couple of months and is in great form but he isn't making himself available until the February tour (probably waiting for Taylor to come back).

But the Taylor debacle... Get ready for a long story. So where do I start? I mean, I could go on for hours talking about all the fuck ups NZC have managed to pull off over the last decade. Between John Bracewell basically pushing Fleming and Astle into retirement, Justin Vaughan stabbing Shane Bond in the back at the behest of the BCCI, Vettori's coup that instated him as the coach-captain, 2011's captaincy "election" and the mess between John Wright and John Buchanan (appoint a coach and then hire a guy that the new coach doesn't get along with, what a great recipe for success). The basic thing to get out of this is that NZC are fucking useless and have been killing cricket in NZ for years.

So basically what happened is in early 2012, John Wright decided he couldn't work with Buchanan any more and quit. The CEO of NZC tried to come up with a compromise but the board said no (they, of course, had to go with an Aussie over the NZer). So they went looking for a new coach and created a panel, which included Stephen Fleming, to go through the applications and appoint one. They ultimately ended up choosing former Otago coach, Mike Hesson, for the job. Why am I bringing this up? Well alongside coaching in the IPL, Fleming also manages a number of NZ players, including McCullum (and Vettori). And who does McCullum play for? Otago of course. So there's a ridiculous conflict of interest there but no-one notices until well after the fact.

Hesson moved into the coaching role once Wright moved on, went through a poor tour of India and a mediocre T20 WC performance. Along the way, Hesson came up with the "brilliant" idea to shuffle around the batting lineup against Pakistan in the WC, resulting in Vettori coming out before Taylor and it was a resounding failure. Then came the tour of Sri Lanka. After losing the T20 and ODI series and a couple of days before the test series, Hesson decided to meet with Taylor in his hotel room and ask him to step down as captain. Taylor refused and Hesson then told him that he'd recommend to the NZC board that Taylor be dropped as captain. Again, this was just a day or two before the test series. The first test went as most NZ tests go; decent first innings, collapse in the second. But in the second, Taylor stepped up and carried the team to victory.

Once the team got back to NZ, word of the meeting before the test series leaked out and shit hit the fan. Given that he'd only just given a MOTM performance to get a rare away test win and that his figures since becoming captain were fantastic (50+ test average), fans weren't impressed. A couple of days later, word then leaked that Taylor hadn't been asked to take part in the review of the tour and that NZC's new idea was for Taylor to stay as captain of the test team, with McCullum taking over the ODI and T20 teams. It reeked of a last ditch effort to avoid public scrutiny in the wake of Taylor's performance. But when they brought it to Taylor, he refused, saying that it'd be a confusing mess and that he was deciding to take a break from cricket for a couple of months to get his head back together.

So the NZC and Hesson fronted with the news that "Taylor had declined the test captaincy" (seriously, no mention that they had dropped him), that Hesson had from the very beginning intended on keeping him as test captain (LIE!), that Taylor had been part of the review (LIIIIE!) and continually pushed that "Ross has made himself unavailable for the SA tour" line to the point of absurdity. In other words, they tried to throw all of the blame on the best fucking player in the country.

It was absolutely mind boggling. No-one but a handful of gullible fools bought it and people got angrier at NZC. Taylor took a couple of interviews the next day to defend himself. He gave his version of events (that he hadn't been part of the review, that Hesson quite obviously intended on dropping him as captain in all three formats and so on), mentioned a couple of things that bewildered him about Hesson (Hesson wanted Nathan McCullum to captain the T20 side if both Taylor and Brendon McCullum were out sick... NATHAN MCCULLUM!) and confirmed what everyone though, that someone was lying.

At this point, NZC finally realised that no-one was buying their bullshit and that Taylor wasn't going to sit back and let them throw him under the bus, so they went silent for 4-5 days before holding a press conference. They apologised to Taylor, said that a special election for NZC board members would occur in 2013 and mentioned that "new information" had come forth that they would investigate it. No questions answered, no people fired, just a whole load of nothing. A couple of weeks later, they said that they were dropping the investigation of the "new information" and that the entire ordeal was settled. It all but revealed that the new information was nothing but a red herring to distract people away from their blatant and obvious lies.

So yeah, that's essentially what happened. Taylor and Ryder are expected back for the English tour in February, hopefully with a new coach in charge (but I'm not getting my hopes up).

I could also go into how little I like McCullum as a player, let alone as captain, but the fact that he refused batting advice from both Martin Crowe and John Wright, retorting that his "natural game" is better, should say enough. He's an idiot that thinks he's FAR better than he actually is.
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Sorry but the new page made me forget about this question I asked and you answered.

Pretty crazy story.

Taylor is definitely the best nz batsmen since Crowe, a real shame that he is not playing and captaining.

Yeah I don't like McCollum either, does reek of arrogance. Sounds like Fleming is a bit of a prick as well, I always thought he was alright bloke from the interviews I saw of him over the years.
 
Lamel

Lamel

Banned
Very, very impressive bowling attack by Pakistan. Ajmals record 5-23, and Junaids 1-17, both after 9 overs are really good.

Hoping for a white wash. Don't disappoint pakistani batting side.
 
C

chicko1983

Member
Grug said:
I'll never accept Warner as a Test cricketer.

Never.
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I think he will be a very good test cricketer. He's on the brink of working out his game, with 5 x 50s in his last 6 innings. Although he has given his wicket away a few times, he is getting good starts and looks like he wants a big innings.

He has 3 hundreds and 5 50s out of 26 test innings, which is good considering he is at the start of his career as an opener. This ratio of plus 50 scores to innings is pretty good slightly better than langers (29%) but slightly worse than Sehwag (31%). A. Cook is 33%, but I can gaurantee at the same number of tests, his ratio of starts per innings would have been less than Warner.

By the end of next home summer, I think he will be a very good test batsman.

His odi and t20 batting is well behind his test batting at the moment. Which is not a bad thing conspiring how much he is working on his long form batting.

Saadster said:
Very, very impressive bowling attack by Pakistan. Ajmals record 5-23, and Junaids 1-17, both after 9 overs are really good.

Hoping for a white wash. Don't disappoint pakistani batting side.
Click to expand...

Yeah ajmal bowled very well. Can't wait to see him bowl for the strikers in the big bash, I hope we make finals so he gets more than one match!
 
M

Monumental

Banned
Terrible fall of wickets and India win this match, but Pakistan solidify themselves as having probably the most dominant bowling attack in the world. What I wanna know is...how the hell is MSD man of the match when Saeed Ajmal just got 5-28? He wasn't even the highest run scorer in the match, and 36 runs is nothing to give MOTM over. That's just pandering.
 
Lamel

Lamel

Banned
Monumental said:
Terrible fall of wickets and India win this match, but Pakistan solidify themselves as having probably the most dominant bowling attack in the world. What I wanna know is...how the hell is MSD man of the match when Saeed Ajmal just got 5-28? He wasn't even the highest run scorer in the match, and 36 runs is nothing to give MOTM over. That's just pandering.
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Pity award?
 
G

Grug

Member
I'm normally able to see Warney's behavior as larrikinism but can't excuse his behaviour the other night. Lost the plot.
 
P

params7

Banned
Meh, Marlon started the physical stuff and Warne gave some back. One game suspension is fine.

A little down to see India get wrecked by Pakistan, England. After the horrible losses in England, I've just lost a lost of faith in the Indian team but I was at least expecting India to retain some of their stuff at home.
 
L

LiquidSolid

Member
chicko1983 said:
Sorry but the new page made me forget about this question I asked and you answered.

Pretty crazy story.

Taylor is definitely the best nz batsmen since Crowe, a real shame that he is not playing and captaining.

Yeah I don't like McCollum either, does reek of arrogance. Sounds like Fleming is a bit of a prick as well, I always thought he was alright bloke from the interviews I saw of him over the years.
Click to expand...

Sorry, only just realised you'd replied.

I still like Fleming but yeah, he has way too much influence. It seems to me like there's an old boys club of Fleming, Vettori and McCullum (with a couple younger guys, like Southee) and then there's everyone else. Once McCullum's out of captaincy contention, it should die down because despite the fact that they're trying to set Southee up in a leadership position, it's not going to work. If the captaincy doesn't go back to Taylor, it'll go to Williamson.
 
R

reptilescorpio

Member
Australia have been terrible. Will take an incredible effort from the bowlers to turn this around. Sri Lanka have been powerful, just strangling the Aussies at the crease.

3rd umpire thinks it's opposite day.
 
G

Grug

Member
Been waiting ages for Ben Cutting to finally get his chance and then he gets a rubbish total to bowl to.

What's the bet that he gets dropped and never seen again after this game.
 
R

reptilescorpio

Member
Sri Lanka played reallllly well. Australia needed to be on the money a various points throughout the day and just failed those moments terribly.

Haddin looks to have held his spot for now though.



Also NZ look ready to go home and have a nice long shower.
 
W

War Peaceman

You're a big guy.
New Zealand look completely broken. McCullum's captaincy should not be long for the world - though I feel because of the upheaval that brought it about (part of the cause of such abject performances) they will be reluctant to chop and change the captaincy as is genuinely required.
 
A

artist

Banned
Saadster said:
Pity award?
Click to expand...
It was no more a pity award than Jamshed getting the Man of the tournament when Dhoni had averaged 200+ almost twice as Jamshed's and the series aggregate of both wasnt much different either.

Dhoni top scored for India and was the only player on both sides who wasnt finding demons in the pitch (he also hit 3 sixes). Besides that he inspired and motivated his team to defend the third lowest total ever (for Ind v Pak).

Ajmal's 80% of wickets were tailenders. :lol

toddhunter said:
I actually see it as 100% staged.
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Agreed. BBL is like WWE if IPL is MMA.
 
B

beast786

Member
artist said:
It was no more a pity award than Jamshed getting the Man of the tournament when Dhoni had averaged 200+ almost twice as Jamshed's and the series aggregate of both wasnt much different either.

Dhoni top scored for India and was the only player on both sides who wasnt finding demons in the pitch (he also hit 3 sixes). Besides that he inspired and motivated his team to defend the third lowest total ever (for Ind v Pak).

.
Click to expand...

Jamshed open the innings when the new ball was swinging both ways and the top order was falling left and right on both team. he was the only player who took the bull by the horn and guided Pakistan to series victory until the dead rubber match.

dhoni played a fantastic knock but came when swing was almost gone, none of his inning were match winning. in fact he was criticized for not coming down the order to prevent those top order collapse, but he choose to come and avoid the new ball swing.

the result of the series would have been exactly the same if Dhoni averaged "0" in that series, unlike Jamshed if he averaged "0" Pakistan would have gotten white washed instead of winning the series.

Jamshed played two match winning inning against an arch rival in there hostile ground on the road.

I do agree that dhoni, inspired and motivated his team into victory in a dead rubber match, but where was that inspiration and motivation when it actually counted in first two deciding matches in which India lost by 85 runs and series lost at home? If you gonna give him credit for that win , then also criticize him on the two more important series losing losses.

he is a great player, no question. but was outshined by a match winning player
 
A

artist

Banned
beast786 said:
Jamshed open the innings when the new ball was swinging both ways and the top order was falling left and right on both team. he was the only player who took the bull by the horn and guided Pakistan to series victory until the dead rubber match.

dhoni played a fantastic knock but came when swing was almost gone, none of his inning were match winning. in fact he was criticized for not coming down the order to prevent those top order collapse, but he choose to come and avoid the new ball swing.

the result of the series would have been exactly the same if Dhoni averaged "0" in that series, unlike Jamshed if he averaged "0" Pakistan would have gotten white washed instead of winning the series.

Jamshed played two match winning inning against an arch rival in there hostile ground on the road.

I do agree that dhoni, inspired and motivated his team into victory in a dead rubber match, but where was that inspiration and motivation when it actually counted in first two deciding matches in which India lost by 85 runs and series lost at home? If you gonna give him credit for that win , then also criticize him on the two more important series losing losses.

he is a great player, no question. but was outshined by a match winning player
Click to expand...
If you go by my previous posts, I'm not a Dhoni fan. On the contrary I'm one of his biggest critics around here. But I do and will give him credit when it's due, just like I do to ANY other player. I'm not a fan of Dhoni's captaincy either, same goes for his biased tactics (players like Raina, Jadeja etc.).

Dhoni got 2 Man-of-the-Match awards out of three, that makes him the ideal candidate for the Man-of-the-tournament award, doesn't it? So Jamshed getting the MoT was a pity award?

It's a completely moot point regarding the result being the same if Dhoni averaged zero, same goes for Pakistan being white-washed if Jamshed had averaged zero. Jamshed's real match winning innings was in the first game. In the second game, the MoTM should have been Hafeez. Dude was the one who took control of the game in the Jamshed-Hafeez partnership, besides he bowled 10 overs for measly 29 runs and took a wicket. In fact, I dont agree with the MoTM choices for the first two games, it should have been Jamshed for #1 ODI and Hafeez for #2 ODI. Saying all this keeping my bias aside, as you've already seen I'm a big believer in Jamshed as a long term prospect for Pakistan.

In the end it was a good series and I hope there are more Ind-Pak series in the future. Pakistan has one of the best sides in terms of teams undergoing transition and India have a lot of gaps to fill, including the captaincy. Honestly feel Dhoni should just give it up and focus on his own game and go back to his natural game, maybe bat up the order as well.
 
B

beast786

Member
artist said:
If you go by my previous posts, I'm not a Dhoni fan. On the contrary I'm one of his biggest critics around here. But I do and will give him credit when it's due, just like I do to ANY other player. I'm not a fan of Dhoni's captaincy either, same goes for his biased tactics (players like Raina, Jadeja etc.).

Dhoni got 2 Man-of-the-Match awards out of three, that makes him the ideal candidate for the Man-of-the-tournament award, doesn't it? So Jamshed getting the MoT was a pity award?

It's a completely moot point regarding the result being the same if Dhoni averaged zero, same goes for Pakistan being white-washed if Jamshed had averaged zero. Jamshed's real match winning innings was in the first game. In the second game, the MoTM should have been Hafeez. Dude was the one who took control of the game in the Jamshed-Hafeez partnership, besides he bowled 10 overs for measly 29 runs and took a wicket. In fact, I dont agree with the MoTM choices for the first two games, it should have been Jamshed for #1 ODI and Hafeez for #2 ODI. Saying all this keeping my bias aside, as you've already seen I'm a big believer in Jamshed as a long term prospect for Pakistan.

In the end it was a good series and I hope there are more Ind-Pak series in the future. Pakistan has one of the best sides in terms of teams undergoing transition and India have a lot of gaps to fill, including the captaincy. Honestly feel Dhoni should just give it up and focus on his own game and go back to his natural game, maybe bat up the order as well.
Click to expand...

I know you are not a big fan of dhoni, funny thing is I am. If I had to pick one player from Indian team it would be him.

As per MOT, we will agree to disagree on that one.
 
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