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The New and Improved Cricket Thread© - Now Roadblock Free!

L

legend166

Member
Salazar said:
Bwahahahaha.

Looks good for the Ashes, Australia.
Click to expand...


Still very confident we'll beat England.

Very, very confident.

Losing in India isn't exactly an uncommon event.

Our middle order sucks though. Clarke had a crappy series, but he's had a few good years so that's excusable. It just looked worse because Hussey and North are terrible. And they've both had a terrible few years. My lineup for the first test at the Gabba would be:

Watson
Katich
Ponting
Clarke
Khawaja
Hughes
Paine
Smith
Johnson
Hilfenhaus
Bollinger

Will never happen though. Hussey and North will have to be caught double teaming Hilditch's wife before being dropped. And even then he'd probably just join in.

I'm picking Hilf for man of the series.
 
C

Cerebral Assassin

Member
chicko1983 said:
er, no. Its pretty hard to bowl wrist spin with out a fully straight elbow at the point of delivery.
.
Click to expand...

Every bowler flexes his arm at the point of delivery to a certain extent(hence the 14 degree rule was bought in), no one claims all bowlers should wear a brace to ensure a straight arm.
 
C

chicko1983

Member
Cerebral Assassin said:
Every bowler flexes his arm at the point of delivery to a certain extent(hence the 14 degree rule was bought in), no one claims all bowlers should wear a brace to ensure a straight arm.
Click to expand...

14deg is far from "a certain extent", that is a blatant throw. Yeah, 1 or 2 degrees is acceptable due to joint flexure in the elbow but you have to actually try to straighten the elbow to get it up around 14deg.

And I stick by my statement that a wrist spinner, like Shane Warne, would not straighten his elbow after delivery at all. It is as straight as you can get it and the rotation of his shoulder makes it impossible to straighten it any further. As I said, try it out.

Its not about claiming all bowlers should wear a brace, its mainly about the spirit of the game (I'm still not sure Indians truly understand that phrase) and that your arm should not straighten once you let go of the ball.

Your mentality of the doosra is clearly against the spirit of the game - you have to straighten the arm to bowl the doosra i.e. you have to conscientiously go against the spirit of the game in order to bowl it. Even if you straighten the arm to, say, 12 deg, but are doing it consciously in order to bowl the doosra, that is just as bad as straightening your arm 35 degress IMO.

That is the difference between an Aussie mentality on chucking and some type of "we'll change the rules to make blatant straightening of the arm legal 'cause it suits us and we make the rules 'cause we have the money" type of mentality.
 
C

Cerebral Assassin

Member
chicko1983 said:
14deg is far from "a certain extent", that is a blatant throw. Yeah, 1 or 2 degrees is acceptable due to joint flexure in the elbow but you have to actually try to straighten the elbow to get it up around 14deg.

And I stick by my statement that a wrist spinner, like Shane Warne, would not straighten his elbow after delivery at all. It is as straight as you can get it and the rotation of his shoulder makes it impossible to straighten it any further. As I said, try it out.

Its not about claiming all bowlers should wear a brace, its mainly about the spirit of the game (I'm still not sure Indians truly understand that phrase) and that your arm should not straighten once you let go of the ball.

Your mentality of the doosra is clearly against the spirit of the game - you have to straighten the arm to bowl the doosra i.e. you have to conscientiously go against the spirit of the game in order to bowl it. Even if you straighten the arm to, say, 12 deg, but are doing it consciously in order to bowl the doosra, that is just as bad as straightening your arm 35 degress IMO.

That is the difference between an Aussie mentality on chucking and some type of "we'll change the rules to make blatant straightening of the arm legal 'cause it suits us and we make the rules 'cause we have the money" type of mentality.
Click to expand...

An Aussie going on about the "spirit of the game", I've heard everything now, I'm sure the virulent brand of sledging introduced to the game by the Aust. team of the 90's was about the spirit of the game & nothing to do with winning at all costs.

As for the chucking, you do know that Murali bowled a Doosra with a brace on don't you( & on certain deliveries Glen Mcgrath arm flexed over 10 degrees, so its not only spinners that need regulation). Also an ICC biomechanist thinks it can be bowled legally:
Bruce Elliott, the UWA professor who is also the ICC biomechanist, had made an interesting discovery in his dealings with finger spinners. "He said he had found that a lot of bowlers from the subcontinent could bowl the doosra legally, but not Caucasian bowlers," Barnes said. "Actually a lot of guys bowl the doosra in the nets, but they won't risk it in a match.
Click to expand...

The difference between an Aussie mentality on chucking & the rest of the world's (as most countries have a spinner who can bowl a doosra) is the Aussie way of thinking has no basis in science & is a cheap dig at one of the best bowlers of all time, if the rest of the world agreed we would be proclaiming Mcgrath(which I'm not) as a chucker(which by the rules you are suggesting he certainly was).
 
T

tri_willy

Member
legend166 said:
Still very confident we'll beat England.

Very, very confident.

Losing in India isn't exactly an uncommon event.

Our middle order sucks though. Clarke had a crappy series, but he's had a few good years so that's excusable. It just looked worse because Hussey and North are terrible. And they've both had a terrible few years. My lineup for the first test at the Gabba would be:

Watson
Katich
Ponting
Clarke
Khawaja
Hughes
Paine
Smith
Johnson
Hilfenhaus
Bollinger

Will never happen though. Hussey and North will have to be caught double teaming Hilditch's wife before being dropped. And even then he'd probably just join in.

I'm picking Hilf for man of the series.
Click to expand...

not that i hate the guy, but clarke needs to be out of that series...

watson
katich
ponting
hughes
??????
khawaja
paine
smith
johnson
hilfenhaus
bollinger

do i dare say david hussey??? why not give him a try if the other hussey is failing... that middle order of clarke, hussey and north is the weakest link in the aussie team.

btw, the last person i can recall who got dropped making a century would be.... gillespie!!! on a double fucking hundred!!! haha even if it was again bangladesh
 
C

chicko1983

Member
Cerebral Assassin said:
An Aussie going on about the "spirit of the game", I've heard everything now, I'm sure the virulent brand of sledging introduced to the game by the Aust. team of the 90's was about the spirit of the game & nothing to do with winning at all costs.

As for the chucking, you do know that Murali bowled a Doosra with a brace on don't you( & on certain deliveries Glen Mcgrath arm flexed over 10 degrees, so its not only spinners that need regulation). Also an ICC biomechanist thinks it can be bowled legally:


The difference between an Aussie mentality on chucking & the rest of the world's (as most countries have a spinner who can bowl a doosra) is the Aussie way of thinking has no basis in science & is a cheap dig at one of the best bowlers of all time, if the rest of the world agreed we would be proclaiming Mcgrath(which I'm not) as a chucker(which by the rules you are suggesting he certainly was).
Click to expand...

If you think virulent sledging was started by the Aussies in the 90s you are completely wrong and Aussie mentality has never been "win at all costs". You are getting confused with what is called Australianism and was written about last century by Arlott, an Englishman:
Australianism," wrote Arlott, "means single-minded determination to win - to win within the laws but, if necessary, to the last limit within them. It means where the 'impossible' is within the realm of what the human body can do, there are Australians who believe that they can do it - and who have succeeded often enough to make us wonder if anything is impossible to them. It means they have never lost a match - particularly a Test match - until the last run is scored or their last wicket down."
Click to expand...

And yes, I thought McGrath was a chucker as well. And Brett Lee also.

Murali's doosra was banned and Bruce Elliott said is talking about the doosras being legal only if there was a 10 to 15 deg degree allowance, you took his quote completely out of context.
After the ICC yesterday effectively banned Muralitharan from bowling his doosra - a delivery deemed illegal last month, though retained in the Sri Lankan's arsenal until last weekend's record-breaking Test performance in Zimbabwe - Elliott felt the ICC had been pressured into retaining the five-degree limit.
Click to expand...
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/05/12/1084289753785.html

What happened was, the doosra was banned 'cause you couldnt bowl it with less than 5deg straightening. Then this guy, one biomechanist, provided a report to the ICC saying that the rule should be changed to 15deg (I thought it was 14deg). The thing is, at that time in Australia, there were plenty of other biomechanics experts who were saying that over 10deg was not natural, yet the ICC has used his report.

So pre-doosra days the legal limit was 5deg. That is what it should have stayed at and if the bowler had a "natural" flex, yes he should have been made to wear a brace or not bowl at all.

But Shane Warne is the greatest bowler of all time and he didn't throw it. The best quick was Wasim Akram and he didnt throw it either.
 
C

Cerebral Assassin

Member
chicko1983 said:
If you think virulent sledging was started by the Aussies in the 90s you are completely wrong and Aussie mentality has never been "win at all costs". You are getting confused with what is called Australianism and was written about last century by Arlott, an Englishman:
Click to expand...

I would suggest that sledging is closer to a win at all costs mentality than it it is to the spirit of the game.
And yes, I thought McGrath was a chucker as well. And Brett Lee also.
Murali's doosra was banned and Bruce Elliott said is talking about the doosras being legal only if there was a 10 to 15 deg degree allowance, you took his quote completely out of context. http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/05/12/1084289753785.html

What happened was, the doosra was banned 'cause you couldnt bowl it with less than 5deg straightening. Then this guy, one biomechanist, provided a report to the ICC saying that the rule should be changed to 15deg (I thought it was 14deg). The thing is, at that time in Australia, there were plenty of other biomechanics experts who were saying that over 10deg was not natural, yet the ICC has used his report.

So pre-doosra days the legal limit was 5deg. That is what it should have stayed at and if the bowler had a "natural" flex, yes he should have been made to wear a brace or not bowl at all.

But Shane Warne is the greatest bowler of all time and he didn't throw it. The best quick was Wasim Akram and he didnt throw it either.
Click to expand...

So your ideal law would be back to the 5 degrees but, as a deviation of under 10-15 degrees isn't visible to the naked eye, should all bowlers be tested when they are capped at test level? As for the doosra, I've seen Murali bowl it with a brace on with no straightening possible.
 
L

legend166

Member
tri_willy said:
not that i hate the guy, but clarke needs to be out of that series...

watson
katich
ponting
hughes
??????
khawaja
paine
smith
johnson
hilfenhaus
bollinger

do i dare say david hussey??? why not give him a try if the other hussey is failing... that middle order of clarke, hussey and north is the weakest link in the aussie team.

btw, the last person i can recall who got dropped making a century would be.... gillespie!!! on a double fucking hundred!!! haha even if it was again bangladesh
Click to expand...

Clarke had a bad series, no doubt. But he's been great over the last 3 years. No need to drop him when North and Hussey are the main problem.
 
C

chicko1983

Member
Cerebral Assassin said:
So your ideal law would be back to the 5 degrees but, as a deviation of under 10-15 degrees isn't visible to the naked eye, should all bowlers be tested when they are capped at test level? As for the doosra, I've seen Murali bowl it with a brace on with no straightening possible.
Click to expand...

Ideally, yes you would check all test bowlers. Practically, that is impossible.
Currently, it is up to the field umpire to report a suspect action to the match review panel and then the MRP to take it to the ICC to test if they believe the delivery is suspect.

But what umpire would report an Indian when the ICC is so financially dependant on the BCCI? It would be a quick way to find yourself out of a job, ala Darell Hare

On a side note, I just read on cricinfo:
BCCI officials to scrutinise UDRS during Ashes said:
The ICC hopes that the next few months could be a 'turning point' for the UDRS. It maintains that studies have proved that the DRS system increases the percentage of correct decision-making from 92% to around 97%
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who cares if the review technology is not 100%. If the correct decision making rate increases by 5%, how is that bad for cricket?
 
A

artist

Banned
india_mumbai_dhobi_ghats_white_wash.jpg
 
Y

Yagharek

Member
watching this odi on fox sports, and fuck me these two commentators are annoying. What is it with people continually wanting to make test and one day cricket more and more like fake cricket (t20)?

Thankfully there is a mute button.
 
G

Grug

Member
tri_willy said:
wow @ whitey, some juicy sixes to make the total more competitive
Click to expand...

Just saw the innings highlights on Fox Sports News.

Geez he was hitting some of those clean as a whistle.

May stay up and watch the Indian chase.
 
W

whatsinaname

Member
RandomVince said:
watching this odi on fox sports, and fuck me these two commentators are annoying. What is it with people continually wanting to make test and one day cricket more and more like fake cricket (t20)?

Thankfully there is a mute button.
Click to expand...


Hit mute and listen to a live stream by http://www.testmatchsofa.com/

They usually do not do ODIs but are good fun for test matches.

(They are commenting on this ODI though)
 
G

Grug

Member
Pains me to say it as a Queenslander but James Hopes isn't international class anymore. The game has gone past him.
 
A

artist

Banned
First EVER Srilankan series win on Australian soil, feels great. SL move to 2 over India, well deservedly. Just perfect!
 
G

Grug

Member
ItAintEasyBeinCheesy said:
Much better performance over all.

India look in trouble against NZ, 3/3 in the second.
Click to expand...

15/5 now. W-T-F!

Laxman is India's designated "dig us out of a hole" specialist. He'll probably do it again.
 
M

Mush

6.0
That story Simon Doull told about Martin not having a license to drive and having to bike to practices without batting gear for 5+ years is incredible! Never heard about that before.
 
S

snaildog

Member
CharliePants said:
He improved his batting average today as well :lol
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That batting performance almost ruined his lovely stat of having twice as many wickets as runs. Had to deliver with the ball to make up for it!
 
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