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The Official Camera Equipment Megathread

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Forsete

Forsete

Member
According to Sonyalpharumors.com the new NEX7 (advanced mirrorless) is supposed to share the sensor with the coming SLT-A77. Which according to rumors uses a 24MP APS-C sensor.

Isn't 24MP a bit overkill for APS-C? Wont this cause diffraction to be a problem sooner than "normal"? I read some discussions that one reason for going with a 24MP APS-C sensor is that they want to get rid of the AA-filter. If so that would be interesting.

A77 is supposed to be a fast camera (A55 is already capable of going up to 10fps(in Speed/Shutter priority mode or whatever it is called)), shifting around 24MP RAW files will require a bit of power. The camera is already sounding very expensive. :p

Its all rumors for now though.
 
B

BlueTsunami

there is joy in sucking dick
reggieandTFE said:
but zooms are going to be huge and unwieldy on those bodies.
Click to expand...

I think its all relative. Zoom lenses will always compromise the size of the body in favor of versatility. With the NEX its great that you can place a pancake or rangefinder lens and have a fairly small form to work with without having to resort to using a CCTV size equivalent sensor. I'd honestly rather buy a point and shoot with a recessed lens at that point if small and slim is that important. But I won't begrudge anyone wanting this Pentax offering, its just not for me.


Forsete said:
Isn't 24MP a bit overkill for APS-C? Wont this cause diffraction to be a problem sooner than "normal"? I read some discussions that one reason for going with a 24MP APS-C sensor is that they want to get rid of the AA-filter. If so that would be interesting.
Click to expand...

One thing I know for sure, people are going to be disgusted in the Sony 16/2.8 if they try to mount it to such a dense sensor. They really need to roll out high quality NEX native lenses that can take advantage of such a high resolution sensor (like the Zeiss). The Canon 5DMKII and Sony A900 are already testing the limits of certain top of the line lenses and they're obviously full frame.

I've also read reports that the AA filter on the original NEX(s) is pretty weak for a modern digital camera (along with the Leica M9 which does not have an AA filter). I wouldn't be surprised if Sony try to phase it out. Though I think moire will always be an issue unless the photographer uses post software to deal with it.

But I'm excited for the NEX7 and I hope they do a lot to differentiate the 7 and the 3c for entry level and advanced photographers.
 
Forsete

Forsete

Member
BlueTsunami said:
One thing I know for sure, people are going to be disgusted in the Sony 16/2.8 if they try to mount it to such a dense sensor. They really need to roll out high quality NEX native lenses that can take advantage of such a high resolution sensor (like the Zeiss). The Canon 5DMKII and Sony A900 are already testing the limits of certain top of the line lenses and they're obviously full frame.

I've already read reports that the AA filter on the original NEX(s) is pretty weak for a modern digital camera (along with the Leica M9 which does not have an AA filter). I wouldn't be surprised if Sony try to phase it out. Though I think moire will always be an issue unless the photographer uses post software to deal with it.
Click to expand...

My guess if the rumors are true, the 24mm Zeiss lens would be released with the NEX7, hopefully sooner than that because I want one BADLY. :p
Also IIRC Zeiss will be releasing NEX lenses independently of Sony, but they will be hugely expensive.

Btw, how do the Voigtländer, Zeiss and other HQ none native NEX lenses fair on the system? I haven't checked it out in detail.

But I'm excited for the NEX7 and I hope they do a lot to differentiate the 7 and the 3c for entry level and advanced photographers.
Click to expand...

Same here.
Based on what was said a while ago, it is supposed to be a bigger camera than the current NEX with more features (buttons and software).
 
B

BlueTsunami

there is joy in sucking dick
Forsete said:
Btw, how do the Voigtländer, Zeiss and other HQ none native NEX lenses fair on the system? I haven't checked it out in detail.
Click to expand...

The rangefinder offerings from these companies are supposed to be very, very good. The modern Leica-M lenses, obviously, are phenomenal but very pricey. I've seen gorgeous stuff from Leica's relatively modestly priced Summarit line of lenses on the NEX though.

The Zeiss Biogons are also extremely good (the 25/2.8 Biogon supposedly being one of the sharpest lenses ever tested in this focal length). And great neutral bokeh when up close. There are other gems too.

Voigtländer also provides great rangefinder lenses but they tend to have more compromises (physically and optically) than the Zeiss lenses at similar focal lengths. Great budget lenses. A much loved lens from them is the 35/1.2 and 1.4, both go for under $1000 (the 1.4 at around $600 and the 1.2 @ $900).

I was actually interested to see how a NEX looks with the Voigtlander 35 Nokton, here's a great blog entry I found...

http://eugenekan.com/blog/2011/02/08/new-toy-sony-nex-5-x-voigtlander-35mm-f1-4-nokton/

With all that said there seems to be two issues with rangefinder lenses. One is Minimum Focus Distance which is generally pretty long (a limitation in rangefinder shooting that has manufactures developing these lenses with a long MFD) and when going wider than 28mm you'll get color shifting (like vignetting but with a very noticeable magenta color, this can be fixed with something like Cornerfix).

All in all though, its great Sony developed the NEX as open as it is. The native offering may be scant but there's a huge amount of adaptable lenses that the NEX can take and even more that even Canons DSLRs can't take (rangefinder lenses).
 
C

captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
BlueTsunami said:
Very small sensor and C-Mount lenses. That's disappointing. Guess no one wants to challenge Sony and their NEX.
Click to expand...
not sure i follow? micro 4/3rds line offers more cameras, more lenses and just as many if not more adapter mount options.
 
T

tino

Banned
BlueTsunami said:
I think its all relative. Zoom lenses will always compromise the size of the body in favor of versatility. With the NEX its great that you can place a pancake or rangefinder lens and have a fairly small form to work with without having to resort to using a CCTV size equivalent sensor. I'd honestly rather buy a point and shoot with a recessed lens at that point if small and slim is that important. But I won't begrudge anyone wanting this Pentax offering, its just not for me.
Click to expand...

A mirrorless system with a 1/1.7"ish sensor make some kind of sense, basically its a modular LX5/XZ-1/F200 thats smaller than m4/3 system.

With a 1/2.3", or 1/2.6" sensor....you can already buy a P&S with that finger nail sized sensor and a 10X zoom in front of it, why the hell do you need interchangeable lenses?

Pentax is ridiculous. This is their worst move since naming their first digital SLR *ist D. No, this is their worst move since the power zoom. Shit is dumb.

One thing I know for sure, people are going to be disgusted in the Sony 16/2.8 if they try to mount it to such a dense sensor. They really need to roll out high quality NEX native lenses that can take advantage of such a high resolution sensor (like the Zeiss). The Canon 5DMKII and Sony A900 are already testing the limits of certain top of the line lenses and they're obviously full frame.

I've also read reports that the AA filter on the original NEX(s) is pretty weak for a modern digital camera (along with the Leica M9 which does not have an AA filter). I wouldn't be surprised if Sony try to phase it out. Though I think moire will always be an issue unless the photographer uses post software to deal with it.

But I'm excited for the NEX7 and I hope they do a lot to differentiate the 7 and the 3c for entry level and advanced photographers.
Click to expand...

I hope their still make a c5 for people who want high ISO performance over resolution.
 
T

tokkun

Member
tino said:
A mirrorless system with a 1/1.7"ish sensor make some kind of sense, basically its a modular LX5/XZ-1/F200 thats smaller than m4/3 system.

With a 1/2.3", or 1/2.6" sensor....you can already buy a P&S with that finger nail sized sensor and a 10X zoom in front of it, why the hell do you need interchangeable lenses?

Pentax is ridiculous. This is their worst move since naming their first digital SLR *ist D. No, this is their worst move since the power zoom. Shit is dumb.
Click to expand...

It does seem like a pretty inscrutable move. My $200 compact digital from 3 years ago has a single convenient lens that can do a 28mm equivalent wide angle, 336mm equivalent telephoto, and a macro with a minimum focus distance of 0 mm. No bulky bags of lenses, no lens swapping, and no lens cover. Granted, you would get better IQ with dedicated lenses, but only thing it's really "missing" is the low light ability of a fast prime. But if low-light shooting is a priority, then you would want a larger sensor anyway.
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
captive said:
not sure i follow? micro 4/3rds line offers more cameras, more lenses and just as many if not more adapter mount options.
Click to expand...

I think the point being nobody is going for APS-C sensor sizes.

Nex 7 sounds nice, but they really need a better lineup of lenses if they want to persuade people to buy higher end cameras
 
B

BlueTsunami

there is joy in sucking dick
captive said:
not sure i follow? micro 4/3rds line offers more cameras, more lenses and just as many if not more adapter mount options.
Click to expand...

Basically what mrklaw said. Not saying that M4/3rds isn't a viable system but I enjoy shooting with thin DoF at a normal focal length. All things being equal I'd have to get that Voigtlander 25/0.95 to approximate the DOF and FOV of a 50mm f/1.4 equivalent lens on an APS-C camera and nothing exists to get the same look of Full Frame (which I eventually want to move to). So the crop factor for the M4/3rd cameras is moving in the opposite direction of where I want to be. Pentax is going more extreme in the opposite direction with an even smaller sensor.

mrklaw said:
whats contrast detect thingy? Sounds like it'd work with non nex lenses (eg canon FD via adapter)?
Click to expand...

I think the term for it is "Focus Peaking"? If it is, here's a video of the feature on the Canon 550D with custom firmware...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5nEz6oMGBU

I think the NEX implementation of this will be better though since its coming from Sony. It'll definitely help with manual focus users. You should be able to judge the point of focus via the shift in color instead of having to constantly magnify the image. Will almost feel rangefinder like in regards to how quick it should be to judge the area of focus, shoot and move on.
 
3

345triangle

Member
the peaking feature is cool on NEX, but for some reason isn't in the a55 update. ah well.

i like the picture effects for what they are - pretty solid, and they don't slow down the live view like the ones i've seen on PEN etc. not sure i'll use them as a RAW shooter, but nice to know they're there.
 
3

345triangle

Member
Valkyr Junkie said:
Is that even possible with the AF method on the SLTs?
Click to expand...

oh i guess it must be based on contrast detection, yeah that makes sense. still would be nice to have the option for macro stuff etc though! the old sony SLRs used to offer a slower high-res contrast detection live view mode, back when their secondary phase sensors were lo-res.
 
K

Kamakazie!

Member
Forsete said:
Same here.
Based on what was said a while ago, it is supposed to be a bigger camera than the current NEX with more features (buttons and software).
Click to expand...

Hopefully for use M4/3 users as the success of the current Nex line has ended up with both Panasonic & Olympus focusing on making their GF & EPL lines smaller rather than better.

The Olympus rumours circulating at the moment are encouraging though with the super fast new AF. One thing about my EPL2 (still better than the EPL1 though) that I am not so happy with.
Still I chose this over the Nex line for the better lens choice and more compact camera + lens combo. As a result I am still happy but just hope in 2 or so years when I eventually upgrade, the bodies are where I want them to be.
 
S

Spayro

Member
I want to get a lens for my Canon 7d for around 1300$ max.. what's my best option? I need a general walk-around lens, maybe some wedding shooting, stuff like that.
Thinking towards the 24-105mm f4L, but I heard some people weren't very satisfied with it, saying it's not as sharp as other L lenses, etc. any ideas?
 
T

tino

Banned
Spayro said:
I want to get a lens for my Canon 7d for around 1300$ max.. what's my best option? I need a general walk-around lens, maybe some wedding shooting, stuff like that.
Thinking towards the 24-105mm f4L, but I heard some people weren't very satisfied with it, saying it's not as sharp as other L lenses, etc. any ideas?
Click to expand...
It's not as sharp as other L lenses becuse its a 4X zoom. Maybe Canon shouldn't give L designation to a high ratio zoom but it sells like hot cakes. If you want to carry only one lens, there is no way to avoid high ratio zoom. Its he BMW X5 of the L lenses. :)
 
B

bean breath

Member
Top view comparison of the new Pen Mini EPM-1 with the XZ-1:


TaMuk.jpg



Link
 
D

Danoss

Member
Spayro said:
I want to get a lens for my Canon 7d for around 1300$ max.. what's my best option? I need a general walk-around lens, maybe some wedding shooting, stuff like that.
Thinking towards the 24-105mm f4L, but I heard some people weren't very satisfied with it, saying it's not as sharp as other L lenses, etc. any ideas?
Click to expand...
I have it as one of 2 walk-around lenses, but only take it with me when I'm expecting to not need wide shots. The lens that is attached to my 7D a lot of the time is the Tamron 17-50/2.8 (non-IS).

The Tamron is an excellent walk-around lens, especially for the price. The AF does make a bit of noise, so something to keep in mind with shooting weddings, but it's only really apparrent when the AF has to move the focus a long way.
 
Forsete

Forsete

Member
First "finalized" pictures of the final SLT-A77.

286vhfp.jpg


The camera has not been officially announced, it was supposed to be announced next month
but due to manufacturing difficulties (due to the earthquake) the announcement has been postponed for one month.

According to SAR the specs are not 100% finalized, but here is what the site says.

24 Megapixels APS-C sensor
ISO 100-102400
3 million dot OLED EVF
Over 10fps
11 cross point AF sensors
Video: 1080p/30, 720p/60/30
USB 3.0
Compact Flash, Secure Digital, Memory Stick
Battery: 1000 pictures per charge
Double Bionz image processors (like the A900)

Price: ~$1000 according to SAR, shipments early October.

A65 will replace A55.
The new NEX7 (called Pro by SAR) will share this sensor.
A new NEX-VG10 (video camera with APS-C sensor) is also going to be announced

Excite? Excite!

Source: http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/
 
B

BlueTsunami

there is joy in sucking dick
Please Sony, make a top mountable version of that EVF for the NEX! They'll never do it though since it may eat into sales of the SLT series cameras. Mannn, 3Million dot OLED, it must be like shooting rainbows into your eye.
 
T

tokkun

Member
Wow, those SLTs look a lot better. I think I may see what I can get for my a55 used at the end of the Summer, then upgrade in October. The battery and flip-out screen are the two major issues I have with the a55 now.
 
B

BlueTsunami

there is joy in sucking dick
bean breath said:
I like this shot from DPreview:

http://i.imgur.com/jVgx4l.jpg[IMG]

And for $700? Ouch.[/QUOTE]


Super small sensor but its not even dramatically smaller than the NEX? Pentax don' goofed. They could have probably made it even smaller (and allowed the mount to extend out like the NEX) but at that point the LCD would probably have to be shrunk to an unusable level.
Click to expand...
 
B

Blackhead

Redarse
So... what' the deal with this Lytro 'Picture Revolution' story? It's just suddenly all over the press:

Manu Kumar (investor) said:
a phenomenal reception in the press:And here is what the folks are saying:

  • “The Lytro camera captures far more light data, from many angles, than is possible with a conventional camera.” New York Time, Steve Lohr
  • “Since images are focused after the fact, users don’t have to spend time focusing before shooting. Nor do they have to worry if they wound up focusing on the wrong thing.” Wall Street Journal, Don Clark
  • “Lytro’s breakthrough new camera hinges on a new kind of sensor that captures the entire light field around a picture, rather than only a single light field like current cameras capture.” VentureBeat, Sean Ludwig
  • “Lytro is developing a new type of camera that dramatically changes photography for the first time since the 1800s.” TechCrunch, Sarah Lacy
  • “A Mountain View start-up is promising that its camera, due later this year, will bring the biggest change to photography since the transition from film to digital. Ordinarily, I’m turned off by such hyperbole, but after having seen a demo from Lytro, that statement seems downright reasonable.” All Things Digital, Ina Fried
  • “Lytro is unveiling some fascinating new camera technology that could be a major leap in photography–maybe the biggest since the shift from film to digital.” Forbes Tomio Geron
  • “After seeing Lytro’s editing capabilities in action, I can tell you it’s much, much cooler than anything current cameras and image editing software will let you do. And yes, the company’s technology even has the potential to become a breakthrough innovation in the camera industry.” Fortune, Michal Lev-Ram
  • “At first, Lytro will make and market its own camera. I really can’t wait. Imagine being able to pick and choose just what is in focus when you get back home, just like we can do now with white balance and — to a certain extent — exposure. If it works as well as it seems from these sample photos, this could be huge.” Wired, Charlie Sorrel
  • “That click you just heard? That was the sound of photography as we know it changing.” Fast Company, Kit Eaton
Click to expand...

but when you check out the website, there isn't any camera there...

Ken Rockwell said:
Who Cares: Lytro

Lytro's PR engine is working overtime getting the innocent excited about another technically interesting, but irrelevant, technology.

Lytro claims to have a camera sensor technology coming that captures not just intensity at each point on the sensor, but also direction. This, and only after using a whole lot of computer power to process all the vector data, lets one choose focus after the fact. It's like a raw file that still hasn't been focused.

So?

Compact and cell-phone cameras already get everything in focus, and every other camera focuses just fine, all without needing all the computational overhead of the Lytro system.

Just like the Foveon sensor whose inventors told us it would change the world, but forgot that it has a basic problem with light sensitivity, the many pitfalls of the Lytro system are yet to be seen. Most likely, it will also have a problem with quantum efficiency (high ISOs) because it is critical for it to resolve direction in addition to simply intensity at each point.

I see these things all the time. We can forget about it until someone actually has a product to sell, and then we can evaluate it on its own merit. THe best and only thing Lytro has to pitch as an advantage is the ability to set focus after the picture is taken, but for that one minor advantage, there are a huge number of yet unknown disadvantages.

Considering that the people who most need this, casual cell-phone snappers, need it least because those cameras have huge depths-of-field, I wouldn't invest in this.

THe theory is here, but we need real cameras, not hypotheses.

My lab and mind are always open to look at anything, but based on the PR, this is a yawner so far.

Wake me when something interesting arrives, like the new LEICA 21mm lens, or Fuji starts shipping the X100 in quantity.
Click to expand...

... nothing to see here, move along?

Edit: found out there is a company that already makes cameras using this tech. No price there though so I'm guessing it's crazy expensive.
 
D

Danoss

Member
Ken Rockwell is that last person I would listen to about photography. That includes the weird homeless guy in town who carries his pillow around by stuffing it up his shirt.
 
X

XMonkey

lacks enthusiasm.
So?

Compact and cell-phone cameras already get everything in focus, and every other camera focuses just fine, all without needing all the computational overhead of the Lytro system.
Click to expand...
*facepalm*
 
T

tino

Banned
The only thing new is the fake bokeh "tech". I do it all the time, on Photoshop. The plugin is called "alien skin bokeh."
 
Z

Zyzyxxz

Member
BlueTsunami said:
Super small sensor but its not even dramatically smaller than the NEX? Pentax don' goofed. They could have probably made it even smaller (and allowed the mount to extend out like the NEX) but at that point the LCD would probably have to be shrunk to an unusable level.
Click to expand...

I don't think the camera could be any smaller, in fact the pictures make it look tiny

2011-06-23-dsc06843.jpg


I would rather they put a larger sensor in it. Either way there is still one more small form factor camera coming out from Pentax.
 
T

tino

Banned
MRORANGE said:
I do like the design, but at that price point and that sensor size it's not looking good, I won't mind purchasing one if it was 1/2 the price I guess.
Click to expand...


Lets say you win 10 millions dollars... why the hell would you buy that camera? Some of the lenses have no aperture control and MF only.
 
3

345triangle

Member
i like the way that camera looks and it'd probably be a lot of fun to use (especially with the cheap toy lenses) but if it's really $800 then jesus christ no. it's like the x100 of point-and-shoots.
 
3

345triangle

Member
speaking of retro gimmicks, here are some test shots i took with a couple of the new NEX picture effects:

2le5hf8.jpg


tumblr_ln8zyrB3gF1qbsgauo1_500.jpg


tumblr_ln8zygtMoC1qbsgauo1_500.jpg


tumblr_ln8zxzKYnd1qbsgauo1_500.jpg


tumblr_ln70laJOfl1qbsgauo1_500.jpg


tumblr_ln70l0w2p41qbsgauo1_500.jpg


tumblr_ln56w4kyZv1qbsgauo1_500.jpg


tumblr_ln56vhNe4G1qbsgauo1_500.jpg


first four are high contrast B&W, second four are toy camera. i kind of like them.
 
3

345triangle

Member
yeah, it's almost exactly what i normally do to my B&W photos anyway!

i guess the lack of shadow control in JPEGs might be a problem theoretically, but the effect works well enough that i'll probably actually use it from time to time.
 
M

MRORANGE

Member
tino said:
Lets say you win 10 millions dollars... why the hell would you buy that camera? Some of the lenses have no aperture control and MF only.
Click to expand...

If I had 10 million dollars I would buy everyone in this thread this camera lol, granted some the lenses are pretty feeble and like I mentioned the sensor size does not help at all, but it would be interesting to mount cttv lenses onto this thing, I would not consider this a serious camera, but more or a casual/portable camera that you took with you everywhere.
 
T

the_log_ride

Member
345triangle said:
yeah, it's almost exactly what i normally do to my B&W photos anyway!

i guess the lack of shadow control in JPEGs might be a problem theoretically, but the effect works well enough that i'll probably actually use it from time to time.
Click to expand...

I agree that the b&w shots look good. I haven't been keeping up, but what were those taken with?
 
mclaren777

mclaren777

Member
I rented a Canon 24-105mm lens last weekend for a family get-together and I was surprised by how slow it was. Here are three shots from throughout the day that show what I mean. I would have expected much faster shutter speeds given that it was really sunny all afternoon. And many of the pictures that were taken in the shade are roughly 1/80s @ 800+ ISO.

Does anybody here have experience with this lens? I'm really perplexed by the results.

GtTJg.jpg


W9ziT.jpg


2ViUK.jpg
 
C

captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
mclaren777 said:
I rented a Canon 24-105mm lens last weekend for a family get-together and I was surprised by how slow it was. Here are three shots from throughout the day that show what I mean. I would have expected much faster shutter speeds given that it was really sunny all afternoon. And many of the pictures that were taken in the shade are roughly 1/80s @ 800+ ISO.

Does anybody here have experience with this lens? I'm really perplexed by the results.

http://i.imgur.com/GtTJg.jpg[IMG]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/W9ziT.jpg[IMG]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/mO60I.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]
those seem like normal shutter speeds for ISO 100 and apertures that you used.
Try shooting at ISO 50 f22.

on second look, those actually do look a little slow. Was exposure bias set to the right?
Click to expand...
 
MultiCore

MultiCore

Member
mclaren777 said:
I rented a Canon 24-105mm lens last weekend for a family get-together and I was surprised by how slow it was. Here are three shots from throughout the day that show what I mean. I would have expected much faster shutter speeds given that it was really sunny all afternoon. And many of the pictures that were taken in the shade are roughly 1/80s @ 800+ ISO.

Does anybody here have experience with this lens? I'm really perplexed by the results.

http://i.imgur.com/GtTJg.jpg[IMG]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/W9ziT.jpg[IMG]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/2ViUK.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

I have one, but I'm using it on a 5D2.
I don't think I've got a similar complaint about it, but I'll post back when I get home.
That said, I'll also let it to Auto ISO in Av.
Click to expand...
 
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