The pacing of Uncharted 4 is just unfortunate
- Thread starter shockthrill
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Roufianos
Member
I'm still baffled as to why that was the only standout set piece moment in the game. When we saw it at E3 I think we all thought that it was a tease for things to come.
Somehow new hardware made ND less ambitious with their set pieces.
Stallion Dan
Member
Uncharted series is combat heavy, UC4 was just made by people who messed it up.
The problem with Uncharted 4's pacing wasn't that they put a bunch of non-combat sections in, it was because those non-combat sections had literally no challenge whatsoever. Naughty Dog seemed terrified of having mandatory puzzles that are actually difficult or climbing sections that are more than just "press direction and jump." It took until literally the end of the game for a platforming section that was even remotely challenging to appear; and I can count on one hand the puzzles that I didn't just solve right away. The same issue happend with TLoU but at least that had the tone to justify it.
If a game can't fill its downtime with either interesting, yet slower, gameplay, interesting plot progression or both then it should cut those bits out. If there's one thing Druckmann's Naughty Dog needs to learn from film it's the concept of editing.
If a game can't fill its downtime with either interesting, yet slower, gameplay, interesting plot progression or both then it should cut those bits out. If there's one thing Druckmann's Naughty Dog needs to learn from film it's the concept of editing.
Theslammer
Member
It stood out the most like the train sequence in 2 and the plane sequence in 3, but it wasn't the only big set piece. It opens with a boat chase of all things. Then you have the prison break, the collapsing cave, the truck/bike chase everyone loves, the attack on the clock tower, outrunning the exploding mummies, and the "Crash Bandicoot" style chase.
Yeah, but few games get this attention, I think it says a lot for a derivative 3rd person shooter to be argued over, its a beautiful game
True, but considering what the series is known for, U4 definitely could have used more action.
Different magnitudes. Yer taking my quote out of context a bit in that I have many good things to say about 3, and I was responding to someone that was just trashing every aspect of 4. That quote should have had more detail applied, but it's mostly consensus that 3 is lacking heavily in the story. 4 is widely known to have improved the writing and characters along with the graphics to a point that the realism factor and the expectations that come along with that were finally being met.
3 is not all terrible of course, but the brunt of it involves ridiculous writing and paper thin characters. You are right, I should have offered more detail here, and just assigning the word terrible is no better than the over use of hyperbole and the word poor to describe something.
The villain is hardly a villain in 3. She doesn't even appear in that many cutscenes, and is hardly ever considered to have any kind of powerful presence beyond having a couple henchmen. Elena and Drake while having a few cutscenes, just don't have that realistic interplay, nor is it developed enough to matter in too many of the scenes IMO.
The side stories have no depth in this game whatsoever. You go here, you go there, and all of the characters are thin. I find myself caring about no one but Sully, Drake, and Elena in 3. That doesn't mean there are not instances where this game tries, but Naughty Dog recreated the storytelling genre in the TPS with TLOU, and it shows heavily in the fact that the previous three entries are very gamey and amateurish in that the characterization is very thin, even if some of the writing is of good to great quality.
Now U4 is entirely different. Sam and Elena have extended sequences which are more realistic, written with dialogue that resonates throughout multiple characters, involving them in personal conflicts that are more textured and striated with detail. There is a villain that seems more or less naturally vindictive and mean. That isn't to say that 2's villain is terrible, but he is written in a very cartoony way without any depth. Same thing with 1 and 3. There is no depth to any of the side characters.
The villains of Uncharted have all been in some way lacking. When I say that Uncharted 3 has terrible writing, I mostly mean it comes off as gamey and amateurish in too many scenes. This was fully overhauled in 4, and you can tell the writing is a full step up from its origins years ago. People actually have depth! They react to the emotional content of other characters in more finely tuned ways.
Now maybe you don't like certain bits of comedy, realism, et cetera in 4. But there is no denying the step up in characterization in U4. If you can't spot that you are being a dork.
Now this I can get behind. I have no idea at all why Naught Dog is resilient to putting more challenging platforming sections into their game.
Duxxy3
Member
My biggest disappointment is that the game is just unreplayable. I've finished UC1 and UC3 a handful of times. UC2 at least a dozen. I have zero desire to play through UC4 ever again.
It's an anomaly in Naughty Dog's most recent games. Because I've played through The Last of Us almost as much as I played through Uncharted 2. My interest level for TLOU2 is far far higher than the new Uncharted game coming out this month. All I see when I watch new Uncharted footage is all the things I hated about UC4. I'll pick it up anyhow. I hope it's not as bad as UC4 was. Hopefully UC4 was just an anomaly.
It's an anomaly in Naughty Dog's most recent games. Because I've played through The Last of Us almost as much as I played through Uncharted 2. My interest level for TLOU2 is far far higher than the new Uncharted game coming out this month. All I see when I watch new Uncharted footage is all the things I hated about UC4. I'll pick it up anyhow. I hope it's not as bad as UC4 was. Hopefully UC4 was just an anomaly.
Not too much different than TLOU in that regard for me. I rarely replay ND games. And it will be a long time before I go back to TLOU or any other Uncharted unless it is the remasters I have not played yet. Half way through 1 again and I used to have the plat on that for old account.
I really appreciate the pacing the more time passes.
Replaying The Last of Us, I would argue that game almost feels too dense with encounters by comparison, although I might still like everything about The Last of Us' mechanics more -- although that's not a slight to UC4, just a personal preference in playstyle. I do wonder if the present day sections of Left Behind feel a tad surperfluous paired with the sublime mall scenes, although that's just specualtion, I'm yet to replay that dlc.
I do suspect The Lost Legacy will be better recieved by those who had a problem with core UC4's pacing, even if it's just due to a shorter campaign.
Replaying The Last of Us, I would argue that game almost feels too dense with encounters by comparison, although I might still like everything about The Last of Us' mechanics more -- although that's not a slight to UC4, just a personal preference in playstyle. I do wonder if the present day sections of Left Behind feel a tad surperfluous paired with the sublime mall scenes, although that's just specualtion, I'm yet to replay that dlc.
I do suspect The Lost Legacy will be better recieved by those who had a problem with core UC4's pacing, even if it's just due to a shorter campaign.
I was a huge Uncharted fan for the first three games. Uncharted: Drake's Fortune was the game that got me into TPS games because I thought I didn't like shooting but I guess I really did. I was LTTP with Uncharted 4 and was disappointed to hear and then experience how drastically they had toned down the shooting.
I wanted to finish it still to see how it ended but... I don't think I can. It's just too boring. I was playing in smaller and smaller sessions and then not at all. But I see a lot of people like the new style so I recognise that the series just isn't for me anymore. Three great games is a pretty good run so I'm satisfied and there are so so many other games out there to play.
"Pacing" is a weird way to describe the issue though because I think it's more just the gameplay is deficient. Seems to mainly consist of walking around and on-the-rails platforming broken up by gentle QTEs. Doesn't seem very compelling to me.
I wanted to finish it still to see how it ended but... I don't think I can. It's just too boring. I was playing in smaller and smaller sessions and then not at all. But I see a lot of people like the new style so I recognise that the series just isn't for me anymore. Three great games is a pretty good run so I'm satisfied and there are so so many other games out there to play.
"Pacing" is a weird way to describe the issue though because I think it's more just the gameplay is deficient. Seems to mainly consist of walking around and on-the-rails platforming broken up by gentle QTEs. Doesn't seem very compelling to me.
100%
On replays you'll be surprised by how much combat there is. I certainly was.
After my first playthrough I was like "man there's so little combat, FFS". Then I played through it a couple of months later and, it especially hit me in Scotland, I was like "... I'm literally in a fight every 15 minutes or so, bar a couple of rare stretches of 30-50 mins of adventuring."
How far are you? The back half is pretty dense with action.
Sygma
Member
I thought UC 4 had an awesome pacing that was all about Nate's weariness of the meaning of this adventure. But, it arguably had the worse TPS mechanics in the whole series. Why did they even add suppression I'll never know.
That being said, my favorite is the 3rd so far, hopefully lost legacy will be better
That being said, my favorite is the 3rd so far, hopefully lost legacy will be better
Script of the Bridge
Banned
ayy gottem
Fine, since it's been quoted to hell at this point I'll further clarify my initial statement.
It's never been a franchise about pure combat like Gears or Vanquish. If anything the combat has been in place to serve the narrative, as opposed to being divorced from it, which is what the orginal poster sounded like he wanted.
Once again man, I don't know why you have ever made this a point of focus. The point of the scene with Marlow was to reveal that he was not a Drake, not to reveal who he actually was because that element never fucking mattered. There were no cliffhangers or threads left untangled, nothing else was needed to flush out his backstory other than to provide some insight to his psychology.
Simply put, it was never about who he was, it was about who he was not.
Ibid
I enjoyed the pacing of the prison, though I'll agree it went on too long.
Ibid
I strongly agree
Ibid
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Some googling reveals I am at chapter 8 which seems to be coming up on halfway. Am I at least close to the Jeep/boat set piece?
TheRedSnifit
Member
You've never heard anybody criticize a game's pacing before? Huh.
MiamiWesker
Member
What, pacing is one of the most talked about and important parts of any single player game. Are you new to gaf?
Yeah the pacing in U4 is horrendous. It's a shame cause I do feel that outside MGSV this game has the best TPS combat to date. The combat sections are thrilling and allow for more freedom than past uncharted games. so why have so little of it, such a dumb decision.
Well, hype and a honeymoon period is a thing, especially with a game that has visuals as its primary selling point.
And the game is pretty poorly paced. It felt like they took 9 hours worth of game and stretched it into a 14 hour one. A lot of the experience is nothing of value, imo.
funkystudent
Member
TLOU had the exact same pacing issues.
I think Druckmann just kinda sucks as a director
Amazing writer tho
I think Druckmann just kinda sucks as a director
Amazing writer tho
Human Trashcan
Banned
Some of the climbing parts definitely overstay their welcome but I'm not a fan of the extended gunfights later on in the game either. The tunnels are probably my least favorite part of the game, the last 2 hours or so kind of dragged. For the most parts I think the first few hours are easily the best part of the game, up until the Scotland bit.
grandwizard
Member
The pacing is some of the worst I've ever seen from a AAA game. The amount of walk and talk (or the equally boring climb and talk) almost had me drop this game like 12 times over the course of it.
It's really sad because I loved UC2 and found it's pacing near perfect. I think modern Druckmann-led Naughty Dog just isn't for me anymore, as they seem to be more focused on telling a story than making an entertaining video game.
It's really sad because I loved UC2 and found it's pacing near perfect. I think modern Druckmann-led Naughty Dog just isn't for me anymore, as they seem to be more focused on telling a story than making an entertaining video game.
I don't know about that. It felt like TLOU had the perfect rhythm of peaks and valleys. It's a long game, and somewhat draining, but I couldn't point to a section of the game that I'd call boring, mostly due to the 'minigame' of resource scavenging.
I don't see it as consistent climbing at all. Like I've mentioned fair amount of swimming as well😉
The down time allowed for more conversation, and therefore characterization between the cast. Not to mention there were more collectibles and they were actually contextualized this time around to the point of conversations surrounding their discovery.
I do agree with the notion that there could have been more puzzles, particularly coming off of UC3 which had the best puzzles in the series.
I've always felt UC4's greatest offense had to deal with its set piece. There wasn't a signature sequence which really blew me away like in UC2 and certainly UC3.
Sure, there were some great moments, sure, but nothing as bombastic as the previous installments.
The down time allowed for more conversation, and therefore characterization between the cast. Not to mention there were more collectibles and they were actually contextualized this time around to the point of conversations surrounding their discovery.
I do agree with the notion that there could have been more puzzles, particularly coming off of UC3 which had the best puzzles in the series.
I've always felt UC4's greatest offense had to deal with its set piece. There wasn't a signature sequence which really blew me away like in UC2 and certainly UC3.
Sure, there were some great moments, sure, but nothing as bombastic as the previous installments.
I really disagree. The Last of Us made downtime meaningful. You needed those resources, you'd find actually interesting side stories, the optional dialogue was all better. The game's systems lended themselves much better to the amount of exploraiton it had, because your exploring would actively impact your performance in combat.
In Uncharted 4, they put you in a huge level, and you can explore it at will, in order to find nothing except a few jokes when you knock some rocks or whatever. And the game constantly thinking you're a complete moron and just don't know the way, instead of assuming you're exploring and leaving you alone (this is also a problem in The Last of Us, though).
The pacing issues don't come from simply not having enough combat, they come from the game not having any form of meaningful interaction and agency aside from combat, and then wanting to have so many lenghty non-combat segments. I think The Last Guardian was able to handle that perfeclty by flipping things around. You don't really have a combat system, so in the calm sections of exploration and puzzles, you have all of your controls designed to deal with that, and when it's action time, it's just a thrilling setpiece that will get you hooked even without an actual combat system aside from telling Trico to attack.
I just really think Uncharted 4 is a bad game. The combat system is brilliant, but even combat is hurt by some of the decisions, like the lack of those mini-setpiece encounters, there are way too few of them, you'll mostly find obvious arenas and fight a bunch of dudes. The lack of a supernatural element also really hurt enemy variety. In Uncharted 2 you had the yeti and the blue dudes, and turns out they're the same thing and not really all that supernatural, but as far as combat is concerned, this already means two different enemy types that you have to deal with differently. The Last of Us also had runners, stalkers, clickers and bloaters, as well as the regular human enemies. Then there's the story, the reason why a lot of people are able to look past these issues, and, frankly, I thought it was awful. A continuation of the mistake they made with 3, but going even deeper on that. What they did with Nate's origin with that whole Left Behind chapter was so bad, Jesus.
3's puzzles were so much fun!
About setpieces in 4, I actually didn't mind the amount of the big flashy ones. I loved them. Except for the Nadine fights which were more like unskippable cutscenes than anything, but whatever.
I also enjoyed the more intimate, less explosive setpieces, like the ones with the Jeep falling and stuff like that, it made the little moments more interesting.
The setpieces I really miss are the ones I mentioned above, the ones integrated in combat, like when you're sliding down your way to the plane and shooting dudes at the same time, we needed more of that. Uncharted 2's "hanging from the post" combat setpiece is one of the most memorable examples in the series.
Nah, now y'all are just flinging shit to see what sticks.
Duxxy3
Member
I thought the downtime was needed. It moved the story. Provided time to recoup your resources. Also gave you a small break for the hellish scenario's that the characters were involved in. I can't say the same as Uncharted because Nate deliberately puts himself in this circumstances.
Finished this game on sunday for the first time. As a huge Uncharted fan I came away disappointed.
I get that people say the pacing is "bad" but I don't think it is. It's just different. A lot slower which makes everything more personal and believable to me. That said, I don't think the slower pace fits this franchise that well.
I found myself clamouring for another action sequence every time one stopped. But it just didn't happen. In U2 for example, when you hit the long, drawn out sequence in the ice caves with Tenzin, it's a welcome change of pace. The shit had been hitting the fan since chapter 5.
In U4, I feel, the action sequences are over way too soon and you're back climbing shit and exploring attics/areas. I just wanted more of it. They looked stunning en were, for the most part, original. Thanks to the new mechanics the shit you can pull off made me feel like a total reckless badass. Just when you're in that great Uncharted combat flow, it all just comes to a sudden stop. The slower parts feel less like a breather and were sometimes an unwelcome change to me.
TLDR; I don't think the pacing is bad, it's just different and not every Uncharted fan can appreciate it.
I get that people say the pacing is "bad" but I don't think it is. It's just different. A lot slower which makes everything more personal and believable to me. That said, I don't think the slower pace fits this franchise that well.
I found myself clamouring for another action sequence every time one stopped. But it just didn't happen. In U2 for example, when you hit the long, drawn out sequence in the ice caves with Tenzin, it's a welcome change of pace. The shit had been hitting the fan since chapter 5.
In U4, I feel, the action sequences are over way too soon and you're back climbing shit and exploring attics/areas. I just wanted more of it. They looked stunning en were, for the most part, original. Thanks to the new mechanics the shit you can pull off made me feel like a total reckless badass. Just when you're in that great Uncharted combat flow, it all just comes to a sudden stop. The slower parts feel less like a breather and were sometimes an unwelcome change to me.
TLDR; I don't think the pacing is bad, it's just different and not every Uncharted fan can appreciate it.
Jeep chase is by far the most impressive set piece in the series and I would say in gaming in general. Too bad there weren't many other set pieces on this level in the game, ND basically ruined the highlight of the game with their trailers.
ronaldthump
Member
yeah 4 had huge pacing issues. The endless climb and young nate bits were :/
TLOU was flawless.
TLOU was flawless.
Thats why the multiplayer is so good. In multiplayer you use the mechanics they created but that were forgotten during single player campaign.
It was great, but still a refinement of what has been seen in the series before.
Diprosalic
Banned
uncharted 4 was one of the most boring games i've ever played.
i literally started to play it with one hand since all you had to do is push up and x for 80% of the game.
would it be that hard to bring some excitement to climbing? the whole game feels like ND wanted to tell a story and they couldn't be bothered to make the actual game inbetween.
i literally started to play it with one hand since all you had to do is push up and x for 80% of the game.
would it be that hard to bring some excitement to climbing? the whole game feels like ND wanted to tell a story and they couldn't be bothered to make the actual game inbetween.
I didn't mind the pacing the first run around because the story and characters were captivating enough to balance it out for me. Both Uncharted 4 and The Last of Us are real bummers on the second run though where it ends up feeling like you're spending a lot of time skipping cutscenes and waiting for the game to let you go so you can get on with it. This was a problem with Uncharted 2 as well (haven't replayed UC3 yet so I can't say) but it wasn't as bad as the recent stuff.
Soulblighter31
Banned
Thats one of the most important qualities in a game. The way the game's parts are stiched together and how the adventure unfolds. Are you new to games ?
Dwight Schrute
Member
2>3>4>1
ronaldthump
Member
they spent their effort making that sort of boring but somewhat cool madgascar section. When its that open and the main gameplay loop is getting out of the car to loop a bit of rope, its not great.
adding the car bits took away development time on the setpieces and I dont think its been a good tradeoff.
* also played chloe uncharted a bit, and the car bit is back and I felt how I felt then with it. They're trying to add more things to do in this "open world" but it still felt pointless to me. They should drop it from future games.
Yeah you have the prison escape section right in the beginning and it's brilliant. The gun fight is kicking off, the audio is amazing, guns and grenade explosions just filling the room. Graphically it just looked sublime. There I was thinking: 'here we go! This is Uncharted!'. But it was all over in the blink of an eye and that was it for a really long time.
Dangansona
Member
I love climbing in Uncharted 4. One of my favorite levels was the snowy mountain one.
ronaldthump
Member
Hmm, 2>4>3>1 I'd say that only because 4 had some seriously high moments that shit on 3s
3 needed an extended final act. It just ends. If 3 had a longer end game, it'd be better than 4. That ship graveyard + ship opera room assault were something else.
Dangansona
Member
I appreciate this more nuanced comment rather than just calling everything bad.
And just to provide an order that is different from what I'm seeing here (and hopefully a counterpoint to "the only good Uncharted is 2") for me it's 3>4>2>1.
