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[Joe Shlabotnik]

...and cropped (something I can do with Photobucket) for infinite requotability.

Excellent.

Aaaand saved. Good work everyone, take five.

 

[Furret]

I don't think there's anything, anyone can do to make the prequels watchable.

QFT.

Although I do find it odd how much Lord of the Rings is mentioned in this thread, given that almost all the characters fail the test at the end of the first part of that 70 minute prequel review everyone's going on about.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

QFT.

Although I do find it odd how much Lord of the Rings is mentioned in this thread, given that almost all the characters fail the test at the end of the first part of that 70 minute prequel review everyone's going on about.

LOTR is a far more contiguous story, divided almost entirely by running time (or pages in the novel). The prequels--especially the first one--are supposed to be more self-contained. Regardless, only Anakin has a measurable dramatic arc even over the course of all three movies.

 

[oatmeal]

Holy fuck at this thread...

The ANH edit is incredibly ambitious. It's pointless, and fruitless, but my GOD, it's impressive. I'd like to see video of some of those changes...

 

[elrechazado]

QFT.

Although I do find it odd how much Lord of the Rings is mentioned in this thread, given that almost all the characters fail the test at the end of the first part of that 70 minute prequel review everyone's going on about.

Really? I could easily describe many of the lotr characters and their motivations. Sam, gollum, frodo, gandalf, aragorn, boromir, etc.

 

[Walshicus]

Really? I could easily describe many of the lotr characters and their motivations. Sam, gollum, frodo, gandalf, aragorn, boromir, etc.

The only characters in the LotR movies who might fail that would be Legolas and to a lesser extent Gimli.

 

[bistromathics]

Last I heard MAGNOLIAFAN was doing edits of the original trilogy. Which is horrifying. His edits of Episodes I and II are awful.

is that jay and silent bob joke or is that a real internet person spinoff? i've been thinking of the 'greedo shot first' line from some kevin smith movie ever since i came into the thread :lol

 

[sankt-Antonio]

well my amp has knobs to fuck around with mids, trebbel and bass, if i can bend over music to my tastes - why not let people witch the knowledge do the same to films?

this would be very awsome if he would have left out the fan wank stuff, and really just improved the iq and minor stuff.

(im talking about episode IV)

 

[Furret]

Really? I could easily describe many of the lotr characters and their motivations. Sam, gollum, frodo, gandalf, aragorn, boromir, etc.

The character question forbids any mention of what their motivations or roles are, which was my point.

As characters they're entirely one note.

This isn't a criticism of LOTR (well, maybe it is of the films but not the book) but an example of how comparing it to original Star Wars is silly, since they have a very different appeal.

 

[Darklord]

*edit* Added one shot I was talking about.

I still could never understand how they could fuck up Lukes lightsaber colour. It boggles my mind.

 

[mrkgoo]

I still could never understand how they could fuck up Lukes lightsaber colour. It boggles my mind.

This is true. As much as some of the changes never bothered me, such as the CGI in A new Hope, Greedo shooting first, Hayden in RotJ, changing up the songs on RotJ and so on, it truly boggled my mind that they messed up the light sabre for an entire sequence.

Out of all the changes that one bugged me the most (followed by Luke's scream after letting go and falling after facing vader).

 

[Whimsical Phil]

I still could never understand how they could fuck up Lukes lightsaber colour. It boggles my mind.

Wait...shouldn't Luke's lightsaber be blue in A New Hope?

At the beginning of the movie, Obi Wan gives Anakin's old lightsaber to Luke, right? At the end of Revenge of the Sith, we see Obi Wan pick up Anakin's blue-bladed saber after their duel.

I always figured that Luke's green-bladed saber in Return of the Jedi was a completely new saber that he had build himself as part of his Jedi training. He's no longer using his father's weapon at this point.

Or am I missing something?

Edit: Wait...I'm dumb. I was looking at the pictures backwards. I thought that the fan edits made the blade green, not Lucasfilm. Bad, Lucasfilm!

 

[FleckSplat]

:lol :lol

 

[Medalion]

It amazes me how people are incapable of accepting a film as it was made by the director, warts and all. Some of the edits reach new heights of banality.

Because as soon as George submitted the first version of the movie to the public, it was no longer his to control and mess with... it was the Fan's turn next duh.

 

[Oozer3993]

This is true. As much as some of the changes never bothered me, such as the CGI in A new Hope, Greedo shooting first, Hayden in RotJ, changing up the songs on RotJ and so on, it truly boggled my mind that they messed up the light sabre for an entire sequence.

Out of all the changes that one bugged me the most (followed by Luke's scream after letting go and falling after facing vader).

This. I really didn't get all that worked up about most changes, but the lightsaber's stuck out. It seems like such a simple thing, yet they're completely screwed up. And they were fine before, so they actually went in and made them worse.

 

[elrechazado]

The character question forbids any mention of what their motivations or roles are, which was my point.

As characters they're entirely one note.

This isn't a criticism of LOTR (well, maybe it is of the films but not the book) but an example of how comparing it to original Star Wars is silly, since they have a very different appeal.

I don't think you watched the video. Describing their motivations was exactly what he did require his friends to do. What they couldn't do was describe their name, title, costume, or what they look like. I could easily do that with the characters I mentioned.

 

[elrechazado]

The only characters in the LotR movies who might fail that would be Legolas and to a lesser extent Gimli.

I agree, the elves are quite a bit like the jedi in the movies, these stoic boring uninteresting characters, but most characters had motivation and story arc and real character. Eowyn, faramir, boromir, denethor, theoden, I could go on and on. Whereas I'd be hard pressed to mention one in the prequels of SW that had any kind of good character.

 

[Blackace]

I've always also wondered why everyone cares about this.

Because he did shoot first, because he was a badass smuggler. Then Lucas pussed up and edited it himself

 

[Blackace]

:lol

 

[Epcott]

I can get edits that aim to correct shoddy visual effects (like lasers and glares that are mysteriously missing or applied to the wrong spots) or inconsistencies in setting (like two scenes one right after the other but evidently shot in completely different locations or different times of the day), but adding stuff that wasn't supposed to be there for fanwank (like the Alderaan explosion, or flipping back stuff that was flipped for a reason, or making Greedo smolder with generic rage) shows little respect for the source material.

I think any change by a fan shows little respect for source material. Even if the movie completely sucks, even if it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. This movie is, in a way, someones artwork (or art form), so (this might be stretching it) to me, it's like taking someones painting and painting over it... all because you don't like it. It's like someone disliking Monna Lisa's boring smile, then photoshoping a cheesy grin on it to make the smile more pronounced.

Sure, I'd love a Phantom Menace without Jar Jar, but the original vision had him/it/whatever in it.

Now let's say you (not Jocchan but any average Joe poster) created a movie, had it harshly criticized, and then re-edited by someone else? Egads, you'd probably be pissed. Being critiqued is one thing, having someone put their hands in your work and changing things is another.

And when you edit a movie in such a way, the question must be asked, do you work in cinema, or are you yourself a producer? If so, why not make your own movie, instead of using time and resources to tweak someone else's work?

:lol I don't mean to drag this out, I was curious to see TPM without Jar Jar, or an AOTC with a less whiny Aniken, but it also feels so wrong.

 

[timmy]

If someone did a fan edit composed entirely of shit like this, I'd watch.

 

[demon]

I think any change by a fan shows little respect for source material. Even if the movie completely sucks, even if it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. This movie is, in a way, someones artwork (or art form), so (this might be stretching it) to me, it's like taking someones painting and painting over it... all because you don't like it. It's like someone disliking Monna Lisa's boring smile, then photoshoping a cheesy grin on it to make the smile more pronounced.

Sure, I'd love a Phantom Menace without Jar Jar, but the original vision had him/it/whatever in it.

Now let's say you (not Jocchan but any average Joe poster) created a movie, had it harshly criticized, and then re-edited by someone else? Egads, you'd probably be pissed. Being critiqued is one thing, having someone put their hands in your work and changing things is another.

And when you edit a movie in such a way, the question must be asked, do you work in cinema, or are you yourself a producer? If so, why not make your own movie, instead of using time and resources to tweak someone else's work?

:lol I don't mean to drag this out, I was curious to see TPM without Jar Jar, or an AOTC with a less whiny Aniken, but it also feels so wrong.

You can't use the "you're changing the director's artwork" because directors' movies get edited all the time. Movie making is a collaborative process. Maybe these fan edits aren't done by professionals or done with official/legal consent of those making the movie, but it's still nothing new.....someone taking a director's work and making it (arguably) better in through editing. And respect be damned......if that pile of shit TPM is actually better with the fan edit, maybe it's worth it.

 

[BattleMonkey]

The lightsaber effects as a whole in ep.4 were pretty bad, and even after to revisits in special editions and dvd release, they never did fix the effects. They always looked wobbly and were not really touched up, all they did was add more glow to the sabers.

 

[Esperado]

I think any change by a fan shows little respect for source material. Even if the movie completely sucks, even if it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. This movie is, in a way, someones artwork (or art form), so (this might be stretching it) to me, it's like taking someones painting and painting over it... all because you don't like it. It's like someone disliking Monna Lisa's boring smile, then photoshoping a cheesy grin on it to make the smile more pronounced.

Sure, I'd love a Phantom Menace without Jar Jar, but the original vision had him/it/whatever in it.

Now let's say you (not Jocchan but any average Joe poster) created a movie, had it harshly criticized, and then re-edited by someone else? Egads, you'd probably be pissed. Being critiqued is one thing, having someone put their hands in your work and changing things is another.

And when you edit a movie in such a way, the question must be asked, do you work in cinema, or are you yourself a producer? If so, why not make your own movie, instead of using time and resources to tweak someone else's work?

:lol I don't mean to drag this out, I was curious to see TPM without Jar Jar, or an AOTC with a less whiny Aniken, but it also feels so wrong.

Who gives a shit if the movie is edited. Making an edited version of a movie in no way or form takes anything away from the original (no pun intended). It's not like everyone who buys the movie from now on is getting some version that was edited by some random internet fan.

 

[jaxword]

For all the people against edits, so are you boycotting the ROTJ edits Lucas made, such as inserting Hayden Christensen in?

 

[Thai]

:lol :lol

oookay...come on, now

 

[Marty Chinn]

oookay...come on, now

To be fair, seeing that in motion, the original is pretty bad to the point that it looks like he's not seriously firing so I can understand wanting to try to fix that.

 

[tino]

I guess it all comes down to where we draw the line where "useful" ends and "unnecessary" begins. Up to a point I can enjoy a lot of the quirks of the film because they simply represent the time in which the film was made. I think it might be said that they add a lot of physicality to the film.



As much as I agree that some of the elements that Lucas may have made to the original films are questionable, I'd always side with him as an authority because it is, after all, his film.

Our frame of reference might be the 1977 versions, but how can we tell that that was the real "source" material that Lucas has always wanted? Is the 2004 version not the source material?

Ultimately, I think it somewhat arrogant for fans to claim that they know what Lucas' vision should be, and that they are the ones who are truly able to reclaim the brilliance of Star Wars.

I don't agree with this kind of thinking. I no longer recognize the last two Dune books (Heretics, Chapterhouse) as the official canon. I refuse to believe Frank Herbert wrote something so stupid. Accepting them will tarnish my image of the Dune-universe. Why should I stop myself of embracing my fandom because Frank Herbert decided to money grab?

People change, usually they are at their prime at their 30s and 40s. That's why I give directors easy pass on their last movies. Usually their last movies are sub-standard.

 

[Nizz]

The lightsaber effects as a whole in ep.4 were pretty bad, and even after to revisits in special editions and dvd release, they never did fix the effects. They always looked wobbly and were not really touched up, all they did was add more glow to the sabers.

I don't know if it was time constraints or what, but sometimes it confused me how so much got improved like a busier Mos Eisly (if felt more like a bustling space port in the special edition) cgi shots of the Millenium Falcon, X-Wings, TIE Fighters, etc. But some stuff felt completely untouched.

Like the lightsabers many have mentioned, even in that shot from the revisited dvd touch up I posted. The saber was green! How could that make its way through quality control or anyone watching over the remastering process?

Those links where they show little continuity fixes and corrections to some effects are things I would love to see taken care of in the eventual release of these movies on Blu-Ray. I'm fine with the changes (mostly) Lucas has made to the movies.

But I hope more fixes come with the HD versions of these movies. Blu-ray can be unforgiving with its sharpness and little things like these will stick out more.

Not that I would deny myself getting the movies anyway. As much as I thought the prequels didn't exactly live up to what I had imagined, I'm still a Star Wars fan at heart.

 

[NotWii]

Out of all the changes that one bugged me the most (followed by Luke's scream after letting go and falling after facing vader).

But they got rid of that scream for the 2004 release, that was the one good thing they did

 

[Zabka]

Some nice changes, fixing up some wonky effects. I thought the animation added to the practical puppets/mask was particularly well done.

Some of the additions to the dog fight were obvious and unnecessary though. It's one thing to fix up a lightsaber, but once they started fucking with the editing (or replacing shots completely) they were working beyond their skills.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Some nice changes, fixing up some wonky effects. I thought the animation added to the practical puppets/mask was particularly well done.

Some of the additions to the dog fight were obvious and unnecessary though. It's one thing to fix up a lightsaber, but once they started fucking with the editing (or replacing shots completely) they were working beyond their skills.

I didn't mind the redoing of the death star battle in Ep4 because really, it was pretty bad and some of the worst effects in the series. Parts were fine but it did have lot of corny effects. I was fine with them redoing.

What I didn't like of the special editions was adding in stupid shit like the Jedi rock in Jabbas palace. When did we need a corny musical number? wtf? Enhancing the effects are fine.

Of course changing vaders ghost at end of rotj was also awful.

 

[Zabka]

I'm not talking about the DVD Special Edition changes. I'm talking about the fan edit with new CG shots.

 

[Voltron64]

 

[I should be doing hw]

I didn't mind the redoing of the death star battle in Ep4 because really, it was pretty bad and some of the worst effects in the series. Parts were fine but it did have lot of corny effects. I was fine with them redoing.

What I didn't like of the special editions was adding in stupid shit like the Jedi rock in Jabbas palace. When did we need a corny musical number? wtf? Enhancing the effects are fine.

Of course changing vaders ghost at end of rotj was also awful.

Wah? I don't remember this...

 

[Wark]

http://i48.tinypic.com/10rmlqu.jpg

:lol

What I didn't like of the special editions was adding in stupid shit like the Jedi rock in Jabbas palace. When did we need a corny musical number? wtf? Enhancing the effects are fine.

I really really fucking hate that song. :lol

 

[Medalion]

Greedo furrow brow needs avatar size

 

[Zen]

I found that the Phantom Edit actually falls apart for the finale when it comes to interspersing the battles going on. Not that said sequence is easy to edit, mind you.

This and the 70 minute SW review have urged me to try my own edit. Go go project that will never be completed! That and Episode II will probably be both my attempts. I'm looking forward to trying out EPII, more so due to having only seen it once and never seen any re edits.

 

[GillianSeed79]

Wah? I don't remember this...

He's talking about the shitty CGI number lucas added in 2004 with alien with the big lips that was horrible. I believe it's right before the twilek gets dropped in the rancor pit. Originally there was that blue elephant puppet. It was like replacing the cantina theme with a Jamaraqui song.

 

[Wark]

He's talking about the shitty CGI number lucas added in 2004 with alien with the big lips that was horrible. I believe it's right before the twilek gets dropped in the rancor pit. Originally there was that blue elephant puppet. It was like replacing the cantina theme with a Jamaraqui song.

I think that this song, out of any of the newly added special edition scenes, is the one that stuck out the most to me. It actually makes me embarassed to watch it. :lol

 

[Medalion]

I would love to see Episode III recut... some scenes were ruined with being held too long on awkward scenes with over the top acting from both the Emperor and Anakin, especially during the christening scene.

 

[Tobor]

You can't recut I-III enough to make them watchable. It's just not possible. If the fans really want to fix this they need to work on some Total Recall tech so I can wipe the memories from my mind.

 

[Oozer3993]

I found that the Phantom Edit actually falls apart for the finale when it comes to interspersing the battles going on. Not that said sequence is easy to edit, mind you.

This and the 70 minute SW review have urged me to try my own edit. Go go project that will never be completed! That and Episode II will probably be both my attempts. I'm looking forward to trying out EPII, more so due to having only seen it once and never seen any re edits.

I was working on my own re-edit of Episode I a couple years ago. Then the hard drive it was on crashed and I just gave up.

 

[Marty Chinn]

I'm claiming the Greedo avatar =)

 

[Medalion]

I'm claiming the Greedo avatar =)

Dern you.

 

[I should be doing hw]

He's talking about the shitty CGI number lucas added in 2004 with alien with the big lips that was horrible. I believe it's right before the twilek gets dropped in the rancor pit. Originally there was that blue elephant puppet. It was like replacing the cantina theme with a Jamaraqui song.

Oohhh that, fuck I remember both now. Gah, I want to go back and watch the original trilogy again but not the shitty special edition. Is this possible?

Now all we need is a fan-edit of this fan-edit, removing all the obnoxious bullshit this guy has added. I find that "New Officer" in that image more hilarious than adding himself and Lucas though. Why the fuck is that even relevant to a sane human being, what purpose does that new officer serve? I can get the rest of the crap he added was for fan wank and ego purposes, but I cannot fathom the inclusion of this "New Officer".

 

[jaxword]

I'm not talking about the DVD Special Edition changes. I'm talking about the fan edit with new CG shots.

Just to be clear, you're cool with Lucas' changes, like random fat alien singing numbers, or Hayden Christensen appearing at the end?

 

[BattleMonkey]

Oohhh that, fuck I remember both now. Gah, I want to go back and watch the original trilogy again but not the shitty special edition. Is this possible?

Actually yes, the movies on dvd did get a rerelease of the original uncut-non special editions at one point. You can still buy them as currently the dvd's come with two discs, one disc with the new special editions from 2004, and the extra disc has the untouched version of the film.

 

[kame-sennin]

you both need to read the other star wars thread and watch that review on why lightsaber duels were better in the original movies.

Shit looking cool is why these movies sucked on all 4 cylinders.

Ironically, I think you missed the Phantom Menace reviewer's point about the prequel duels missing the point. He wasn't trying to say that the lightsaber duel should look bad. He was simply saying that if they had no emotional content and were choreographed in a clinical fashion, that they would fail. The fight between Neo and Agent Smith at the end of the first Matrix looked amazing, but it was chock full of emotional content. It does everything that reviewer wants while still looking cool. Reducing the reviewer's argument to the point that fights should not look good is... reductionist. And silly.

 

[Zabka]

Just to be clear, you're cool with Lucas' changes, like random fat alien singing numbers, or Hayden Christensen appearing at the end?

Nope

This is true. As much as some of the changes never bothered me, such as the CGI in A new Hope, Greedo shooting first, Hayden in RotJ, changing up the songs on RotJ and so on, it truly boggled my mind that they messed up the light sabre for an entire sequence.

I don't think they even watched ROTJ.

I just remembered reading about a similar restoration a while back called the Legacy Edition. Here's an editorial on the website about the DVD:

Anyway, one of the things they specialize in is film restoration. They'd done a lot of Disney's restoration work, and it came time to do a new set of projects for them. But Lowry was interested in the business as well. So apparently, Disney sits Lowry and Pixel Magic down at the table and has them fight it out for a bit, since each of them has different philosophies: Pixel Magic believes in doing the restoration by hand, with people, frame at a time, and Lowry was advocating his automated algorithm approach. So Disney gives them each the chance to do a scene using their respective methods, for comparison.

Now the word is that Lowry's process was much faster, and had a hell of a sharpening algorithm, but it also did things like eat all the glints out of people's eyes and chew up highlights thinking it was noise.

Certainly the total obliteration of things like the laser bolt glows in the opening shot of Star Wars seem to indicate that this cleanup process can be as destructive as it is useful, and I have a suspicion that the new CG starfields in the opening shots are casualties of the process as well.