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[chromatic9]

You don't say! :O

Leavers didn't care about facts, they won't start caring now. Now the narrative will shift to "CONTROL!" and "FREEDOM!".

The leave campaign was about taking back control and curbing immigration. Not sure why people are trying to spin otherwise.

Even when you watch the videos of voters on why they voted leave, they cite curbing immigration and taking back control. It was about the amount of immigration for many, it was in the news daily for months and maybe years about lowering immigration targets and how in recent years things have escalated. Letting people in gradually is how it was done and I heard people like Boris mention numerous times they're not trying close the gates. It's disingenuous to suggest there's some big backtrack the day after.

Not that I'm for leave. I vote remain.

What I'm surprised at is how there weren't a 55% or more majority needed before we leave the EU. I'd call the current situation undecided and we need to take stock of what has happened. People are now more engaged than ever. I think we need to have a revote in a year or two. Europeans might not like that but you have accept half the country want to stay as well and really how many other EU countries if they had a referendum would see a similar close call, I think a few would so please stop with this holier than though attitude. This vote result shows a nation is undecided to me and more work needs to be done to find an answer.

Also while Scotland voted to remain, it was a poor turnout, I'd love to see what more Scottish people thought, is it more remain or is it more split?

Young people blaming the old need to look at your fellow young people, the turn out was very poor.

Both sides have been really shoddy. The remain side has been more worried about house prices falling, the stock market having a wobble and not upsetting the apple cart. All bias short sighted reasons, same as leavers.

 

[jellies_two]

lol, subjugation.

Do what your people voted for is the new subjugation.

It's an internal advisory referendum, eu is in no legal position to do anything, least of all demand to "do what your people voted for" until the uk invokes 50. They can posture and threaten for show but ultimately it's like diplomacy and would be worked out, out of sight.

 

[darkwing]

That would mean utter chaos.

but technically there is no deadline, who draws up these laws anyways lol

 

[PdotMichael]

It's an internal advisory referendum, eu is in no legal position to do anything, least of all demand to "do what your people voted for" until the uk invokes 50. They can posture and threaten for show but ultimately it's like diplomacy and would be worked out, out of sight.

And how is that related to subjugation?

 

[theaface]

Jewish voting so strongly in favour of leaving is surprising.

I thought the same. I'm Jewish, staunchly pro Remain and so too was every single Jewish person I know. Really disappointing.

 

[Rolodzeo]

nothing really, there is no deadline to invoke article 50, UK can invoke it in 5 years if they want lol

Spanish newspaper El País says there are sources claiming that the EU could fix a date for a expulsion of the UK.

 

[Alx]

It's an internal advisory referendum, eu is in no legal position to do anything, least of all demand to "do what your people voted for" until the uk invokes 50. They can posture and threaten for show but ultimately it's like diplomacy and would be worked out, out of sight.

But diplomacy is nothing else but making demands and giving concessions.

 

[Maximus P]

Corbyn is still running.

 

[PJV3]

It sounds more likely Scotland are staying. Going from 'highly likely' to 'it's an option'.

It's more about gauging support, they will be spending the next few weeks seeing what the mood is.

I don't see Scotland hitching their wagon to Faragian England much longer.

 

[Krejlooc]

Is a second referendum realistically possible?

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

It sounds more likely Scotland are staying. Going from 'highly likely' to 'it's an option'.

Still the same level of likelihood. Except now she's given details about how she is speaking with EU reps. She is also under pressure by her party and much of the country to start a ref.

 

[oti]

but technically there is no deadline, who draws up these laws anyways lol

Decades old contracts. There will be no negotiations before Article 50 is invoked. Only the UK can invoke Article 50. It's a standoff.

 

[darkwing]

Spanish newspaper El País says there are sources claiming that the EU could fix a date for a expulsion of the UK.

lol the UK can block that, since it is still part of the EU, the referendum was an internal matter

 

[kmag]

What I'd do if I where the Eu is take the uks dosh for the next period but not distribute funding to the uk due to the 'uncertainty'

 

[RedSparrows]

England has traditionally been an isolationist sea power. Very inward looking. Lots of historical reasons for this, stemming from the reformation to the industrial revolution to the battle of britain and hundreds of other events in time.

Scotland is not an isolationist country. Scotland has always been an outward looking country. With things like the Auld Alliance, Scotland has also had strong links to European countries such as France.

Now a lot of these reasons go back hundreds of years. I also suspect that in Scotland there was much less constant badgering of the EU in the press.

England also ruled half of France. Bit more to it than Scotland ever different. British Empire was both Eng and Scot, maritime global aspiration + intervention in continent at key times.

 

[Darkstorne]

Sturgeon can bang on all she wants without authorisation from Westminster an independence referendum holds no legal weight.

We need unity more than ever just now. This just causes greater divisions

A second referendum was promised to be allowed if situations drastically changed, with the UK voting to leave the EU against Scotland's will specifically being given as an example. So essentially:

 

[jellies_two]

Occupy and the London youth riots that followed were far far far far less destructive than this.

This is a riot that will be felt 40 years from now.

I lived in Catford when the riots were happening. The whole thing resolved itself in a week.

Riots are unpredictable and nobody sane would choose them over a referendum. If you prefer that what you are saying is martial law is necessary to crush dissent rather than this option (a vote). Or you are saying a vote is only worth having if it's a forgone conclusion and just a sop.

 

[Sumio Mondo]

The SNP are as pro-independence as you get. They will move on this. Nicola doesn't want to have to resign like Salmond though, so it will be coy for now.

Probably trying to negotiate with the EU behind doors and make sure we will retain membership, or have a good possibility to. The Better Together campaign is going to go full ham spreading fear we won't get into the EU.

Why can't the UK get a leader like her? It kinda sucks she's just SNP and will never be PM. She's a great leader for Scotland.

 

[Burai]

"The Leave campaign fucked you over and just about every promise was a lie. Deal with it! Oh, and there's no plan. Never was."

This is getting so farcically bad that I'm getting even more worried that the EU will not learn its lesson. They'll just point and laugh at the incompetence on display, and things continue rolling slowly towards a wider EU failure.

Oh, there was a plan;

1) Win referendum
2) David Cameron attempts to negotiate a deal
3) Tory vote of no confidence because the deal wouldn't and couldn't match Leave's grandiose claims
4) New leadership elections at the conference sweep Boris to leadership
5) Boris blames Cameron for everything and promises a better deal and delivers something slightly better on paper than Cameron managed

The Leave campaign were caught off guard by Cameron's resignation. They thought he'd be too proud to go. The message was supposed to be "the Prime Minister will get you your borders and your NHS funding" knowing full well he couldn't so they could stab him in the back later and sweep to power.

Instead, the Leave camp are on the hook for it so they are damage controlling. "Oh, no, I didn't promise that, it was one of the other guys."

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

Is a second referendum realistically possible?

Yes and will very likely happen. Unless something changes, as it stands the signs are pointing to sturgeon going ahead with it. Timeframe is the only thing under question.

 

[paperboywriter]

So Britain fucks over Europe and we can't even pressure them to actually do what they set out to do? That law needs to be adjusted.

 

[Audioboxer]

It's more about gauging support, they will be spending the next few weeks seeing what the mood is.

I don't see Scotland hitching their wagon to Faragian England much longer.

Still the same level of likelihood. Except now she's given details about how she is speaking with EU reps. She is also under pressure by her party and much of the country to start a ref.

Gotta make sure when it's announced whatever Better Together campaign exists gets shot down in flames day 1 if any "lol Scotland you can't get in the EU" starts.

If she can get some sort of statement out of the EU welcoming Scotland, or welcoming a discussion with an independent Scotland that will be gold to launch the ref campaign on.

Why can't the UK get a leader like her? It kinda sucks she's just SNP and will never be PM. She's a great leader for Scotland.

There will be MPs like her in the parties, it's just about trying to vote them up the ladder and pressure your parties into reform/unity. Biggest issue for Labour/Conservative is the constant in-house fighting. Corbyn says a lot of good things the SNP echo, but as I said look at the Labour in-fighting.

Disgusting opportunists attacking Corbyn right after the ref, essentially blaming it all on him.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

England has traditionally been an isolationist sea power. Very inward looking. Lots of historical reasons for this, stemming from the reformation to the industrial revolution to the battle of britain and hundreds of other events in time.

Scotland is not an isolationist country. Scotland has always been an outward looking country. With things like the Auld Alliance, Scotland has also had strong links to European countries such as France.

Now a lot of these reasons go back hundreds of years. I also suspect that in Scotland there was much less constant badgering of the EU in the press.

This is just spin and propaganda. England has always been very involved in Europe. The Anglo-Portuguese military alliance is the oldest active military alliance in the world. It's not like reformation was only an English thing and only England was protestant. It's true that the press in England has been giving constant anti EU messages for decades but if there is a difference in the Scotland it's not that they are higher minded but that anti English messages are much more populist there.

 

[PJV3]

Just suspend the UK, what an indulgent little people they have become.

 

[Trick_GSF]

Just suspend the UK, what an indulgent little people they have become.

Don't paint us all with the same brush...

 

[Tak3n]

Jeremy Corbyn says he will run again if there is a Labour leadership contest
Posted at
11:46
Asked during post-speech questions by Sky News if he would run again if there was a Labour leadership contest, Jeremy Corbyn answers to applause: "Yes, I'm here - thank you."

 

[Maximus P]

Just suspend the UK, what an indulgent little people they have become.

Nice , well thought out argument you have there. Really showing your intelligence over the 'UK little people'

 

[jellies_two]

And how is that related to subjugation?

For the EU to *demand* article 50 is burying what remains of sovereign powers of member states.

So yeah forcing it would be subjugation and a perfect example of the what eu member states would have to look forward to, as eu regulations expand and member states turn into local government areas.

Luckily however despite people saying that's what they are doing, it undoubtably isn't, because they don't yet have that leverage. Hence: negotiated exit in a negotiated time period.

 

[darkwing]

So Britain fucks over Europe and we can't even pressure them to actually do what they set out to do? That law needs to be adjusted.

I guess no one thought someone would actually leave

 

[oti]

Just suspend the UK, what an indulgent little people they have become.

Having a stable government first and negotiate terms later is totally understandable. The issue is, did the UK decide to just not think about this stuff before the referendum was conducted? Leaving the EU up in the air for three months is disrespectful and will make negotiations for favourable trade terms even more difficult. It's just another of Cameron's gambles at this point.

 

[norinrad]

So Britain fucks over Europe and we can't even pressure them to actually do what they set out to do? That law needs to be adjusted.

They did?

 

[theaface]

So, anyone else notice that Boris Johnson and Michael Gove are awfully quiet today?

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Riots are unpredictable and nobody sane would choose them over a referendum. If you prefer that what you are saying is martial law is necessary to crush dissent rather than this option (a vote). Or you are saying a vote is only worth having if it's a forgone conclusion and just a sop.

No I'm not saying that.

I'm saying that if we consider this a direct protest vote, then we should of seen similar pockets of protest votes in the previous year.
Instead we put the conservative party in. Why?

As to your previous point which I missed

UKIP was appealing to these people. Why not labour? because labour has been ineffectual. That's what I'm reading. I don't know.

UKIP had only become effectual because these people have enabled them. Energy that could of been used to enable any number of workers parties or form their own. Let's not pretend UKIP is anything like a counter to the establishment until relatively recently.

 

[Boy Wander]

Just suspend the UK, what an indulgent little people they have become.

Yeah, fuck off. Where are you from that's so fucking great?

 

[justsomeguy]

The whole of Europe is in a far right wing frenzy right now, you'll have that environment everywhere.
France has the FN, Germany has the AfD, Austria has the FPÖ and son on.

I personally went from Paris to Bavaria, and while I'll go back to Paris for a couple years for career reasons (and to be closer to the family for a while), I definitively plan to go back there soon. The bavarian economy is thriving, people are pretty laid back, and the Biergaten were a stroke of genius.
My tip would be to avoid Paris, unless you find that London prising + London overcrowding + unhelpfull and rude people is a great idea.

Unfortunately my easiest route there is a job transfer to... Paris. Got my eye on Nice though.

 

[Meadows]

Just suspend the UK, what an indulgent little people they have become.

What a horrible thing to say

 

[Moosichu]

They might want it. But they can't demand it. In fact if they try to demand it and change the speed at which a member country wants to decide its *own* fate it does rather show how much subjugation is really expected by member states to Brussels when Brussels is unhappy about something.
Perhaps article 50 was rather slapdash from an eu perspective? Quel surprise: they may redo it before the next exit if there is one.

It's not "Brussels", it's the rest of the member states. What do you expect? If Scotland chose to break away from the UK, would you expect Westminster to be happy to keep letting Scotland having all the benefits of being in the UK along with all the benefits of independence?

 

[Audioboxer]

Jeremy Corbyn says he will run again if there is a Labour leadership contest
Posted at
11:46
Asked during post-speech questions by Sky News if he would run again if there was a Labour leadership contest, Jeremy Corbyn answers to applause: "Yes, I'm here - thank you."

Good. The vultures going after him scream "we should really be in the Tory party".

 

[kmag]

This is just spin and propaganda. England has always been very involved in Europe. The Anglo-Portuguese military alliance is the oldest active military alliance in the world. It's not like reformation was only an English thing and only England was protestant. It's true that the press in England has been giving constant anti EU messages for decades but if there is a difference in the Scotland it's not that they are higher minded but that anti English messages are much more populist there.

the bottom line is thanks to empire, a fundamental misunderstanding of what actually happened in ww2, English as the language and thanks to the us of culture and the resultant fall of empire that the English have frankly as a nation always seen themselves as somehow better and somehow above all this European tosh

 

[Arksy]

So, anyone else notice that Boris Johnson and Michael Gove are awfully quiet today?

Speaking of which, where's Geroge Osborne?

 

[Tak3n]

 

[paperboywriter]

They did?

Id say it's not the most positive thing happened to the EU .

 

[justsomeguy]

What a horrible thing to say

Indeed. 48% of voters are devastated and in a daze at this.

 

[Screaming Meat]

Just suspend the UK, what an indulgent little people they have become.

Great contribution. Cheers.

 

[DiGiKerot]

First Leave admits the 350m EU funds per week won't go to NHS, and now, they admit that their claims about immigration may not have been true. That didn't take too long.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ows-back-key-pledges-immigration-nhs-spending

Here's the thing - we weren't voting for a political party, or to give anyone power. We were voting on one decision. The Leave side could promise anything they wanted, or make it sound like they were promising, where all they were really proposing is "we could" options. Most of the people involved in the campaign were never in the situation where they would have to actually try and deliver on what they were claiming. Up until he quits, it's basically Cameron's problem.

 

[Real Hero]

big jezza ain't going anywhere

 

[Sumio Mondo]

There will be MPs like her in the parties, it's just about trying to vote them up the ladder and pressure your parties into reform/unity. Biggest issue for Labour/Conservative is the constant in-house fighting. Corbyn says a lot of good things the SNP echo, but as I said look at the Labour in-fighting.

Disgusting opportunists attacking Corbyn right after the ref, essentially blaming it all on him.

I'm one of those who likes Corbyn too. I think he would be good for the UK as a whole (maybe help mend the wounds in Scotland) and not just South England like certain PMs...
We've literally gone from Blair (shit), to Brown (even worse), to Cameron (also shit). And now potentially even worse candidates. It's about time we had a decent PM by now, lol. Tories and Labour are both broken in half now.

 

[Drackhorn]

So, anyone else notice that Boris Johnson and Michael Gove are awfully quiet today?

Which is the wise thing to do. Leave won but only by a small margin.

 

[Kathian]

Am not sure why the government thinks it can delay for months even years. The negotiation period is actually quite long and with Summer they can get a lot started before MPs start making noises.

 

[SmoothOperator]

So Britain fucks over Europe and we can't even pressure them to actually do what they set out to do? That law needs to be adjusted.

Who are they fucking over ? Britain existed a long time before the idea of European union ever emerged.

Europe is a geographical continent (which also includes Russia) not an organization.