If we're talking about the David Bowie FWWM character, wasn't his doppelganger the one we see in South America, and the guy in Gordon's office was the real Jefferies who was sucked backed into the Lodge?
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Twin Peaks Season 3 OT |25 Years Later...It Is Happening Again
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If we're talking about the David Bowie FWWM character, wasn't his doppelganger the one we see in South America, and the guy in Gordon's office was the real Jefferies who was sucked backed into the Lodge?
EdibleExplosives
Member
This episode felt like a bunch of deleted scenes edited together, frustrating as fuck. This was getting hyped up on Twitter? Candie wasn't even in it, did Kyle somehow get next week's mixed up with this one?
One of the weakest eps of the season.
One of the weakest eps of the season.
Someone pointed out to me that Phillip Jeffries in FWWM is mostly likely jumping around through time like Major Brigs was. It explains why he said "WHO DO YOU THINK THIS IS?" as he pointed at Cooper, he thought it was the doppleganger Coop.
Everything about Phillip Jeffries is so fascinating. I have no idea how this character is going to be on screen in this season without Bowie.
JoJoShabadoo
Member
Honestly to me, a large chunk of the show feels like deleted scenes. The editing and pacing is all over the place and so much is unnecessarily long or pointless to begin with.
Lynch really needed an editor or less episodes, IMO.
The "she has the job" bit in episode 2 is troubling to my theory. I've come back around it and I think Todd is working for Doop, but I still thought Lorraine was working for Jefferies.
For Lorraine to be the "her" mentioned, (and, by extension, in the employ of Doop) that means those assassins that show up literally right after Cooper returns had to be told exactly when they'd be allowed to kill him. There's no communication from Doop during the Lodge pull scene to give them the go ahead and I don't get the sense they were waiting on a specific moment to kill him so much as they were just trying to find and kill him as quickly as possible. Also, if they were hunting Coop and not Dougie, why does the timing matter so much? There's no other pending deadline like the 25 year window opening.
Definitely still a bit torn on this.
Garmanbozia jerky is brilliant. Feeling better about this episode. I was having a crappy day yesterday and I like to unwind with some Twin Peaks madness. Things started out really well and just went downhill from there. I got frustrated. Lynch being a little too self indulgent even for a big fan like me. Threw Audrey under the bus made her look bad although I'm sure that's going somewhere. Guessing Billy is the same Billy Bing was looking for. These type of episodes are necessary sacrifices to help build up better episodes. Also it can just be a bad episode. Sometimes things don't work out. They can't all be winners. We had a lot of these type of episodes in season 2 and thankfully this season has been really solid the whole way through. I just want to say I appreciate this thread and my twin peaks fam. I always laugh at the dumb jokes and I am entertained by the crazy theories.
I really suspect that The Missing Pieces was Lynch's primary inspiration for this season. If you watch it beforehand, it feels like Episode 0, not just narratively but also structurally. He must have felt some creative pull to the concept of compiling a narrative out of a series of disjointed vignettes and scenes, and tried to recreate that experience by creating a new series of "deleted scenes" to compile into a mixed up puzzle in episodic form.
I don't think it's possible they were after Dougie Coop specifically. Even when Ike the Spike gets the folio on Lorraine and Dougie, the picture of Dougie is "real" Dougie and not Dougie Coop. Which makes sense since it seems to be a per-arranged job where Duncan Todd was just waiting for the red square on his laptop to execute. It really feels like Lorraine was, at the very least, not hired through Duncan Todd. She communicated directly with that black box in BA, which would put her above Duncan Todd in a hierarchy if there was one. I think it still makes the most sense that she was working for a different faction (Jefferies) or was hired by Doop without Duncan Todd's involvement.
Here's a thought: We know Kyle was hyping Candie on Twitter like something significant was coming up. What if Candie is the "she" spoken of in Ep. 2 and the job she has is either feeding Duncan Todd info on the Mitchums, or just outright killing them? Her flightiness could be a cover for breaking away for a meeting with Todd or his people.
FWWM was supposed to be the first in a series of Twin Peaks films, so yeah a lot of the current story bits come from there.
Yeah that's definitely a possibility too. A lot of people here are convinced that Doop is behind or involved in that box though. If that's the case, it doesn't make much sense for him to have Duncan Todd hire someone to try to infiltrate. Personally I still don't buy that Doop is directly involved with the box, just that maybe he knows about it and was there at some point. Perhaps he and "Jefferies" or whoever is behind the box severed ties since then and now has to have someone infiltrate, although to what end, is unclear to me. It's not like you could steal the box or anything. Maybe just sabotage?
Oh, I'm sure I just missed the discussion on this, but regarding the paper in the cylinder Briggs left for Bobby/Hawk/Frank:
The red, that has to be the sun and the moon right? I know a waxing/waning crescent wouldn't present like that, with the visible part in the northern hemisphere and the southern hemisphere is dark, but the way they're in the sky over the mountains, I can't think what else they'd be. An eclipse perhaps?
EDIT: Apparently the sun and a partially eclipsed moon are visible in what is called a "selenelion/selenehelion". It's supposed to be an "impossible astrological event", and yet one happened Oct. 8th, 2014. 25 years (roughly) after the original events of Twin Peaks. Hmmm...
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
Oh. Hm.
plagiarize
Banned
I think it's just showing us slices of life in Twin Peaks to underline how 'the light is fading' like Margaret said. My expectations for the ending, currently, is that the town is being poisoned both spiritually by what happened with Mr C and literally with the Chinese drugs Red is running through town. I think Coop being healed will restore things spiritually and I think Bobby is going to take care of Red and cut the head off of that snake too, removing the literal poison coming in via Canada. Espescually given that when we first catch up with Bobby he is clearly working to that end, even before being put at odds with Red with him and Shelly being a thing.
So those scenes serve to remind us that Twin Peaks is sick. That's my current thoughts anyway.
This is where I've been at for a while. I'm glad a lot of people are liking it but I've been watching more out of curiosity that enjoyment since about episode 6. If it had been 9 episodes like originally planned the pacing would probably have been really good, as it has been there's so many scenes that could be shortened or cut entirely without detracting from the story.
uncelestial
Member
This is the salient problem for me. Resolving all this in the six remaining episodes at the pace they're going is impossible, so we're headed for something pretty unsatisfying, I'm guessing.
I mean, no.
Literally half of those can be answered with a single episode. It's obvious many plot lines are converging. And some stuff just shouldn't be answered directly ("what are the woodsmen" would be way too on the nose)
I'm more concerned about getting conclusion on the previous plot points, Annie, Desmond etc...
uncelestial
Member
They *can* be answered, sure. But again, at the pace they're going, nah.
uncelestial
Member
The A.V. Club, which must be smoking crack, rated Part 12 higher than Part 11. (B+ to B)
http://www.avclub.com/tv/twin-peaks/
http://www.avclub.com/tv/twin-peaks/
Absurd.
Emperor_Uriel
Member
• What happened to Laura Palmer when she was ripped out of the Red Room?
• Why was Laura's face in the Orb in episode 8?
• Who is the Giant?
• What is the purple ocean realm that the Giant inhabits?
• What is the "Experiment" that killed the couple in the premiere?
• What is the purpose of the black box in NYC?
• Who is the billionaire funding the black box in NYC?
• What role does BOB play in all of this?
• Why are Gordon and Albert able to see Lodge spirits?
And that's just stuff introduced in Season 3. Let's not even get into the metric shit ton of unanswered questions from the original series, FWWM and The Missing Pieces.
Lots of us are still watching due to the woefully unlikely possibility of a decent conclusion that will answer at least some of our lingering questions. We are being foolish, myself included, for maintaining this hope 12 episodes into the "David Lynch's Awkward Silence and iTunes Playlist Simulator" that is this season.
F0rneus
Tears in the rain
I mean I loved this episode, but last one was better for sure.
The thing about mysteries is if you go into a series like this expecting all of it to be solved, you're bound for disappointment regardless. I can tell you right now that no not everything is going to be explicitly spelled out, much like the identity of Laura's killer in the original series wasn't meant to ever be found out initially until the CBS executives forced it on Frost/Lynch.
We should probably give Frost/Lynch a little more credit as far as ~solving mysteries~ goes. Like this series we found out what happened to the missing pages of Laura's diary, a mystery that ran from the original series, FWWM, and season 3; and it all came together in a satisfying way that made sense. Similarly we found out yesterday what "Blue Rose" is, yet another lingering thread from FWWM.
Also a good chunk of those mysteries listed hardly qualify as a mystery. 'Why is Chad bad' for example. Some cops are shit? Maybe Richard pays him? Who cares.
We should probably give Frost/Lynch a little more credit as far as ~solving mysteries~ goes. Like this series we found out what happened to the missing pages of Laura's diary, a mystery that ran from the original series, FWWM, and season 3; and it all came together in a satisfying way that made sense. Similarly we found out yesterday what "Blue Rose" is, yet another lingering thread from FWWM.
Also a good chunk of those mysteries listed hardly qualify as a mystery. 'Why is Chad bad' for example. Some cops are shit? Maybe Richard pays him? Who cares.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
I'm really glad other folks share these frustrations. So much content that we need more time to explore and answer, instead we get a five minutes of a stupid french prostitute saying bye.
cucuchu
Member
So this series was filmed essentially as one long movie from what I read. That would mean the cast would only have a rough idea of what content would be in the following week's episode, right? I just don't understand why this episode was hyped up so much. It had some interesting parts (Sarah Palmer, Palmer house, FWWM and S1/2 callbacks, the assasination) but it felt like the Ben Horne and Audrey scenes were TRYING to agitate me. I'm willing to give the Gordon/Albert/French Girl scene a pass in hopes that MAYBE she was giving off some kind of code while leaving the room but I somehow doubt that is the case.
I'm going to assume this was all just a primer/setup for some glorious insanity next episode.
I'm going to assume this was all just a primer/setup for some glorious insanity next episode.
Camper Van Beethoven
Banned
Why are people confused that twitters ran by Showtime or people associated with the show would hype up forthcoming episodes.
Because if you hype up your worst episode you're going to piss off a lot of people, and when you have an actually good episode coming up, nobody will believe you.
Poimandres
Member
I thought this episode was pretty dull, but I think you're really pushing this angle too hard. Many people thought last weeks episode was the best of the whole season... some people went as far as to call it the best in the whole series!
So I don't think your "more people in here voicing concerns shows we're losing faith in Lynch" statement holds much water. The people in here who have lost faith have been complaining pretty much the entire season. It seems like you're just looking for validation.
uncelestial
Member
Projecting much? Find me all these people claiming Part 12 was the best in the whole series. I want to see receipts.
Imagine if there was social media/forums during the original series run:
"Oh god why is Leland always crying? This is terrible, Lynch is clearly just trolling us and it's infuriating. It's the same bit over and over again, it goes on forever. We get it, Leland is sad and it's a parody of melodrama. Oh god why are we still lingering on this gag?"
"Oh god why is Leland always crying? This is terrible, Lynch is clearly just trolling us and it's infuriating. It's the same bit over and over again, it goes on forever. We get it, Leland is sad and it's a parody of melodrama. Oh god why are we still lingering on this gag?"
Then, you find out why he's like that. And it all makes sense later. 
I find it hilarious that people are so hung up on making sure Chad and Richard get their comeuppance like bad people never got away with anything before. In a world where you have Lodges, Woodsmen, BOB, doppelgängers, The Experiment, Dido, The Giant, etc., who gives a shit about one crooked cop and a scumbag? Richard was interesting while he lasted, but I wouldn't be shocked if episode 11 was the last we ever see of him this season. Chad will probably get caught. Or he won't. Does it matter? After all this time, the fate of a single crooked cop in Twin Peaks, WA is of little concern, to me anyway.
That said, I'm honestly not expecting answers to even a lot of the White Lodge/Black Lodge questions. They basically already gave us BOB's origin story. I doubt they'll explain it much beyond that. Maybe they'll explain the FrogMoth or why Laura was special, but I'm not counting on it. The most I would hope for is a conclusion of sorts for Cooper. Currently there's one Cooper too many in the world. That's something that, by the narrative's own admission, needs to be resolved. Past that, the rest is just fun. Fun to watch, fun to speculate about, fun to interpret.
This thread should just be renamed Twin Peaks: The Return of Fan FUD.
While I'm sure there will be a fair amount left underexplained, or completely unexplained, by the time Part 18 ends, I do think some are underestimating just how willing Lynch and Frost are to actually tie things off. I mean, the last episode spelled out very plainly what "blue rose" was all about!
Poimandres
Member
You wanna see the receipts? Well here you go, all taken from this thread.
Note that I never claimed it was the best ep of the series personally. I do think this is the best season of Twin Peaks though (so far) but I'm really not projecting anything... I'm just trying to push for civil conversation, and trying to maintain some semblance of objectivity when assessing reception in this thread.
I couldn't care less about resolving plot threads. Just give me something entertaining to watch. Give me likable characters. Stop draining the personalities from characters I once enjoyed -- and that doesn't just mean Coop. Stop being so one note with this exercise in deliberately testing your audience's patience. It hasn't been clever for several episodes. Shit can the musical numbers and bring back the awesomely distinct background music.
But if it all somehow leads to the finale recapturing that authentic Twin Peaks magic it'll be worth it. I just have no faith that anyone involved cares to make that kind of show anymore.
...save for Michael Cera who surprisingly crushed it.
Haven't they actually been doing it selectively? I hadn't really heard much hype aside from this episode and episode 8, which definitely merited the hype. If they were hyping up every episode as the craziest, most mind blowing hour of television, yeah, I'd be more skeptical.
Emperor_Uriel
Member
And thank God they did. This was a rare case where executive meddling led to the greatest sequence in a series. When I think of the defining moment of Twin Peaks, "It is happening again"/the Leland reveal stands miles above everything else.
That's what makes Season 3's path forward even more uncertain: "The Return" is Lynch unchained, with no executive oversight or ratings to consider. If that had been true of the original series, the resolution to Laura's murder might have been completely botched and it would have been remembered as a failure.
I mean, think of how many initially great series had their legacies tarnished because nobody stepped in and put a stop to them. Imagine if Lost had been given two seasons from start to finish. Imagine if season 4 had been the last season of Dexter.
I think that the sad realization we're going to reach at the end of season 3 is not that it should have been longer or shorter, but that the series finale should have been the epilogue to Laura Palmer's murder (Season 2, Episode 10). It simply didn't need to go further.
uncelestial
Member
None of these are episode 12, breh. They're from July 23-24. Part 12 aired on 7/30.
You have noble aims and I share them, but the criticism of this episode is more than fair. Meanwhile you're the attempting to claim consensus/support for your belief that episode 12 was good without much backing you, so yeah, you might be projecting a bit when you accuse people of doing the same with their belief that it was bad.
All those pull quotes are about Episode 11, not 12.
Intheflorsh
Banned
To be fair, Poimandres was referring to episode 11 in his original post.
Brian_FETO
Banned
You didn't need season 3 to make that conclusion
Season 3 is keeping it going and having fun with it. I guess I'm coming from a more forgiving place as I'm a more recent fan of the series from a few years ago, vs. waiting 20 years for answers
We went into this season with no idea of what to expect, the season continues time and time again to assure us that we still have no idea. It's a weird, surprising thing that will probably wrap itself up in the end.
Enjoy it while it lasts instead of stressing that the car is too far off the tracks dudes (unless you aren't enjoying it at all, in which case, that's alright)
uncelestial
Member
Nope.
Intheflorsh
Banned
He clearly was, but OK.
Episode 11 was the best episode of the season for me, and one of the best of the series in general. 12 wasn't bad, it was just a huge step down from 11.
Poimandres
Member
I never mentioned ep 12 though... I said last weeks episode!
Intheflorsh
Banned
Maybe this will be helpful:
uncelestial
Member
Edit: Right, the second sentence he is, the first sentence he isn't. But then he replied to me asking about Part 12 with praise for Part 11. Whatever, it doesn't matter.
Poimandres
Member
I was referring to episode 11. Last weeks episode, not this weeks. I sort of forgot that it airs on a Monday here in Australia so I should have clarified, but I was always talking about ep 11.
I even said I thought ep 12 was dull in the very same post, so the bolded above is... well... untrue.
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