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[ElectricBlanketFire]

 

[NateDrake]

I'm talking about the POV footage.

The POV isn't in the OP though.

Wow...

 

[Pinchable Buttocks]

I get your point but AllLivesMatter is from BLM's perspective seen as anti-black. These victims were white. You see where I'm going? Don't hashtag anything AllLivesMatter unless you want to see a race war. Hashtags spelled the same don't distinguish between intent whether it be about race or lack of gun control. They all go to the same place. Saying "RIP" to AllLivesMatter will then essentially call up your post history...and people wondering why you say "RIP" to AllLivesMatter when white people die but not BLM when black people die. It'd be stoking the flames of perceived racist bias. Unless of course, you've said "RIP" or some other message on BLM...in which case you can point and say, I do this for all victims of violence. While your reasoning is sound to me...that's not how'd it be perceived. Don't hashtag anything ALM or WLM no matter your intent.

Why can't he just say what he said without all this? I don't know his motives but perhaps it wasn't cynical?

 

[stufte]

i have a feeling this will be the tragedy that finally gets mainstream america to realize the true caustic nature of our gun culture that enables a constant cycle of murder, or at least forces them to have the conversation

for years i have said "why don't we have mandatory psych evals when buying a gun or renewing a license and bar the mentally unstable from owning guns" and the response i always get from the fools is "but bad guys will still get guns from somewhete!!" as if the possibility of illegally circumventing a law means there should not be one at all

perhaps now that white people have been killed by a deranged black man who should have been barred from gun ownership people will understand that just because you cannot prevent all tragedy does not mean you should not do what you can to prevent most tragedies

If a bunch of children being killed by a deranged shooter didn't wake people up, this definitely won't.

And this isn't the first time a black man has killed white people so quit trying to use race to fuel a gun debate.

 

[BertramCooper]

I'm talking about the POV footage.

And the OP refers to the news footage.

 

[RM8]

Just to add some perspective - shootings here in Mexico are perpetuated by cold blooded drug criminals who belong to cartels. Shootings in the US can be perpetuated by basically anyone with enough hate for some demographic.

 

[nrvalleytime]

I can absolutely understand and appreciate why people don't want it aired, but airing the footage might actually a good thing in some ways. It presents the horrors of gun violence in all its brutality and might actually result in a positive change.

Again, I can absolutely appreciate why people don't want it aired, but I feel it's actually something that people should be forced to watch. It's too easy to dismiss gun violence when you're not presented with direct footage of its indiscriminate and unavoidable brutality. All those people who then come out of the woodwork with their claims of 'if only everyone had been armed, he might have been stopped', this serves as an example to why that line of thinking is flawed.

If this doesn't result in at least some reforms, I just don't know. The US really will be a list cause with how it deals with guns.

Respectfully disagree. We already, as a nation, believe the taking of life to be horrible. Watching this doesn't help that truth become any more real.

https://www.russellmoore.com/2015/08/26/should-we-watch-murders-on-social-media/

I don’t think we should watch the video. I don’t think we should post it. And I don’t think media outlets should run it. Here’s why. We have no lack of consensus in our society that the gunning down of innocent people is morally wrong. To be fair, we do have legitimate debate about what to do about gun violence but not about the morality of the violence itself. The conscience of society is already awakened to the horror of such evil.

Moreover, our watching the video seems to feed into the wicked desires of the murderer himself. He chose, after all, to carry out this atrocity on what he knew would be a live television feed. He wanted not only to kill these innocents but also to broadcast their deaths. Perhaps he wanted the notoriety of killing. Perhaps he wanted to humiliate them with the recording of their deaths at his hands. We shouldn’t enable this murderer his wishes. He wanted not only to murder their physical lives but to murder their digital images as well.

This killer’s video isn’t exposing darkness. It is celebrating darkness. He put forward a kind of pornography of violence, and from that we must turn away.

 

[la flama blanca]

Just to add some perspective - shootings here in Mexico are perpetuated by cold blooded drug criminals who belong to cartels. Shootings in the US can be perpetuated by basically anyone with enough hate for some demographic.

Guess where the guns come from both instances?

 

[ThatGuyAgain]

giving a vivid picture with explicit detail.

Nope, not graphic.

I'm assuming the shooter's P.O.V. video is very graphic, but the footage from the news report is not.

Yes, the POV video is very graphic and very disturbing. I saw it literally within 1 minute of the shooter posting it to his twitter account and it auto-played. I honestly could not believe what I was watching was real... trust me and don't watch it. I almost puked and had to go for a long walk to get my head straight. I can't unsee it now. Very disturbing and sad. I didn't watch the entire thing... just the beginning to where he started shooting Alison and couldn't click away from it fast enough.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

The guy who you quoted was talking about the people in this thread.

You never specified that you were talking about NRA people.

And since the guy you quoted was talking about people in here, it seemed you were, too.

Sorry if it seemed that way, I wasn't aiming it specifically at people here because I hadn't read the thread. It was just a thought I had about the gun rights obsessives that use the issue as a deflection like jonm said. Basically the "Don't talk about guns, it's mental illness" types

 

[Dedication Through Light]

i have a feeling this will be the tragedy that finally gets mainstream america to realize the true caustic nature of our gun culture that enables a constant cycle of murder, or at least forces them to have the conversation

What conversation, conversation has been happening for years. Why else is "guns" always on presidential and local agendas? Its even on news, yesterday was the 1yr anniversary of when a 9 yr old girl accidently shot and killed instructor at a gun range and the question of it they shouldnt allow children to handle guns, but the gun range has not changed the rule leaving it up to parents to decide. No one is avoiding a "conversation," why else launch campaigns?

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

I honestly could not believe what I was watching was real... trust me and don't watch it. I almost puked and had to go for a long walk to get my head straight. I can't unsee it now.

The same. I had to keep myself from throwing up. Almost passed out.

 

[la flama blanca]

Yes, the POV video is very graphic and very disturbing. I saw it literally within 1 minute of the shooter posting it to his twitter account and it auto-played. I honestly could not believe what I was watching was real... trust me and don't watch it. I almost puked and had to go for a long walk to get my head straight. I can't unsee it now. Very disturbing and sad.

Is it bad that it literally had no effect on me? I am so completely desensitized

 

[Sianos]

as like 100 people in this thread alone have said, if sandy hook didn't do it, this isn't gonna do it

sandy hook was a fucking nightmare, and it sparked about a 2 week "conversation" while some people called it a false flag operation and harassed victims' families.

very true

i was thinking along the lines of how the black panthers "inspired" gun control in california, but we are probably too far down the rabbit hole at this point

you're right, it'll be "scared white people arm themselves", not "disarm the black people (and everyone else)

 

[Tobor]

I just saw the killer's GoPro vid, horrifying. I am amazed they didn't notice when he got so close with the gun drawn.

Absolute tragedy.

Where does the idea it was a GoPro coming from? It was clearly a cell phone. You can even see him holding it in his left hand in the still image.

 

[ErasureAcer]

Why can't he just say what he said without all this?

I just explained it in the post you quoted. *facepalm* Getting AllLivesMatter trendng is not the thing to do ever even though the sentiment is right but even if you disagree with that still you should not get it trending when the gunman is black and the victims are white. It's in very poor taste.

 

[Cub3h]

It feels tacky to start banging on about gun control every time one of these tragedies happens (and they happen way too often), but christ, Americans, sort your laws out. At any other time no one seems to be listening anyway which is why so many people have already started asking for gun conrol again.

Yeah you can't get rid of guns overnight when there are so many in circulation but you have to start somewhere. No more new gun sales, no more bullets. Buy back programs, background checks, waiting times, psych tests, anything.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

I just saw the killer's GoPro vid, horrifying. I am amazed they didn't notice when he got so close with the gun drawn.

Absolute tragedy.

People aren't as perceptual as you'd like to believe. Some of the teachers where I work actually do a skit where they tell students to watch as a ball is passed around, and then someone wearing something lavish and silly walks right across the stage in front of them and well over 90% the students miss it because they were focused on the task handed to them. So it's understandable a reporter, who is probably used to bystanders approaching, didn't notice the gun.

 

[AstroNut325]

I'm not feeling much, if anything from this. I guess I've been desensitized seeing stuff like this on a weekly basis.

America made its bed a long time ago. We all now need to sleep in it. Maybe in a century or two we will see meaningful change.

 

[ValleyJoe]

Sorry, it's kind of hard to tell through the internet and I know your initial post wasn't an attack in any way shape or form (even when I was telling you to calm down). I agree, that's why I was asking. I'm not exactly the most knowledgeable when it comes to gun politics or logistics.

I apologize as well for anything I've said that may have offended anyone in here. I really wish there was an easy answer to this situation. I wish we could just have a discussion where people would make realistic suggestions about how to start fixing the problem rather than just the usual guns are bad and should be banned with no suggestions how to actually implement the policy.
How about a one year waiting period for first time gun buyers. I wonder what percentage of gun homicides are committed by psychotic people who are in a bad state of mind and just went out and bought their first gun that week and only had to wait a few days to get it. A one year wait with mandatory training could curb a large percentage of "Passion Murders".
How about mandatory heavy duty safe ownership as a requirement to own guns. I keep my guns in a 1000lb safe bolted to my floor. Make gun owners fully responsible for keeping their guns secure so Sandy Hook situations can't happen. If they are found to be negligent in securing their guns and the guns are stolen and used to commit a crime, the gun owner should bear some responsibility and face jail time.
Point is, the gun control discussion needs to focus on realistic steps toward disarming rather than immediate sweeping change that will cause every hillbilly in the country to go on the offensive.

 

[stufte]

very true

i was thinking along the lines of how the black panthers "inspired" gun control in california, but we are probably too far down the rabbit hole at this point

you're right, it'll be "arm the white people", not "disarm the black people (and everyone else)

Serious tin foil hat shit right there.

 

[Zabant]

First time I have seen this, what is very much a domestic US story is reaching the world in a way unimaginable before social media.

Virginia shooting tragedy: Britons DEMAND America re-thinks gun control laws

Though I don't think we have any right to 'demand' anything

 

[e_i]

Fucking hell.

 

[cwmartin]

First time I have seen this, what is very much a domestic US story is reaching the world in a way unimaginable before social media.

Virginia shooting tragedy: Britons DEMAND America re-thinks gun control laws

Though I don't think we have any right to 'demand' anything

We need your help. Not enough people in our own country demanding it.

 

[Sianos]

What conversation, conversation has been happening for years. Why else is "guns" always on presidential and local agendas? Its even on news, yesterday was the 1yr anniversary of when a 9 yr old girl accidently shot and killed instructor at a gun range and the question of it they shouldnt allow children to handle guns, but the gun range has not changed the rule leaving it up to parents to decide. No one is avoiding a "conversation," why else launch campaigns?

a conversation implies two people talking to one another and listening to the others points

the years of campaigning against unacceptable lack of regulation of gun ownership with regards to mental illness have

clearly fallen on deaf ears, as evidenced by the fact that we keep having the same tragedies with the same calls to action against the gun problem with the same terrible rhetoric against them with the same inaction leading into the same tragedy again

 

[JABEE]

And Manson told his cult members that the Beatles were telling them to kill people from secret messages on the White Album.

The eccentricities of a crazy person with a gun.

 

[Kinyou]

Where does the idea it was a GoPro coming from? It was clearly a cell phone. You can even see him holding it in his left hand in the still image.

I guess because you can actually see the gun in his hand. I think if someone was filming in a normal way with a phone it wouldn't look that way. The asshole probably took extra care to have the gun within the picture.

 

[Squalor]

First time I have seen this, what is very much a domestic US story is reaching the world in a way unimaginable before social media.

Virginia shooting tragedy: Britons DEMAND America re-thinks gun control laws

Though I don't think we have any right to 'demand' anything

All of a sudden? That's odd.

 

[No Love]

Just watched the POV video... fucking monster

 

[KingGondo]

@ValleyJoe: First of all, very few people have proposed mandatory disarmament or banning all guns. But you need to understand that the following:

How about a one year waiting period for first time gun buyers... A one year wait with mandatory training

How about mandatory heavy duty safe ownership as a requirement to own guns.

If they are found to be negligent in securing their guns and the guns are stolen and used to commit a crime, the gun owner should bear some responsibility and face jail time.

Has no chance of happening in the current climate. The NRA, the gun lobby, and hardcore right-wingers are against virtually any regulation whatsoever.

For what it's worth, I pretty much agree with your suggestions.

 

[CadetMahoney]

Where does the idea it was a GoPro coming from? It was clearly a cell phone. You can even see him holding it in his left hand in the still image.

probably someone who wants to paint gopro in a bad light.

 

[The Elite]

This guy wanted his agenda to be heard. He committed these acts of murder in a very public style knowing that it would be a national news story. He uploaded his own videos to social media because he knew that would spark even more interest in what was happening. ABC releasing his manifesto is giving this guy exactly what he wanted. He killed two people and they are now, posthumously, giving him a soapbox to stand on and the voice that he desired. His twisted message is reaching the masses.

 

[Sianos]

Serious tin foil hat shit right there.

i don't mean an actual campaign to arm white people, i mean scared white people continuing to buy more guns, just as this man bought a gun in response to the charleston shooting and used it to commit an atrocity

but you're right, my active language use did imply that i meant there was an organized effort to arm white people as a collective

i edited the post and yeah, it read like a conspiracy theory. thank you for pointing that out, it's hypocritical for me to call out inflammatory phrasing if i use it too

 

[TheLaughingStock]

WTF is wrong with people! This fool executed people on live TV, recorded in FP, and uploaded it to social media. Unbelievable!

 

[Zabant]

All of a sudden? That's odd.

It is all over the news here, i think mainly due to the 'fellow media member' angle
I guess, for us a shooting like this is a very big deal as we never ever see it locally.

That combined with multiple angles and video of it... pretty shocking.

 

[thelatestmodel]

Ok just try and vote on that.

I admit that this is a controversial opinion, but I don't think this should even require a vote. For the good of the country, they should just be banned, straight up. Emergency legislation.

Don't get me wrong, I think the population should get to vote on pretty much everything. Trouble is, with this problem, there is only one right answer, and a lot of idiots who will defend the wrong answer to the death. The NRA, for example, is just a huge problem at this point.

British people didn't get to vote when handguns were banned in 1996. They were just taken away. The same should happen here. Obviously it's an exponentially bigger job, but it's got to be done.

 

[Deified Data]

i have a feeling this will be the tragedy that finally gets mainstream america to realize the true caustic nature of our gun culture that enables a constant cycle of murder, or at least forces them to have the conversation

I have literally zero doubts that this incident will inspire more talk about BLM than gun culture.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

It feels tacky to start banging on about gun control every time one of these tragedies happens (and they happen way too often),

Don't feel that way. It's not tacky at all. It's the correct response. If it seems like you're doing it too often, that's probably because it pretty much happens every day. It definitely happens every week.

 

[Hari Seldon]

First time I have seen this, what is very much a domestic US story is reaching the world in a way unimaginable before social media.

Virginia shooting tragedy: Britons DEMAND America re-thinks gun control laws

Though I don't think we have any right to 'demand' anything

Lol British people are confused as to why everyone dont' got kings.

 

[Patrick S.]

Just to add some perspective - shootings here in Mexico are perpetuated by cold blooded drug criminals who belong to cartels. Shootings in the US can be perpetuated by basically anyone with enough hate for some demographic.

Just to add some perspective - I think there are more cold blooded drug criminals who belong to cartels in Mexico than there are people with enough hate for some demographic in the US who perpetuate shootings.

 

[No Love]

Just to add some perspective - I think there are more cold blooded drug criminals who belong to cartels in Mexico than there are people with enough hate for some demographic in the US.

Ok Donald Trump.

How and why the fuck would you quantify that?

 

[Sephzilla]

Just to add some perspective - I think there are more cold blooded drug criminals who belong to cartels in Mexico than there are people with enough hate for some demographic in the US who perpetuate shootings.

1) I'm pretty sure there's no way you can prove that

2) Why even quantify this?

 

[Hari Seldon]

I admit that this is a controversial opinion, but I don't think this should even require a vote. For the good of the country, they should just be banned, straight up. Emergency legislation.

Don't get me wrong, I think the population should get to vote on pretty much everything. Trouble is, with this problem, there is only one right answer, and a lot of idiots who will defend the wrong answer to the death. The NRA, for example, is just a huge problem at this point.

British people didn't get to vote when handguns were banned in 1996. They were just taken away. The same should happen here. Obviously it's an exponentially bigger job, but it's got to be done.

ok get the king to get on this asap

In actual reality, we live in an alleged representative democracy, and if Dems want a fight about 50 trillion times harder than obamacare, they would do this and then burn all of their political capital, lose the presidency, and get nothing else done all to reduce the mag size from 40 to 20 in the end.

Edit: Actually if they did this, and it ended up like obamacare, we would probably end up with a law where everyone has to buy one gun a year or face a tax penalty.

 

[Mecha]

Because it doesn't make any sense with your reasoning.

But beyond that, what is the appropriate time frame for releasing important information to a developing story? The entire purpose of the news is to deliver breaking information to top stories. That is how it will always be.

I'll try to spell it out more:
I don't agree with the act of popularizing killers
I can't stop people from looking at news stories that popularizes them

So what do I lose from posting a link that at the very least doesn't give the news website a click for the article? If people want to look at the article they will. So if they are going to look at it for whatever reason why shouldn't I give them an alternative that doesn't give the article a click?

Have you ever heard of the phrase "the lesser of two evils"? It follows the same logic, I don't agree with the action, but the alternative is the lesser of the two evils.

Sure, but news also has ethics. Should we also start listing off names of minors involved in crimes? I mean like you said, if it's viable to a breaking news story, why shouldn't we do this? If the news just regurgitated facts without any thought into what they put out it would look completely different.

You don't need to release a killers manifesto during the day of the shooting. If you feel obligated enough then do so after most of the dust has settled. When you release things like this at the height of the stories popularity it has a much higher chance of catching the attention of some unstable people.

 

[Patrick S.]

Ok Donald Trump.

How and why the fuck would you quantify that?

By looking up statistics on drug related murder rates in Mexico and looking up statistics on people shot to death in the US because of their skin colour?

 

[Zabant]

Lol British people are confused as to why everyone dont' got kings.

You think you're hilarious don't you?

 

[thelatestmodel]

ok get the king to get on this asap

In actual reality, we live in an alleged representative democracy, and if Dems want a fight about 50 trillion times harder than obamacare, they would do this and then burn all of their political capital, lose the presidency, and get nothing else done all to reduce the mag size from 40 to 20 in the end.

Very funny. The Queen had nothing to do with it. It happened via Parliament and was agreed upon for the good of our society. America should do the same. It has nothing to do with democracy and representation.

 

[LifeLike]

The POV Video of the shooter is weird he first point the gun at them, they dont notice him at all, he shoots the cameraman from the back...

 

[Pinchable Buttocks]

Lol British people are confused as to why everyone dont' got kings.

um..

 

[marrec]

ok get the king to get on this asap

In actual reality, we live in an alleged representative democracy, and if Dems want a fight about 50 trillion times harder than obamacare, they would do this and then burn all of their political capital, lose the presidency, and get nothing else done all to reduce the mag size from 40 to 20 in the end.

I'm perhaps the most anti-gun person on the planet, and I agree.

There simply isn't the political will to spend on this topic. The movement to ban (or control I guess) guns needs to start in the constituency and move up from there, not down from the government.