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[Oersted]

Obama is a GAFer?! Awesome.



Yeah, it's just mind boggling that we're supporting a government that is taking liberties in doing this to us and people from other countries. It's fucking scary. And this just confirms it.

Remember when there was some "socialism" outcry over a healthcare reform?

 

[maniac-kun]

I don't think the German government cares nor will they do anything

They will care if Merkel ignores it. We have elections in September.

 

[:Motorbass]

Germany what you up to bro?

Apparently not much. No US Troops here...

 

[TCRS]

The opposition doesn't care. The government doesn't care.

This will have no effect on the elections. Merkel has this one in the bag, especially since our opposition has already fucked up monumentally.

I'd be shocked if this had any consequences. Keep in mind our government is at best against industry espionage, but certainly doesn't want to piss off the US because their military bases bring in a lot of money.

I doubt this story will blow over this easily. It might not have any concrete consequences, but there will be plenty of debates. Merkel will have to reassure the public.

 

[Frankfurter]

The opposition doesn't care. The government doesn't care.

This will have no effect on the elections. Merkel has this one in the bag, especially since our opposition has already fucked up monumentally.

I'd be shocked if this had any consequences. Keep in mind our government is at best against industry espionage, but certainly doesn't want to piss off the US because their military bases bring in a lot of money.

You do realize that several members of the opposition have already raised their voices about this issue? It's not like that's gonna get better if Merkel doesn't do anything.

 

[Gintamen]

Either Merkel takes this one for herself or Die Grünen take all the votes for this one Imo. The SPD is nothing but a sinking ship right now.

 

[maniac-kun]

Either Merkel takes this one for herself or Die Grünen take all the votes for this one Imo. The SPD is nothing but a sinking ship right now.

Maybe the Piratenpartei will gain some votes after this scandal too.

 

[raindoc]

To be fair though, west and south is basically where everything is concentrated.

other than skinheads.

 

[Gintamen]

Maybe the Piratenpartei will gain some votes after this scandal too.

That party is dead, they lost all their momentum and should never lead anybody, since they themselves don't fucking know what they want.

ElTopo
I fear the Links-SPD-Grünen alliance, anything but that!! I would rather not vote than to support any of these three.

 

[Frankfurter]

Oh please. They pretend to be angry for two days and that's it. There's so much shit the government could've been called out for and the opposition did nothing. They barely spoke out against the Bestandsdatenauskunft.

The matter is too complicated for the average citizen. Merkel will likely give us some vague, non-telling statements, hoping that other news (e.g. the demonstrations in Egypt) appears that makes people forget about this.

This is far too big to get ignored. And it's been going on for quite a few days already and every other day there is new information.
And the matter really isn't all that complicated... it's perfect for elections. Freedom versus totalitarism, peaceful cooperation versus monitoring. It screams "Make this your election theme".

Edit: As if Merkel heard me, reaction from the press secretary Steffen Seibert (rough translation by me): "Monitoring friends, that's unnaceptable, that's a no-go, this is not the cold war times anymore."

 

[jorma]

I'm getting really tired of the "This is what governments do" bullshit. Repeating it 800 times in every thread isn't adding anything to discussion.

It's not even true. This is what the US does.

All governments don't, and spying on behalf of the domestic private sector is pretty serious. Claiming that this is the norm is tinfoil territory.

 

[Ikael]

I think that in the light of these recent events, the EU should consider giving asylum rights to Snowden. You know, just for shits and giggles.

 

[TCRS]

I think that in the light of these recent events, the EU should consider giving asylum rights to Snowden. You know, just for shits and giggles.

The leader of Germanys Green party has already made that suggestion:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23125451

 

[jimi_dini]

The leader of Germanys Green party has already made that suggestion:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23125451

I wouldn't trust that Green party at all.

They are the ones primarily responsible for Germany being involved for the very first time in a war (after world war II) without UN mandate against a sovereign state.

 

[Kinyou]

Why shouldn't our our intelligence community be spying on other countries? Because it's not a 'nice' thing to do or something? So what? The US should not be spying on its own citizens without a court order, that part I obviously agree with, but why should I care about monitoring non-citizens? What's the point of being deaf dumb and blind to the world? That would be a stupidly unnecessary disadvantage to have for no good reason.

I want our intelligence community to know shit that other countries - even our allies - don't want us to know. It's a dangerous world, so fuck being nice. Snowden spilling the beans on our international intel gathering programs is ridiculously naive and reckless and it serves no purpose other than attempting to embarrass the government and screwing up international relations. It's a dick move. He should've stopped when he was ahead.

If international relations get screwed up the only one to blame is the NSA. Not Snowden.

 

[lednerg]

If international relations get screwed up the only one to blame is the NSA. Not Snowden.

These latest leaks have nothing to do with violating the Constitution or our rights. He's merely out to embarrass the intelligence community now, and it's for no reason other than some naive concept of morality and more than a little hubris. Any nation with the ability to spy on other countries would be stupid not to; I don't see what the problem is other than this snitch.

 

[Mr. RHC]

People, this is what the NSA is supposed to do. Gotta find all the terrorists in Germany!

*sarcasm off*

But in reality, it's kind of the fault of the European Union too, after 9/11 they gave the United States a free pass to manipulate information policy and data protection. If they don't start to revoke this everything on a legal basis will be just as bad as the "friendly" spies.

 

[Kinyou]

These latest leaks have nothing to do with violating the Constitution or our rights. He's merely out to embarrass the intelligence community now, and it's for no reason other than some naive concept of morality and more than a little hubris. Any nation with the ability to spy on other countries would be stupid not to; I don't see what the problem is other than this snitch.

So if it would come out that china does exactly the same to the US industry you'd be cool with it and be angry at the guy who told us?

And again, if the NSA doing what it does is enough to damage international relations than the NSA is to blame for that.This could have come out through other ways than just Snowden.

 

[lednerg]

So if it would come out that china does exactly the same to the US industry you'd be cool with it and be angry at the guy who told us?

And again, if the NSA doing what it does is enough to damage international relations than the NSA is to blame for that.

China and Russia do the same things that the NSA does. In fact, it's more than a bit hypocritical of Snowden to be throwing stones from there. Everybody in the intelligence communities knew it was going on, but now they have to deal with all the details being public knowledge. It's an unnecessary clusterfuck and it's all for what exactly? "Oh and my country is monitoring your citizens, they're big meanies. Derrr."

 

[nib95]

Disgraceful. The US is becoming more of a parody each and every day. Bradley Manning, Occupy, Iraq, torture cells, firearms trade with drug cartels and extremists, NSA, support of Israel, general political landscape (GOP) and so much more. This is the kind of stuff they lambast other nations for. But hypocrisy has always been a key ingredient of US politics.

Truth be told, a large part of blame falls to many Americans themselves. So many are so easily manipulated and unbelievably apathetic. I wouldn't be surprised if many people in America are already criticising Snowdon for all manner of media fed malarkey despite him doing something otherwise honourable.

 

[robertsan21]

Sad stuff for USA, good stuff for mankind and our freedom! Go snowden!

 

[Can Crusher]

I'm sure Germany is just going to take this lightly lol

Got caught spying the wrong country.

 

[hEist]

USA: "Sorry for this."
Germany: "It's fine."

Like always.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

I'm sure Germany is just going to take this lightly lol

This and I am even thinking, that politicians like Friedrich support all this stuff and want access to it...

 

[jsnepo]

I can't wait for the new world order. It's inevitable anyway.

 

[Tamanon]

USA: "Sorry for this."
Germany: "It's fine."

Like always.

Yup

 

[Gustav]

Disgraceful. The US is becoming more of a parody each and every day. Bradley Manning, Occupy, Iraq, torture cells, firearms trade with drug cartels and extremists, NSA, support of Israel, general political landscape (GOP) and so much more. This is the kind of stuff they lambast other nations for. But hypocrisy has always been a key ingredient of US politics.

Truth be told, a large part of blame falls to many Americans themselves. So many are so easily manipulated and unbelievably apathetic. I wouldn't be surprised if many people in America are already criticising Snowdon for all manner of media fed malarkey despite him doing something otherwise honourable.

None of those issues are just black nor just white. There is a lot of grey area, a lot of questions and not many answers.

 

[Half and half]

Did the US ever catch any flack over the UN spying that wikileaks revealed in their State Dept. cables?

It sort of seems like it was a big deal for a week or so and then everyone forgot. I have a feeling the same thing will happen here.

 

[Tamanon]

Did the US ever catch any flack over the UN spying that wikileaks revealed in their State Dept. cables?

It sort of seems like it was a big deal for a week or so and then everyone forgot. I have a feeling the same thing will happen here.

Nope, just like the UK won't catch any flak over spying on the G20 reps and China doesn't catch any flak about spying on the US. Initial grandstanding, nohing of value.

 

[mnz]

Apparently not much. No US Troops here...

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ausländische_Militärbasen_in_Deutschland
Right, only 56,000.

What's most repulsive to me about all of this is the American public. Just completely apathetic, it's sad. When was the last time you had millions on the street? Your country is involved in so many scandals and crimes, yet the public never answers. What would need to happen?

 

[Espresso]

Update: http://www.spiegel.de/international...y-revelations-of-mass-us-spying-a-908746.html

 

[Hari Seldon]

I mean as an American I don't want the NSA spying on friendly nations or America. Hopefully Germans get pissed and cancel the trade deal. The only thing that will fix this shit in the US is money taken from companies that are lobbying.

 

[JCizzle]

I mean as an American I don't want the NSA spying on friendly nations or America. Hopefully Germans get pissed and cancel the trade deal. The only thing that will fix this shit in the US is money taken from companies that are lobbying.

Didn't it come out recently that the Brits were doing the exact same thing at the g20 summit a few years ago?

 

[Inversive]

Dirty American fucks.

 

[videogamer]

Fuck Snowden. All the blowback his self-righteous horseshit is causing will never be worth it.

What evidence do you have that the blowback is not worth it?

 

[BombStrike]

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ausländische_Militärbasen_in_Deutschland
Right, only 56,000.

What's most repulsive to me about all of this is the American public. Just completely apathetic, it's sad. When was the last time you had millions on the street? Your country is involved in so many scandals and crimes, yet the public never answers. What would need to happen?

Gay marriage and banning firearms are more an issue than this for the average american.
But yeah I don't see much flack coming from governments themselves, maybe the EU will punish US companies with massive fines but that's it.

 

[AllenShrz]

Well if Germany has nothing to hide they shouldn't mind being spied on.

I have nothing to hide... from some one that I trust.

 

[Croyles]

Well if Germany has nothing to hide they shouldn't mind being spied on.

Is this actually a serious comment or are you just completely taking the piss?

 

[grumpy]

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ausländische_Militärbasen_in_Deutschland
Right, only 56,000.

What's most repulsive to me about all of this is the American public. Just completely apathetic, it's sad. When was the last time you had millions on the street? Your country is involved in so many scandals and crimes, yet the public never answers. What would need to happen?

Americans are a funny bunch.
Their government violates their constitutional rights time and time again, and is involved in military and financial scandals worldwide and the public response is a resounding "meh".

But if some rich, unfunny, late night show host temporarily loses his job you know there are going to be transcontinental demonstrations.

 

[ThisWreckage]

Well if Germany has nothing to hide they shouldn't mind being spied on.

I hope for your sake that this comment was sarcasm. If not, it was monumentally stupid. It's amazing the loops people will jump through in order to justify spying. It's also pretty transparent who is an American and who isn't within this thread.

 

[AmFreak]

Is this actually a serious comment or are you just completely taking the piss?

He probably has no idea what he is talking about like all the dumb, high horse "lol at all the naive people. Countries/NSA spy - who would have thought" comments you can read all over the internet.

 

[Hermii]

Honestly I hope to god european intelligence agencies are spying the hell out of the US.

 

[nib95]

Americans are a funny bunch.
Their government violates their constitutional rights time and time again, and is involved in military and financial scandals worldwide and the public response is a resounding "meh".

But if some rich, unfunny, late night show host temporarily loses his job you know there are going to be transcontinental demonstrations.

Firstly, the media has too much sway in the US. Secondly, they need to drop the attraction to patriotism, it's extremely damaging and self defeating. Thirdly, people need to stop living in fear and suspicion. That's what spurs this defence and/or desire of so many things, including guns, loss of rights and privileges, morality and so much more. Cowardice in many ways. Lastly, greed. Greed and materialism are too intrinsic to the American way of life, and it's a large part of why so many can so easily turn a blind eye as long as fellow Americans are better off because of it. Fuck you, I've got mine.

Obviously many or all of the things mentioned above are issues that plague many/most countries, but I think the stakes and dangers are much higher when the US is involved, given how it is the world's current super power and acts like a hypocritical world police.

 

[Acorn]

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ausländische_Militärbasen_in_Deutschland
Right, only 56,000.

What's most repulsive to me about all of this is the American public. Just completely apathetic, it's sad. When was the last time you had millions on the street? Your country is involved in so many scandals and crimes, yet the public never answers. What would need to happen?

You can say the same about most other western countries to be honest. Especially with the state of post crash affairs.

 

[Croyles]

Got to prevent that 4th Reich from ever happening.

The thread title is disingenuous when it comes to the size. There aren't even a half billion phones in Germany. You can't say the same phone is hacked twice and list that as two phones.

Actually, what has become obvious is that the U.S. is the one turning into the 4th Reich.

 

[jimi_dini]

The thread title is disingenuous when it comes to the size. There aren't even a half billion phones in Germany.

The article states "phone calls", not phones. Maybe a mod should fix that.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

The article states "phone calls", not phones. Maybe a mod should fix that.

Grumble

Actually, what has become obvious is that the U.S. is the one turning into the 4th Reich.

The US is turning into an Imperial German state?

 

[Acorn]

Grumble



The US is turning into an Imperial German state?

Some people wrongly believe the first reich was the romans, the second the british and the third nazis.

Edit- I guess taking the empire meaning too literally, when it actually applies only to german empires.

 

[la_briola]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=609426

kind of relevant.

 

[soul creator]