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[StealthGoblin]

84% of RBS is owned by the UK taxpayer, in a scenario where I'm trying to find the metrics to agree Scotland taking on some of the national debt burden, I would apply those same metrics to the shares of RBS -- meaning that the new Scottish government is forced to take on (buy) a proportion of shares directly from the rest of the Union. The UK government keeps the remaining shares until such time as it is able to sell them - essentially reducing the ownership to zero, eventually... or perhaps keeping them as to maintain a stake when the bank returns to profitability.

I'd just like to point out that my feelings about this have gotten stronger since the recent EU financial union treaty. If a theoretically independent Scotland were to sign that treaty or a different treaty that would hit the banks they have head-quartered within their borders. . .that would mean that UK taxpayers would have their investment taxed with bugger all say in the matter. The recent UK veto was an attempt to safeguard the City of London's financial services, but I'm not sure we'd be able to stop an independent Scotland agreeing to giving some of our investments potential profits away to the EU.

I might have grabbed the wrong end of the stick. I'm trying to balance two theoreticals.

 

[TCRS]

lol omg haha. On Monday I was really impressed by Ed Milliband's 15 min speech, I thought he's finally being a worthy opposition leader. Two days later he got totally thrashed at PMQs. Cameron is such a bully, especially his line about "it's not like we're brothers or anything" was just evil haha.

 

[avaya]

I'd just like to point out that my feelings about this have gotten stronger since the recent EU financial union treaty. If a theoretically independent Scotland were to sign that treaty or a different treaty that would hit the banks they have head-quartered within their borders. . .that would mean that UK taxpayers would have their investment taxed with bugger all say in the matter. The recent UK veto was an attempt to safeguard the City of London's financial services, but I'm not sure we'd be able to stop an independent Scotland agreeing to giving some of our investments potential profits away to the EU.

I might have grabbed the wrong end of the stick. I'm trying to balance two theoreticals.

The veto does not protect the UK from EU FinReg. There was nothing in the treaty that would have affected the City. Nothing. The veto was a dick move.

Financial Regulation in the single market is subject to QMV. No veto allowed. All he has done is give them more reason to fuck the UK over.

 

[Clay Davis]

Aha happened with the gilt sale earlier? Talk is it went poorly in comparison to the Italian bind sale. I thought we seen as a haven in the troubling times?

 

[StealthGoblin]

lol omg haha. On Monday I was really impressed by Ed Milliband's 15 min speech, I thought he's finally being a worthy opposition leader. Two days later he got totally thrashed at PMQs. Cameron is such a bully, especially his line about "it's not like we're brothers or anything" was just evil haha.

TBH I just wish they'd stop cunting around wasting time with political point scoring. The countries in a mess. Crack on with it ladies and gents.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

That's never going to happen with Ed Miliband as Labour leader. He lives breathes and eats party politics.

Like with that absurd clarkson storm in a teacup the other week, the official labour line was "clarkson is camerons friend, cameron should apologise and distance himself" or some such garbage.

It's the entire Brown inner circle - ed m/balls/cooper etc. They're absurdly tribal and not very good.

The only way I'd ever vote for Labour again is if they got rid of the brown rabble entirely.

 

[StealthGoblin]

That's never going to happen with Ed Miliband as Labour leader. He lives breathes and eats party politics.

Like with that absurd clarkson storm in a teacup the other week, the official labour line was "clarkson is camerons friend, cameron should apologise and distance himself" or some such garbage.

It's the entire Brown inner circle - ed m/balls/cooper etc. They're absurdly tribal and not very good.

The only way I'd ever vote for Labour again is if they got rid of the brown rabble entirely.

It'll be interesting to see who their next leader is. Labour doesn't really have any strong, publicly known contenders.

 

[War Peaceman]

The UK needs state level government. Here are the states:

- London (capital: Westminster)
- South East (capital: I don't know, Cambridge or something)
- Cornwall (Truro)
- South West (Bristol)
- South Wales (Cardiff)
- North Wales (Bangor)
- West Midlands (Birmingham)
- East Midlands (Nottingham)
- Yorkshire (York)
- North West (Warrington)
- Cumbria (Carlisle)
- North East (Newcastle)
- Northern Ireland (Belfast)
- South/Central Scotland (Edinburgh)
- Highlands/Islands (Inverness)

boom

Cambridge isn't in the fucking South-East!

 

[defel]

Cambridge isn't in the fucking South-East!

How about High Wycombe?

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

It'll be interesting to see who their next leader is. Labour doesn't really have any strong, publicly known contenders.

I think the only people who could do the job, are well known and haven't been irreparably tarnished by blair era antics are Alan Johnson, David Miliband and Alastair Darling.

Much as I respect him I couldn't imagine Darling as PM. Miliband would have been good last year, but taking over from his own brother would maroon him in party politics - a possibility for the future though.

Alan Johnson is the only guy I can see taking labour to government again in the near future. But he doesn't seem to want the job.

 

[Meadows]

Cambridge isn't in the fucking South-East!

Fine, Slough. Happy?

 

[Clay Davis]

yep, poor sale of our gilts.

LONDON (Dow Jones)--The U.K. Debt Management Office received poor demand at a sale of 5-year bonds Thursday as investors baulked at the low yield on offer.

The GBP4 billion re-opening of the 1.75% January 2017 gilt received a disappointing bid-to-cover ratio--a gauge of demand--of 1.27 times, the U.K. DMO said in a statement.

The yield tail, or the difference between the highest accepted yield and the average yield, came in at 1.8 basis points indicating weak bidding interest.

The gilts were sold at an average price of 103.09 and an average yield of 1.125%.

-By Nick Cawley, Dow Jones Newswires; 44-20-7842-9280; nick.cawley@dowjones.com

--Low Yields And Thin Volume Keep Investors On The Sidelines

--Issue To Be Re-opened Again In Early January

--Gilt Reverse Auctions On Hold Over The Holiday Season

(Adds commentary and additional information)

LONDON (Dow Jones)--The U.K. debt office received poor demand at a sale of five-year bonds Thursday as investors balked at the low yield on offer, especially with the deal due to be reopened in early January. Extremely thin market conditions also kept investors on the sidelines.

"There was no compelling reason to get involved in today's auction," noted one gilt trader. "The issue is being reopened again on Jan. 4, so there was no need to bid aggressively for paper ahead of the year-end."

The GBP4 billion reopening of the 1.75% January 2017 gilt received a disappointing bid-to-cover ratio--a gauge of demand--of 1.27 times, the U.K. office said.

The yield tail, or the difference between the highest accepted yield and the average yield, came in at 1.8 basis points, indicating weak bidding interest. The gilts fetched an average price of 103.09 and an average yield of 1.125%.

Gilts have found favor in recent weeks as the deepening euro zone debt crisis has boosted demand for assets perceived to be safe.

The 10-year benchmark gilt hit a record low yield of 2.05% pre-auction Thursday before drifting back to 2.10%.

The dealer also noted that Wednesday's reverse gilt auction by the Bank of England was the last operation until early January 2012, removing one source of constant demand.

The central bank has been buying GBP5.1 billion of multi-maturity gilts per week since it expanded its quantitative easing program in early October to stimulate the economy. Data out Thursday showed U.K. retail sales falling in November more than expected as retailers continue to suffer from the economic slowdown and fragile consumer confidence.

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20111215-704942.html

 

[Meadows]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16207748

smh

 

[kitch9]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16207748

smh

Someone should remind the desperate fucktard that we're not part of the Euro, and can print more money if the worst comes to the worst.

 

[Walshicus]

Someone should remind the desperate fucktard that we're not part of the Euro, and can print more money if the worst comes to the worst.

Remind him all you want, he's right.

 

[Clay Davis]

Someone should remind the desperate fucktard that we're not part of the Euro, and can print more money if the worst comes to the worst.

do you have any grasp of economics? you cant just continue to print money to get yourself out of financial problems.

and hes right. we're royally screwed. the veto just brought it forward by a few months. our gilts arent selling as well as we need (worse than italy, whose in much worse shape that we are), our economy is getting worse by the day, unemployment is rising at its fastest rate for years, private sector employment is slowing, wage rises are slowing, cost of living is rising faster than ever, debt is getting out of hand, less money going to gov thanks to fewer people working.

we're boned. anyone who claims we arent isn't paying attention or is living in the clouds with their head up their ass.

 

[kitch9]

do you have any grasp of economics? you cant just continue to print money to get yourself out of financial problems.

and hes right. we're royally screwed. the veto just brought it forward by a few months. our gilts arent selling as well as we need (worse than italy, whose in much worse shape that we are), our economy is getting worse by the day, unemployment is rising at its fastest rate for years, private sector employment is slowing, wage rises are slowing, cost of living is rising faster than ever, debt is getting out of hand, less money going to gov thanks to fewer people working.

we're boned. anyone who claims we arent isn't paying attention or is living in the clouds with their head up their ass.

Do you have a grip of English? If so re read my post... We generally need to avoid printing money, but if we need to we can inflate the currency to ensure debts are paid. But yes, for our nation to avoid the negative effects of inflation we should save it as a last resort.

With regards the rest of your post, I gather this is your first recession hence the head slapping flap you appear to be in.

My advice is to remember what this is all about, so when you meet someone else going through their first recession in 10 years time when bread is 5 quid a loaf you'll be able to tell them to chill and stop freaking out about every shitty useless treaty your country hasn't signed too.

By the way other countries are having big doubts about the treaty too, it looks like the government are going to come out of this looking pretty good.

http://www.bized.co.uk/dataserv/chron/kf80.htm

Have a read of that to get an idea of how shitty things can really get and realise this is nothing. We've even had to go to the IMF for a loan in the 70's not Labours finest hour....

 

[zomgbbqftw]

do you have any grasp of economics? you cant just continue to print money to get yourself out of financial problems.

and hes right. we're royally screwed. the veto just brought it forward by a few months. our gilts arent selling as well as we need (worse than italy, whose in much worse shape that we are), our economy is getting worse by the day, unemployment is rising at its fastest rate for years, private sector employment is slowing, wage rises are slowing, cost of living is rising faster than ever, debt is getting out of hand, less money going to gov thanks to fewer people working.

we're boned. anyone who claims we arent isn't paying attention or is living in the clouds with their head up their ass.

These two statements don't add up. To accuse someone of not knowing anything about economics and then embarrassing oneself by saying Gilts are doing worse than Italy is very silly at best.

The "failed" auction you are talking about still got the 5y debt away at 1.125% which is pretty much as low as yields will get. Hence the low cover. You must also remember that investors don't see any reason to bid when the deal is going to be reopened after Christmas (as the article you quoted mentioned!) and the yields on offer from the Treasury are pretty dismal (well below the rate of inflation).

I don't know where you got the idea that Gilts are doing worse than Italian BTPs but here are the spot rates on the secondary markets:

Italy 2y: 5.54%
UK 2y: 0.36%

Italy 5y: 6.38%
UK 5y: 1.118%

Italy 10y: 6.57%
UK 10y: 2.10%

I know which country I would rather be...

 

[pootle]

TBH I just wish they'd stop cunting around wasting time with political point scoring. The countries in a mess. Crack on with it ladies and gents.

I think we can all agree with this sentiment. No matter what any of our differences in political views may be there seems to be a shared frustration with our current crop of rather pathetic politicians.

Still, could be worse, eh? Poor ameri-gaf has it far worse than we do.

 

[kitch9]

http://news.sky.com/home/business/article/16130705


Aaannnndddd, negotiations are back on, this time with two other countries not liking the initial proposal and the UK in a MUCH better position.

Labour are going to come out of this, to be frank, looking like complete and utter retards.

 

[radioheadrule83]

http://news.sky.com/home/business/article/16130705


Aaannnndddd, negotiations are back on, this time with two other countries not liking the initial proposal and the UK in a MUCH better position.

Labour are going to come out of this, to be frank, looking like complete and utter retards.

Only to Tories. What's retarded about them saying they'd have negotiated harder to get it right first time?

 

[Salazar]

Superb LRB article on the current, contorted state of feminism in Britain.

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v33/n24/jenny-turner/as-many-pairs-of-shoes-as-she-likes

 

[Namejj]

What kind of role are we playing in the discussions? The Sky link sound like full on negotiation again, but the Financial Times reported it as the UK as having 'observer status', as well as the BBC. From those articles I thought we would be there to see if they were trying to use EU institutions and object if they were, but not actively participate.

I guess behind the scenes at least there must be constant talks going on though...

 

[Rourkey]

Only to Tories. What's retarded about them saying they'd have negotiated harder to get it right first time?

They didn't want to negotiate did they? Ed Milliband is looking ridiculous because he still wont say if he would have agreed or not.

We're not talking about how political people see Ed & Co but the man in the street see's labour saying how bad everything the coalition is doing is but not saying a single thing they would do instead, just airy fairy things like "negotiate better" or "slower cuts" until they start offering a proper alternative the faster they will lose credibility to the average voter, who only picks up on the headlines.

If other countries start pulling out or if Germany starts offering concessions DC is going to be completly vindicated and people will be pleased to have a PM who is willing to stand up to the EU for the countries interest just like the French and Germans do.

 

[avaya]

Someone should remind the desperate fucktard that we're not part of the Euro, and can print more money if the worst comes to the worst.

The thing is he is right. UK still having triple AAA status is a joke. In fact anyone having that status once the US got downgraded is a joke.

 

[Pie and Beans]

We're not talking about how political people see Ed & Co but the man in the street see's labour saying how bad everything the coalition is doing is but not saying a single thing they would do instead, just airy fairy things like "negotiate better" or "slower cuts" until they start offering a proper alternative the faster they will lose credibility to the average voter, who only picks up on the headlines.

Not sure what blue planet you were orbiting during Labours last tenure, but Big Dave made far more of a tit of himself by strongly disagreeing with everything Labour did, even going so far as to make a wanker out of himself on live TV when a BBC interviewer confronted him on his position of "less regulations for banks". He turned bright red on screen. It was glorious.

Johnny public clearly doesnt give a shit. And there really is nothing embarrassing about saying you would have strived harder to get it right the first time in talks rather than playing hard to get and drawing it out all while the crisis facing Europe looks worse and worse each day.

 

[Rourkey]

The thing is he is right. UK still having triple AAA status is a joke. In fact anyone having that status once the US got downgraded is a joke.

The US got downgraded because of how far polarised the democrats and republicans and the fact one side controls one side of the government and the other the other. The UK hasnt been downgraded yet because of the force of conviction shown by the colation. France will be downgraded because it yet seems able to face up to the troubled waters it's in and its exposure to the PIIGS.

 

[Chinner]

The thing is he is right. UK still having triple AAA status is a joke. In fact anyone having that status once the US got downgraded is a joke.

he hates the uk! get him!

 

[kitch9]

Only to Tories. What's retarded about them saying they'd have negotiated harder to get it right first time?

"Negotiated harder"

I'm an ex car salesman, and car showroom manager. Let me tell you having the nuts to walk away from a deal in most cases will always net you a better offer. The only time it doesn't is when negotiating parties are too far apart with what they want and there's no deal to be done.

We always used to let the punters who'd walked away from a deal get as far as the car park before we'd call them back to give them what they wanted. That way we knew we'd pushed them as far as they would go.

We always made the most profit from the mugs who accepted the first deal we offered them. Labour have been these mugs when it comes to the EU.

 

[Meadows]

"Negotiated harder"

I'm an ex car salesman, and car showroom manager. Let me tell you having the nuts to walk away from a deal in most cases will always net you a better offer. The only time it doesn't is when negotiating parties are too far apart with what they want and there's no deal to be done.

We always used to let the punters who'd walked away from a deal get as far as the car park before we'd call them back to give them what they wanted. That way we knew we'd pushed them as far as they would go.

We always made the most profit from the mugs who accepted the first deal we offered them. Labour have been these mugs when it comes to the EU.

oh dear

 

[daviyoung]

We always used to let the punters who'd walked away from a deal get as far as the car park before we'd call them back to give them what they wanted.

Haha. That's some image.

 

[kitch9]

Haha. That's some image.

Apart from the double entendre, the salesmen used to hate doing it, but the managers made them.

But yeah if you are negotiating a deal, you have to be prepared to walk away if there's no deal to be done and don't bring emotion into it and that's the case with any negotiations in any walk of life.

Try it the next time you buy a car, you might be surprised with what you get offered.

oh dear

Oh dear all you like, but I've spent many hours in a training room being taught how to negotiate and get one over the customer to maximise profit and what Cameron did was straight out of the handbook.... He's been called back from the "car park" and he will be in much stronger position as the rest of the EU leaders know he's been pushed as far as he's willing to go. It also appears he's no longer on his own...... Fancy that.

 

[Meadows]

kitch9 is an authority on the EU diplomatic process because he used to sell used cars. I've heard it all.

 

[Empty]

let's just scrap general elections and have the top brass from each party battle it out on the apprentice. only then will we know who is best suited to run the country.

 

[Meadows]

Nick Clegg would go out in the third week for not getting involved.

 

[daviyoung]

Nick Clegg would go out in the third week for not getting involved.

Joke goon character, he'd stay until the last few weeks for sure.

Not sure Lord Shoogs is the best man to vet the candidates though.

 

[kitch9]

kitch9 is an authority on the EU diplomatic process because he used to sell used cars. I've heard it all.

Nope, but I know good negotiation skills when I see it.....

But carry on dreaming I've said more than that if you wish.

 

[Sage00]

"Negotiated harder"

I'm an ex car salesman, and car showroom manager. Let me tell you having the nuts to walk away from a deal in most cases will always net you a better offer. The only time it doesn't is when negotiating parties are too far apart with what they want and there's no deal to be done.

We always used to let the punters who'd walked away from a deal get as far as the car park before we'd call them back to give them what they wanted. That way we knew we'd pushed them as far as they would go.

We always made the most profit from the mugs who accepted the first deal we offered them. Labour have been these mugs when it comes to the EU.

Hahahaha

 

[milanbaros]

The thing is he is right. UK still having triple AAA status is a joke. In fact anyone having that status once the US got downgraded is a joke.

You do know that was not for economic reasons but polical? The fear that the two US parties would play chicken and miss a payment.

Also, to the fucktard who said our gov bonds are in a worse shape than Italy's..my god. Do you even think before typing? With rates that low i.e. sub 2%, they are almost paying the government to use their money.

 

[phisheep]

kitch9 is an authority on the EU diplomatic process because he used to sell used cars. I've heard it all.

Pretty much. Negotiating is negotiating - you gotta have something to negotiate with, either to give or to take away, and if nobody believes you're going to take it away you don't have a position to negotiate from. Cameron has given himself a negotiating position, and that's just fine.

 

[kitch9]

Hahahaha

Question, how often do you ask for a discount when buying anything? I'm not talking at Tesco's, or large chains where nobody has the authority to make a decision, but rather smaller shops or places such as electronics stores?

If the answer to the question is never or no then you are not really in a position to comment on negotiating.

Do you accept when something is marked up as a sale item that its at its best price, so don't even bother asking the store if they can do better? When you last bought a car did you buy it there and then without much discount, or did you walk away and wait until they rang you the next day offering an even better deal?

You'd be amazed it what you can get once you lose the embarrassment of asking the question of discount, and gain the hard nose of walking away if you don't quite get what you were expecting.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

The thing is he is right. UK still having triple AAA status is a joke. In fact anyone having that status once the US got downgraded is a joke.

Indeed. If a US T-Bill isn't considered a super safe investment then nothing is really. In this case AA+ is the new AAA. I fully expect France to get downgraded by two notches and the rest of the EU27 AAA nations (including us) to get downgraded by a single notch at a later date. The banking liabilities are just too large to warrant a AAA rating all over Europe.

Pretty much. Negotiating is negotiating - you gotta have something to negotiate with, either to give or to take away, and if nobody believes you're going to take it away you don't have a position to negotiate from. Cameron has given himself a negotiating position, and that's just fine.

Question, how often do you ask for a discount when buying anything? I'm not talking at Tesco's, or large chains where nobody has the authority to make a decision, but rather smaller shops or places such as electronics stores?

If the answer to the question is never or no then you are not really in a position to comment on negotiating.

Do you accept when something is marked up as a sale item that its at its best price, so don't even bother asking the store if they can do better? When you last bought a car did you buy it there and then without much discount, or did you walk away and wait until they rang you the next day offering an even better deal?

You'd be amazed it what you can get once you lose the embarrassment of asking the question of discount, and gain the hard nose of walking away if you don't quite get what you were expecting.

Indeed. Negotiating is all about leverage and who has more. In this case Britain has the most leverage. We have money and the ability to open up the Treaty of Lisbon, they want both. They have specific powers we want and until we get those, no money and no treaty changes. I haven't seen it mentioned here but part of the "deal" last week was €200bn worth of extra IMF funding for which Britain had just been pencilled in for €30-50bn without anyone from the British delegation being informed. The EU just assumed we would pay, now they won't. Not until we get significant concessions from them.

I said it earlier, but the people that matter (like the German finance minister) have said there is plenty of time to get a deal done with Britain and for us to get what we want. Who cares what a French MEP fucktard says, or Barrosso (who has taken sides, a very unedifying thing to see) for that matter. The people that matter want us to be involved, they want us to say yes to opening up the treaty, and now they know Dave won't do it unless there is a significant transfer of sovereignty back from Brussels to Westminster (and avoiding a referendum).

Also, great Guardian headline "French ministers tell UK: we're bigger than you".

 

[ZombieFred]

Bah, those french bastards are all talk and no action. No one's going to buddy with them, especially the amount of money they will loose if the euro was to fail in Italy and other nations they've sinked their money into, and let's not forget how unstable their current goverment is when the elections are just around the corner. It's nice to actually have a country with a pair of balls for once ot say no and not bend over for anything, like the Blair/Brown party did.

 

[Meadows]

Just out of interest, why would anyone buy bonds at sub-2%? Surely you could just put it in a bank and get a better rate than that.

 

[phisheep]

Just out of interest, why would anyone buy bonds at sub-2%? Surely you could just put it in a bank and get a better rate than that.

Risk. That's why.

Who knows what banks are going to default? It's one thing being quoted a rate, it's another thing actually getting paid it over the full term.

 

[Meadows]

Risk. That's why.

Who knows what banks are going to default? It's one thing being quoted a rate, it's another thing actually getting paid it over the full term.

Ahh, good point.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Just out of interest, why would anyone buy bonds at sub-2%? Surely you could just put it in a bank and get a better rate than that.

You are thinking too much like a personal investor with maybe a million to invest. Think about how to invest a $50bn pension fund. Banks aren't going to take that on, one would have to invest it in equity markets or bond markets such as UK Gilts. Now, when an investment banker is dealing with something like a pension fund (i.e. super low risk) they need to look at investments which guarantee the safety of their client's money but still get some kind of return.

Gilts, Bunds and Treasuries are pretty much the world's safe haven investments at a time like this so there is a rush from pension funds and sovereign wealth funds to get into such markets and prices shoot up (Gilts are up on average by around 8% this year) and yields go down. A good sign for Britain is when investors start bailing out of Gilts and into equity markets, that means people have got confidence that the economy is going to be back in good shape. Of course if investors bail out of Gilts and into another super safe investment like Bunds because they feel the UK is not good for its money then that is bad and we face a situation similar to France.

 

[Nicktendo86]

It is obvious that the French have been rattled, they were patting themselves on the back for getting the deal they wanted but are now starting to panic.

Oh, and the 200bn IMF fund is looking shaky. Talk of the UK being isolated not looks frankly silly.

http://blogs.ft.com/the-world/2011/12/so-about-that-imf-e200bn/#axzz1ghRs1ymY

 

[avaya]

You do know that was not for economic reasons but polical? The fear that the two US parties would play chicken and miss a payment.

No matter what level the whackjob Republican's think in the end the US would never be allowed to miss a payment. S&P is being ridiculous.

Indeed. If a US T-Bill isn't considered a super safe investment then nothing is really. In this case AA+ is the new AAA. I fully expect France to get downgraded by two notches and the rest of the EU27 AAA nations (including us) to get downgraded by a single notch at a later date. The banking liabilities are just too large to warrant a AAA rating all over Europe.

Agree, in the end though it doesn't matter what the ratings agency's say, the spread you are incurring is the true barometer of how you are viewed. US downgrade had no affect. France and the UK can still be AAA, their spreads? Not in the slightest AAA historical average.

I don't think you will see the Eurozone members give way on QMV on Financial Services Regulation though. That's a hard red line. So I don't think the veto is going to achieve anything but further antagonise the others. The German's don't want us to leave but they have made it very clear that there will be no exemptions to the single market rules for the sector that is most at fault for triggering the situation we are all in.

Cameron's body language post summit was obvious, he knew he's possibly made a rather big mistake. The US wasn't exactly supportive. He's further hampered by the fact that he has to placate the batshit crazy's in his own party.

Now if Dave uses this to dismantle CAP/CFP....this gets interesting.

In any case I wonder how long it's going to take everyone to realise that we are in a situation where the invisible hand has...disappeared because the fallacy of composition rules, with private sector de-leveraging after the explosion of the asset-price bubble. That is to say, crowding out does not exist in this environment, if governments don't step up to the plate then we won't have any borrowers not because lenders are unwilling to lend, borrowers are unwilling to borrow because they have too much debt.

It is going to take a long time. Richard Koo is finally doing the rounds in the media but he's been saying the same shit since November 2008. Shame the market is purely irrational, the current herd behaviour towards austerity is both amusing and ultimately depressing.

 

[Meadows]

I hate how Miliband is trying to claim the Feltham by-election as a massive win for the Labour party as a whole: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16187493

1) It's a local election, quality of candidates, material etc is a really important factor in these elections
2) The weather was crap
3) The turnout was very low
4) It's a Labour safe-seat