That's just opening the door for satirists to regard it as a lame duck cabinet.
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UK PoliGAF thread of tell me about the rabbits again, Dave.
- Thread starter Chinner
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That's just opening the door for satirists to regard it as a lame duck cabinet.
StealthGoblin
Banned
CHEEZMO;33537320 said:
I don't think there is any harm in saying what he has said. Christianity is the state religion of England.
I also think that holding up the religious principles (some of them) is something that a lot of people can relate to without having to explain it to everyone. A lot of these principles are shared by most of the religions worldwide. Charity, caring, respect for each other etc.
I'm an Atheist and I don't see an issue with it. He's not saying everyone should be Christian but he is effectively saying that there is a lot that we can learn from it.
StealthGoblin
Banned
You can of course learn those things from elsewhere. My point was that religion is an easily identifiable example of where those things can be observed. My upbringing was extremely religious. Catholic primary school, church every Sunday, Altar server, Catholic secondary school, Catholic 6th form college.
From an early age all of those things were not only spoken about, but actually demonstrated. I'm an Atheist but my outlook on life has definitely been shaped by religion.
frankie_baby
Member
CHEEZMO;33537320 said:
It's a load of bollox and the sooner politicians stop trying to equate being nice to people with Christianity the better, we are a mostly secular and mostly atheist nation and talk like this is just patronising and probably counter productive
Uhm in the 2011 census, over 70% of the UK reported themselves to be Christian.
2001. Those numbers will go down.
StealthGoblin
Banned
Nowhere has he said that being nice to people is an exclusive trait of Christianity.
The fact of the matter is that Britain was built around Christian principles and whether people like it or not, those principles have helped to put us in the position we are in. Even the most staunch atheist would accept that.
There has been a moral decline. Our way of life was built around Christian/religious principles and as these have eroded in society we have seen an increase in social unrest, fiscal stupidity and the breakdown of the family. Whether you think those breakdowns are a good thing or not, they mean that the countries resources are being used to try to correct them.
This is why there is a greater emphasis on personal, social and health education (PSHE) in schools now. We have reached a point where parents are much more likely to be irresponsible and pass those irresponsible traits onto their children. This occurs in faith schools and non-faith schools. However, most of what is taught in PSHE is already covered in classroom RE and communal worship in faith schools.
Is Cameron saying everyone should be Christian? No. He (and I) are saying that it doesn't hurt to look at religion as a source of inspiration on certain moral matters.
PJV3
Member
The fact Cameron believes there has been a 'moral collapse' is hilarious, unless of course he's referring to the 30 year rise of right-wing me,me,me economics. They need to start teaching history that extends beyond kings and queens, society today is in many ways so much better than it has ever been.
May bad, but it's around 55% ish now in the latest census.
The number of practising Christians will be in the single digits. Most in the UK will be hedging their bets, so doubting any god exists, but occasionally having a word with him/her/it just in case.
angelkimne
Member
In addition, the Social Attitudes Survey of 2009 reported (for the first time) a non-religious majority. Woo.
Gotta hope the census reports the same - it would be massive news.
Edit: Whoops.
StealthGoblin
Banned
In some areas it is much better. In other areas it has steadily gone downhill.
What I think we have now is:
- Lower standard of parenting
- A material driven youth culture
- People not being responsible enough. (Rising rate of abortions etc)
- Fiscal irresponsibility
- Issues with morality surrounding relationships (by which I mean people getting married without actually being truly committed and bailing out far too often)
- Lack of respect for your elders/people in positions of authority.
- etc
Those are the big negatives. There are many positives.
What I think we need to do is better instil morality into our youth and not let them think that its alright to go out looting, getting divorced, having abortions because you behaved like a moron etc. As the number of religious people decreases in this country, we need to fill the moral void by actually teaching morality in a much deeper and broader way as early as possible. Parents need to step their game up too.
It's the implication.
Bullshit. Modern England has been built around casual don't-give-a-shit-about-godism. Almost every great achievement we've made has been to push the domain of the gods-men further back.
Slavery, child labour, state enforced class structures, subjugation of women, racism. All these shining examples of morality are part and parcel of our recent past. The suggestion that we're in "moral decline" is insultingly infantile.
As above, this is just looking at the past with rose tinted goggles.
You don't think this is a consequence of the fuck-awful economic policies implemented since the second world war which have done little but increased by stealth the power and wealth of the new aristocracy to the relative detriment of those who produce, while cheapening the value of labour?
Hah!
And I am saying it'll be a cold cold day when I look to a bunch of pædophile tax dodging scammers for moral inspiration, no matter how pleasant their cucumber sandwiches with the crusts cut off are.
Dark Machine
Member
HEY HEY!...Leave cucumber sandwiches alone please. I happen to like them very much. They are very pleasant to eat.
StealthGoblin
Banned
Not really. It only becomes that if you are looking to find fault in whatever he says on the matter. He went on to speak about other faiths and people without faith.
That may be so, but before we pushed the God/s back, there was a bedrock on which to build ourselves to where we are now. There was a time where people didn't sleep around and if you got a woman pregnant, the honourable thing to do was marry her and make it work. There was a time where bankers gave money away to the needy out of choice. There was a time where it was shameful to not be actively looking for work etc. We have to remember that it isn't only the distancing from religious texts and philosophies that can be damaging. . it is also the breakdown or lack of community to which people feel responsible.
Like I've said above in a previous post, we have made improvements in some areas but are failing hard in other areas. My comments about moral decline are based around the breaking down of families, personal irresponsibility (I'm sure I'm not the only one who is not happy about picking up the bill for abortions because people have been twats), fiscal irresponsibility etc. While we have drastically improved in some areas, we are drastically going down in other areas and I think, over time, if these are not addressed that we'll have a much more fractured society with a lot more expensive problems to deal with.
It is partly to do with that but it is also to do with the breaking down of the nuclear family and the morals that went with them. Religious convictions helped instil those morals and in our increasingly secular society I don't see why we shouldn't promote those morals. . because they aren't exclusive to religion. We can take the best bits of religion and still watch it die.
I don't know what you are laughing about here. As a teacher, I actually teach PSHE and Classroom RE. There are two attainment targets in Classroom RE. AT1 focuses on learning about religion and AT2 focuses on learning from religion. AT2 actually covers almost everything that is taught in PSHE. Its not all about indoctrination. Take the parable of the good Samaritan for example. The AT1 learning objective could be to focus on the meaning of the story and why it was/is significant for its place in Hebrew society at the time. The AT2 learning objective could get the children to understand that helping someone in need should not depend on their skin colour, where they are from etc. As you can see, AT2 covers things that are explicitly taught in PSHE and circle time.
Because they are all pædophile tax dodging scammers. As much as I think those things are intolerable, it is preposterous to tar all of them with the same brush. My points about learning from religion aren't exclusively about Christianity either. We can learn from all religions just like we can learn from wise atheists. If something is considered to be an 'aeterna veritas' then we should promote it, regardless of its origins. Getting people to absorb these morals from the study or observation of religion is a lot more managable for the masses than getting them to study Nietzsche, Aquinas, Stuart-Mill, Hitchens etc.
frankie_baby
Member
I wouldn't trust census numbers as far as I could throw them, 2 major things wrong with them, firstly there is definately a significant proportion of people that will claim church of England as their religion as that's what they were brought up to say but if you actually ask them if they believe you'll get a different answer, secondly census forms are usually filled out by older householders (eg. Parents) who can easily just tick CofE on behalf of everyone in their household meaning huge numbers of atheist kids (and adults still living with their parents) will be wrongly listed as christians
StealthGoblin
Banned
Exactly. My mother fills in all of the forms in our household and she's put all of us down as Catholic, despite my brother and I being Atheist and my father being agnostic. I would imagine that children up until the teens will describe themselves as whatever their parents faith is and then when they reach the age where they question religious beliefs, the number of people who would describe themselves as having faith would dramatically nose-dive.
It was a common thing at secondary school and at my Catholic 6th form college that only around 10% of the pupils would describe themselves as having faith. It was a particularly interesting place because the 6th form college actually had 'science college' status.
BBC: Transport spending 'skewed towards London'
I knew spending on London was more than average but this is ridiculous.
I knew spending on London was more than average but this is ridiculous.
I don't know how much it is costing the council but there have been gas/roadworks going on along the A38 through Droitwich between brum and worcs, they have been at it a couple of months and have only done a few hundred feet so far. You have to wonder how much money it would save the country if road workers weren't so lazy and incompetent.
PJV3
Member
Or maybe that's how long it takes, it could be down to safety issues(gas). mind you i'm no expert on the A38 and they could be playing cards in the local cafe.
May I advise that you reserve comment for a subject you know something about.
Maybe I would be more sympathetic if you ever actually saw the elusive blue-spotted road worker ever doing any actual work rather then stood around chatting or if this wasn't the 3rd damn time they have pulled that side of the road up in 2 years for gas work.
At least with the schools closed soon I wont lose another hour a day in the commute before the expected finish time of stardate 2106.45.
At least with the schools closed soon I wont lose another hour a day in the commute before the expected finish time of stardate 2106.45.
CHEEZMO
Obsidian fan
CHEEZMO
Obsidian fan
I can tell, because you haven't posted in the Snow thread even though I TOOK SOME PICKCHURES FOR YOU!
You don't appreciate me anymore. I'm writing to Jeremy Kyle.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Flying back to London in a few hours (via Hong Kong :/) hope it's not too cold. It's been kind of ok here. Business was good, I think we have secured the investment, we should see it start in 2013 and it should create 30-40,000 jobs in the South West. They didn't want to go to the north because they wanted to be near a top university and Durham is too remote for them. They didn't want to go to Scotland because they are wary of what an independent Scotland means for taxes. So the South West is good because they are near Bristol University and Cardiff University both of which have strong physics, chemistry, engineering and CS departments.
They initially wanted to be in Cambridge but we advised against it because competition for graduates is extremely fierce so the South West makes a lot more sense in that respect. It is also easy to attract everyone who lives on the M4 corridor and the universities along it (including Oxford, and London based ones like Imperial and UCL). We initially pitched them near Sunderland, but they were not impressed so instead of losing the whole deal we modified to our second choice of the South West.
Anyway, on a more personal note, I have been offered a position in Shanghai for the bank, I am really considering taking it. I love it here. China is fucking awesome. My gf has also been offered a position at an international law firm we are associated with as part of the deal. It's so fucking tempting. Meadows, I know you have lived in Taiwan for a significant amount of time, how do you find it? I know Taiwan isn't really the same as China mainland, but Shanghai is very, very metropolitan, it's like most other Asian megacities in that respect. The bank even promised me unfirewalled internet routed via HK and a resettlement grant and a temporary flat for 6 months and Mandarin lessons. The position is for an indefinite period (i.e. permanent) which is pretty scary as I suppose it would really be a one way ticket. I don't mean to go all Live Journal, but I definitely need some good advice on this one... D:
Edit, had to take some stuff out. Deal is not final, so could change and have been, err, advised not to mention some of the more technical stuffs.
Also, song of the trip: Gotye - Somebody that I used to know. Played in every bar, club and pub here. Seriously.
They initially wanted to be in Cambridge but we advised against it because competition for graduates is extremely fierce so the South West makes a lot more sense in that respect. It is also easy to attract everyone who lives on the M4 corridor and the universities along it (including Oxford, and London based ones like Imperial and UCL). We initially pitched them near Sunderland, but they were not impressed so instead of losing the whole deal we modified to our second choice of the South West.
Anyway, on a more personal note, I have been offered a position in Shanghai for the bank, I am really considering taking it. I love it here. China is fucking awesome. My gf has also been offered a position at an international law firm we are associated with as part of the deal. It's so fucking tempting. Meadows, I know you have lived in Taiwan for a significant amount of time, how do you find it? I know Taiwan isn't really the same as China mainland, but Shanghai is very, very metropolitan, it's like most other Asian megacities in that respect. The bank even promised me unfirewalled internet routed via HK and a resettlement grant and a temporary flat for 6 months and Mandarin lessons. The position is for an indefinite period (i.e. permanent) which is pretty scary as I suppose it would really be a one way ticket. I don't mean to go all Live Journal, but I definitely need some good advice on this one... D:
Edit, had to take some stuff out. Deal is not final, so could change and have been, err, advised not to mention some of the more technical stuffs.
Also, song of the trip: Gotye - Somebody that I used to know. Played in every bar, club and pub here. Seriously.
louis89
Member
Manchester Uni? York Uni? Both are internationally recognised as being top class?
I dunno really, Taiwan and China are so different in terms of their job market that my Taiwanese perspective isn't really useful. I had a mate that did a 3 month internship for some CAD firm in Shanghai and he seemed to like it, and it seems like that neck of the woods is probably where the world's power and money is moving to.
One thing to watch out for is the importance of 'face' and 'prestige' which basically means that people act in a really odd way to seem respectable, including buying Scotch Whiskey and Gucci bags. (I find it funny that Scotland thinks they can rely on Scotch exports as a long-term thing, the people in China/Taiwan never drink it, it's an ornament, so people only need one).
Also, you're not white are you? Expect people to be confused as to how you can be British and not be white.
I'm in the Chinese mainland, albeit a smaller City in the north which I'd imagine is somewhat of a different experience to Shanghai, but i could still answer questions if you have them.
For my part, I'd definitely don't have any regrets coming over here, I really like it, though my situation is less permanent than yours.
JonathanEx
Member
Finally, we can make water fowl/human female marriage legal.
J Tourettes
Banned
Fuck yeah!CHEEZMO;33555617 said:
FlyingTeacup
Member
do it. the experience alone would put you on top of the pile. and dat unfirewalled internet!!
radioheadrule83
Banned
I'd go to China, this country has gone to shit.
PJV3
Member
Well we have the Royal flotilla to look forward to next year, so i wouldn't leave just yet.
milanbaros
Member?
Are you being serious? If not I apologise in advance and I've misread your tone. If you are...hahaha, oh my word. Can you please give me the time period this was the case? Where did you read this?
Has it ever occured to you that the majority of divorces are from unhappy marriages? Many women would be forced to stay loyal to their cheating bastards of a husband, until death allowed escape.
The honourable thing is to do what's best for everyone involved, whether that is 'making a marriage work', seperated families, sometimes even abortion.
You are looking at the past through the most warped pair of rose tinted spectacles it is almost laughable.
StealthGoblin
Banned
The overarching point is that if people were less cuntish and didn't jump into marriage too early without being properly committed and ready, we would have less broken families. Sleeping around and getting up the duff is not advisable either. People need to chill the fuck out and be a bit more sensible.
My parents have had rows and fallings out over the years that would probably have destroyed a lot of these flaky relationships but they stuck at it and are all the better for it.
Having children without having the necessary finances in place is also inadvisable.
I also get the feeling that we won't be alone in the EU in refusing to support this package.